Ok, the title is a tad misleading. A used layout really doesn't hold much value in itself to anyone other than the person that built it. Most people want to design & build their own layout to their own tastes & space constrictions. I am actually wondering more about what used equipment value ie rolling stock, locomoties, structures.
I'll start more from the beginning. Some people following my other thread know I'm trying to get back into the hobby after a few years out of it. I would like to save some $$$ by not purchasing everything new if possible. After looking over a few dfferent sites I didn't see much for sale by itself but I did find several complete layouts for sale. Some less expensive and others a little over te top in price. Is there a good rule of thumb as to what used equipment is worth? 75% of new? 50% of new? Not worth anything & walk away? I don't like the idea of buying a complete layout but if I were to be getting it at the right price it would be a consideration.
What equipment is worth is subjective and dependant on condition, if mint in box etc. And of course some models and road names are high in demand and command high prices while others of same quality and make sell for much lower prices.
You.might get good bargains in a collection but youd want to see it first. I'd guess a collection with.high quality models such as Tangent and ExactRail or Genesis would be up there in price.
I'd go to train shows and hunt for bargains that you can cherry pick. I've found that can be a good place to build a fleet. Sometimes there are estates with nice models for attractive prices.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761And of course some models and road names are high in demand and command high prices while others of same quality and make sell for much lower prices.
Indeed my P2K OC is going for around $275-300 in mint condition. I have seen the I&O GP30 HH go for the same price again in mint condition.
Laughable at best on e-Bay is the term "New Old Stock(NOS)" beware some of those claims because a 50 year old model or those with missinng or broken handrails can't be NOS.
A use engine in mint condition with box and paper work should fitch around 50-60% unless its very common then expect a lower price offering.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
MJPinSEWIAfter looking over a few dfferent sites I didn't see much for sale by itself but I did find several complete layouts for sale.
There are over 30,000 used HO items currently listed on eBay. The majority of those listings are for individual or small groups of railcars and locomotives. Quality varies wildly, so it helps to know what you are looking for. There are also many other on-line HO resale forums and groups. Others may be able to post specific examples.
If you only want the equipment, a used layout would be a pretty inefficient way to purchase. Good luck with your layout.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
cuyama MJPinSEWI After looking over a few dfferent sites I didn't see much for sale by itself but I did find several complete layouts for sale. There are over 30,000 used HO items currently listed on eBay. The majority of those listings are for individual or small groups of railcars and locomotives. Quality varies wildly, so it helps to know what you are looking for. There are also many other on-line HO resale forums and groups. Others may be able to post specific examples. If you only want the equipment, a used layout would be a pretty inefficient way to purchase. Good luck with your layout. Byron
MJPinSEWI After looking over a few dfferent sites I didn't see much for sale by itself but I did find several complete layouts for sale.
I would normally agree but there are 2 in particular that caught my eye. 1 is a 4’x8’ HO scale with track nailed down & no other work done. 1 locomotive and about $25 freight cars for $125. The other is also 4’x8’ N scale (I haven’t committed to scale yet) with track nailed down & nothing else done includes 5 locomotives & 75 freight and passenger cars plus about 20 structures for $300. I havent looked at either so I would assume most equipment would be “train set” quality at this point until I know differently.
Personally I would avoid train set quality trains; they have historically been of poor quality, power packs poor motor control, rolling stock truck mounted couplers etc. The rolling stock would be a chore to upgrade to body mount Kadee couplers and other improvement. I would avoid them.
If HO, would set as an absolute minmum freight cars of Athearn, MDC, Accurail, Walthers kit type - those can at least be upgraded without much effort to Kadee's and metal wheels.
Of course in the past 10 or so years, there are "train sets" which have been sold that have better quality rolling stock such as Athearn RTR engines, and freight cars (Athearn train sets) and a few others, but you really need to know what your are getting. You could spend money and get some really cheap, mostly useless stuff that, in the long run, you regret buying and have to dump down the road.
For N scale, Atlas makes good solid engines and rolling stock. Lifelike and Bachmann be careful of. There have been improvements in the past 10-15 years but is the stuff newer or older?
It's better to be choosey and get equipment that has lasting usefullness and value.
as far as the layout itself is concerned, the value of trees, structures, and turnouts multiplied by about half .. that's all it's worth to the -average- user ...
and all rolling stock,again about half of current replacement value , not a 'money maker' by any means ..
Good advice from all above. You need to know EXACTLY what the locos are, before anybody can help you.
One thing you could do as far as reseach, find out who makes all of the stuff, buildings and all, track, etc, everything, and price it out yourself. But of course, FIRST you need to know all about the locos. Pictures with the shells off is the best way.
I have never considered a layout that has been partially built, buts thats me.
Did you get the Imgur thing worked out? Still like see your new found space.
Mike.
My You Tube
riogrande5761 Personally I would avoid train set quality trains; they have historically been of poor quality, power packs poor motor control, rolling stock truck mounted couplers etc. The rolling stock would be a chore to upgrade to body mount Kadee couplers and other improvement. I would avoid them. If HO, would set as an absolute minmum freight cars of Athearn, MDC, Accurail, Walthers kit type - those can at least be upgraded without much effort to Kadee's and metal wheels. Of course in the past 10 or so years, there are "train sets" which have been sold that have better quality rolling stock such as Athearn RTR engines, and freight cars (Athearn train sets) and a few others, but you really need to know what your are getting. You could spend money and get some really cheap, mostly useless stuff that, in the long run, you regret buying and have to dump down the road. For N scale, Atlas makes good solid engines and rolling stock. Lifelike and Bachmann be careful of. There have been improvements in the past 10-15 years but is the stuff newer or older? It's better to be choosey and get equipment that has lasting usefullness and value.
I agree about the lower quality stuff, but like I said that is just an assumption at this point. I sent the sellers e-mails asking questions but have not heard back nor have I physically seen anything at this point. Odds are what happened in these cases is someone started a layout and lost interest for whatever reason and are just trying to recoup some of their money. I know some of the newer RTR stuff from Bachman & others is better than what they offered in the 80’s but without physically seeing it I can’t make a judgement on it. I just figured they are both close enough that they are worth a look.
MJPinSEWI I agree about the lower quality stuff, but like I said that is just an assumption at this point. I sent the sellers e-mails asking questions but have not heard back nor have I physically seen anything at this point. Odds are what happened in these cases is someone started a layout and lost interest for whatever reason and are just trying to recoup some of their money. I know some of the newer RTR stuff from Bachman & others is better than what they offered in the 80’s but without physically seeing it I can’t make a judgement on it. I just figured they are both close enough that they are worth a look.
No info from sellers, walk away.
The other thing is, do you care about the rolling stock, if they are generic trains that don't match anything real. Or are you interested in a particular RR and time period and want some or much of the equipment to look like the real things. Probably won't find much of that from batch purchases but you never know.
I don't do FB, but my wife does and there is a FB model train group where people advertise trains for sale with photo's. It's like the io groups HOSwap but FB and more photo oriented. I tend to see mostly Athearn blue box, MDC type stuff there which is a minimum I would suggest but also Atlas, ExactRail, etc. as well.
Here's the HOSwap group on Groups.io,
https://groups.io/g/HOswap/topics
There's plenty of groups and sale sights out there, if I used facebook, I'd be checking that out. Once again, I don't, wife does.
I just seen your shop pictures in the other thread.
I almost never see anything approaching decent on Craigslist. 4x8 poorly executed layout with trains set quality locos and rolling stock in dubious condition often asking hundreds of dollars.
We have had threads on what happens to my layout when I die. The dumpster is the most common answer. If one could rescue a quality layout before the dumpster, that would be great. I don't think there are many quality layouts compared to the ordinary and poor layouts.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I don't "do" Ebay but I do haunt swap meets and train shows, and estate sales that feature trains. The situation is always changing and my conclusion is that there is no rule of thumb % as to what prices should be, or are. I am not talking brass here, or tinplate, just standard commercial grade scale model trains. Sometimes you luck into astoundingly low prices. And sometimes you end up spending your money at the concession stand instead.
As the baby boom began to age and die off or move to assisted living, so within the last decade or so, we've had a geezer surplus and the amount of used trains and layouts has been growing and growing ... but it seems to me that perhaps even that is starting to taper off a little. I have a hunch the used train market is going to really tighten up in a decade or two. Not that that will bring about higher prices since the buying market will also be tightening up. Right now many swap meets consist of geezers selling to other geezers.
Nickle silver track has been around for about 60 or more years but really "won the war" oh, about 25 or 30 years ago. That is when you started to see boxes upon boxes of brass track, crossings and turnouts -- sometimes new-in-box -- sold by guys who were converting. That is becoming more rare now and when you do see brass track, the prices are almost give-away prices.
The introduction of and establishment of standards for DCC caused a change -- available trains of decent quality by which I mean Athearn diesels and Mantua diecast steam -- with nothing wrong about them, sold by guys still in the hobby, but they're not easily converted to DCC so out they go. Ditto for DC power supplies, even new in box. I have been to swap meets where guys were selling off huge boxes of toggle switches or rotary switches -- converting to DCC make it all surplus. And selling cheap. One possible exception: there seems to be a cult market for the old Marnold controls and power supplies. Anyone else notice that?
Except for a handful of train-set quality cars which retain value because they provide fodder (sometimes just the doors, or ends, or roof) for certain highly accurate prototype modeling kitbashes -- there is almost a cult like market for certain Tyco/Mantua gondolas, a certain Life Like 50' boxcar, and so on -- I see trays of train set quality rolling stock (that is, lower quality than Athearn/MDC) in HO and N often selling for a dollar. And not flying off the shelves either, by the way.
The one area where I think value seems to be retained is plastic structure kits (unbuilt). The market clearly misses (so do I) some of the AHM and IHC kits, cheap when new but often not cheap now, and some of the discontinued Walthers structures. If the kit is built then value is very much a function of the workmanship of the builder. Structures with cement slop showing are cheap.
Some of today's very nicest freight car models (the Kadee boxcars and covered hoppers, stuff from Tangent and ExactRail and Rapido, Intermountain/Red Caboose, ScaleTrains -- that kind of stuff) are so fragile that one wonders how much will be left of them when it comes their turn to be sold on the used market, after a few decades of actual layout operation. They don't take well to be jumbled up in a boxtop and stacked five deep at a swap meet!
There is no moral to this story. But a final point. You know you are an old timer when you can recall seeing guys selling off bags of horn hook couplers, back in the late 1960s/early 1970s, as Kadees won the day. And they were selling!
Dave Nelson
dknelson I don't "do" Ebay but I do haunt swap meets and train shows, and estate sales that feature trains. The situation is always changing and my conclusion is that there is no rule of thumb % as to what prices should be, or are.
I don't "do" Ebay but I do haunt swap meets and train shows, and estate sales that feature trains. The situation is always changing and my conclusion is that there is no rule of thumb % as to what prices should be, or are.
I do "do" Ebay and it is definitely a good placed to check for needed items - of course there are nutty prices on some items but just scroll on by and look for the deals. Scan regularly and it will yield decent deals for specifically needed items.
Who knows but in the past several years I've seen some good bargains for nice quality rolling stock so speculation aside, it's worth looking.
I see trays of train set quality rolling stock (that is, lower quality than Athearn/MDC) in HO and N often selling for a dollar. And not flying off the shelves either, by the way.
At the shows I go to I see endless supplies of cheap trainset trains and wonder how long people can keep bringing these endless rows of boxes to shows and only sell a few - sure they are only a couple bucks but there is enough to choke a couple landfills and supply is orders of magnitude higher than demand.
Of course it depends on how they are handled and stored, but those fragile but nice freight cars if stored in their boxes will be of interest to many, much more so than the 2 dollar box in a see of boxes Tyco.
Thanks for all of the input. I wasn’t so much looking for a value of the actual items I’m looking at but more of a general value of used items if that’s even really possible. Just say if an Athearn blue box freight car was $20 new, is a good condition used one worth $10? I know every situation is different and there is no “1 size fits all” formula for this but I know there are times that buying something pre-owned can help save money and with the prices of equipment out there it looks like I will need to do some of that. At one point I said I was out of the hobby for a few years but I used that term pretty loosely. The last time I purchased a new locomotive (Athearn) I think it was around $40ish if memory serves me correctly. That same amount of money today might get me a boxcar. I don’t have a shoestring budget for this but I don’t want to take out a second mortgage on the house either.
It’s wishful thinking to assume that used models sell for half the price of new. The going price for many used models exceeds the original list price from when they were new. If a model is out of production and people want it they will pay more than what it originally sold for. It’s supply and demand. The best way to know what the actual going price of an item is to see what similar items have recently sold for. The best example of a ‘free market’ where there are many buyers and sellers is eBay. Search for the item you are interested in and then check the box for sold items to see what recent prices were. Average them out and you will know the current value. Scale models of locomotives and rolling stock hold their value very well. Scenery items like figures (people and animals) do also. The items which lost value are used track, especially if it's brass or steel, and structures which were kits but have been assembled. Also toy grade locomotives and rolling stock are not worth much due to their poor quality and large supply.
MJPinSEWI Just say if an Athearn blue box freight car was $20 new, is a good condition used one worth $10?
Just say if an Athearn blue box freight car was $20 new, is a good condition used one worth $10?
More like Athearn blue box in many cases sold for under $10 when new except maybe those near the end before Athearn discontinued blue box.
The last time I purchased a new locomotive (Athearn) I think it was around $40ish if memory serves me correctly. That same amount of money today might get me a boxcar. I don’t have a shoestring budget for this but I don’t want to take out a second mortgage on the house either.
Again, probably near the end of blue box engine production they were selling up near $40. I think the last blue box I bought were a couple of Athearn GP40-2 bb kit loco's and I honestly can't remember what I paid. The early RTR versions sold street price between $60 and $70. The first RTR Athearn SD40T-2's could be had for around $69 street price.
There are definitely box cars that go for around $40 give or take now from ExactRail and Tangent but they are much more detailed and niceer. Moloco's very accurate box cars sell in the $50 - 56 range depending on source. They are very well done and match real box cars closely.
My budget used to be very tight and it's better now than it used to be but with the higher prices, I can still only afford so much so have to space out purchases over time. I'd love to have more Tangent freight cars but same thing - have to budget and sometimes wait and get them later.
It’s wishful thinking to assume that used models sell for half the price of new. The going price for many used models exceeds the original list price from when they were new.
As always, sometimes yes (if not high in demand) and sometimes no (highly sought after).
If a model is out of production and people want it they will pay more than what it originally sold for. It’s supply and demand. The best way to know what the actual going price of an item is to see what similar items have recently sold for. The best example of a ‘free market’ where there are many buyers and sellers is eBay. Search for the item you are interested in and then check the box for sold items to see what recent prices were. Average them out and you will know the current value.
The best way to know what the actual going price of an item is to see what similar items have recently sold for. The best example of a ‘free market’ where there are many buyers and sellers is eBay. Search for the item you are interested in and then check the box for sold items to see what recent prices were. Average them out and you will know the current value.
Ebay is one place to look but take with a grain of salt, as with anything the more you research the more you smooth out the peeks and valleys and anomalies to get a sense of worth.
MJPinSEWI Ok, the title is a tad misleading. A used layout really doesn't hold much value in itself to anyone other than the person that built it. Most people want to design & build their own layout to their own tastes & space constrictions. I am actually wondering more about what used equipment value ie rolling stock, locomoties, structures. I'll start more from the beginning. Some people following my other thread know I'm trying to get back into the hobby after a few years out of it. I would like to save some $$$ by not purchasing everything new if possible. After looking over a few dfferent sites I didn't see much for sale by itself but I did find several complete layouts for sale. Some less expensive and others a little over te top in price. Is there a good rule of thumb as to what used equipment is worth? 75% of new? 50% of new? Not worth anything & walk away? I don't like the idea of buying a complete layout but if I were to be getting it at the right price it would be a consideration.
Used DCC Ready diesel locomotives in excellent condition (no broken details), with fine details like wire grab irons, should go for between $40 and $75 depending upon road name. Less than excellent condition should be about 10 to 20 bucks less. If its not described as "runs smooth", then it probably doesn't. Its implied that NOS, New Old Stock that's never been sold, is in excellent condition. Prices should be about 10 -20 bucks higher than excellent used, IMO.
Rolling stock, again in excellent condition with fine wire details, should fetch between $15 and $35 depending upon the manufacturer and model. Rolling stock with molded on details about 10 bucks. Poor condition about 5.
Then there is shipping costs.
Assembled structures on ebay tend to be overpriced and cost a lot to ship, but some are well assembled and painted can cost way more more than in new kit form. New in the box kits really don't go for much less than the online store price, maybe a few bucks.
Most of the kits I buy are fodder for kitbashing, or 3-walled backdrop buildings. I find near junk items at train shows. Sometimes already falling apart. I complete the destruction and rebuild the kit to my desired shape and paint it. No sense tearing up a perfectly good $45 kit for that. Independent estate sale folks tend to sell used, poorly built structures dirt cheap. Excellent fodder.
- Douglas
riogrande5761For N scale, Atlas makes good solid engines and rolling stock. Lifelike and Bachmann be careful of. There have been improvements in the past 10-15 years but is the stuff newer or older?
Jim,LL hasn't been around for years their tooling was sold to Walthers including LL's P2K line and recently Atlas bought LL's N Scale tooling from Walthers.
Top end locomotives and cars is from Fox Valley and Kato..
ExactRail.Micro Trains,Intermountain,Athearn,Bowser and several other like companies offer top end cars.
I fully agree Atlas is a top notch N Scale company with a wide selection of cars and locomotives.
riogrande5761The first RTR Athearn SD40T-2's could be had for around $69 street price.
Russell
MJPinSEWIThanks for all of the input. I wasn’t so much looking for a value of the actual items I’m looking at but more of a general value of used items if that’s even really possible
Nope. It's what ever a buyer is will to pay.
Most sites like HO swap, and I'm sure with the facebook sites, you can make an offer. You can't on Ebay unless the seller gives that option.
MJPinSEWI but I know there are times that buying something pre-owned can help save money
Yes it can, I do it alot. Check out sale sites, get familar with how they work, bid on a couple of items you like, or make an offer!
Jump in and see what you can find.
There is no cut-and-dried formula for any of this.
mbinsewi MJPinSEWI Thanks for all of the input. I wasn’t so much looking for a value of the actual items I’m looking at but more of a general value of used items if that’s even really possible Nope. It's what ever a buyer is will to pay. Most sites like HO swap, and I'm sure with the facebook sites, you can make an offer. You can't on Ebay unless the seller gives that option. MJPinSEWI but I know there are times that buying something pre-owned can help save money Yes it can, I do it alot. Check out sale sites, get familar with how they work, bid on a couple of items you like, or make an offer! Jump in and see what you can find. There is no cut-and-dried formula for any of this. Mike.
MJPinSEWI Thanks for all of the input. I wasn’t so much looking for a value of the actual items I’m looking at but more of a general value of used items if that’s even really possible
While there is no cut and dried formula, say, a New In Box Proto GP7 that's listed for $99 won't sell on ebay. It will sell at about $59. Anybody who paid $99 paid too much.
Wait a few days or weeks, one will pop up at the right price. $65 is fair.
There are other rules of thumb for other manufacturers. $40 to $75 is a good range as a general rule for DCC ready locos.
$125 to $150 for DCC/Sound, maybe $175 if its a newish release. If you pay more than that, you might as well just buy it at a store and get the factory warranty.
That's diesels. I don't know steam, but my guess is that its probably 50% higher.
Doughless mbinsewi MJPinSEWI Thanks for all of the input. I wasn’t so much looking for a value of the actual items I’m looking at but more of a general value of used items if that’s even really possible Nope. It's what ever a buyer is will to pay. Most sites like HO swap, and I'm sure with the facebook sites, you can make an offer. You can't on Ebay unless the seller gives that option. MJPinSEWI but I know there are times that buying something pre-owned can help save money Yes it can, I do it alot. Check out sale sites, get familar with how they work, bid on a couple of items you like, or make an offer! Jump in and see what you can find. There is no cut-and-dried formula for any of this. Mike. While there is no cut and dried formula, say, a New In Box Proto GP7 that's listed for $99 won't sell on ebay. It will sell at about $59. Anybody who paid $99 paid too much. Wait a few days or weeks, one will pop up at the right price. $65 is fair. There are other rules of thumb for other manufacturers. $40 to $75 is a good range as a general rule for DCC ready locos. $125 to $150 for DCC/Sound, maybe $175 if its a newish release. If you pay more than that, you might as well just buy it at a store and get the factory warranty. That's diesels. I don't know steam, but my guess is that its probably 50% higher.
This is all great information. If I were to decide to go look at one of these I wouldn't have time to post things & wait for responses. You have to look at the items, make a determination if it is worth buying and go from there.
Some people prefer to just seek out the particular items they want and go buy them. I don't have an issue purchasing a large group, keeping what I want and selling the rest. I have done this in the past & gotten some great deals although not nessecarily with trains but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Several years back, when I took a job as maintenence mechanic, I needed a good size tool chest for work. I found one about 2 hours away for $200 OBO. It wasn't perfect but it would work. So I offered $150 and got turned down saying he was staying firm on his price. Apparently he didn't know what OBO meant. I said the only way I would give him $200 was if he left everything in it. He said OK so I handed him the cash and loaded it up as fast as I could. It was filled with high quality machinists tools, taps, dies, micrometers, calipers, gage blocks and tons of other stuff. He had gotten it from his father when he passed & obviously didn't know what he had. I kept the tools & things that I wanted and could use and sold the rest off pocketing over $1000. I'm not saying this will happen with model trains but there are deals out there to be had if you're not afraid to look but you also need to have an idea what things are worth before you start.
If there is something new in the post, just above this one, I can't pick it out.
riogrande5761 MJPinSEWI I agree about the lower quality stuff, but like I said that is just an assumption at this point. I sent the sellers e-mails asking questions but have not heard back nor have I physically seen anything at this point. Odds are what happened in these cases is someone started a layout and lost interest for whatever reason and are just trying to recoup some of their money. I know some of the newer RTR stuff from Bachman & others is better than what they offered in the 80’s but without physically seeing it I can’t make a judgement on it. I just figured they are both close enough that they are worth a look. No info from sellers, walk away. The other thing is, do you care about the rolling stock, if they are generic trains that don't match anything real. Or are you interested in a particular RR and time period and want some or much of the equipment to look like the real things. Probably won't find much of that from batch purchases but you never know. I don't do FB, but my wife does and there is a FB model train group where people advertise trains for sale with photo's. It's like the io groups HOSwap but FB and more photo oriented. I tend to see mostly Athearn blue box, MDC type stuff there which is a minimum I would suggest but also Atlas, ExactRail, etc. as well.
I don't plan to model a prototype railroad but probably freelance my own branch line so most of the cars & locomotives will be purchased from other railroads.
I see the problem. When you "Add Quote to your Post" there are often a lot of extra blank spaces. Scroll down
The end of the quote looks like (/quote) except the ( ) are square brackets
Enter what you have to say, after that, and it won't be lost in the grayed out quote area.
One thing that would really help is if you posted the specific links of listing that you are eyeing. Then we can give you a more specific yes or no on if it is worth getting or not.
I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.
BigDaddy I see the problem. When you "Add Quote to your Post" there are often a lot of extra blank spaces. Scroll down The end of the quote looks like (/quote) except the ( ) are square brackets Enter what you have to say, after that, and it won't be lost in the grayed out quote area.
My fault. That’s what I get for not paying attention to what I’m doing.
BNSF UP and others modeler One thing that would really help is if you posted the specific links of listing that you are eyeing. Then we can give you a more specific yes or no on if it is worth getting or not.
If only it were that easy. If I am at an estate sale or a train show I can hardly come on the forum, post the question, and wait for an answer before buying.
MJPinSEWIMy fault. That’s what I get for not paying attention to what I’m doing.
I'm not busting your chops, just looking for clarity.
All the best