I nominate the B&LE 2-10-4 as absolutely the coolest steam engine never modeled in HO.
Never with one caveat: Balls of Brass (Jon Winston) did have 5 Challenger Imports DM&IR 2-10-4's (prototype secondhand B&LE engines) modified to represent the original B&LE versions, but good luck ever seeing or finding one of those models.
The Nickel Plate Products B&LE 2-10-4 is just well...not right for B&LE, so it does not count as a B&LE steam model.
My Dad grew up in Butler, PA, where long 160 car trains of iron ore one direction and coal the other direction, with three of those gorgeous 2-10-4's, were commonplace.
John
Regarding what we hope to see manufacturers produce, we have been comparately blessed in recent years with BLI's efforts to produce some New Haven steam power and the T&P 2-10-4 (also because as a Freedom Train engine and 1970's fan trip boomer it can be painted in many schemes).
But nobody gonna produce some of the lesser known steam power for some of these roads...
I would love to see a B&LE 2-10-4 from BLI someday! It would be the one steamer I would buy. (otherwise my layout is completely dieselized)
The most popular by who? The manufacturer or modeler? Remember, from the fifties through the eighties, manufacturers put any name on everything, Athearn anybody? Penn Central steam decals? Modelers probably are more regonional, here in upstate New York, at train shows I see more D&H, Lehigh Valley, EL, Conrail, then NYC or NH stuff.
As for unmodeled, how about the fallen flags, LNE, LHR,OW, and the plethora of short lines through out the country?
Me, I model the late sixties,New Haven, that's what I grew up near. Plus there's a good selection of locos, and rolling stock to model. MH
I wonder if manufacturers deliberately shipped more of certain railroads to specific geographic regions. I grew up in the Northeast, and Pennsylvania and B&O were everywhere.
While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store.
In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order.
I can't imagine the model train biz was any different.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Though Rio Grande is probably the most popular with narrow gauge modelers, I don't know of too many who model Rio Grande standard gauge steam. I'm one of the few and it's never been easy, since most of the locos have only been available in brass, and not that easy to get hold of even then. I've been in the hobby a long time and managed to build up a pretty good roster of D&RGW steamers by diligently searching and doing a little kit-bashing here and there. For some time at my favorite hobby store, the joke was, if they happened to get a Rio Grande steamer in--either new or on consignment--"Has anyone called Tom about this, yet?" But as I said, over time, I've built up a decent roster, and since my MR is set during WWII, I can also implement them with "foreign" power "on loan" so that I don't have to pass up any of my other favorite locos.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Another great railroad to consider is the Virginian. West end run with side rod triple headed electric engines and the east end all FM tainmasters except one GE 44 tonner. Small passenger trains of about 4 cars and built to rival any clas 1 rr.
Search the internet for "AAR reporting marks", and you can get a long list of railroads.
Also...
Tom White ! .... Great to see you posting in the forum again ! .... Feel free to post more !
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
BigDaddyWhile Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different.
Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury.
Shock Control I wonder if manufacturers deliberately shipped more of certain railroads to specific geographic regions. I grew up in the Northeast, and Pennsylvania and B&O were everywhere.
First, back in the day manufacturers shipped their products to regional distributors, who then sold it to local shops.
The manufacturers do not decide what to ship where, distributors or shops order what they want from the available products. And then they reorder based on sales.
Here in Maryland, we sold more PRR and B&O then UP or Santa Fe. But we always had a few western roads in stock, and they did sell enough to make it worth stocking them.
But ideas about business were different then, and the way our model trains were produced and distributed was different then.
Retailers believed selection was important, and closeout sales were rare.
Any given product was actually more "available" then they are today, but the total selection even being made then was much smaller.
Many good shops would have 80% to 90% of the Athearn product line in stock all the time. Even the small shops I worked in had sizable inventories of things like Athearn kits.
Sheldon
Or one could say, some subsets of major lines modeled are seldom modeled themselves. Such as the Eel River line/Butler Branch of the PRR, from Logansport up to Butler Indiana. Carried major war time traffic behind PRR N class 2-10-2's, then quickly fell into disrepair after the war, with most of it abandoned or gone long before the shortline craze in the late 80's and early 1990s. For steam, correct BC&G motive power has never really been done exactly. One can take a USRA 0-8-0 and add the pilot truck and deck to create one of thier 2-8-0's. or the C&O G9 class to make up the 13, which became L&ER No1 thru the 80's, then to the age of steam roundhouse as 13 again. BLI did a #13, but its not correct when compared to the real one. The Overland Brass G9 is closer, espically the odd driver spacing. Mike the Aspie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
Shock Control BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury.
BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different.
And that has bearing on this question how?
Model train manufacturers have no way to "control" how or where their products are sold once they leave their warehouse.
Shock ControlClothing is a necessity.
Not if it's an ugly sport coat or tie. Those don't even sell on closeout prices.
...
ATLANTIC CENTRAL BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury. And that has bearing on this question how? Model train manufacturers have no way to "control" how or where their products are sold once they leave their warehouse. Sheldon
BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury.
Korla Pandit's Fantasy LPs are much more available in the LA region than they are in the Northeast.
BigDaddyNot if it's an ugly sport coat or tie. Those don't even sell on closeout prices.
.
My middle daughter went through an "Avril Lavigne" phase in early high school where she wanted to wear a sport coat with every outfit. This would have been around 2003-2004.
I was amazed at how inexpensive small ugly sport coats were!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Shock Control ATLANTIC CENTRAL BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury. And that has bearing on this question how? Model train manufacturers have no way to "control" how or where their products are sold once they leave their warehouse. Sheldon Korla Pandit's Fantasy LPs are much more available in the LA region than they are in the Northeast.
Who? Exactly, it is based on demand, not directed by the supply.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury. And that has bearing on this question how? Model train manufacturers have no way to "control" how or where their products are sold once they leave their warehouse. Sheldon Korla Pandit's Fantasy LPs are much more available in the LA region than they are in the Northeast. Who? Exactly, it is based on demand, not directed by the supply. Sheldon
BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury. And that has bearing on this question how? Model train manufacturers have no way to "control" how or where their products are sold once they leave their warehouse. Sheldon Korla Pandit's Fantasy LPs are much more available in the LA region than they are in the Northeast.
BigDaddy While Sheldon worked in the train store, I was in the family men's clothing store. In the rag business, we ordered everything from tie tacks to suits. WE picked the colors, patterns, sizes and amounts. Manufacturers didn't have any discretion to deliberately send us anything we didn't order. I can't imagine the model train biz was any different. Clothing is a necessity. Toy trains are a luxury. And that has bearing on this question how? Model train manufacturers have no way to "control" how or where their products are sold once they leave their warehouse. Sheldon
That was my whole point! And you really need to check out Korla Pandit! You can find pictures of him with his HO trains! Tell 'em Shock Control sent ya!
Well, Shock Control, to each their own.
I have a very large music collection, over 1700 vinyl albums, 800 music CD's, I design speaker systems as a hobby. I still have every record I ever bought, starting at age 15, most only played on my high quality equipment and in exceptional condition.
My music collection covers a wide range of era's and genres, but I don't have or want any Korla Pandit.
I might suggest you check out John Prine, or Jerry Jeff Walker, or Shel Silverstein.....
My taste runs from AC/DC to Carol King, from Hank Jr to Billy Joel, from the Moody blues to Neil Diamond, from Kris Kristofferson to Boston, from Patsy Cline to the Beach Boys.
But again, no Korla Pandit.......
And again, in 1976 when I managed the train department in a hobby shop in Maryland, B&O out sold UP 10 to 1, and I'm sure in LA the numbers were reversed.
But not by any doing on the part of the manufacturers.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And again, in 1976 when I managed the train department in a hobby shop in Maryland, B&O out sold UP 10 to 1, and I'm sure in LA the numbers were reversed.
I'm actualy from LA (I assume you mean "LA" as in Los Angeles and not Louisiana), but historically speaking and in terms of general visibility, the Union Pacific wasn't really a huge player in terms of railroads here, at least compared to the Southern Pacific (their tracks were everywhere and so was their affiliated electric interurban subsidiary, the Pacific Electric). The Santa Fe also played a huge role in the development of certain Southern California suburbs, and was a close #2 here, but the UP wasn't as influential in the region (they were more known for their passenger lines than freight). It wasn't until after they acquired the SP that the UP became a major railroad in this area.
Although I'm west-biased, I would tend to think the Santa Fe was the most popular railroad ever (this coming from someone who currently models the UP, and formerly the SP). The warbonnet F-units were true icons, immortalized by Lionel and nearly every other train set maker, and even if you asked someone who isn't really familiar with trains to name a railroad, they'll most likely say "Santa Fe."
ATLANTIC CENTRALWho? Exactly, it is based on demand, not directed by the supply. Sheldon
When I worked in a hobby shop I seen distributors have close out sales on road names that was poor sellers.
I can also recall the turn from Athearn BB engines to Atlas and Life Like P2K locomotives.At the shop where I worked Athearn engines collected dust while Atlas and LL P2K sold like pancakes at IHOP.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE ATLANTIC CENTRAL Who? Exactly, it is based on demand, not directed by the supply. Sheldon When I worked in a hobby shop I seen distributors have close out sales on road names that was poor sellers. I can also recall the turn from Athearn BB engines to Atlas and Life Like P2K locomotives.At the shop where I worked Athearn engines collected dust while Atlas and LL P2K sold like pancakes at IHOP.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Who? Exactly, it is based on demand, not directed by the supply. Sheldon
In those days it was way more likely for a distributor to have a closeout than for a retailer to have a closeout.
The distributor had to buy a whole case, so slow moving items represented more money tied up.
Retailers could buy just one of a slow item just to have a good selection.
I remember those days too, the Atlas locos did slow the sales of Athearn, but I also remember before the Atlas locos, I started in the first shop in 1970.
Metro Red Line ATLANTIC CENTRAL And again, in 1976 when I managed the train department in a hobby shop in Maryland, B&O out sold UP 10 to 1, and I'm sure in LA the numbers were reversed. I'm actualy from LA (I assume you mean "LA" as in Los Angeles and not Louisiana), but historically speaking and in terms of general visibility, the Union Pacific wasn't really a huge player in terms of railroads here, at least compared to the Southern Pacific (their tracks were everywhere and so was their affiliated electric interurban subsidiary, the Pacific Electric). The Santa Fe also played a huge role in the development of certain Southern California suburbs, and was a close #2 here, but the UP wasn't as influential in the region (they were more known for their passenger lines than freight). It wasn't until after they acquired the SP that the UP became a major railroad in this area. Although I'm west-biased, I would tend to think the Santa Fe was the most popular railroad ever (this coming from someone who currently models the UP, and formerly the SP). The warbonnet F-units were true icons, immortalized by Lionel and nearly every other train set maker, and even if you asked someone who isn't really familiar with trains to name a railroad, they'll most likely say "Santa Fe."
OK, substitute ATSF, SP or any major western road, point remains, interest is often, but not completely regional, but not becuase of any action by the manufacturers.
I've spent little time out west, I have very little interest in western roads. Actually, it has more to do with not having any interest in modeling western scenery........
I do have a passing interest in the Southern Pacific............
But just to note also, have have little interest in trains from the era of my "youth", or present day, I model a time before I was even born, but in the region I have spent my whole life in.
Morristown & Erie Railway, 9mi, still active
Raritan River Railroad, 12 mi, became part of Conrail
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
I understand where Sheldon is going with his clothing analogy. If a model train company makes a "dud" roadname wise, either they or the hobby shops will be stuck with unsold stock on the shelf, which will have to be marked down till it sells. Even if it is at a loss. The brass industry has been avoiding this for many years by taking "reservations" and when enough models are reserved, they make the model. If not enough modelers/collectors are interested, the project is canceled. This is now filtering down to the plastic side of the hobby, mostly in reguards to locomotives. So we take the explosion of shortlines, many are mostly unknown outside of the local modeling community, espicialy before the internet came about. To warrent making those odd ball road names in a mass production enviroment just didnt make sense for many years, and many companies still do not offer many if any shortline/unknown paint schemes. This leaves modelers to seek out decal makers and custom painters to create those models. Right now I am looking for someone to paint a brass GP40 into the Lake State Railways newest paint scheme, which nobody offers otherwise. One of Michigan's most successful shortlines, moving from a mostly Alco powered line to nice looking EMD power, engines are kept amazingly clean. The Lake State Railway would be another one of those seldom modeled, modern shortlines. But if locomotives were offered, say all of the 6300 series SD40-2's(rebuilt SD40's), espicaly if Kato did them, then that line might see more demand for rolling stock to be offered. With the lack of custom painters, the cost of having said work done, and the general loss of those ablities by many in the modeling group, allows the manufactures to somewhat "steer" what lines are modeled by what they offer in locomotives and rolling stock.
emdmikeThe Lake State Railway would be another one of those seldom modeled, modern shortlines.
I just had to check that out. Nice short line, and their paint scheme is great!
https://www.lsrc.com/
Thanks!
Mike.
My You Tube
The LSR certainly does have a terrific website and video.
Russ
Modeling the early '50s Erie in Paterson, NJ. Here's the link to my railroad postcard collection: https://railroadpostcards.blogspot.com/
I agree that sales are regional and so are tastes. I lived most of my life in California and have also lived in Oregon and Nevada. When I was little I lived in Chicago. I’ve always lived in railroad towns. My influences were from what I saw every day. I model Santa Fe and also Southern Pacific since they are the two major railroads in southern California and the two I was around the most often. Union Pacific is around but it’s number three. Even today locals still call BNSF, ‘Santa Fe’ and Union Pacific is still ‘the old Southern Pacific’. As for regional sales I will say that I buy models from western railroads. I mostly have Santa Fe and Southern Pacific/Cotton Belt locomotives but I also have a couple from Union Pacific, Rio Grande, and one from Chicago Northwestern. Most of my rolling stock is the same, Santa Fe, Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, Burlington Northern, and some Oregon shortlines which primarily ship lumber. I do have some other rolling stock but the vast majority is from the west. I also have some old time Virginia and Truckee because I used to live in Reno Nevada. Other old time locomotives include Central Pacific and rolling stock from Central Pacific, Union Pacific.
My layout, except for a couple of interchange connections represented by short on-layout tracks, doesn't represent any prototype railroad. I do have a few CNR locos and will have at least a couple of TH&B locos (they're both direct interchange partners) but I do have a fairly wide-ranging collection of freight cars from all over North America...Canada, the U.S., and Mexico.The reason for that is that I grew up in Hamilton, Ontario, at that time the most industrialised city in Canada, and makers of just about anything anybody could want or need. As a result, the trains I saw were made-up of cars from all over North America.
My layout is freelanced, with real place names, none of which resemble their prototypes. The freight cars, mostly, are based on real ones, with most built to match photos in books or photos I've taken. I can't say for sure if any are the exact cars I saw (well, perhaps a couple) but they're representative of what was around at that time, and there's no reason to doubt that the selection of roads would have been any less in the late '30s, the era I'm modelling, even if it was before my time.Interchange on the real railroads is part of your modeller's licence to allow you to represent other roads on your layout, even if you don't model those roads or live in the area where they operate. And nowadays, with run-through locomotives, power sharing, etc., it's not unusual to see "foreign" roadnames on the headend of a train.
Wayne
doctorwayneInterchange on the real railroads is part of your modeler's license to allow you to represent other roads on your layout, even if you don't model those roads or live in the area where they operate. And nowadays, with run-through locomotives, power-sharing, etc., it's not unusual to see "foreign" road names on the head-end of a train.
And right you are, Wayne. There are plenty of photos of Eastern passenger trains with a Western sleeping car in the consist as an example of passenger cars being interchanged and the same is true for express cars as well. In an interchange yard or on an interchange track, the connecting railroad's locos certainly would be seen and are worth modeling. On my new layout currently under construction, the DL&W interchanges with the Erie at an Erie freight transfer yard. I have a DL&W GP7 that will make a regular guest appearance to pick up cars and, in the future, a Lackawanna caboose to be set off on the side until the train is put together and ready to leave.
I always revert to Santa Fe though live in the east...Dad just wanted me to stick with one road...now he's gone.
I got a lot of verbal ribbing for being the only "Santa Fe guy" who worked for the local train store (and also Bowser).
Even now they have few Santa Fe customers. There are about 20 regular suspects in PA and the store sales manager knows most by name.
Most train stores in the east do not have much western stuff and never did; it is hard to find all that much even at shows. The larger shops order about two of every Genesis item, as an example, because they know they will sell mail order, and in PA, two of every Santa Fe item would satisfy us few diehards most of the time. Oddly enough, here in Central PA, the SP units with the SP light package do well! My friends order extras of them because they go. The Halloween Scheme Geep SP unit I was contemplating is already gone...
They buy two of each BLI steamer as a minimum order figuring they will sell over the counter or in the mail, but that is a large store connected to TTH. I dont expect my (small shop) buddy or the smaller shops who remain to cater to western road fans.
We lost a lot of small train stores here the last couple years. Some were irascible owners. They all gone now. Now only one store remains near state capitol at all.