I would just fill the existing pool with sand run a rim joist around the pool room then set the floor joists place the underlayment and install some vents and a HVAC system lay the flooring and bild your layout. I have had a home with a pool and every one is correct in that a pool does not add much value when selling a home, however the Tax man likes it and then it has lots of value.
I am very late to this discussion, but I think the room was purpose-built for the previous/current owners, and that it is probably best left that way. Altered, it will be even harder to sell than it is at present, or when converted to a layout room. About the only good would be if a prospective buyer said to herself, "Hmm, if we put up a wall right here, and a powder room over there...," you might be playing on that person's future plans and dreams. If not, it is what is is...to replay that lamentably iffy and trite logic.
It comes down to that decision tree, or matrix, where you place weights on the alternatives and factors and (hope you) rule out the very worst of the bunch. If a large train room is a gotta have, and not just a great to have, then assign it a hefty weight. What else should be done to the home so that you can expect to live comfortably and safely in it for, oh, the next 20 years? Can you afford that and redo the 'train' room?
I might be interested in one of the pool tables.
One thing to note from my years of investing in real estate is to not take away a potential asset that can be hidden. Hiding said pool would cost way less too. Now something was said about dog rehab too, could be the pool room could be tax deductable, at least in part.
Well, one way to look at this is to ask, what is the cost of removing the pool to properly convert the space to other uses, and what is the cost of building a room that large from scratch?
Personally, I'd think you'd be ahead economically by buying that house, removing the pool totally and converting the room to other uses, than buying another house and adding a finished room that size, especially with the finished wood. (does the room have HVAC?)
And how many other houses have a garage with a lift?
Of course, can OP or prospective buyer get by without having a room that large? And a neat garage? Another house might be just fine and more marketable.
When we were looking for a house here in Georgia, many have pools and we didn't want one. Realtor said the typical cost of removing an outdoor pool, breaking up the concrete/liner and hauling them off, filling in the hole and planting turf was about $10,000. I assume it would be more expensive in Canada. Maybe that's a low number, but it seems to me that building a 49 x 27 finished room with an expensive ceiling from the ground up (including lot prep) would cost way more than removing the pool and installing a floor, electrical outlets, and HVAC in an exisiting room. JMO.
- Douglas
BATMAN This is the third house the wife and I really like that has had an indoor pool. Neither one of us wants a pool, however, we really like this house a lot. My question is, could this pool room have the pool drained and a floor built over the pool and covering the entire room making it my trainroom/mancave. Seems easy enough but what is it I am not thinking about? We want to leave it so when we sell, a perspective buyer can retun it to being a pool room again by simply removing the floor.
This is the third house the wife and I really like that has had an indoor pool. Neither one of us wants a pool, however, we really like this house a lot. My question is, could this pool room have the pool drained and a floor built over the pool and covering the entire room making it my trainroom/mancave. Seems easy enough but what is it I am not thinking about? We want to leave it so when we sell, a perspective buyer can retun it to being a pool room again by simply removing the floor.
Buying a house with an indoor pool makes no sense to me unless you are looking for a house with an indoor pool.
The fact of the matter is that most people aren't looking for a house with an outdoor in-ground pool, let alone a house with an indoor pool.
Down here in Chicago, most people don't have outdoor in-ground pools because the usage time is limited to June-August for the most part. Up in Canada, the usage time for an outdoor pool would seem to be even more limited. Of course, an indoor pool can be used year-round, but again how many people are looking for a house with a pool.
So, the resale market will be limited. I wouldn't do it unless you are looking for an indoor pool which you say you aren't. My advice is, don't do it and keep looking.
Rich
Alton Junction
mobilman44 I guess we are all anxious to see if the OP bids on the house or not. Seeing that garage (with lift) would be enough for me, and the indoor pool would go a long way to keeping a guy fit over the years.
I guess we are all anxious to see if the OP bids on the house or not. Seeing that garage (with lift) would be enough for me, and the indoor pool would go a long way to keeping a guy fit over the years.
That assumes one is motivated to get in the pool.........
Sheldon
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
The main cost of an indoor pool is ventilation, alot of the costs of an outdoor pool don't exist like cover and insurance can be less as well as pool treatments. If it has been listed for awhile, do some digging around, you may find you can buy it for less, especially if they are paying fees for the place like a motgage.
rrinker I don't think I spend $800 in chemicals over TWO years, and my pool is outdoors and about 45,000 gallons. MAYBE $300 in chemicals - $150 in chlorine, $100 in shock, one bag of filter media easily lasts a full season and then some - usually less than $50 for that. I have to backwash 3 times in a season. Fresh media when opening in the spring, a week or two in it needs a backwash as it cleans all the accumulated gunk out, and then once more in the middle of summer which is good until it's time to backwash, clean out, and drain the pool for closing. Doesn't work out because I usually buy stuff in bulk, at significant savings - ie getting a 50 pound bucket of chlorine which lasts two seasons usually saves $1/lb over buying smaller quantities, same with the shock. If you don't want a pool, you don't want a pool, but the costs are often exaggerated. Mine would get more use if I had younger kids that still lived with me. For once this week it is not raining, think I'm going to out to the pool now. I've come up with some good ideas for both a layout design and my electronics while floating around and relaxing in the pool. --Randy
I don't think I spend $800 in chemicals over TWO years, and my pool is outdoors and about 45,000 gallons. MAYBE $300 in chemicals - $150 in chlorine, $100 in shock, one bag of filter media easily lasts a full season and then some - usually less than $50 for that. I have to backwash 3 times in a season. Fresh media when opening in the spring, a week or two in it needs a backwash as it cleans all the accumulated gunk out, and then once more in the middle of summer which is good until it's time to backwash, clean out, and drain the pool for closing.
Doesn't work out because I usually buy stuff in bulk, at significant savings - ie getting a 50 pound bucket of chlorine which lasts two seasons usually saves $1/lb over buying smaller quantities, same with the shock.
If you don't want a pool, you don't want a pool, but the costs are often exaggerated. Mine would get more use if I had younger kids that still lived with me. For once this week it is not raining, think I'm going to out to the pool now. I've come up with some good ideas for both a layout design and my electronics while floating around and relaxing in the pool.
--Randy
Randy, what kind of winter cover do you use? I use a whole bag of filter media just getting g the pool cleaned up in spring, usually backwash every other day for a week. My first trip to the pool store every spring is always $500, at least in recent times.
We have e a mesh safety cover and the pool is really dirty in the spring. First step, pour in 25 lbs of shock.....
But in the last few years we really only opened the pool for the grand kids. My wife once loved the pool, but her rheumatoid arthritis now prevents her from getting in the pool. 85 degree water makes her joints hurt worse.
When it was new, it was cheaper and easier to run. With age, it just cost more and more, and got used less and less.
But it and the house will be on the market soon..........and the cover is staying on it for now.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
No reason that my opinoin is better than anyone elses, but as long as you're not paying more for the pool I'd definitely go for the house and turn it into a train room. Possibly by putting in some sand and decking over, but more likely just filling it in, doing away with it and putting down hardwood.
It really does sound like a pool is similar to a boat "A big hole you pour money into". Compare that to a big finished room with hardwood floor which -once trains are removed- the next owner can envsion as a large entertainment space and I think you know which is a better choice.
Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad for Chicago Trainspotting and Budget Model Railroading.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL thought Brent explained pretty clearly that this pool is in a house they are considering, that otherwise is what they are looking for?
If you are talking about his opening post, then pretty clear it was not, or was I supposed to read between the lines. Cheers.
Anyway, if this is a house Brent is considering, personally I'd keep looking and find a house that has something more ideal for a layout.
That's my 5 cents worth.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Brent,
Here in Maryland, our outdoor pool typically had the following annual costs, in US dollars:
Chemicals, including filter media $800
Electric $600
Seasonal repairs $300
Propane for heater $1500
$3200 each season........
Sometimes a little less, sometimes big repairs. In the last 6 years we have replaced the heater ($1500) the filter ($400) the pump ($200), and the next owner will be buying a cover real soon.....
I supplied all the labor for these repairs, and I open, close and maintain the pool myself, no "pool service". But I know all the tricks. First one is buy and automatic pool cleaner, second is run the filter 24/7.
Our pool is about 20' x 50', 30,000 gallons.
I would need the second garage for my tools..........so the pool would have to go....
Okay, another solution is to use this hobby garage that is separate from the main garage but still connected to the house which is a must for me for a trainroom. It is 34' x 19'
The pool room is 49' x 27' We are trying to find out what the cost to maintain a pool like this would be, it would get used but not a lot. I can just see it now working out to a $100.00 a swim over a year. The wife could use it for Hydrotherapy for rehabbing dogs.
The house has been for sale a long time because of the pool, lots to think about.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Ok, the solution may be to keep the plugs in the pool, put in tarps and fill said pool with somrthing like dirt or sand (sand may be best as you can valcum it out). Run your joists over it sitting on dense foam, ply over the top and train room is had. This will be a floating floor but being that heavy it won't move and you can bring it back to pool at any time. In fact you may have more buyers if you sell as they have two options for the room.
NittanyLion ATLANTIC CENTRAL I cant speak for the Pacific Northwest of Canada where Brent is, but here in the Mid Atlantic of the USA, pools do not generally ad value to your property. Many people do not want them, they don't want the cost or the liablity. So because it narrows your buyer pool, it often does nothing to increase your property value. One of the houses we just looked at (Fairfax County), like, three days ago had a pool. Our realtor pointed it out as a leverage point to come down in price because it is going to be harder for them to sell. Although she then said "but...then you're saddled with a pool when you want to sell it too." My basic understanding around here is garage = higher price pool = lower price
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I cant speak for the Pacific Northwest of Canada where Brent is, but here in the Mid Atlantic of the USA, pools do not generally ad value to your property. Many people do not want them, they don't want the cost or the liablity. So because it narrows your buyer pool, it often does nothing to increase your property value.
I cant speak for the Pacific Northwest of Canada where Brent is, but here in the Mid Atlantic of the USA, pools do not generally ad value to your property. Many people do not want them, they don't want the cost or the liablity. So because it narrows your buyer pool, it often does nothing to increase your property value.
One of the houses we just looked at (Fairfax County), like, three days ago had a pool. Our realtor pointed it out as a leverage point to come down in price because it is going to be harder for them to sell. Although she then said "but...then you're saddled with a pool when you want to sell it too."
My basic understanding around here is garage = higher price pool = lower price
Exactly, at our old house we are about to put on the market, the 6 car capable garage with the heated and cooled, once 1000 sq ft train room above will be a very attractive feature. At best the pool will be a neutral feature....
As an experienced residential designer and carpenter, I will not presume from one photo and 2,600 miles away to know the best choice to build a floor over the pool or to fill it in. But it can be done.
Brent. I did some research and found your solution.
Simpson WPI414 Top Flange l-joist Hanger-G90 Galvanized.
Check it out! This piece of Hardware will simplify everything.
TF
As long as your joists are put in tight they ain't going anywhere.
Worked on job decades ago, I was the concrete contractor, not the general. The house was for the William Oster ( blenders, microwaves, kitchen appliances,etc) family, on Lake Beulah, WI. ( Town of East Troy) their summer home.
The GC removed all of the pump and filter equipment, filled the pool with clean stone, compacted in layers, to the level of the floor around the pool, put down a heavy moisture barrier ( I forget the name of it, it was a heavy black reinforced paper with plastic on one side), and we poured a new floor over the top, saw cut it into 10' squares.
I don't know what the GC did with the plugs. Ground water is not an issue in the area, and I don't remember any type of sump pump piping or a crock.
They didn't want the maintainence hassle any more, and besides, they are on a lake with a nice beach.
I've never been back to see how it has held up. We were back there a couple of years later to do some sidewalks, and at that time, all was good with the new floor and room.
Good luck Brent with whatever you decide.
Mike.
My You Tube
That room is way too nice to destroy. I'd think it could be turned into a nice extra family room or game room if the pool wasn't there, and that functionality would add more value than the pool, IMO.
I say if filling it in with sand will keep the pool intact, that's a good solution. Seems like it can be readily unfilled and touched up if somebody really wanted a pool.
I would assume that creating a level floor would be a matter of bridging the pool with joists resting on top of the concrete floor, although it would be raised at least 10 inches up from the concrete because of the joists and subfloor. Looks like you have the ceiling height, but the windows would be off and you'd have to step down to use the doors.
I assume the photo is taken from a door going into the house. In which case, build a dogbone or E or G shaped layout along the left side with turnback loops at the doors where you could step down. Use the right side wall for a workbench and testing area, (and space for a wet bar and TV?) where you'd be standing directly on the concrete with easy access to the doors. You'd access the layout area by simply stepping up to a long floor/platform.
riogrande5761My opinion is sell the house to someone who would enjoy it and buy a house more appropriate to both you and your wives needs.
.
If Brent's need is a stunning train room, I think the pool room is a great option.
Getting rid of a pool to get a magnificent train room sounds like a gateway to paradise.
I am firmly in the "fill it in" camp.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
riogrande5761 If that pool room in the first post is in yours, wow, it is beautiful, like something you see in a magazine. What a shame to cover it up. My opinion is sell the house to someone who would enjoy it and buy a house more appropriate to both you and your wives needs. My wife and I passed over a number of houses which didn't tick the major boxes, a train room being one of them. My "compromise" here was buying a house with a unfinished basement, but the basement was framed in so that was a major head start and I could do the drywall, ceiling and floor. Drywall is done and ceiling is nearing completion.
If that pool room in the first post is in yours, wow, it is beautiful, like something you see in a magazine. What a shame to cover it up.
My opinion is sell the house to someone who would enjoy it and buy a house more appropriate to both you and your wives needs. My wife and I passed over a number of houses which didn't tick the major boxes, a train room being one of them. My "compromise" here was buying a house with a unfinished basement, but the basement was framed in so that was a major head start and I could do the drywall, ceiling and floor. Drywall is done and ceiling is nearing completion.
?
I thought Brent explained pretty clearly that this pool is in a house they are considering, that otherwise is what they are looking for?
Pretty or not, if you don't want a pool, why not make it a train room?
You could not give me another pool, been there, done that, for 23 years.
And as Brent and others have suggested, pools generally do not ad value to houses.
Water Level Route If you fill it with sand, you shouldn't have to remove the plugs, therefore no water intrusion.
If you fill it with sand, you shouldn't have to remove the plugs, therefore no water intrusion.
That's true, funny I didn't think of that during happy hour last night
But how do you support your deck on sand. Unless you're going to drill a bunch of holes on the side of the pool for your joists. I suppose you could put footings for support beams in the sand, if the sano tubes were suspended before the rest of the sand fill. Then one wouldn't have to damage anything and the project is still reversible.
It would be interesting to see the equipment they use to get all that sand in there. I suppose it would be equivalent to a cement pump. Not sure though.
Actually I don't know why I was so against it last night, maybe I'm more prone to think like a Carpenter doing things all out of wood. Sand is a really good idea Brent.
All I have to say is, let's trade houses. I'd love to be able to swim year-round.
I don't know when I will hit the point where I feel I spend too much time on pool work vs the use I get out of it - I'm ALWAYS in the pool, and usually I'm the only one, but I've had few issues and it doesn't cost me that much in chemicals to keep it clean and clear. If that ratio ever flips - I'm filling it in.
Why not reach out to a pool builder or pool maintenance company and see what they say? I didn't see anyone here that posted say they're qualified to tell you what would be the best solution. Not that some of these suggestions posted are valid, but if you want to keep the pool, have it covered by insurance, bring in the pros.
covering the pool will allow your home insurance to go down. By no small amount. You could always build steps down in after decking over it and use it as a work room and storage area. Multilevel layout? You can always build the layout seperate from the walls sonit is stand alone. And not touch the walls. building the floor using deck construction methods is your best bet to plan for weight considerations
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
BATMAN Fine for me but the kids would take a hit on their inheritance when it came time to sell.
That is never a consideration for my wife and I.
Every vacation we take, every week we spend on the beach, and everything I buy for my layout is a hit on their inheritance.
Remodeling my house from a 4 bedroom 3 bath into a 2 bedroom 1 1/2 bath with my train room will certainly hurt too.
Not my problem. I am going to enjoy my life. If they are counting on an inheritance to enjoy theirs... tough.
My property is literally worth more if the house is not there. The kids instructions for when we pass is to bulldoze the house and sell the empty lot.
The $22,000.00 we put into the kitchen will be a total loss.
If you fill it with sand, you shouldn't have to remove the plugs, therefore no water intrusion. A friend of mine recently bought a house that had a pool that had been filled in for years. He had the dirt removed and with a new liner and a little maintenance on the equipment has a functional pool. It's not an unreasonable solution.
Mike