As for Rapido, their stuff looks great.
But like a few others have commented, I'm still waiting for something I just have to have.
The new box cars look nice, but I only have a limited appetite for $50 rtr freight cars.
I'm not replacing my 6 RDC's with $300 ones, for several reasons.
Long before Rapido, I already have 15 ALCO FA/FB locos of suitable detail and running quality.
Little else they have made is of any interest, pre order on not.
Sometimes these discussions of a particular high end brand remind me of the old reasons for freelancing, they made it, so I should buy one and find a use for it just because it is so great and is what is available.
No, but if they do make something I really want, that I don't already have, price will not be a limiting factor.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd, despite the wealth of better models today, and better information, we are a long way from having "everything", or knowing "everything", so compromises still must be made, and standins used, and history slightly altered....... I'm in this to have fun, not film a documentary....... Sheldon
Compromise to one degree or another is a given in this hobby.
The documentary comment comes off as sounding somewhat intolerant of other aspects of the hobby and isn't fair to those who "have fun" with models that are good matches to real freight cars. There should be room in the hobby to have fun in many ways including free lancing, protolancings and whole range across the spectrum.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 ATLANTIC CENTRAL And, despite the wealth of better models today, and better information, we are a long way from having "everything", or knowing "everything", so compromises still must be made, and standins used, and history slightly altered....... I'm in this to have fun, not film a documentary....... Sheldon Compromise to one degree or another is a given in this hobby. The documentary comment isn't really fair to those who "have fun" with models that are good matches to real freight cars. With your opinion worn on your sleeve regularly here, it would be difficult to not know what it is on a myriad of topics. I think it would be fair to say there is room in the hobby for free lancers and a host of others - peace out.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And, despite the wealth of better models today, and better information, we are a long way from having "everything", or knowing "everything", so compromises still must be made, and standins used, and history slightly altered....... I'm in this to have fun, not film a documentary....... Sheldon
The documentary comment isn't really fair to those who "have fun" with models that are good matches to real freight cars. With your opinion worn on your sleeve regularly here, it would be difficult to not know what it is on a myriad of topics. I think it would be fair to say there is room in the hobby for free lancers and a host of others - peace out.
I will say again, I like accurate well detailed models, I have lots of them. I have no problem with modelers who are picky about accuracy. The level of accuracy and detail of any one given model has nothing to do with my reasons for freelancing.
In fact, a pretty high percentage of my models with ATLANTIC CENTRAL on the side of them are accurate models of some prototype car or locomotive that existed. I have my share from Kadee, FoxValley, Intermoutain, Genesis, Spectrum (yes, most are very accurate), BLI, Spring Mills Depot, Proto2000, Branchline, F&C, and others.
But as explained before, I'm not holding out or holding off for every model on the layout to be museum level, and I'm not replacing suitable "stand ins" or "close enoughs" every time something new comes out.
And, as explained before, in the 1953 era I model, accurate models are fewer, and spoting features are often more subtle than more modern equipment needed by those who model more recent times, also a point I have made before and agree that modeling some newer stuff might require different standards even for me.
And, when it comes to passenger cars I think selective compression is a valid and useful tool just like it is with structures and scenery.
And my layout theme requires 1000 freight cars for the desired operating sessions - compromise to one degree or another is a given in this hobby.
I know the trend is smaller layouts with higher levels of detail and accuracy, that's fine. I'm not interested in the trend. I'm interested in 30 train operating sessions with 35-50 car trains on a 1500 sq ft layout. And I'm interested in being able to display run 4 or 5 of those trains at once.
For that, a few cars are not going to have brake rigging, or every rivet perfect........
You are welcome to compromise where you see fit, I will do the same, I was simply replying to Kevin and his lament regarding the lack of freelance modeling today.
I am a freelancer. I have a fictitous railroad. I have no reason to wait for any type of model to be produced.
I'll buy what is on the shelf, in stock on line, or what somebody else no longer wants.
The criteria for what I buy stems from the railroad having a certain theme, era, and fictitous background. Shortlines buy leftovers. Any Atlas loco with generic details usually works. Currently, I happen to love Intermountain U18Bs.
Any boxcar will work, any tank car, gondola, covered hopper, etc. As long as it is era correct, has fine details, and I use it for the commodity or purpose it is intended for, its all good.
Having said that, I do have fun deviating from the plan. Watching a Big-Boy or Mallett run on the layout would be a lot more fun than watching a Ten Wheeler.
Never considered pre-ordering anything. I don't care that much about replicating specific equipment, yet I've enjoyed the hobby for 40 years.
- Douglas
Rapido must be out of their minds charging $699 /w DCC Sound for that Royal Hudson a plastic loco. Holy crap there is no way I am spending that kind of money on one loco. LOL
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Motley Rapido must be out of their minds charging $699 /w DCC Sound for that Royal Hudson a plastic loco. Holy crap there is no way I am spending that kind of money on one loco. LOL
From what I can tell they did way better than they could have imagined on the pre-orders alone, so I am happy for them. I bought two, I must be really crazy.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
riogrande5761There should be room in the hobby to have fun in many ways including free lancing, protolancings and whole range across the spectrum.
I agree, I have a C&O 2-10-4 on the layout because it is one of those engines I love and wanted. It doesn't fit my Canadian Pacific theme, however, if you need a story here it is. When Canada declared war on Germany in 1939, President Roosevelt being a good neighbour said to industry give them whatever they need and that included a lot of railroad equipment. So that is how I get away with running all the imported stuff.
MotleyRapido must be out of their minds charging $699 /w DCC Sound for that Royal Hudson a plastic loco....
That's one way of looking at things. However, I've seen brass locomotives, like this one, belonging to a good friend....
...that is as good a runner as any HO loco I've seen, steam or diesel, and is, I would think, detailed to a degree comparable to that of Rapido's Royal Hudson. However, it is straight DC, with no lighting and yet cost, when bought new, an amount approaching $2,000.00 Cdn.
The brass over plastic comparisons aren't really valid anymore, given what's now possible in plastic.
One of the features that would entice me to buy one of Rapido's smaller steam locos, besides their appropriateness to the nature of my layout, is their all-wheel drive mechanism, very similar to that found in current-day models of diesels.
Wayne
BATMAN I bought two, I must be really crazy.
I bought only one as I model the New York Central/PRR/B&O but that engine is so exquisite I simply had to have one
doctorwayneThe brass over plastic comparisons aren't really valid anymore, given what's now possible in plastic.
I preordered the Royal Hudson when it was first announced. The "Street Price" is closer to $550-575. Because I preordered I was guaranteed the announced selling price of $535.
I have preordered quite a few locomotives this way and in some cases, such as the Broadway Limited NYC streamlined Hudson, which took over five years to finally come to fruition, I was still "locked-in" to the original price.
Regarding the $700 MSRP of the Royal Hudson, as Wayne points out, that is a bargain, IMHO! A custom paint job such as the Hudson has would run you at least $350 alone if you had a bare brass model. Add a sound decoder and two speakers (the Rapido model has a speaker under the stack!) the lighting, which most brass engines do not have and the cost of alternatives begins to add up.
https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/066909/HO-Brass-Van-Hobbies-VH-105-CPR-CP-Canadian-Pacific-4-6-4-Late-Run-H1a-Royal-Hudson-2800-Blue-Boiler-w-Smoke-Deflectors
CPR_4-6-4 by Edmund, on Flickr
CPR_4-6-4T by Edmund, on Flickr
CPR_4-6-4r by Edmund, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
The Royal Hudson has a lot of things you can push buttons to control. The duel speakers of one up front plus the one in the tender which you can control are great but I really like the inspection light a lot that lights up the ground beneath the cab and the white or green marker lights. The whole thing is just awesome. If you like taking photos of the layout the Hudson sure gives you variety as far as poses go.
BATMANIf you like taking photos of the layout the Hudson sure gives you variety as far as poses go.
.
Please share some of these pictures of your Royal Hudsons with us.
I would love to see how great these magnificent models can look in photographs.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I could have sworn Jason said my Hudsons would do this but I guess I just can't find that button.
Unless there was a transporter accident and it was the evil Shron talking.
They will be discounted by the usual amount at retailers. My pre-order with Factory Direct has a list price substantially below the initial listings put out by Rapido. Even so, they'll be less than half of what brass is new, every bit as accurate, better drives, and with a sound decoder and speaker to boot.
SeeYou190Please share some of these pictures of your Royal Hudsons with us.
Nothing worth showing yet, but they are coming. My Nikon D5000 is doing funny things and my Daughter has gone away to University and she is the one that has taken all the photography courses. I'm working on it though.
Paul3Brakie,What about the Rapido SW1200's?
Paul, I already have several Proto switchers,some Atlas Alco switchers and Athearn SW1500s and SW7 so,the Rapido SW1200 was of no interest to me.
As I stated the GMD-1 caught my eye because its a unique engine but,not common enough for wide use by short lines and terminal switching roads.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
selector Motley Rapido must be out of their minds charging $699 /w DCC Sound for that Royal Hudson a plastic loco. Holy crap there is no way I am spending that kind of money on one loco. LOL They will be discounted by the usual amount at retailers. My pre-order with Factory Direct has a list price substantially below the initial listings put out by Rapido. Even so, they'll be less than half of what brass is new, every bit as accurate, better drives, and with a sound decoder and speaker to boot.
I also paid well below retail.
This has been a very interesting thread to read, and some of you have summarized the situation re: preorders and why they are necessary very well. Though I am a bit disappointed some people still think we just make Canadian stuff. Our next two locomotive shipments to come from the factories are the RS-11 and the B36-7, and two of our next three freight car shipments are NP and USRA prototypes. We make a lot of US models these days.
Something we're going to try with an announcement later this year is what we did with the N scale TurboTrain. We are going to announce it before cutting the tooling, and offer a 5% early buy discount to anyone that orders one through us or their hobby shop before the early buy deadline.
At that point, if the pre-orders have covered the tooling costs, we go ahead and start the tooling. If not, we say "sorry we tried!" and move on. We don't ask for any funds in advance in these situations - we just know from the preorders that we will sell enough for the project to hit the black.
With the N TurboTrain, we honestly had no idea if there was any demand. We were delighted by the response and the project was a success for us.
In most cases, though, we announce a project long after the tooling has been started.
-Jason
Jason Shron - President - Rapido Trains Inc. - RapidoTrains.comMy HO scale Kingston Sub layout: Facebook.com/KingstonSub
Long after the tooling has been started...which is a risk.
Another manufacturer did a line of cabeese that way...my understanding is only one of the caboose models ever really paid off the tooling and made reasonable profit for the investment. The others are still in the process of paying off the tooling costs.
Regarding freelancing or protolancing, well I am sorta doing it but differently. I would never have my own railroad, but I found a scarce brass model, that is the correct version, and the decals for it, and am having a pro do the paint job, and it plausibly could show up anywhere in Central PA or New York. The prototype is part of a fleet of survivors still running, but reaching the end at nearly 48 years of service pulling freight. The former Cartier big M-636's may have just had their last summer operating in solid sets, if at all.
John
I do have to admit, when I first started this thread, I didn't mean to open the pre-ordering can of worms, only to let potential canadian ten-wheeler buyers to speak now or forever hold their peace.
Either way, I get why preordering is a necessary evil in the hobby these days and that these models are not meant to appeal to everybody. I just love the looks of the D10 and was really excited when they were initially announce and would be very dissappointed for them not to go forward after all these years of waiting.
Another thing that bugs me is when people dismiss them since the Hudsons have problems. Though I didn't get one, you gotta cut rapido some slack. Even though they are masters at freight and passenger cars and diesels, steam is its own category in design and manufacturing. And given that the hudsons were a first, of course there are going to be problems. I know it is frustrating to pay so much and have to send them back but Rapido appears to be bent on getting things right. So if your only going to pick up the ten wheelers when all reviews are 100%, you probably won't be able to pick them up at all.
Just my
Lone Geep
\
Rapido This has been a very interesting thread to read, and some of you have summarized the situation re: preorders and why they are necessary very well. Though I am a bit disappointed some people still think we just make Canadian stuff. Our next two locomotive shipments to come from the factories are the RS-11 and the B36-7, and two of our next three freight car shipments are NP and USRA prototypes. We make a lot of US models these days. Something we're going to try with an announcement later this year is what we did with the N scale TurboTrain. We are going to announce it before cutting the tooling, and offer a 5% early buy discount to anyone that orders one through us or their hobby shop before the early buy deadline. At that point, if the pre-orders have covered the tooling costs, we go ahead and start the tooling. If not, we say "sorry we tried!" and move on. We don't ask for any funds in advance in these situations - we just know from the preorders that we will sell enough for the project to hit the black. With the N TurboTrain, we honestly had no idea if there was any demand. We were delighted by the response and the project was a success for us. In most cases, though, we announce a project long after the tooling has been started. -Jason
Jason,
Not that I am anyone special, but I did spend some time in this business back in the day. I knew Lee Riley before AHM or Bachmann, etc.
I understand the business and manufacturing climate you are up against and think you are doing a great job. I understand it is not like back in the day for many reasons.
I have seen your product and it is all amazing. I have explained earlier my own needs and wants, but I will add a few more thoughts.
You came out with very nice ALCO FA models, but thinking only as a customer, and my personal interest in that prototype (I model a time when they were pretty new), I would never buy an FA, or EMD F unit, without being able to buy matching B units at the same time. It's just a non starter for me.
And I model in a style that requires little variety and lots of quantity. I am trying to capture that big railroad feel in one location, using a 1500 sq ft basement to only model one sub division terminal in a small city and the few miles in and out of that terminal.
So I don't want one each of 60 locos, I want 4 each of 15 locos, or in the case of ALCO FA's, I have 3 ABBA sets, and 1 ABA set.
The challenge for modelers and manufacturers is product availability. At one time manufacturers, wholesalers, and dealers shared the cost of standing inventories to keep product available a fair percentage of the time. We know what happened there....
I often wonder if people loose interest in this hobby these days because of the challenges with acquiring the models that interest them? Or more importantly, the models they need to achieve some sense of continuity.
What good is is half a passenger train? Or no reasonable loco for that beautiful set of passenger cars?
Crude and incorrect as they might have been, Athearn always had B&O F7's to go with those streamlined and heavyweight B&O passenger cars..........
So before this gets to long, keep up the good work and good luck with all your projects.
As for those who wax enthusiastic about a new model, but don't follow up with an order, I found myself doing that with a pair of Rapido FA2s I wanted rather badly.
At the time that the preordering deadline fell, I was potentially facing an imminent "right-sizing" at work that affected over 6,000 of us. In the face of that, I felt it would be irresponsible to commit to $600+ in hobby purchases.
Fortunately, my position survived that round. Assuming that all is still good when that batch of FA2s is released, I'll have to try to find someone who bought them for open stock.
Things seem settled enough, now, that I should feel comfortable about ordering that CN H-6-g I'd like.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
fmilhaupt As for those who wax enthusiastic about a new model, but don't follow up with an order, I found myself doing that with a pair of Rapido FA2s I wanted rather badly. At the time that the preordering deadline fell, I was potentially facing an imminent "right-sizing" at work that affected over 6,000 of us. In the face of that, I felt it would be irresponsible to commit to $600+ in hobby purchases. Fortunately, my position survived that round. Assuming that all is still good when that batch of FA2s is released, I'll have to try to find someone who bought them for open stock. Things seem settled enough, now, that I should feel comfortable about ordering that CN H-6-g I'd like.
6000 people? Wow, I've never worked anywhere that employed 600 people. Happily self employed most of my life.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL6000 people?
I work for a company with nearly 60,000 employees. I cannot imagine working for myself.
At my job, I just have a job to do. I would never want to run a business and do a job. My oldest daughter and her husband are self employed. It looks like self-imprisonment to me.
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL 6000 people? . I work for a company with nearly 60,000 employees. I cannot imagine working for myself. . At my job, I just have a job to do. I would never want to run a business and do a job. My oldest daughter and her husband are self employed. It looks like self-imprisonment to me. . -Kevin .
ATLANTIC CENTRAL 6000 people?
My father helped me start my first business when I was only 23, selling MATCO TOOLS.
That spoiled me, it was hard to take orders from stupid people, or follow stupid rules after that.
I did work a few other places for short periods of time after I stopped selling tools, but never large companies, and never for longer than a few years.
Been doing what I do now for 20 plus years, happy as a clam. Only me, one employee, and a few sub contractors. I design homes, additions and renovations, restore historic properties, and do custom remodeling.
You can't imagine being self employed, I can't imagine being away from home all the time......
I don't know how they do it now, but when I was in high school we were put in classes with others of similar academic abilities.
Years later I learned the A students make the best workers. You tell them what needs to me done and they do it.
The B students make the best managers. They realize everything isn't perfect and you have to be flexible.
The C students?
They own the company.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
When I was in grade ten I started working full time at a city-owned golf course making what city employees made. Before I had even left high school I had started buying property to rent out. I would have to ride my bicycle to show prospective new tenants the places and do repairs and stuff.
Once out of high school I went to work for the Federal Government and moved around to different jobs within the Federal Government that looked interesting and during that time I came up with an idea that turned out to be a license to print money. You have heard of "student painters" where students work painting houses for summer employment, well I wondered if starting a student fencing company would work. I got a good friend involved and we went from 1 to 16 employees in the wink of an eye. Built cedar fencing mostly in all the new subdivisions that were popping up everywhere. I can't tell you how much I hated running a company and dealing with all that it entailed. The money flowed in, but lying in bed at night thinking about all the things I had to do the next day was not for me and I walked away and left the company to my good friend that ran it for years until he packed it in as well, he made a lot of money.
Somewhere along the way, I had turned all my rental properties over to a management company and that was a really good decision as I could hop on a plane and go away without having to worry about it.
In the mid-eighties, I found the job with the feds I loved. There were 23 positions and only about ten were ever permanently filled with the same guys. Most people could not handle the pace and other than the same ten guys that could, the turnover was high in those other slots. We were treated well, they would do a lot to keep us happy just so we would stay on.
I got paid well, 15 sick days a year and had 8 weeks of vacation every year in my last 10 years. I retired ten years ago and my after-tax pension is about $5000.00 a month and is indexed for inflation. I get full extended medical that pays for all the things that the health care system doesn't and it all carries on for my wife until she dies if I go first.
I could tell my boss I was taking two months off and go and get on a plane and be on a beach later that day in Hawaii. I think you needed to be a person where nothing would rattle you especially if it was beyond your control. I saw dozens of managers destroyed from the stress which I did not suffer from in the least. The best part was I never thought for a second about things I had to do the next day. The best job ever.
BigDaddy I don't know how they do it now, but when I was in high school we were put in classes with others of similar academic abilities. Years later I learned the A students make the best workers. You tell them what needs to me done and they do it. The B students make the best managers. They realize everything isn't perfect and you have to be flexible. The C students? They own the company.
I got A's, B's and C's depending on the subject, but I never got a college degree......
Graduated high school on a Saturday with 4 credits in drafting and architecture, yes our high school had a class in architecture, and started a job on Monday as a draftsman in a small engineering office.
The electrical engineer took me under his wing and taught me everything I was drawing for him.
The rest of the resume is very long, I never hesitated to take a new opportunity to advance and learn something different.
I only tried one time to work for a large company, after four days I could not stand being treated like a child, I quit, and took another job I had been offered at the same time.
And for 30 out of 44 adult working years I have been self employed.
I was a "B" student except in PE, I always got an "A".
I remember sitting at a red left-turn light and my kid was in the back seat still in a car seat at the time and he said to me "Dad how come we live in such a nice house and you just loaded aeroplanes for a living"? I remember smiling and telling him the exact same thing that my Dad had said to me when I was little. It is not how much you make, it is what you do with it that makes the difference. I had come full circle.
I admire the many paths that different folks have taken to arrive where they are in model railroading. It has always been a hobby for me dating back to the age of seven. I have always been a very driven person, high school grad age 16, Bachelors degree Biology age 19, MD age 22. I never had a lot of spare time, but managed to assemble Blue Box kits and now have an 11 x 17 HO layout in my shop. The challenge for me has been how to airbrush, how to wire a dcc layout, etc. We all have our challenges, that is what makes life interesting.I enjoy reading all of these posts and try to learn something from all of them.
I do not preorder anything. I like reading reviews. Almost anything can be bought at a discount through outfits like M.B. Klein or even better at train shows.I have five brass locos, but most of my stock is Athearn, Atlas, Broadway Limited, and MTH.