Hello Everyone,
I'm new to these forums, and I hate to start on a downer, but I'm trying to figure out if Walthers is telling me the truth. I recently purchased a set of the Walthers Deluxe Passenger Cars on Ebay (PRR Broadway Limited) and when I received them, three of the cars would not light up as advertised. I figured out that the two with Soundtraxx decoders had to have the lights turned on via DCC loco #3 and one of the option switches. There was still one car (Chickie's Creek 12-4 Sleeper #920-9262) that didn't light, and upon opening it, I found out that it didn't even have a light board installed.
I contacted Walthers a first time, and they didn't get back to me after about two months, so I just purchased the lighting kit that is listed in the cars exploded assembly (#920-1060). The kit came in, and I went to install it; however, it doesn't fit into the car because the raised interior sections for the sleeping rooms interferes with it. I contacted Walthers a second time to see if there was a different lighting kit to fit that car, and they did get back to me to say that some of the kits just don't take lighting or I'd have to cut into the model to make it fit.
I find this hard to believe given that the deluxe set with all cars advertised as lighted had one without lights even though their website, the box, and the exploded diagram say that it is lighted. Also, I can't find any place else on the internet making this complaint, which also seems hard to believe.
Therefore, I am curious if anyone else has either of the two deluxe sets and whether their 12-4 sleeper car is lighted?
Just frustrated and hoping someone else has these to confirm or deny the story I am getting.
Thanks for listening.
Jeff
From eBay? Was this a new-in-the-box purchase, or was it already used when you got it?
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Welcome to the forums.
OK, you bought them on Ebay, and NOT through Walthers, so Walthers probably doesn't really care about your cars, and they did answer your questions on the lighting kit, although it wasn't exactly what you wanted to here.
I know nothing about the cars or the lighting kits.
Don't expect the manufacturer of an item you bought on Ebay, and not through that manufacturer, to give you a quick response.
Maybe you do have to modify the lighting kits.
Good luck,
Mike.
My You Tube
I have shopped at Walthers for years. Never had a problem. However, you didn't buy it from them. Sorry to say, but I don't think you can blame them for irregularities in your purchase.
Phil, CEO, Eastern Sierra Pacific Railroad. We know where you are going, before you do!
It's possible the seller didn't know. We had one forum member who bought a AB Santa Fe F7 with sound and they didn't have decoders in them at all.
Even if Walthers packed the wrong car in the box, I think its the sellers problem, not Walthers.
Anyway lots of people here have lit their passenger cars so I'm sure you will get some advice
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Jeff,
You might get a more on point repsones if you re-title the thread to something more representative of what you need to know - "Question about walthers passenger cars" or "lighting Walthers passenger cars". Welcome to the forums.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
To clarify a few things. I did purchase these cars on Ebay; however, they were new in the box from a dealer that was selling off their hobby shop. The boxes were pristine, and unless the seller was a very good liar / counterfeiter, these did come straight from Walthers. (I'm not sure how Walthers is blameless on an Ebay purchase vice me purchasing from an online or brick and mortar hobby shop. They are the manufacturer.) What I am trying to find out is whether this particular car in a set that is advertised as all lighted did or did not have a light set in it. Since all advertising, instructions, and boxes make the claim, it seem disingenuous that one particular car would not have it without that being noted anywhere.
How is Walthers (or any manufacturer) responsible for e-bay? Perhaps go back to the seller or e-bay and complain? If you bought the item from Walthers, then of course complain to them.
railrdjeff Hello Everyone, To clarify a few things. I did purchase these cars on Ebay; however, they were new in the box from a dealer that was selling off their hobby shop. The boxes were pristine, and unless the seller was a very good liar / counterfeiter, these did come straight from Walthers. (I'm not sure how Walthers is blameless on an Ebay purchase vice me purchasing from an online or brick and mortar hobby shop. They are the manufacturer.) What I am trying to find out is whether this particular car in a set that is advertised as all lighted did or did not have a light set in it. Since all advertising, instructions, and boxes make the claim, it seem disingenuous that one particular car would not have it without that being noted anywhere.
I'm not a PRR modeler, and I don't keep up with all the details of every name train set Walthers has offered.
BUT, a little quick research suggests this car was not sold as part of a lighted name train set, but rather was sold unlighted as an add on car, and because of its multi level sleeper design, may not be automatically compatible with their "basic" lighting kit.
Walthers has no control over how some Ebay seller describes or advertises their products.
Just because the seller called it a set, does not mean Walthers sold it that way.
Sheldon
the car number 920-9262 was NOT sold as a set, individual only .. however Walthers info does show it as having included factory LED lighting ..
I would go after the seller, NOT Walthers
railrdjeffJust frustrated and hoping someone else has these to confirm or deny the story I am getting.
Hi Jeff,
I see no indication that Walthers is lying to you. What possible good would lying to you do them? That is simply not how they operate. If it was, we would be hearing about it all over the place.
Yes, they can be faulted for not answering your first enquiry, that is if they got the message. However, all I see from them after that are honest, factual responses. The car in question has clearly been identified as not having been part of the original set. Therefore, any references to the set would not apply to the add on car. My suggestion is to modify the interior of the offending car so that the lighting kit fits, and then run your train!
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Can you simply create your own lighting circuit? A few small LED's, a magnetic reed switch, and some wire.
Either battery powered or track powered if the car is wired for such.
It's not a hard thing, and would allow the car to be lighted.
And no, Walthers is not lying. They would gain nothing good, and only harm their very good reputation that they have worked very hard to gain with modelers. It appears this add on car was either never lighted and described wrong by the eBay seller, or had been modified and is not indeed "new in box" if there was ever supposed to be a lighting circuit in it.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Well,
Walthers is advertising this car as lighted on their web site:
For 90 USD per piece, it is understandable that buyer is upset and manufacturer held responsible, not seller. Because product was not advertised honestly/correctly by the manufacturer in the first place. Why seller should be held responsible at all?
Hrvoje
Spalato68For 90 USD per piece, it is understandable that buyer is upset and manufacturer held responsible, not seller. Because product was not advertised honestly/correctly by the manufacturer in the first place. Why seller should be held responsible at all? Hrvoje
Hi Hrvoje,
Well, it would appear that the OP was right about the car description, that is unless Walthers offered a similar car previously without lighting. If that were the case then Walthers owed the OP a more informed response.
However, I think that the most important issue here is to recognize that we all make mistakes and apparently so does Walthers. However, to accuse them of lying is a bit extreme. As was said, what would they gain by conducting their business in that manner? I'd suggest that the OP be patient and approach Walthers again. What's to lose?
This is an issue between you and the seller. I would initiate a dispute with them. If you bought the items through PayPal, you can file a dispute with them, unless you used the "Friend or family" option. With this option, you forfeit some rights as a buyer.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
hon30critter Spalato68 For 90 USD per piece, it is understandable that buyer is upset and manufacturer held responsible, not seller. Because product was not advertised honestly/correctly by the manufacturer in the first place. Why seller should be held responsible at all? Hrvoje Hi Hrvoje, Well, it would appear that the OP was right about the car description, that is unless Walthers offered a similar car previously without lighting. If that were the case then Walthers owed the OP a more informed response. However, I think that the most important issue here is to recognize that we all make mistakes and apparently so does Walthers. However, to accuse them of lying is a bit extreme. As was said, what would they gain by conducting their business in that manner? I'd suggest that the OP be patient and approach Walthers again. What's to lose? Dave
Spalato68 For 90 USD per piece, it is understandable that buyer is upset and manufacturer held responsible, not seller. Because product was not advertised honestly/correctly by the manufacturer in the first place. Why seller should be held responsible at all? Hrvoje
Hi Dave,
yes, it is true - we all make mistakes. But when confronted with it, if someone is honest, at least what this person can do is apologize.
OP did contact Whalters twice. For the first time, they even did not respond, although they knew, they advertise that this car has lighting, which is not true. Moreover, in sheet included in the package of that car they advertise lighting kit that does not fit that car, unless a car (prices at 90 USD!!) is adapted by customer.
Well, for me, that is a bad customer service. Walthers could, when contacted for the first time, apologize. On second time though, they should not only apologize, but offer a full refund for this lighting kit, because OP should get it in a first place, when he bought the car, beleiving that lighting kit is there, and then, he bought it separately, but it does not fit, despite Walthers advertises it fits.
Instead, they just told him, well - cut a part of the interior, and install it. Why this was not explained on a sheet included with a car?
In fact, they sold him twice a wrongly advertised product. Patience?
Spalato68 hon30critter Spalato68 For 90 USD per piece, it is understandable that buyer is upset and manufacturer held responsible, not seller. Because product was not advertised honestly/correctly by the manufacturer in the first place. Why seller should be held responsible at all? Hrvoje Hi Hrvoje, Well, it would appear that the OP was right about the car description, that is unless Walthers offered a similar car previously without lighting. If that were the case then Walthers owed the OP a more informed response. However, I think that the most important issue here is to recognize that we all make mistakes and apparently so does Walthers. However, to accuse them of lying is a bit extreme. As was said, what would they gain by conducting their business in that manner? I'd suggest that the OP be patient and approach Walthers again. What's to lose? Dave Hi Dave, yes, it is true - we all make mistakes. But when confronted with it, if someone is honest, at least what this person can do is apologize. OP did contact Whalters twice. For the first time, they even did not respond, although they knew, they advertise that this car has lighting, which is not true. Moreover, in sheet included in the package of that car they advertise lighting kit that does not fit that car, unless a car (prices at 90 USD!!) is adapted by customer. Well, for me, that is a bad customer service. Walthers could, when contacted for the first time, apologize. On second time though, they should not only apologize, but offer a full refund for this lighting kit, because OP should get it in a first place, when he bought the car, beleiving that lighting kit is there, and then, he bought it separately, but it does not fit, despite Walthers advertises it fits. Instead, they just told him, well - cut a part of the interior, and install it. Why this was not explained on a sheet included with a car? In fact, they sold him twice a wrongly advertised product. Patience? Hrvoje
The nice people at Walthers no longer make these products right out back in their own factory, they have them made a half a world away by a contract vendor.
Over the years I suspect these products have been made by various vendors, in various versions. The shear volume of different passenger cas Walthers has made in the last 20 years is staggering. And detailed catalog records of every offering are not as available to the public as they were when they made less items, and printed a complete, detailed catalog every year.
So lots of things could have happened here............
The vendor Walthers used may have made a mistake, that would be Wathers responsiblity.......but for how long into the future? These particular cars were made some years back, 2016?.
It is unreasonable to buy and hold products unopened and unused for many years and then expect a manufacturer to have parts or replacement items for defects long after they are no longer producing the item.
It is at least partly the responsibilty of the retailer to be responsible for defects in "new old stock" merchandise he is selling.
BUT, if Walthers did not make the mistake, maybe the same car without lighting was produced. Maybe the packaging was switched with such a car, purposely or by accident.
Maybe the parts were removed by someone? To fix another car? This could have happened anywhere along the way, and the car mistakenly put back in stock for sale.
How can Walthers be held responsible for what happens to the product after it leaves them, assuming it was correct when it left?
Walthers is a big player in this hobby, yet the whole of their directly employed staff could pose for a picture just like your third grade class. This is an industry of small companies by any measure, customer service is something they want to deliver, but cannot deliver on the "instant gratification" scale many people expect, they are not AMAZON.
This problem is an example of one of the short comings of the "limited production", preorder sold, marketing of these products.
If you bought a new automobile tomorrow, with a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, and parked in a garage for five years before starting to use it, guess what, the manufacturer is not going to warranty it - period.
A little more research finds that in the July 2016 issue of Model Railroader, there is a review of an unlighted version of this car........offered for only $75, no catalog number is given.........
Again, it seems your first complaint should be to the seller.........
kasskabooseHow is Walthers (or any manufacturer) responsible for e-bay? Perhaps go back to the seller or e-bay and complain? If you bought the item from Walthers, then of course complain to them.
Just for general information.
There are several B&M hobby shops on e-Bay that sells ther old stock through their e-bay store.. The shipping invoice should have the name,phone number and address of the shop.
These are the sellers I buy from because they are LHS and not a private seller getting rid of models they no longer need nor want..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
The problem, as I see it, is not with Walthers at all.
The item in question was bought off of eBay, not from Walthers.
The item in question may or may not have been listed on eBay as new in box.
The item in question maybe boxed incorrectly by the seller on eBay, modified, changed, or otherwise altered from its new from the manufacturer status by the eBay seller, or someone else prior to them.
The item in question was indeed offered by Walthers as a lighted and unlighted car, maybe the eBay seller had both and mixed up the boxes, inserts, etc... either deliberately or accidentally.
Maybe the eBay seller had two similar looking cars, and mixed them up, and the item in question is not even the Walthers car at all. (This would explain why the lighting kit does not fit.)
When was the original message to Walthers sent? IIRC, OP said he never received an answer for 3 weeks before messaging again. Christmas break might have explained the absence of a initial response, as the timing is about correct....
Again, why would Walthers, a company that has worked very hard to have a good reputation, ruin it by deliberately lying to someone about a product that was purchased second (or even third or more) hand from some other location. (eBay) The answer is simple - They wouldn't.
The point is, the issue the OP has posted about is not an issue of Walthers lying to him, but the eBay seller misrepresenting the sold item. Either deliberately or accidentally, the eBay seller has misrepresented this item.
The OP's issue is not with Walthers.
The OP has a issue with the seller on eBay.
Has the OP contacted the eBay seller about this issue? If they are a legitimate company selling excess stock, or a honest seller, the seller will respond to fix the issue and make the buyer happy.
If the seller deliberately ripped off the OP, ebay will step in to help. But, the OP must contact seller and eBay, as well as Paypal, before too much time has elapsed and the buyer is then out of options.
So, in conclusion, NO, Walthers has not lied to the OP. The eBay seller has.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Ya, the problem is that although there are some hobby shops that sell on Ebay, Walthers is going to make the assumption that anything bought on Ebay is "used", in the sense that the seller is the original buyer - and often, a warranty only applies to the original buyer.
BTW does the car say "Chickies Creek" on it, and does it look like it was lettered at the factory rather than a decal added later? If it is "Chickies Creek" then it is Walthers Part # 920-9262 as on the box. If not, it's probably Walthers Part # 920-9242, which is basically the same PRR car but without lighting and without a name (you get a set of decals to add that part of the lettering yourself).
https://www.walthers.com/85-p-s-plan-9009-12-4-sleeper-standard-rtr-1960s-broadway-limited-pennsylvania-railroad-creek-series-tuscan-black-dulux
https://www.walthers.com/1960s-broadway-limited-85-p-s-12-4-sleeper-plan-9009-dlx-2-pennsylvania-railroad-chickies-creek-tuscan-black-dulux
ALso the factory lighted one includes figures. Got those too? If the figures are missing as well, then what you got is the 9242 version. If it was in a 9262 box, then the seller owes you an explanation. The item number ought to be molded on the underside of the car, as well.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy makes a good point.
I'm not going to comment on the specific car, but JMO:
If the seller is an authorized Walthers dealer and he listed the item as "new" (which by ebay defintion means UNOPENED, IIRC), then it would seem that Walthers may be at risk of having an item not all that it should be.
If there is any way the seller described the item as not being brand new and unopened, then they are the responsible party, not Walthers. And, IMO, selling one car out of a set seems like somebody monkeyed with the set. If its a set, then Walthers intends for it to be sold as a set. If its a car, then Walthers intends for it to be sold as a car. If its represented to be compatible with a set, then it should be. If its not advertised to be compatible with a set, then you shouldn't assume that it is.
If somebody is representing a car as being part of a set, then Walthers bears no responsibility, IMO.
- Douglas
I am unhappy with the title of this thread. Yes, there are some unscrupulous dealers out there, but I have always found Walthers to be responsive and helpful to the extent they can be. They have a tremendous number of items in their catalog and on their shelves. No one can be expected to know small details of every item.
I would give them the benefit of the doubt if they responded but didn't get all of the details right. They are probably doing their best.
Well, it's not the first time a new member has come on here with his 1st or 2nd post complaining that someone is ripping them off, and manufacturer bashing.
I've bought a lot of supposedly NOS equipment from Ebay, and I knew what I was getting into.
Never have I thought that the original manufacturer or supplier of the model was at any fault with any discrepancies or mechanical problems.
It is what it is, a purchase from an Ebay seller, and who knows what the chain of events and travel the model went through before the seller got his hands on it, and ultimately, to the buyers hands.
I think there has been enough info in here for the OP to work with, and maybe even learn from.
mbinsewiWell, it's not the first time a new member has come on here with his 1st or 2nd post complaining that someone is ripping them off
.
Yes, I have noticed that quite a few times where a new member on the forums wishes to gripe and it seems they hope we will all join the chorus of griping.
I have very little dealings with Walthers.
I bought all my Walthers building kits and my two switch engines from MB Klein. There were no problems, and that was the end of it.
I purchased all my old style Walthers/Shinohara switches from eBay, and even the ones NIB/NOS, I know Walthers would not be able to stand behind them 20 years down the road from when they were manufactured.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I own only a few Walthers brand locomotives and rolling stock: Two SW1s (original and newer run), two 46' gondolas and a caboose. The locomotives I've been happy with. All three pieces of rolling stock, however, had interferenece issues on curves. So I no longer purchase any of their rolling stock, nor do I run them behind any of my locomotives.
Walthers structures kits have generally been good-quality and I've liked their offerings but I haven't purchased anything they've manufactured in probably 10 years; preferring laser kits, craftsman kits, or kitbashing other manufacturer's kit to get the structures I want. I don't even venture onto the Walthers website anymore because I know they generally charge full MSRP for an item then hammer you again with escessive S&H. The only way I might order anything from Walthers is through my LHS because 1) they have an account with them and 2) I don't have to pay the S&H costs. The item also has to be on sale.
Walthers has its place. Their products just have a very low priority/interest for the layout that I'm interested in at this time.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I've acquired a lot of stuff from Walthers. I used to take the Walthers Flyer to bed and read it, just like when I was a kid with a Lionel catalog.
My former LHS would place a Walthers order every week anyway, so he was happy to add my wish list. He would give me the flyer price and I would not be charged for shipping. So, I could order small items like scenic details that would be priced out by shipping costs.
tstage I own only a few Walthers brand locomotives and rolling stock: Two SW1s (original and newer run), two 46' gondolas and a caboose. The locomotives I've been happy with. All three pieces of rolling stock, however, had interferenece issues on curves. So I no longer purchase any of their rolling stock, nor do I run them behind any of my locomotives. Walthers structures kits have generally been good-quality and I've liked their offerings but I haven't purchased anything they've manufactured in probably 10 years; preferring laser kits, craftsman kits, or kitbashing other manufacturer's kit to get the structures I want. I don't even venture onto the Walthers website anymore because I know they generally charge full MSRP for an item then hammer you again with escessive S&H. The only way I might order anything from Walthers is through my LHS because 1) they have an account with them and 2) I don't have to pay the S&H costs. The item also has to be on sale. Walthers has its place. Their products just have a very low priority/interest for the layout that I'm interested in at this time. Tom
Agreed on virtually all points.
Walthers is a manufacturer/importer, they are only in the retail business as part of a tradition that is as old as the company. A tradition most "young people" are not aware of. That tradition, long before today's internet or even the mail order houses of the 60's, 70's and 80's, was to serve those who did not have access to a local retail hobby store.
The retail branch of Walthers, once called the Terminal Hobby Shop, was truely one of the first mail order suppliers in this business.
But back then, as today, they did not want to undermine their retailers by discounting prices. That was back in a day when most shops sold at retail or only very small discounts.
Walthers has made it clear in recent years by their actions that they don't really want to be a distributor or even a full line retailer of other brands any more. But they can't change all of this over night......
More and more other brands are disappearing from their offerings, just part of the transition away from "distributors" and toward all retailers buying direct from manufacturers and/or all manufacturers selling their product direct to the customer.
I have a moderate amount of Walthers product, much of it dates all the way back to the 80's, some even older.
But agreed, they are not a major source for me either. I'm not a buyer of expensive RTR passenger cars, I have most of the locos I need and want, and as a DC operator prefer pre Walthers Proto stuff.
Some of their rolling stock fits my needs, much does not.
Whatever Walthers product I do buy is bought where ever I find it at the right price........
But I have to ask? What radius curves are you having interference issues with their rolling stock?
Cabooses, especially steam era eastern cabooses, are known for having trucks close to steps at the end, which if done totally to scale can easily be an issue even with moderately large curves.
So, I'm just curious?
Sheldon,
I had issues with R22" curves; larger than R18" but still moderately sharp. I found that paring the inside corner of the caboose steps with an Xacto knife did improve performance some but still didn't completely eliminate the binding issue. I seem to recollect from other's responses in the past that - even on larger radii curves - certain Walthers rolling stock still had some binding issues.
More imporant than that the Walthers caboose wasn't a good stand-in for a low cupola NYC caboose. (That was early on in my modeling so I was pretty green in my understanding of prototype cars.) It wasn't a complete loss though. I eventually cannibalized the doors, windows, and stairs of that Walthers caboose to kitbash a prototype model of a NYC emergency war caboose. I'm still hoping to create a V.2 of that unique car with better/more accurate parts.