Overmod ATLANTIC CENTRAL That is all very interesting, but I believe Ulrich was simply refering to someone re-entering the HO model trolley bus market? My point being more that any 'new' model bus system would replicate things actually being built, not necessarily wired systems. I'm surprised no one has tried building one of those periodic-recharge systems. Bus reaches a stop, poles go up, you have the option of flywheel acceleration sound for those prototypes that use it. Bus doors close, poles go down, bus moves to next stop. Plenty of visual appeal there, and you could easily adapt it to live contacts and periodic recharge of running battery or supercap in the bus, just like many of the 'real' ones do.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL That is all very interesting, but I believe Ulrich was simply refering to someone re-entering the HO model trolley bus market?
My point being more that any 'new' model bus system would replicate things actually being built, not necessarily wired systems.
I'm surprised no one has tried building one of those periodic-recharge systems. Bus reaches a stop, poles go up, you have the option of flywheel acceleration sound for those prototypes that use it. Bus doors close, poles go down, bus moves to next stop. Plenty of visual appeal there, and you could easily adapt it to live contacts and periodic recharge of running battery or supercap in the bus, just like many of the 'real' ones do.
Well, I think if anyone ventured into the HO or N scale trolley bus market again, it would anly make sense to develop one overhead wire system, then produce buses that refect current US and European systems, and buses that reflect the strong period of US usage, 1930 to 1960.
In the US, modeling present day, and modeling the post WWII transition era remain the most popular modeling choices from what we can tell. Such a product would have an appeal to both groups.
Modeling the cutting edge future, not to sure about that?
Here in my little world, two factory fresh SD9's from LaGrange are the newest locomotives in the world, in September 1954..........
1954 was likely the high water mark for trolley buses in Baltimore, and possibly in the whole of the US.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALThat is all very interesting, but I believe Ulrich was simply refering to someone re-entering the HO model trolley bus market?
My point being more that any 'new' model bus system might replicate things like point-recharge actually being built or considered, not just necessarily wired systems.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI believe Ulrich was simply refering to someone re-entering the HO model trolley bus market?
That´s quite right, Sheldon, I was referring to working HO scale models of trolley buses.
As for the prototype, the "dumb pole" still offers advantages over any battery solution. While battery operated may see an advantage in places with a rather moderate climate, cities with harsh winters certainly could face range issues. Anyhow, cities like Zurich in Switzerland are still investing into the "classic" trolley bus and we all know that the Swiss are thrifty people ...
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
Ed - That´s interesting and a new one to me. The model sold under the Aristo Craft brand seems to be an early Eheim production model. Unfortunately, the performance was something else and this earned the system a bad reputation, even when Brawa took over and modernized it.
nycmodel more like metal strips than wires
You remember correctly. Earlier sets from AristoCraft (made in Western Germany) used metal strips instead of the round wire. Here's a set on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Western-Germany-AristoCraft-HO-Scale-Electric-Trolley-Bus-System/143377181646?hash=item2161f22bce:g:yHsAAOSwLhFddPmg
Pricey, of course... but just for reference.
My brother, who's into American Flyer S gauge, bought about a dozen or so of these sets many (40?) years ago, from a hardware store in Baltimore going out of business. A few ran, but most didn't, and the catenary was very clunky (even by Flyer standards!). Knowing my brother as I do, I'm sure he still has them boxed away somewhere...
Ed
Overmod Tinplate Toddler Sheldon - I believe that, should a manufacturer be brave enough to market a trolley bus system, it would be an instant success, at least in continental Europe, as more and more cities seem to be interested in this form of "green" public transport. The only thing there is that both the plug-in hybrid developments and the periodic-recharge alternatives give you most if not all of the 'green' advantages without the high fixed costs and eyesores of overhead double trolley wiring. There are certainly places for longer-distance running, for example larger regional services comparable to American interurbans, or in BRT-like schemes, where trolleybus operation is desirable - do you happen to remember where to find information on that British proposal to put the conductors, ground, and data in one "collector head" that would be servo-tracked to keep it on the overhead wires independent of vehicle movement? it was like three poles in one 'turret' head and as I recall the initial DFM for it had been done. A modern clean-sheet-of-paper trolleybus need not use dumb poles or require someone to go 'outside' to rewire...
Tinplate Toddler Sheldon - I believe that, should a manufacturer be brave enough to market a trolley bus system, it would be an instant success, at least in continental Europe, as more and more cities seem to be interested in this form of "green" public transport.
The only thing there is that both the plug-in hybrid developments and the periodic-recharge alternatives give you most if not all of the 'green' advantages without the high fixed costs and eyesores of overhead double trolley wiring.
There are certainly places for longer-distance running, for example larger regional services comparable to American interurbans, or in BRT-like schemes, where trolleybus operation is desirable - do you happen to remember where to find information on that British proposal to put the conductors, ground, and data in one "collector head" that would be servo-tracked to keep it on the overhead wires independent of vehicle movement? it was like three poles in one 'turret' head and as I recall the initial DFM for it had been done. A modern clean-sheet-of-paper trolleybus need not use dumb poles or require someone to go 'outside' to rewire...
That is all very interesting, but I believe Ulrich was simply refering to someone re-entering the HO model trolley bus market?
As currently there are no manufacturers in that space. In fact, since the 1950's introduction by Eheim, the only direct competitor to Eheim/Brawa was a brief Japan knock off sold in the 60's.
Tinplate ToddlerSheldon - I believe that, should a manufacturer be brave enough to market a trolley bus system, it would be an instant success, at least in continental Europe, as more and more cities seem to be interested in this form of "green" public transport.
Thank you for bringing back a memory from my youth. When I was about 10, I received a Christmas gift of an electrical trolly bus system, probably Brawa. It was just a simple loop with what I recall were fairly large catenary wires, more like metal strips than wires. It ran around inside my Super O Lionel 4 x 8 past the Plasticville structures. Wish I still had it all.
They are all over the place in Russia.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
mbinsewi BigDaddy Then and now I don't know why they didn't accidentally stray too far from the cantenary. Yea, that got me wondering as well. So I just had to dig around. Wiki calls it "dewirements", and drivers need extra training on how to keep in the lane when turning corners, and to slow down at overhead wire crossings to avoid dewirements. I don't think I'd like that job. Mike.
BigDaddy Then and now I don't know why they didn't accidentally stray too far from the cantenary.
Yea, that got me wondering as well. So I just had to dig around.
Wiki calls it "dewirements", and drivers need extra training on how to keep in the lane when turning corners, and to slow down at overhead wire crossings to avoid dewirements.
I don't think I'd like that job.
Mike.
It's not as hard as you might think, they were designed to have reasonable leeway.
That was actually one of the main advantages on top of not having tracks in the street to maintain.
The trolley bus could actually pull over to the curb, and steer around minor obstructions (dumb motorists).
Just like looking forward down at the road and staying in your lane, the driver could look up and the wires and steer toward them. If he stayed reasonably under them, the poles generally could track fine.
Now, the way most people drive today, spoiled by power steering, making lazy and jerky turns, it might be hard to teach some of them to drive a trolley bus..........
Tinplate Toddler Sheldon - I believe that, should a manufacturer be brave enough to market a trolley bus system, it would be an instant success, at least in continental Europe, as more and more cities seem to be interested in this form of "green" public transport. If you plan to use old Eheim/Brawa buses, they would certainly benefit from having a new motor installed.
Sheldon - I believe that, should a manufacturer be brave enough to market a trolley bus system, it would be an instant success, at least in continental Europe, as more and more cities seem to be interested in this form of "green" public transport.
If you plan to use old Eheim/Brawa buses, they would certainly benefit from having a new motor installed.
There are still a few system here in the US, and a few being considered from what I understand.
I'm currently reading a book on the history of the Baltimore Transit Company, they struggled in the 50's trying to decide between Trolley Buses and diesel buses. Several of the Trolley Bus routes lasted until 1959 here in Baltimore.
I was thinking a new motor and/or a better power supply might do a lot for the Brawa bus. Later ones are also made of better plastic and have the steering "internal", making them look much better.
We will see.
Yes, even here in the US, I think a new product could do well.
My You Tube
Well, the Eheim/Brawa bus has the right look for the era:
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-gLi6Iz2pWTU%2FVhPsl_vOyhI%2FAAAAAAAALUY%2FKRUOB0YSM9Y%2Fs1600%2Fusa_m_bal_brill_2133_yards_ss.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Feddiesrailroad.blogspot.com%2F2015%2F10%2Fbaltimore-transit-company-brill.html&docid=SqkEc2-XcKxQ4M&tbnid=dDzVQHxUVnCKWM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjxitXR6bfmAhVChOAKHSe6BV8QMwhXKAowCg..i&w=868&h=505&bih=625&biw=1280&q=BALTIMORE%20TRANSIT%20TROLLEY%20BUS&ved=0ahUKEwjxitXR6bfmAhVChOAKHSe6BV8QMwhXKAowCg&iact=mrc&uact=8
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Flive.staticflickr.com%2F8208%2F8214458462_ff81655d7b_b.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fd-dougied%2F8214458462&docid=BBGS7QoMHuuDGM&tbnid=UnHZzIOLLoMntM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwih-5PS6rfmAhVlTd8KHU6PAhsQMwhmKBUwFQ..i&w=1024&h=851&bih=625&biw=1280&q=brawa%20trolleybus&ved=0ahUKEwih-5PS6rfmAhVlTd8KHU6PAhsQMwhmKBUwFQ&iact=mrc&uact=8
Performance is a question......
Slightly over size I can live with, catenary could likely be improved some.
What I will not do is turn this into some massive project in terms of time or cost.
My hope would be to find a latter production Brawa set or two and check them out to see what improvements would be simple.
Still working on the "route" and how big, small it might need to be for a reasonabley beleiveable effect. Even if it was just a small visable portion that appeared to connect a larger system to the passenger station?
From those videos (the OPs and Ulriches) it seems these trolley buses move quite realisticly! I think if you could add some details then you could make a quite realistic scene.
Or perhaps you could use a road system (EDIT just like Ulrich’s first video which I initially missed) of some sort as the drive and then have non operating wires. That might allow for a more realistic appearance.
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
Yeah well Kevin, a lot of model railroading demands the suspension of belief, HO fflokes standing on platforms never getting on the train that they’re waiting for, is one that readily springs to my tiny mind.
.
That is why it is always 2:00 in the afternoon on my layout, time never moves.
I look at it as a diorama where only the trains move. I know that makes no sense at all, and requires a complete suspension of belief, but it works for me.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
More inspiration:
SeeYou190 I think it would make the fact that none of the other vehicles move seem way too out of place.
Not, if you either add a Faller Car System or Magnorail system to your layout. With Magnorail, you can even have bikes running in the street!
SeeYou190I have never seen an operating model of a trolley bus. I think it would make the fact that none of the other vehicles move seem way too out of place.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Trolley buses are still quite popular in Europe. Salzburg/Austria has a quite extensive network of trolley bus lines, and in Solingen/Germany are also a few lines. Britain has scrapped all trolley buses in the 1950s and 1960s, but in eastern European countries, they are still abundant.
There is no functioning HO scale model of a trolley bus currently on the market. The former Eheim line, later Brawa, was quite OK and only slightly oversize, but it wasn´t working very well. The catenary was quide crude and the movement rather jerky due to pick-up issues. Rietze in Germany makes a nice model of a trolley bus, which could be used as a basis for a working model.
I found this interesting video on Youtube:
Daniel used the Faller Car System to "steer" the bus around the track, and not the trolley poles, which Eheim linked mechanically to the front wheels. He was thus able to make the catenary look a little more prototypical. Electrical pick-up is done through the trolley poles.
All electric buses (not hybrid) are coming very soon. The City of Gainesville, Florida is getting two of them next year.
I have never seen an operating model of a trolley bus. I think it would make the fact that none of the other vehicles move seem way too out of place.
They still run trolley buses in Dayton, OH:
I've been interested in/kicking around the idea of a layout based on the Shaker Heights (OH) trolley line. (It ran from Shaker Heights down to E.55th in Cleveland. Not sure if it made it as far as Cleveland Union Terminal. ) I have both of the Bowser Shaker Heights post-war PCC trolleys and they are very nice models. It would be a fun project and make a good, narrow, around-the-wall shelf layout for a given room.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Well, it's certainly interesting. If you have the city streets on your layout, it would be a fun addition. Unfortunately, I don't --- and I'm in S scale.
Paul
I only rode them only a couple times in Baltimore. Unlike streetcars, which had wheel noise that I could hear from my home 1 mile away from the #8 line. They were dead quiet. Then and now I don't know why they didn't accidentally stray too far from the cantenary.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
My first layout featured a Eheim/Aristo Craft/Brawa trolley bus, it wore out, my interests changed, I never bought any more while they were still available new.
As I am planning the new layout, my interest in either a city trolley system, or a trolley bus system, has been rekindled.
Brawa, the last producer and marketer of the Eheim trolley bus, gave up on the product nearly two decades ago. It was after all product that had never really been updated much from it original 1950's design, and it was a little oversized, and dare I say toy like.
Rubber tired trolley buses were pretty common in many US cities from the mid 30's into the 50's. Here in Baltimore, after WWII, trolley buses made up about 1/3 of the Baltimore Transit Co system.
I am still working out the details to see if either a trolley or a trolley bus would be practical in my city scene, but it just got me wondering if anyone on here is running trolley buses or has any interest?
For those of you not familiar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mS4Mhx-r1Y
Your thoughts?,