Well, as some of you know i recently purchased a new 12x20 building to re begin my layout adventure. I was feeling good and thought i would try to spruce up my old N scale layout of the Salt Lake Route that was featured in MRR back in 2008 or somewhere there abouts. I had laid all of my Kato uni Track on the plywood sub base and attachached it with silicone caulking like the article suggested. Appearently after setting for all of the past years the silicone had setup like liquid nails. I had decided earlier to go to Lowes and purchase a new sheet of 2" extruded foam to put my track back down on after i had removed it from the plywood....So everything sounded good until i got back with the foam and started trying to remove the Uni Track from the plywood with a sharp putty knife. All of the double main line came up with no problem but when i got to the first of my #6 turnouts i noticed that it wasnt coming up so easy. After another 3 turnouts and 1 double crossover i realized that NONE of the turnouts would come up without destroying them totally. Needless to say i know have to re purchase 6 #6 turnouts and 1 double crossover or scrap the layout rehab and start a new around the wall shelf layout....Either way it was a very expensive lesson to learn. Turns out the reason that the turnouts and double crossover were stuck so good it due to the piece of aluminum on the bottoms of each....It would NOT let loose of the silicone...So what would you guys do???? Replace the turnouts and move on or scrap the whole layout? I am looking for pros and cons! Thanks!
Start over. Learn from the past, avoid the old mistakes, and make some new ones!
I would also consider switching to track without plastic roadbed. Overall, the costs would be cheaper, and it would allow you to experiment with hand laying track.
I say don't glue down the turnouts next time.
Gluing down the other track sections will be more than sufficient.
And NO, don't hand lay track unless you are a glutton for punishment. The Kato (HO) track that I have is the BEST track I ever had, and I regret that I altered my trackplan with Atlas and Shinohara track and Peco turnouts (the Peco turnouts are fine, but the other track is actually noisier and more problematic than Kato).
The Kato track IS the best track I ever used. The Shinohara is the noisiest; even glued down to soft foam roadbed, it is noisier than Kato glued down with Liquid Nails. The Atlas is ok, but not as smooth as the Kato.
John
Cork, flex track and forgiving adhesives is my suggestion.
Forgiving adhesives are also sound deadening until you put the ballast on, unless you put a bead of Alex plus on the edge of the cork. Although at this phase of the project I usually switch to a hand held squeeze tube of polyseamseal for more control.
This little step does wonders to sound deadening before you apply the ballast.
We put silicone on stainless steel handicap bars in showers, the reason being it holds like a monster after it dries. You can take all the screws out of the toggle anchors after the silicone dries and you still cannot pull that handicap bar off with all your might. The reason this is done is you can't always hit the studs where people want their handicap bars.
For model railroad modeling applications things are very different and an extremely lighter application. Switch to Alex plus clear caulk. It holds very well enough and is reversible if you change your mind.
Never glue down turnouts as John stated, you don't need to, let them float. Much to spendy of an item if you ever change your mind.
TF
Well, if you have read many of my previous posts, you know I will say scrap it.
.
I look at layouts as learning experiences, and each new one should start with a blank space.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Changing to an around the room shelf layout would be all the motivation I would need to start over.
My layout room is about 9'3" x 19'. The layout is below MY eye level, I'm 6'2. This leaves the rest of the room below the layout for workbenches and storage. From the layout surface to the ceiling is sky, with room for backdrop scenery if and when...
I work in HO. I can only imagine how much more RRing you could do with the same space in N scale, and in shallower benches (shelves).
Not being an N scaler, I can't advise on trackage, but Johns advise above sounds pretty convincing.
Embrace the change! Just my 2 cents. Dan.
I disagree about not handlayong track, it really is quite satisfying if you know how to do it. Just be sure to take your time!
That said I have not actually ever handlaid track in N, only HO. My LHS didn’t have code 55 rail when I wanted it so I had to go with Atlas track. As my layout is a bit temporary I use sectional track but in the future I will use Atlas or MicroEngineering flextrack or handlay. The Atlas sectional track works fine though, and it’s not too pricey!
I think a new around the walls layout would be better for the OP! I would do that if and when I start again!
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
Ballast turnouts (careful near the throwbar!!!) to keep them in place. Never use adhesives. That's been the posted wisdom here and on other fora for donkeys' years.
If you would like, solder them at each end to get positive continuity and coverage. That will help to keep them in place....as well as the ballast. You can always take a cut-off disk to the joiners later and, with the item secure on a bench, heat the solder and slide the now half-joiners off. Dress up the rails with a needle file, and you'll be able to use the turnout once again.
Or, solder feeders to the bottoms of several rails and just use sliding joiners for alignment.
Trainzman2435NONE of the turnouts would come up without destroying them totally. Needless to say i know have to re purchase 6 #6 turnouts and 1 double crossover or scrap the layout rehab and start a new around the wall shelf layout....Either way it was a very expensive lesson to learn.
There might be a third alternative, and perhaps worth trying particularly if the old layout would be scrapped due to this problem: regard the seemingly permanently mounted-onto-plywood turnouts and crossovers almost as you would the old TruScale HO track: just a thick version of roadbed and then subroadbed.
Use a jig saw to cut the turnouts and crossovers out from the layout plywood and all. Then trim the plywood as close as you can to the edge of the Kato track. It should be possible to scrape out the 2" foam deep enough so that the plywood can settle in and the track can be the same height as that laid on the 2" foam directly.
I am a great believer in using adhesive caulk to lay track (sectional track not integral track such as Kato and other makes) but I do take special precautions with turnouts. It takes very little caulk, really just at the 3 extreme ends of the turnout, to hold a turnout in place after all.
I have also given clinics on nonpermanent layouts for beginners and show how bits of transfer tape (very thin double sided tape) can be used to hold track in place yet be easily pulled up. There are even brands of thin double sided tape "dots" that can hold Kato Unitrack in place -- just applied at the edges of the plastic roadbed.
Dave Nelson
I am a strong advocate of gluing track down wih adhesive stronger than painters caulk.
But I would never use a silicone based product.
However, I have always said that I don't glue down turnouts. In my case not so much about re-use as about maintenance, and not fouling operating parts.
I do solder all my rail joints. The adjacent track, soldered joints and just two or three track nails seems to hold turnouts in place just fine.
As it turned out, I was able to save every unballasted turnout from my old layout.
From the track I was only able to salvage the rail........
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I am a strong advocate of gluing track down wih adhesive stronger than painters caulk. But I would never use a silicone based product. However, I have always said that I don't glue down turnouts. In my case not so much about re-use as about maintenance, and not fouling operating parts. I do solder all my rail joints. The adjacent track, soldered joints and just two or three track nails seems to hold turnouts in place just fine. As it turned out, I was able to save every unballasted turnout from my old layout. From the track I was only able to salvage the rail........ Sheldon
rrebell ATLANTIC CENTRAL I am a strong advocate of gluing track down wih adhesive stronger than painters caulk. But I would never use a silicone based product. However, I have always said that I don't glue down turnouts. In my case not so much about re-use as about maintenance, and not fouling operating parts. I do solder all my rail joints. The adjacent track, soldered joints and just two or three track nails seems to hold turnouts in place just fine. As it turned out, I was able to save every unballasted turnout from my old layout. From the track I was only able to salvage the rail........ Sheldon No one would ever suggest painters caulk (even for painting, too crumblng) or silicon caulk. The best is siloconized latex caulk.
No one would ever suggest painters caulk (even for painting, too crumblng) or silicon caulk. The best is siloconized latex caulk.
Are you thinking of painters putty? That's not caulk, it's putty.........
Well, just my view, but Alex Plus is nothing more than painters caulk, and lots of people on here swear by it for laying track.
In my work in the construction field, we only use caulk like Alex Plus for non stress, non adhesive applications, like paint bridge applications.
When we want to "glue" something, like a tub surround, counter back splash, etc, we use Phenoseal or PolySeamSeal because they are adhesive and caulk in one, and do a better job, and are easier to work with than any silicone product.
When we want to caulk in siding (real wood siding, cement board siding) we use OSI Quad.
I've placed dabs of caulk, latex, not very adhesive, on the last four or five ties of each leg of a turnout. It doesn't interfere with the operation and it takes very little prying to loosen. A little spray of water helps.
- Douglas
Doughless I've placed dabs of caulk, latex, not very adhesive, on the last four or five ties of each leg of a turnout. It doesn't interfere with the operation and it takes very little prying to loosen. A little spray of water helps.
As I have explained in several threads recently, since it seems to be a popular topic, I glue my track down with adhesive caulk, like PolySeamSeal.
BUT I do not put any under turnouts, I simply use three or four track nails and let the adjoining track hold them in place.
I don't lay track on cork or foam - too soft for my tastes. I prefer homasote roadbed of one sort or another.
dknelson I have also given clinics on nonpermanent layouts for beginners and show how bits of transfer tape (very thin double sided tape) can be used to hold track in place yet be easily pulled up. There are even brands of thin double sided tape "dots" that can hold Kato Unitrack in place -- just applied at the edges of the plastic roadbed. Dave Nelson
Dave, sounds a useful alternative for me. Do you have a recommendation on the transfer tape or two sided tape? Thanks!
IDRick Dave, sounds a useful alternative for me. Do you have a recommendation on the transfer tape or two sided tape? Thanks!
Sure. I first learned of it on a video on the MR website, or perhaps MR Video Plus. Wood was being used to scratchbuild something and it was being mounted on cardstock using transfer tape. The advantage of the transfer tape is that there would be nothing liquid like glue to warp the cardstock or the wood.
The thing is, there are many double sided tapes but most of them are thick. Some double sided tapes are actually foam and must be almost 1/16" thick. This transfer tape is thin, thin like Scotch tape is thin. I think it is the same stuff as the laser cut kit folks use for peal and stick parts.
I think they recommended 3M brand in that video so I looked for it in office supplies and could not find a dealer. Finally found one place that would order it for me IF I ordered an entire case. I said I will have to think about that. All I wanted was one roll after all. Turns out I was looking in the wrong place.
I just happened to luck upon finding it for sale at an art supply store. 3M brand, 3/4" wide and the order number is 21887. I think that roll cost about $19 (so think what that case would have cost!). The roll is about the size of a roll of masking tape so it should last a long long time. I then found a one inch wide roll at a different art supply store, perhaps Dick Blick?, and it was from "Art Supply Enterprises" and had the brand name Art Alternatives. I bought it too. It too is very thin tape, and very high tack.
Used for large surfaces the thing about transfer tape is, you really get one chance to get it right as it is intensely sticky. It is interesting how many uses I found for the stuff however.
I used Glue Dots in my clinic about temporary train set track that wouldn't move or fall part until you wanted it to. I found Glue Dots at Michaels crafts near other adhesives. It comes in sheets, in a small clear package a liittle larger than baseball cards. I got "Ultra Thin" and the maker is -- no kidding -- Glue Dots International. The dots I got are about the size of the fingernail on your little finger. They had various dot sizes and thicknesses too. It takes a little practice to get the dot off the sheet. And they are clear and easy to misplace if you aren't careful.
If there's no way to resuse the turnouts, I also suggest starting over. You can apply the lessons learned and move on. You'd be amazed at how much faster and easer a new layout can go when you avoid previous errors.