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Question for contractors on transforming a pool room to a train room

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Question for contractors on transforming a pool room to a train room
Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, June 20, 2019 3:46 PM

This is the third house the wife and I really like that has had an indoor pool. Neither one of us wants a pool, however, we really like this house a lot. My question is, could this pool room have the pool drained and a floor built over the pool and covering the entire room making it my trainroom/mancave. Seems easy enough but what is it I am not thinking about? We want to leave it so when we sell, a perspective buyer can retun it to being a pool room again by simply removing the floor.

Would the structure of the pool be compromised by leaving it empty for years?

The house isn't huge, this pool room takes up a large percentage of the total floorspace.

31

Brent

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Thursday, June 20, 2019 3:52 PM

I am certain that the pool will not be damaged by leaving it empty any number of years. You will want to be able to protect it before you cover it. Be sure that you "winterize" the pool equipment.

 

Make a really nice train room. I think that it will work for you if you want to buy that house.

 

ROAR

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, June 20, 2019 3:59 PM

Where I live, pools are kept filled during the winter so frost heaves do not collapse the pool.  Not sure if that applies to indoor pools but you are further north than I am. 

Pumps and filtration systems don't like to sit for years and I don't know what happens to the residual water in the pipes.

Henry

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, June 20, 2019 4:08 PM

Brent,

It should be fine. Because the pool is indoors, it is even more stable than a pool outdoors. The building foundation protects it from surface ground water, freezing, etc.

Important detail - all concrete in gound pools have plugs in the bottom to relieve ground water pressure. Leaving the pool empty will require removal of these plugs and it would be a good idea to install a sump pump at the deepest point in case ground water enters thru the removed plugs.

Most concrete pools are like boats, without the water in them they displace more than they weigh - they will float out of the ground unless the plugs are removed.

Spanning that distance will require a floor deck of some complexity, but is very doable.

Having owned a pool for much of my life, I am now very happy to not have one at the new house......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by mobilman44 on Thursday, June 20, 2019 4:20 PM

Sheldon's advice is right on!  Ground water can either push an empty pool upwards, or if the drains are open, water can and will seep in - requiring sumps.

On a personal opinion note......that pool & room set up is wayyyy to nice to destroy it.  It's loss will surely affect the value of the property - likely significantly.  Twer I were you, I would keep looking...........

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, June 20, 2019 4:22 PM

BigDaddy

Where I live, pools are kept filled during the winter so frost heaves do not collapse the pool.  Not sure if that applies to indoor pools but you are further north than I am. 

Pumps and filtration systems don't like to sit for years and I don't know what happens to the residual water in the pipes.

 

My parents had a pool........I just moved from a house with a pool after 23 years......

As you know I live here in Maryland as well.

The real winter fear is that the pool will float out of the ground - especially with some of the water tables here by the bay.

Properly winterized, an indoor pool would have no measurable amount of water in the pipes. But yes, pump seals and such would suffer from extended dry storage.

In fact, most pools are winterized by blowing out most of pipes and capping them, then adding antifreeze where rain and snow will fill up.

Decades ago, in the 1960's, Sylvan Pools had commercial pools they had built washed right out of the ground without cracking the shell during several hurricanes in Ocean City and other Atlantic beach resorts. They were actually able to reset the shells and restore the pools.

But draining a pool without removing the plugs, espeically for an extended period of time, is asking for trouble.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, June 20, 2019 4:22 PM

A number of years ago I was placed in charge of municipal pools because they hadn’t been maintained properly.  I quickly learned of all kinds of problems. 
 
One of the pools had real problems.  One being that even if the ground water level isn’t very high an empty pool can float when left empty.  The area didn’t have an exceptionally high water table but never the less after a good rain one of the empty pools popped out of the ground.  There wasn’t a fix!  It had to be replaced.
 
The pool that popped out of the ground was Olympic size, 140,000 gallon capacity made out of concrete.  I wouldn’t mess around with Mother Nature.
 
 
I would check with the local building inspection department and seek their advice.
 
 
Mel
 
 
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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, June 20, 2019 4:27 PM

My parents had a pool too, but it was built in 58.  Maybe they didn't put plugs in then, I don't remember any. 

It had a very steep deep end, and I was playing with my boats when I slipped in.  I instantly forgot how to swim and bobbed up and down till my mother found me.  That never made me scared of the water, but I would not have a pool either and neither would one of my good friends who runs a pool service company. 

Henry

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, June 20, 2019 4:30 PM

mobilman44

Sheldon's advice is right on!  Ground water can either push an empty pool upwards, or if the drains are open, water can and will seep in - requiring sumps.

On a personal opinion note......that pool & room set up is wayyyy to nice to destroy it.  It's loss will surely affect the value of the property - likely significantly.  Twer I were you, I would keep looking...........

 

I cant speak for the Pacific Northwest of Canada where Brent is, but here in the Mid Atlantic of the USA, pools do not generally ad value to your property. Many people do not want them, they don't want the cost or the liablity. So because it narrows your buyer pool, it often does nothing to increase your property value.

I will be happy when I sell the house I just moved out of, pool and all.......

The big old house and the pool were great fun for many years, time for a new adventure, without a pool.....

Sheldon

    

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, June 20, 2019 4:33 PM

I dunno, Brent...with some imaginative scenery, you could model CPR's carfloat operation on Slocan Lake.

Wayne

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, June 20, 2019 4:51 PM

One more pool comment, my father, who owned a house with pool from 1971 until 1984, always said there was a list things this rule applied to:

"If you have to ask "how much", you can't afford it"

Pools are on the list, along with boats, exotic cars, houses on the water, etc

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Track fiddler on Thursday, June 20, 2019 4:53 PM

Sheldon is right,  don't float your boat.  Although I have never owned a pool, I have friends that do.  I have heard of what he is saying more than once.

That looks like a really fun project Brent.  I wish it was mine.  Plain and simple, you don't have to make rocket science out of it.

I would go to the longer perimeter walls and snap lines perpendicular across the room 16" on center, right over the pool.  I would measure the longest distance between those snaped lines across the pool and check maximum span ratio on I-joists.

Then I would build sections of support walls (In) either side of the pool...  minus the width of the I-joists and tie them together with two-by-fours so they can't go anywhere.

Then I would run one by threes across the snaped lines and the I-joists to span the room for your plywood. 

Tapcons through the one by threes on the concrete deck (very sparingly, where is it going to go anywhere after the plywood's attached?) and screws into the I-joists but absolutely no fasteners in the pool in case anything is ever changed.  It looks like your door has plenty of clearance for adding an inch and a half to the floor.

TF

 

 

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Posted by JDL56 on Thursday, June 20, 2019 5:12 PM

 

In the Niagara area in Canada Andy Panko is building a layout in his indoor pool. I don't know the status of the layout today, but here's what I wrote about it in 2014. (With additional photos and trackplan.)

Andy laid a floor in the pool bottom to even it out and support the layout.

http://cprailmmsub.blogspot.com/2014/05/model-railroad-in-swimming-pool.html 

John Longhurst, Winnipeg

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, June 20, 2019 6:41 PM

Wow, ask a question, go to Home Depot, come home to twelve responses. I forgot about the pool floating out of the ground if empty, that would be a real concern for me as it happened to the house up the street. They spent $140,000.00 on a pool and a yard full of stone work, waterfalls, slides and a hot tub. First winter I guess they emptied it and out came the pool during monsoon season. Took about five years to settle all the lawsuits and have it all redone. Don't know who's fault it was or anything else about it.

The house we are looking at is on a good slope and I don't think it would be an issue, however it would be a costly venture if it did. 

Wayne, the only problem with leaving the water in for barge-ops would be the half dozen Golden Retriever lake monsters that would create havoc by retrieving the barges as they crossed.

John, I remember that article on the pool and another one I saw where the guy built the layout in the pool.

The pool season is very short here and a pool really drags the price down a lot. My cousin had to fill theirs in before the house would sell. We have an above ground pool and this will be the last year it goes up as no one has been near it this year so far. It has had a lot of use over the years and we got more than our money out of it. We have had some people looking at our house even though it is not on the market and they were not interested in the pool at all. 

Thanks for the responses, appreciate them all, lots to consider.

Brent

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, June 20, 2019 6:56 PM

Down here, unless a pool is VERY NICE, it adds zero to house value.

.

With the water table so high, and being only 24 inches above sea level, it is almost impossible to drain a pool for repair. There are fewer pools in my neighborhood than when I moved in.

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Some people have filled in pools before they list the house for sale.

.

If I wanted that for a train room, I would not hesitate to fill in the pool and make into a proper room for the layout.

.

Saving it for the next owner sounds like it could create problems and maintenance issues.

.

-Kevin

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Posted by Track fiddler on Thursday, June 20, 2019 7:13 PM

Ask questions to your fellow members......  expect results. 

Go to the Home Depot not so much.

I wouldn't ask the Home Depot to build a doghouse for me. 

I remember when crew members at Menards and Home Depot's used to help you and somewhat knew how to tell you where their inventory was.  Now there doesn't seem to be much help there anymoreWhistlingLaugh

Oh well what are you going to do thoughWhistling

TF

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Posted by Track fiddler on Thursday, June 20, 2019 7:23 PM

Kevin that's a good point, I didn't know about the sea level in Florida. 

In New Orleans,  graves are above ground.  I think they do that because they don't want anything to float.

My Judy used to live there you know.

TF

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, June 20, 2019 7:27 PM

Track fiddler
I wouldn't ask the Home Depot to build a doghouse for me.

Ya but some idiot on a John Deere ran over my safety glasses that fell off the pressure washer onto the lawn and Home Depot is the closest place to get new ones.Whistling

Kevin we have talked about getting rid of the pool altogether but doing that would make the layout of the house just weird. Fine for me but the kids would take a hit on their inheritance when it came time to sell.Laugh

Brent

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Posted by Track fiddler on Thursday, June 20, 2019 7:37 PM

Yeah you're in a different state Brent.  I know about that distance thing.  Been there done that in the Kabatogama State Forest.  I would like to go back there to live someday.

Track Fiddler

 

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Posted by Track fiddler on Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:05 PM

Off Topic

Leveling out that pool room floor is so simple I could do it in my sleep.

Maybe I should come up there Brent and show you how it's done in a weekend or so.

Track Fiddler

 

But then again I'm older,  the "or so" words are the key wordsLaughLaughLaugh

TF

 

 

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Posted by csxns on Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:26 PM

Track fiddler
I wouldn't ask the Home Depot to build a doghouse for me. 

If you are in North Carolina you can come and visit,we had the Home Depot to do some work for us and they did a great job better than Lowes.

Russell

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:30 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
but here in the Mid Atlantic of the USA, pools do not generally ad value to your property. Many people do not want them, they don't want the cost or the liablity. So because it narrows your buyer pool, it often does nothing to increase your property value. I will be happy when I sell the house I just moved out of, pool and all.......

That was true for me in Northern Virginia.  The kids enjoyed it for about 10 years.  Once they were grown it was just a maintenance chore for another 10 years.  When I retired and moved, I was fortunate, a buyer came along who wanted a pool and mine at 30,00 gallons was the biggest in the price range.  No extra money for the pool, but it did sell the house to him without too much haggling over price.

Paul

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:33 PM

BATMAN
This is the third house the wife and I really like that has had an indoor pool. Neither one of us wants a pool, however, we really like this house a lot. My question is, could this pool room have the pool drained and a floor built over the pool and covering the entire room making it my trainroom/mancave.

Well how about building a G scale layout with a railroad car ferry?Whistling

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

Paul

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Posted by Track fiddler on Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:47 PM

Some good communication out of the Diner here

 

TF

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:59 PM

So one solution to an empty pool is sand, filling it @60% is the same weight as water. This should keep it in place and can be removed if need be. TF, I am quite capable of doing the work if it comes to that, I helped build three houses from start to finish back when using a hammer was in fashion. Now I have a huge compressor and three nail guns. ARG...ARG...ARG! Should be a breeze.

Brent

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Posted by Track fiddler on Thursday, June 20, 2019 9:24 PM

I don't know why I said that,  actually Sand is a good idea

TF

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Posted by Track fiddler on Thursday, June 20, 2019 9:35 PM

I am hitting the rack  The powers-that-be have me working tomorrow.

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Posted by Water Level Route on Friday, June 21, 2019 6:04 AM

If you fill it with sand, you shouldn't have to remove the plugs, therefore no water intrusion.  A friend of mine recently bought a house that had a pool that had been filled in for years.  He had the dirt removed and with a new liner and a little maintenance on the equipment has a functional pool.  It's not an unreasonable solution.

Mike

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, June 21, 2019 6:05 AM

BATMAN
Fine for me but the kids would take a hit on their inheritance when it came time to sell.

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That is never a consideration for my wife and I.

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Every vacation we take, every week we spend on the beach, and everything I buy for my layout is a hit on their inheritance.

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Remodeling my house from a 4 bedroom 3 bath into a 2 bedroom 1 1/2 bath with my train room will certainly hurt too.

.

Not my problem. I am going to enjoy my life. If they are counting on an inheritance to enjoy theirs... tough.

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My property is literally worth more if the house is not there. The kids instructions for when we pass is to bulldoze the house and sell the empty lot.

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The $22,000.00 we put into the kitchen will be a total loss.

.

-Kevin

.

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Posted by NVSRR on Friday, June 21, 2019 6:21 AM

covering the pool will allow your home insurance to go down.  By no small amount.  You could always build steps down in after decking over it and use it as a work room and storage area.   Multilevel layout?   You can always build the layout seperate from the walls sonit is stand alone.  And not touch the walls.  building the floor using deck construction methods is your best bet to plan for weight considerations

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A realist sees a frieght train

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