Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Trying to figure out if Walthers is lying to me

6807 views
65 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, February 4, 2020 6:58 PM

tstage

Sheldon,

I had issues with R22" curves; larger than R18" but still moderately sharp.  I found that paring the inside corner of the caboose steps with an Xacto knife did improve performance some but still didn't completely eliminate the binding issue.  I seem to recollect from other's responses in the past that - even on larger radii curves - certain Walthers rolling stock still had some binding issues.

More imporant than that the Walthers caboose wasn't a good stand-in for a low cupola NYC caboose.  That was early on in my modeling so I was pretty green in my understanding of prototype cars.

Tom

 

Well, OK, exact prototype accuracy aside since I know nothing about NYC cabeese, we just can't have our cake and eat it too on this issue. If we want all this detail, we need reasonably large curves.

22" inch curves are really sharp from where I come from in this hobby, and yes, I am a self proclaimed radius snob.

The haters are all welcome to tell me how we all don't have 1,000 or now in my case, 1600 sq ft layout rooms.

But going back to the first layout I built myself at age 16, I knew I wanted big, realistic curves, 36" radius for any kind of Class I modeling in HO. I was willing to settle for less "layout" to have bigger curves. I had an L shaped room 24 x 30, with both legs being about 12' wide.

The layout my father built for me had 18" and 22" curves, and my longest equipment was 72' Athearn passenger cars.........

But as soon as I saw the layout at the Severna Park club, I understood the importance of this issue, both operationally and visually.

As for accuracy and "stand ins", that's a topic for a different thread. I know a lot about the railroads I model, B&O, C&O and Western Maryland, and I'm happy to be as accurate as is practical, but I'm just not as "fussy" as my knowledge might require others to be.......

For me it's about the the "overall visual effect"...........my long trains are more important to that than every car being perfectly accurate.........

Sheldon

 

    

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • 1,553 posts
Posted by PRR8259 on Wednesday, February 5, 2020 11:51 AM

I have purchased a Walthers coach in the past (correct for Santa Fe heavyweight coach) AND the lighting kit that Walthers sells for it clearly did NOT fit that car.  One would have to cut interior partitions AND the inside wall at the ends of the car in order to make it fit correctly.

I also complained directly to Walthers to no avail.

John

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Heart of Georgia
  • 5,406 posts
Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, February 5, 2020 11:57 AM

PRR8259

PRR8259

I have purchased a Walthers coach in the past (correct for Santa Fe heavyweight coach) AND the lighting kit that Walthers sells for it clearly did NOT fit that car.  One would have to cut interior partitions AND the inside wall at the ends of the car in order to make it fit correctly.

I also complained directly to Walthers to no avail.

John

 

That's unacceptable.  That has nothing to do with the seller, the dealer, or any buyer who buys a NIB unit.  That is an item that should be recalled by Walthers. (The lighting kit).

Even after 20 years, every one of them they produced or sold should be bought back or fixed for the same issue.  No reason why they can't issue a recall like an auto company.  They should have a record of every item shipped and can reconcile it back, figuring they will need to account for every one of those kits eventually.

- Douglas

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, February 5, 2020 1:47 PM

 YOu are asking a lot if you think they have records. I'll bet those light boards don't even have a serial number. ALl they would have in their records at Walthers is that on such and such a date, they shipped 10 of them to Joe's Hobby Shop. There is zero traceability beyond that, and I really hope it never coems to that, because if you think thsi hobby is expensive now....

It matters with cars because lives are at stake. Airplane parts are even more traceable than automobile parts. Because lives are at stake, and thestakes a higher with a passenger jet. Model trains - not so much. 

Also notice in the product description at Walthers it says "fits MOST cars". Not "Fits all of our passenger cars with absolutely no modifications required"

At worst, they could at least provide a list of which cars it fits directly, which cars it fits with modification, and which cars it won't fit no matter what (although that last is more dependent on modeler skill - give me a circuit board with lights on it, and a car I can open up, and I guarantee I can make it fit, somehow). Kind of like Kadee's lists of which couplers go on which locos and cars. That not being readily available on the product page, I fault Walthers for.

                                     --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Heart of Georgia
  • 5,406 posts
Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, February 5, 2020 3:35 PM

IMO, hobby manufacturers should either build it right, make it right, or at least disclose information they think a reasonable person would need to know.  "Fits most cars" sounds like a CYA for not knowing enough about a product they claim is their's.  How would a customer know which cars it would or would not fit before they buy it...if even Walthers doesn't know?

Maybe some producers have simply hung around too long, aided by a hobby culture that says the customer simply has to be more knowledgeable about a product than even the producer.....or must fix it....or just live with it.

OTOH, it sounds like Kadee knows what they're doing.

 

- Douglas

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, February 5, 2020 4:03 PM

wjstix
BTW does the car say "Chickies Creek" on it, and does it look like it was lettered at the factory rather than a decal added later? If it is "Chickies Creek" then it is Walthers Part # 920-9262 as on the box. If not, it's probably Walthers Part # 920-9242, which is basically the same PRR car but without lighting and without a name (you get a set of decals to add that part of the lettering yourself).

We haven't heard from the OP for a while, would like to hear what they have to say....

Stix
  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, February 5, 2020 4:35 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
But I have to ask? What radius curves are you having interference issues with their rolling stock?

.

I had problems with the Walthers 46 foot "gold line" USRA gondolas on 22" radius curves.

.

The easiest solution would have been to shim the trucks up about 0.030" and use Kadee Overshank 20 Series Couplers, but I liked the low riding look of these freight cars.

.

I removed a lot of the floor to clear it up, and then loads disguised the butchery that happened.

.

You can click on the image for a better view.

.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 543 posts
Posted by Tophias on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 9:15 PM

And this is why I have not yet ever, and probably will not ever, make a purchase off of Ebay

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 9:23 PM

Well, good for you!!!  I'm so happy for you!!  Laugh Bow

Leaves more for me.....Pirate Mischief

Mike

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 543 posts
Posted by Tophias on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 9:46 PM

Laugh if you like, but I'm not happy buying anything from someone/someplace I know nothing about.  Sure, a $5 purchase would be no problem/no risk. But a significant purchase like the OP  made makes me turn to trusted vendors.  Just my $.02

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 9:54 PM

Tophias

And this is why I have not yet ever, and probably will not ever, make a purchase off of Ebay 

You are basing your anti-eBay attitude on 2 posts by a newbie who has not been heard from since? From my reading of those 2 posts, the OP apparently did not bother to contact the eBay seller who may well have had a 30-day return policy. 

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 543 posts
Posted by Tophias on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 10:11 PM

Rich, I'm not anti-EBay per se.  it's just that I don't know anything about whom I'm purchasing from.  I'm sure many/most are upright sellers.  But over the years here I have read several other posts similar to this one where an item purchased was mis represented.  Probably a minority of all transactions, but nevertheless I don't want to have to take a chance that my experience might be with a questionable vendor. As previously said, for a lesser value purchase, sure, no problem.  But for a more meaningful purchase I would just rather go to a known vendor.  Guess I'm just old school. 

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 10:22 PM

Tophias, there is probably no point in debating the eBay experience in this thread, but I will say this as an experienced and totally pleased eBay buyer. I limit my purchases to new items from long time sellers with a 100% feedback rating. In my 19+ years as an eBay member, I have never once been disappointed or cheated. You are likely missing out on some good deals as someone who has "not yet ever, and probably will not ever, make a purchase off eBay".

Rich

 

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: North Aurora, IL
  • 471 posts
Posted by ho modern modeler on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 10:31 PM

The 1060 should work and you may have to trim the tops of the walls near where the circuit board is on the light kit. I only bought the Deluxe Amfleet cars, the other ones I lighted on my own with their kits or my own LED's. I had a similar rift with them on the B&O Domes, even though they made Deluxe versions somehow they failed to make light kits for them and advised me none of the others would work. The Budd Dome kits popped right in.

Mine doesn't move.......it's at the station!!!

 

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 543 posts
Posted by Tophias on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 10:35 PM

Rich, I have respected your input here for many years.  So, I will consider what you have to say now.  Maybe I've been too conservative in my thinking.  I do purchase all sorts of things on line, hobby related and otherwise, but I guess I've just never been comfortable with EBay.  Maybe it's time for me to reconsider?  I appreciate your comments.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 10:52 PM

Thanks for your reply, Tophias. I was looking back at my eBay purchases over the past three years and most of those purchases were from brick and mortar hobby shops with an eBay presence. For no particular reason, other than the fact that the sellers have in stock what I am looking for, I have tended to buy from the same sellers multiple times. If the forum rules permitted, I would list these eBay sellers.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 543 posts
Posted by Tophias on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 11:07 PM

Rich, I guess I am lagging in regard to online purchasing.  I will start to consider EBay.  Is there a quick way to ascertain if the seller is also a brick and mortar vendor?

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 11:23 PM

Tophias

Rich, I guess I am lagging in regard to online purchasing.  I will start to consider EBay.  Is there a quick way to ascertain if the seller is also a brick and mortar vendor? 

Good question. For each auction or Buy It Now listing. there is a Seller Information box on the right side of the listing. If you click on the seller's name, the seller usually has posted a description of his or her business. Those sellers with a brick and mortar presence will almost always point that out.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 543 posts
Posted by Tophias on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 11:44 PM

Thnx Rich, good to know.

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 6:29 AM

Other info about the seller that is easy to check out, by using the info in the box that Rich points to:

Look at the amount of transactions, along with their rating.  

You can click on the seller's highlighted name and see an overall view of the seller, with rating, transactions, feedback, etc., etc.

The key is to READ the complete listing, and all info that the seller provides.

Many offer returns.

Mike.

 

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 543 posts
Posted by Tophias on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 7:03 AM

Thnx Mike, you and Rich have certainly opened my eyes to EBay.  This is what I like most about participating in this forum.  I have been introduced to many concepts, products and ideas here.  EBay is certainly not a new entity, I guess I've just had my head in the sand.

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 7:52 AM

I've been an Ebay customer for about 16 or 17 years and found many things otherwise I would not find.

It is my understanding if an item is not as advertised, then even if the seller doesn't take returns, Ebay will refund you the money.  But contact the seller first.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Westford MA
  • 543 posts
Posted by Tophias on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 8:22 AM

I guess I have really missed the boat all these years!!

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Yorkton, Sk, Cnd
  • 441 posts
Posted by wvg_ca on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 8:57 AM

i have been on ebay since 1998, and am up to just under 800 transaction ratings [not all transactions were given ratings], and i am satisfied with them ...

other than the fact my nearest 'brick and mortar' store is two hours away, lol ..

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 9:01 AM

 I go back probably 22 years now, I started by sellign off all my old Tyco/LL/AHM etc except for a couple of pieces which hold a special sentimental value in the memories of working on the layout with my Dad or trains I ran on the little layout my Grandfather had, as well as bunches of old computer parts. This funded my initial entry to 'modern' scale models, re-entry rather, as I did have a few better quality items I had picked up in the 10 years before then. Never had any issues selling, though as a seller, things have gotten much less satisfying with the changes they've made over the years. 

 I've since built up a large portion of my fleet by being very patient on eBay. There are lots of things that fit my chosen prototype and era that I want - but they key to being successful on eBay is to control that. Most things are NOT that rare, no matter how much the manufacturer plasters "Limited Edition" on their boxes. If the price goes above what you are willign to pay - let it go. Another one will come around. While most of the locos I have were in the $100+ MSRP back 15 years ago, I've gotten them all for no more than $40. 

 And time things - I got a perfectly fine, new in box PCM Reading T1 with sound for less than the original price of the DC only ones, because people started selling off anticipating the new BLI Paragon II release when it came out. And I'll take that to the bank every time I get it out and it just runs, never having needed to be sent back for a failed decoder or a busted smoke unit.

 I do buy more than trains on eBay. As with anything, you need to knwo what you are buying, and it always pays to check the total price plus shipping with other common sites that sell the same items. Check feedbacks as well. Back to trains - there are plenty of places selling detail parts, one looked like a good value, even adding shipping, but I hesitated and checked my usual go-to, Modeltrainstuff - sure enough, MTS was cheaper. Not by a lot, it was like a $5 item, but small bits add up (I'm a cheap PA Dutchman) plus I know what to expect from MTS, and while this seller on eBay had a large amount of all positive feedback, I had never previously dealt with them myself. 

On patience - I've let many many things go I really wanted, because I know what I can get them for, and the bidding quickly rose beyond that. As a seller, that was great - I got $79 for the AHM/Pocher Lincoln Funeral Car, partly because it was still in the orginal box, which had the price tag on it from when my Dad bought it around 1972 - $1.99! I refuse to get caught up in that though as a buyer. So I probably skipped 3 or 4 Proto 2000 Alco S1s. Until I came across one with a starting bid of $25. The listing wasn't misspelled, or have any missing information that someone searching wouldn't easily find it - but no one else bid on it.

Which leads to another tip - when searching, try slight spelling variations. Sometimes sellers, especially if it's just an individual selling off items, won't catch a misspelling in their listing which keeps it out of the most common searches. If buyers don't see the listing, they can't bid on it - which works to your advantage. Doesn't happen too often, but once in a while you will find a gem.

Do not fear the eBay - used properly, you can make out like a bandit. There is no one source for everything, so treat it as yet another palce to look and always compare to get the best value. I've probably made out best on eBay for out of production locos and car kits no one seems to want (got lots of P2K tank car kits - they are quite challenging to build until you learn the tricks, so they sell, the RTR versions go for top dollar). Second best is probably train shows for me. I find train shows actually take a greater knowledge of pricing and value than shopping on eBay, because if you get there early and find a good deal, you need to know if it's a good deal or not because odds are, if you pass and hope to come back later, the item will be sold before you get back. More snap decisions need to be made at train shows than while browsing ebay.

                                   --Randy

  


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    February 2017
  • 189 posts
Posted by Deane Johnson on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 10:09 AM

I expect I place around 100 orders a year.  I did 6 yesterday alone.  I've never had a single problem.

Purchasing from anyone on-line calls for some common sense in choosing who to deal with.  I stick to 100% favorable, or nearly 100%.  If slightly below, I check the nature of the negative complaints.  Some are just downright stupid.  Like buying an HO item and saying it was smaller than I expected.  Or purchasing an N scale train set for a 5 year old and complaining about the kid not being able to manage it.  Somehow, that was the seller's fault, right.Sad

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 1:13 PM

riogrande5761
It is my understanding if an item is not as advertised, then even if the seller doesn't take returns, Ebay will refund you the money. But contact the seller first.

Yes, if you pay through PayPal, and the item is not as the seller represented it, you can still get a refund even if the seller says "no refunds" in their listing.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    May 2014
  • From: Pennsylvania
  • 1,154 posts
Posted by Trainman440 on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 3:12 PM

As a seller (and buyer) on Ebay, I can concur. I've sold a few items where some minor issue would occur during shipping(such as a wheel pop out, or a loose screw), and the buyer would force return the item, making me loose $20 for the shipping and return shipping...

Ebay and Paypal side with the customer far more than the seller. Take advantage of their money back guarantee, but don't abuse it!

Charles

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO

Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440

Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 3:19 PM

This thread has now officially morphed into "Buying and Selling on Ebay, Methods and the Methodoligy"  

Probably a better direction than where it all started. 

Mike.

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Yorkton, Sk, Cnd
  • 441 posts
Posted by wvg_ca on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 3:19 PM

the OP only posted here twice, and hasn't been on for a month ...

just another spammer, lol

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!