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Three of John Allen's afflicted Locomotives

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Posted by drgwcs on Friday, February 22, 2019 9:22 AM

Steven Otte

I'm dubious, for two reasons. First, our former executive editor, Andy Sperandeo, always referred to the G&D locomotive in his office (which now resides in Model Railroader's historical display case) as the last surviving G&D locomotive. The Japanese website says that these three were "excavated from the burned-out G&D," which doesn't directly contradict Andy's story, but since Andy is no longer with us, we can't ask him for clarification.

Second, the site says "Mr. Matsumoto has three locomotives ... that Mr. John Allen excavated from the burned-out G & D railroad." As we all know, the fire that destroyed the G&D happened after John Allen died. This timeline contradiction could be due to poor translation from the Japanese, or a mistake on the part of Mr. Matsumoto or the blogger. So again, it's not a definitive error. But it does make me doubtful.

 

Could it be that since the locomotives in the satchel surfaced later in 2009 and weren't highly publicized? The ones on Mr Matsumotos site look like exact matches to the the ones found in the satchel. (allowing for a little damage in shipping. Looking at the other locomotives in the "satchel gallery" they look like like matches for the other G&D locos- there is even "ghost lettering" where you can see the remains of the heralds. The poor things have obviously been through a fire and had it not been for their heritage would have been long ago thrown in the trash. Here is a direct link to the gallery-  http://gdlines.org/GDLines/Satchel/album/index.html  the ones that appear to be a match to Mr Matsumoto's are on the first and second page.I attached a couple of examples

From Mr Matsumoto's page

From the Satchel gallery

Even though the step is missing - the paint matches- bubbled up areas that are bare even match- there is an indent on the headlight where the hole is even. The others look like good matches.

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Posted by MJ4562 on Friday, February 22, 2019 8:56 AM

Steven Otte

I'm dubious, for two reasons. First, our former executive editor, Andy Sperandeo, always referred to the G&D locomotive in his office (which now resides in Model Railroader's historical display case) as the last surviving G&D locomotive. The Japanese website says that these three were "excavated from the burned-out G&D," which doesn't directly contradict Andy's story, but since Andy is no longer with us, we can't ask him for clarification.

Second, the site says "Mr. Matsumoto has three locomotives ... that Mr. John Allen excavated from the burned-out G & D railroad." As we all know, the fire that destroyed the G&D happened after John Allen died. This timeline contradiction could be due to poor translation from the Japanese, or a mistake on the part of Mr. Matsumoto or the blogger. So again, it's not a definitive error. But it does make me doubtful.

 

Wasn't John's brother still alive?  Could that be the Mr. Allen referred to?  Still, I share your skepticism.  

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Posted by MJ4562 on Friday, February 22, 2019 8:54 AM

Interesting find all the way around.  I'm surprised they look that good after surviving a house fire.  Damage almost seems purely cosmetic to the paint.

Moderator
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Posted by Steven Otte on Friday, February 22, 2019 8:52 AM

I'm dubious, for two reasons. First, our former executive editor, Andy Sperandeo, always referred to the G&D locomotive in his office (which now resides in Model Railroader's historical display case) as the last surviving G&D locomotive. The Japanese website says that these three were "excavated from the burned-out G&D," which doesn't directly contradict Andy's story, but since Andy is no longer with us, we can't ask him for clarification.

Second, the site says "Mr. Matsumoto has three locomotives ... that Mr. John Allen excavated from the burned-out G & D railroad." As we all know, the fire that destroyed the G&D happened after John Allen died. This timeline contradiction could be due to poor translation from the Japanese, or a mistake on the part of Mr. Matsumoto or the blogger. So again, it's not a definitive error. But it does make me doubtful.

--
Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editor
sotte@kalmbach.com

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Posted by drgwcs on Friday, February 22, 2019 8:44 AM

dehusman

How does he know if they are actually G&D engines?  There does not appear to be any lettering on them and the G&D engines were lettered.  Plus the G&D engines had steps added under the cab doors, which these models lack.  The couplers don't have trip pins and there are the curious holes in the headlights.

 

Here is a link to the story on these engines- they are a match to the photos here. Not sure about the missing steps on the one but the bare metal damaged spots are an exact match. (maybe the steps came off in shipping- these poor engines have been through a lot) Even the paint that looks loose has peeled off exactly as it would have naturally. There is an indent in the headlight in one of the older photos. My suspicion is that they got a slight amount of shipping damage- probably wouldn't have affected most locos but these have been through a fire. They were removed from the layout after the fire- all were heavily damaged with most worse than these. There is a link on this page to a gallery of the engines. The http://gdlines.org/GDLines/The_Satchel2.html

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Posted by BN7150 on Friday, February 22, 2019 7:54 AM

Oh! Horyuji-Temple!

The mural painting in National Treasure painted in the 7th century were destroyed by fire in 1949 and the debris was preserved safely.

In Japan, it is thought that the GD line is the subject of respect for not only the West but also the world railroad modelers. The photographs were frequently posted on large images in a Japanese magazine named "Railroad Model Hobby (abbreviated as TMS)." It is said that John Allen was pleased because the color image quality surpassed the MR and RMC.

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, February 22, 2019 7:38 AM

How does he know if they are actually G&D engines?  There does not appear to be any lettering on them and the G&D engines were lettered.  Plus the G&D engines had steps added under the cab doors, which these models lack.  The couplers don't have trip pins and there are the curious holes in the headlights.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by BN7150 on Friday, February 22, 2019 7:12 AM

A "#8 American sewing machine" is:

As you already know, 4-4-0 (Mantua) for No.8 locomotive, 0-4-0T (Varney-diecast) for No.9, 0-4-0T (PFM / Sakura) for No.10 is there. This author wrote that the No.8 is "number 8 engine, which is American (4-4-0)," on the premise that the readers know the GD line well. Engine in Japanese is also expressed as machine. And generally speaking, machine means sewing machine only. It was just a dreadful Google translation.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, February 22, 2019 5:53 AM

Wow, they compared the GORRE AND DAPHETID to the Horyuji Temple!

.

Do they think that we westerners worshipped the G&D?

.

Did we?

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, February 21, 2019 4:07 PM

BigDaddy

The translate box is a Chrome thing, but using any browser, you can copy the real link into the left box at;

https://translate.google.com

Then click on the right box translation

 

Okay.  Thank you.  Now I only have to figure out what a "#8 American sewing machine" is.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, February 21, 2019 3:36 PM

The translate box is a Chrome thing, but using any browser, you can copy the real link into the left box at;

https://translate.google.com

Then click on the right box translation

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 21, 2019 3:23 PM

maxman
Maybe if someone tells us how to translate the page.

I'm using Chrome, and when I open his link, there is a box in the upper right corner that lets you translate.  I'm thinking it's a Chrome thing?  I haven't tried it Fire Fox or IE.  I switched to Chrome a couple of weeks ago, and this site, Photo Bucket, and all others work great!

Mike.

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, February 21, 2019 3:18 PM

mbinsewi
I'm sure others in here will be interested in this.

Maybe if someone tells us how to translate the page....................

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 21, 2019 2:23 PM

Great picture.  The condition of the locomotives is something.  I love the narrative under the picture, especially describing "With model fans over a certain age,-----"

I'm sure others in here will be interested in this.

Thank you,

Mike.

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Three of John Allen's afflicted Locomotives
Posted by BN7150 on Thursday, February 21, 2019 1:30 PM

Do you know that 3 John Allen's locomotives have come to Japan? It is said that Kenichi Matsumoto was entrusted with repair. Look at about a quarter from the top of this homepage.

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