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Demise of the hobby shop (an observation, not an emotional response)

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Posted by PRR8259 on Saturday, May 25, 2019 1:26 PM

My last MBK order arrived exceedingly poorly packed, and I complained heatedly to the store management about it.  They said they were changing to more environmentally friendly packaging to comply with Md state law.  Understood.  Fine, I can shop elsewhere.

I just ordered a brass diesel from Overland Hobbies.  They suggested UPS as in their experience UPS lately has done better for the more expensive items.  Shipping was actually pretty affordable.  The item was overpacked just as they are expected to be for that kind of item, and arrived quickly in perfect condition.  At that rate Overland Hobbies gets my future business, whenever possible.

As always, your mileage may vary.

John

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Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, May 25, 2019 2:06 PM

I'll be darned.  From hobby shop demise to shipping and packaging problems. Confused

Mike.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, May 25, 2019 2:18 PM

mbinsewi
I'll be darned. From hobby shop demise to shipping and packaging problems

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Yeah, I would have been very wrong with my prediction for where this thread would end up.

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-Kevin

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, May 25, 2019 3:16 PM

SeeYou190
 
mbinsewi
I'll be darned. From hobby shop demise to shipping and packaging problems.

Yeah, I would have been very wrong with my prediction for where this thread would end up..

-Kevin 

Nonsense! The demise of the local hobby shop and the advent of shipping problems with Internet sellers go hand in hand. 

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, May 25, 2019 4:00 PM

Wellllll....excussssssssse me!  Laugh  I'm just a bystander, pay no attention to me Laugh  

Besides, it's pm nap time, then Saturday night cocktail time.  Laugh  Ramble on as you wish. Smile, Wink & Grin

Mike.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, May 25, 2019 4:04 PM

mbinsewi

Wellllll....excussssssssse me!  Laugh  I'm just a bystander, pay no attention to me Laugh  

Besides, it's pm nap time, then Saturday night cocktail time.  Laugh  Ramble on as you wish. Smile, Wink & Grin

Mike.

 

Here's to ya, Mike!  Drinks

Rich

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Saturday, May 25, 2019 5:18 PM

PRR8259
My last MBK order arrived exceedingly poorly packed, and I complained heatedly to the store management about it. They said they were changing to more environmentally friendly packaging to comply with Md state law.

Just curious, was your stuff damaged?

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, May 25, 2019 6:58 PM

richhotrain
Nonsense! The demise of the local hobby shop and the advent of shipping problems with Internet sellers go hand in hand.

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Not saying they do not go hand-in-hand with one another... just that I would not have predicted this turn in the conversation.

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Anyway... My turn to join in... The worst packing I have had was when I bought an Oriental Powerhouse 2-8-2 from an eBay seller about 5 years ago. At this time brass prices were still quite high, and I paid around $200.00 for the Powerhouse hybrid. Now I can get a Sunset brass 2-8-2 for under 200.00, but on with the story.

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The seller crumpled up a couple of newspapers and put the locomotive in its original box into a big box and shipped it.

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There is a celophane window on the front of the Powerhouse boxes. During shipping the window broke, and the locomotive came out of its box and bounced around the big box for who knows how long.

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The only damage were a couple of bent brass rods. The locomotive still ran (and still does run) fine.

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Yes, stuff my wife orders from Amazon is getting packaged worse and worse.

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Brasstrains dot com packs better than anyone. I think you could use a box packed by these guys as the ball in a rugby match, and the contents would be just fine.

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-Kevin

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, May 25, 2019 7:05 PM

PRR8259
They said they were changing to more environmentally friendly packaging to comply with Md state law.

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I hope they did not really say that because it would be a 100% horse-feathers excuse.

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There is a good machine that we use in shipping/receiving that turns your old incoming packages, office waste, and other "trash" into good packing material. That is an easy way to be compliant and still assure customer satisfaction.

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Machines that make air bags on site are also a good option. Not sure what Maryland statute they are refering to, but there is surely an easy solution available.

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If this is true, and they do not straighten up their act, the door is open for competition. This is certainly a weakness.

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-Kevin

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, May 25, 2019 7:25 PM

Mistaken reply.

Regards, Ed

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Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, May 25, 2019 7:56 PM

gmpullman
Personally, I won't miss the boxes I get from MB Klein full of peanuts.

Nor will I. I never did like shipping peanuts since they can become a mess on the floor if one is not careful while removing the items inside the box.

Larry

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, May 25, 2019 8:09 PM

gmpullman
As long as those horsefeathers aren't in a styrofoam container (or peanuts)

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Well if that is all it is, then the air-pillow machine is a quick, easy, and money saving option.

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I am sensing malarky here.

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-Kevin

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, May 25, 2019 8:32 PM

SeeYou190
I am sensing malarky here.

OK, I'll step back.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/environment/bs-md-foam-ban-20190411-story.html

 

Thank you, Ed

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, May 25, 2019 8:57 PM

PRR8259
...Often I do get to stop at English's. They have customers that come all the way from Canada: 3 hours away, 6 hours away, sometimes farther, to shop at their store....

I'm one of those Ca-knuckleheads who make that trip, but usually only once or twice a year.

However, I first drive to Ohio, to visit a fellow model railroader and railfan, and a very good friend.  That's roughly 4 hrs/255 miles.
 
After 3 or 4 days there, I'm off to Montoursville, about 4hrs/245miles.  I usually spend several hours browsing the store's vast inventory, chatting with the staff or other customers, and filling my list of things to buy.

Then it's off to home, another 4hrs/250miles.  I hadn't realised, until looking up the distances on-line for this post, how similar they were between destinations.

PRR8259
....Apparently train stores in Canada have always been few and far between, going back many years now....

Until fairly recently, there were two which I frequented. One was about 15-20 minutes away, a large store mostly devoted to model railroading, but they had a good selection of plastic models (cars, 'planes, boats) and also RC stuff.  In the basement was mostly O and G scale stuff. 
Adjoining, and open to the modelling side of things, there was an affiliated craft store of the same size.

Upstairs was the HO scale layout of a local club. 

This store was fairly close to the border, and many customers would come from the Buffalo and Niagara Falls, NY area.   Several years ago, the owner retired, and the store passed to his son, who....well, I don't need to go into detail about why the store closed only a year or so later.

While the original owner of that store was still in charge of things, a small model railroad store opened up here, in-town, about a ten minute drive for me.  While it didn't have a great deal of inventory, the owner could get what I wanted fairly quickly and at reasonable prices.  A couple of years later, he moved out of town to a larger store, this one in the opposite direction, but only 5 minutes away. 
By that time, there wasn't much I needed in the way of r-t-r or even kits, but I did buy a fair amount of detail parts and modelling supplies, especially styrene.
The one thing that both of these stores had and which I miss the most, was their selection of pre-owned stuff, whether it was n-i-b kits, or kits partially (or poorly) assembled, or even damaged items, most of it was at especially affordable prices.

Last year, the owner decided to wrap it up, partially due to health reasons, and partly due to the growth of on-line shopping.  I do miss both stores and the people who ran them, and also the modellers who frequented them.  My "local" store is now about 45 minutes away (when the traffic's not too bad), and I usually don't make the trip unless I have either a shopping list or need of an item for an in-progress project.

I do buy stuff on-line, usually from dealers or manufacturers, but since most of it comes from the States, I have it sent to my friend in Ohio, as I usually visit there several times every year.  Shipping from the U.S. to Canada is expensive, and while there's no longer duty on model railroading stuff, the "handling fees" can be onerous, and some items may be subject to Canadian sales tax.

Wayne

 

 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, May 25, 2019 9:07 PM

gmpullman
OK, I'll step back. Thank you, Ed

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Not malarky from you!

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Big Smile

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I was talking about the excuse that they could not provide adequate packing due to Maryland statute.

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I need to figure out a way to type without offending my forum mates.

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-Kevin

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Posted by rrebell on Saturday, May 25, 2019 11:17 PM

accually I am pleased with the way this thread has progressed, very good give and take and the overseers have not once stepped in, which considering the topic can sometimes be a hot button for some people. Look forward to how it progresses from here.

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Posted by PRR8259 on Saturday, May 25, 2019 11:24 PM

IRONROOSTER

 

 
PRR8259
My last MBK order arrived exceedingly poorly packed, and I complained heatedly to the store management about it. They said they were changing to more environmentally friendly packaging to comply with Md state law.

 

Just curious, was your stuff damaged?

Paul

Yes, sir, the locomotive was damaged.

Forgive me for the direction of the topic.  However, to my mind, there is indeed a logical connection between poor mail order shipping/package safety/costs and shopping/finding/buying items at the local train store.  For me, severe issues with mail order items being damaged this year have pushed me further toward the local train stores, when previously my direction was otherwise.

As always, others are free to hold their own opinion, and I don't have a monopoly on truth.  YMMV.

Respectfully submitted--

John

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Posted by PRR8259 on Saturday, May 25, 2019 11:38 PM

MBK did tell me that they were abandoning styofoam peanuts to comply with a Maryland state law (at least perceived soon to be passed if not already on the books).  I complained about the lack of styrofoam peanuts.  The air bags did nothing to stop the Athearn box from moving around inside the larger shipping box.  The diesel pilot was damaged and pilot handrails were clearly broken loose.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, May 26, 2019 7:48 AM

I have not purchased much in the way of model trains recently, thru the mail or in person. I have most of what I want or need, a list that does not change on a whim...... 

BUT, historically I have purchased hundreds, possibly thousands, of model train items, and lots of other stuff from all manner of online/mail order suppliers.

My recent mail order purchases of all types include a lot from AMAZON and some from Ebay.

My damage rate has been virtually zero for the last 20 years.

In 20 years I can only recall one model train being damaged in the mail, and that was so minor I was able to fix it myself.

An Intermountain F unit came with a damaged coupler box from an Ebay vender. It had clearly slid in the box crushing the coupler and damaging the coupler box. There was no other damage to the model. The accessory pack of coupler lift bars was also missing from the box.

Even after explaining that the item was purchased used/NOS from an Ebay vendor, the nice people at Intermountain supplied the needed parts at no charge.

All the other hundreds of model train items I have purchased thru the mail have arrived safe and sound.

For a number of years I sold custom tractor parts for classic GRAVELY tractors on Ebay. In hundreds of transactions, only once was anything lost or damaged by my preferred shipper, the USPS.

I have had the most trouble with UPS and large heavy items (like ready to assemble kitchen cabinets) with which they refuse to use enough care in handling.

I have only shipped about a dozen model train items myself, not being one to buy and then resell, I have only ever sold off a few items I later deemed unacceptable or unwanted.

I packed them well, but not "extremely over the top", They all reached their destinations unharmed, carried by the USPS........

Sheldon  

    

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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, May 26, 2019 8:47 AM

I don't follow these forums on a regular basis and I know I'm joining this discussion late but I'll throw my two cents in anyway. As long as I have been a member here, it seems that on a regular basis someone is lamenting about the demise of the LHS. There is no doubt that much of consumer commerce is moving away from brick and mortar stores to online buying but that doesn't mean the end of traditional stores. To be sure some are going out of business either because of financial difficulties or retirements of the owners but others are still thriving. On the north side of Columbus, OH I know of four hobby shops and I could walk to all four in about 15 minutes. Three are well established and seem to be doing quite well. The fourth I'm not so sure about but even the three thriving ones show there is still a place for traditional retailers. How long will these stores continue to be around. Who knows? Nothing lasts forever. Sears at one time was the Amazon of their day. Now they are in their death throes. All I can say is that for the foreseeable future there will still be a place for traditional retailing because they can offer service that is difficult for the e-tailers to match. 

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Posted by PRR8259 on Sunday, May 26, 2019 8:57 AM

Well, my all time shipping damage or loss rate is still around 1% to 2%, not 0% as Sheldon has experienced, but for me the disturbing trend is this year, lately, it has definitely been a problem with multiple dealers shipping via USPS.

I think there is still a place for the local train store, and they are not all just giving up and closing their doors.  Instead they are adapting to compete the best they know how.  Many have embraced internet sales; others are planning to do so.

John

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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, May 26, 2019 9:04 AM

PRR8259
Sheldon has experienced, but for me the disturbing trend is this year, lately, it has definitely been a problem with multiple dealers shipping via USPS.

John,I don't worry about USPS as much as I do UPS when it comes to handling packages.

I witness one driver tossing one of my packages from the sidewalk to my front porch around 10'.. I'm yet to see a mailman do that.

Thankfully there was nothing breakable in that box.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by PRR8259 on Sunday, May 26, 2019 9:08 AM

Well, my USPS boxes have clearly also been thrown, if not by the driver then by others.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, May 26, 2019 9:36 AM

BRAKIE
John,I don't worry about USPS as much as I do UPS when it comes to handling packages. I witness one driver tossing one of my packages from the sidewalk to my front porch around 10'.. I'm yet to see a mailman do that.

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UPS and FedEx are private companies that exist based on efficiency and productivity. They do not take great care with the packages because that costs time and money.

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The USPS is more or less a public service, and I get much better service with USPS.

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If you need something delivered on time, FedEx is the best option. The USPS will give the best service. UPS is the least expensive if you ship a lot of packages, and they handle larger boxes better than FedEx.

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-Kevin

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Posted by rrebell on Sunday, May 26, 2019 10:10 AM

John-NYBW

I don't follow these forums on a regular basis and I know I'm joining this discussion late but I'll throw my two cents in anyway. As long as I have been a member here, it seems that on a regular basis someone is lamenting about the demise of the LHS. There is no doubt that much of consumer commerce is moving away from brick and mortar stores to online buying but that doesn't mean the end of traditional stores. To be sure some are going out of business either because of financial difficulties or retirements of the owners but others are still thriving. On the north side of Columbus, OH I know of four hobby shops and I could walk to all four in about 15 minutes. Three are well established and seem to be doing quite well. The fourth I'm not so sure about but even the three thriving ones show there is still a place for traditional retailers. How long will these stores continue to be around. Who knows? Nothing lasts forever. Sears at one time was the Amazon of their day. Now they are in their death throes. All I can say is that for the foreseeable future there will still be a place for traditional retailing because they can offer service that is difficult for the e-tailers to match. 

 

I kinda agree on most of those parts. The most successsful LHS I ever visited was a front for a buisness, the guy specialized in building model railroads (that was his true buisness) and it was his way of getting wholesale prices for things and charging retail to his customers as part of his fee structure (and a way to make jobs go smoothly and his way as he could win arguments with a discount on something). He also had a guy do train repair if I remember right and a list of potential helpers as some of his jobs were very high end.

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Posted by rrebell on Sunday, May 26, 2019 10:18 AM

As a side note, I would have been even more successful, money wise (I did fine) if I had followed all the best practices I learned over the years about buisness but one says to themselves they can slide on this or that and those things do add up over time. I admit it is hard to stay on course but that is why there are different levels of success in buisness and it is nerve racking at time risking it all for the next move up knowing it could all fall apart through your mistake or things beyond your control.

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Posted by emdmike on Sunday, May 26, 2019 11:04 AM

I by no means bash others memories, on the contrary, I enjoy reading about them, many times about the same shops I visited when I was a young boy.   We have lost many here in Indiana that I can remember.  Casey Jones Trains in Indianapolis, Train Express, Big Four Hobbies, Watts Train Shop and many others.  I remember the display case with the "golden" brass trains, the isle of Athearn and MDC kits where I spent most of my money after drooling over the brass stuff.  Now as an adult, most all of my train funds are spent on those brass trains I wanted as a kid. Most of them in green boxes that say Overland Models Inc on them.  Followed by older craftsman type freight cars to pass the long winter hours when I am not at work.  The online shopping craze, combined with many of the "active" modeling generation working more than one job, along with family duties that curtail the free time to travel to a LHS, is to me one of the major issues affecting retail in general.  Not just trains or hobbies in general, but all levels of retail.  All of the malls where I live are struggling and trying to find ways to entice more stores to open.  But the reborn and restored downtown areas seem to be thriving in my area.  While we can lament the passing of so many shops, its a great time to be buying, prices are lower on many items(older stuff and brass) and the options for where to buy are greater for those that buy online, along with shows and at the shops that remain.  Mike the Aspie

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Posted by Erie1951 on Sunday, May 26, 2019 11:27 AM

Not all hobby shops are dead and gone, as others have mentioned. There's a good one, Rob's Trains, in Alliance, Ohio that's about a forty minutes drive from me and I've never been there. I looked at the website and the shop photos show racks of detail parts, kits, RTR, track supplies, you name it. They're also a DCC dealer, so that adds to their credibility as a good shop. Trip planned, credit card at the ready! Thumbs Up Laugh

Russ

Modeling the early '50s Erie in Paterson, NJ.  Here's the link to my railroad postcard collection: https://railroadpostcards.blogspot.com/

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Posted by emdmike on Sunday, May 26, 2019 11:42 AM

I will have to remember that shop Russ, that is one highlight to these types of threads, they highlight the remaining shops, which ones are good and those that are not so much.     Mike

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, May 26, 2019 11:52 AM

SeeYou190

 

 
BRAKIE
John,I don't worry about USPS as much as I do UPS when it comes to handling packages. I witness one driver tossing one of my packages from the sidewalk to my front porch around 10'.. I'm yet to see a mailman do that.

 

.

UPS and FedEx are private companies that exist based on efficiency and productivity. They do not take great care with the packages because that costs time and money.

.

The USPS is more or less a public service, and I get much better service with USPS.

.

If you need something delivered on time, FedEx is the best option. The USPS will give the best service. UPS is the least expensive if you ship a lot of packages, and they handle larger boxes better than FedEx.

.

-Kevin

.

 

But the walk-in, one package rates at UPS are outrageous, brown lost all my business years ago.......

Sheldon

    

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