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Devore depressed center flat car

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, February 12, 2021 10:52 AM

No, I am talking about bad castings and bad design, kinda crud but it could be reworked but not without a lot of time and effort.

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Friday, February 12, 2021 10:33 AM

dhnelson - General Steel Castings had a line of cast steel flatcars that had no rivets, bolts, etc used in their construction, so the lack of detail may be prototypical (same thing with welded fabrication)

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/314266880220228868/

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Posted by rrebell on Thursday, February 11, 2021 8:03 PM

Finnaly got arroud to building the Eastern, found the molds were not great and took a lot of filing to get it close. Their instructions are very bad too. Put one together but not happy with it.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, October 9, 2019 11:45 AM

I did some work on this project this week. I test fit the Foo Dog statue to the car, and it fits beautifully. It really makes a unique load.

I test fit the trucks, and the car sat way too high to look right to my eye.

I filed away about 1/8" of material from each truck mounting post, and the new low ride looks much better to me.

The loaded flat car compared to a 10' 6" I.H. boxcar. The Foo Dog load sits about 3/8" taller than the peak of the boxcar. Perfect! I love it when a plan comes together.

More updates will ocassionally follow.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, September 2, 2019 1:19 PM

rrebell
Which trucks did you use ?

They are Kadee trucks with 33 inch wheels. I believe these are the ASF "Ride Control" trucks.

-Kevin

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Posted by rrebell on Monday, September 2, 2019 12:31 PM

Which trucks did you use ?

 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, September 2, 2019 10:44 AM

rrebell
Don't know if I mentioned but I picked up two of the Eastern for a cheap price on e-bay.

The Eastern Car Works kit builds into a nice model.

I built for the STRATTON AND GILLETTE. This was one the first HO scale kits I assembled after making the switch from N scale.

The only problem I had was how much of the sub-frame I had to remove to get clearance for the trucks and wheels.  If I were to build another, I would remove the ends of the frame and replace them with Tichy bolsters.

-Kevin

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Posted by rrebell on Monday, September 2, 2019 9:16 AM

Don't know if I mentioned but I picked up two of the Eastern for a cheap price on e-bay.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, September 2, 2019 12:30 AM

Big problem with this kit, it is VERY light. The metal casting that makes up the car only weighs about 1/2 of an ounce. There is also nowhere to add weight.

Well... the easiest way to add weight to a flatcar is with the load.

I have been looking for an unusual, but suitable load for this car. I found an interesting Male Foo Dog On Plinth statue from a company that makes 32mm Chinese Military Miniatures.

It is the perfect size, and the perfect weight. When installed on the depressed deck of the flatcar the statue will be about 1/4" taller than a 10' 6" boxcar. It also weighs 2 3/4 ounces.

It should be easy to paint it to look like a carved marble statue.

I finally have a nice looking oversized load and the weight problem is solved, so now I can continue.

-Kevin

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, November 24, 2018 1:07 PM

7j43k
...the Kadee and the X2f couplers worked with a sideways push.

I recall trying many times to execute a "flying switch" (or flying drop) using the K-type couplers.  The procedure was to run the train over the diamond-shaped uncoupling ramp at high speed, then just before the last car reached the ramp, press the button which raised the ramp and, almost simultaneously, flip the turnout control to guide the cut-off car to its destination.
Unfortunately, most of the cars (at least the ones I had) had metal wheels and axles in cast metal sideframes, and were not noted for their fine rolling qualities.  I don't recall any of those drops where the car actually rolled far enough into the siding to even clear the turnout, much less arrive where it should have.

Wayne

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, November 24, 2018 11:36 AM

The Devore opened by pushing up.  The Kadee by pushing sideways.

It's somewhat interesting that the Devore and the Mantua loop couplers and the Baker couplers all operated with an upwards push, while the Kadee and the X2f couplers worked with a sideways push.

 

Ed

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Posted by rrebell on Saturday, November 24, 2018 11:29 AM

Devore and Kadee at the time used a ramp. The little ball at the end of the Devore helped a bit but both had their downsides. The extra way to open a Devore was an advantage but was lost as soon as magnetics came in. Now all this is from memory, been awhile to say the least.

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, November 24, 2018 11:23 AM

I'm not sure the Roundhouse/ (Devore?) couplers were better.

They DO look a bit more prototypical than the Kadee.  They also look like they have less slack-action when the couplers are mated--another plus.  But it operated by pushing up on that air hose thingy.  I get the impression that that wasn't always successful, what with possible binding and sliding friction between parts.  And I recall the Kadee K's being very reliable.

I got into HO in 1959.  Within a year, I had decided that Kadee's K series (no magnetics yet) couplers would be my standard.  I cannot recall whether that was because they were the most POPULAR "realistic" coupler at the time, or whether Kadee, by their advertising, convinced me of it.  But Kadee was my choice.

The only operating knuckle couplers of the day that come to mind are the Kadees and the Roundhouse.  Any others?

 

Ed

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Posted by dknelson on Saturday, November 24, 2018 11:04 AM

Devore first advertised its working knuckle coupler in 1949 but about three or four years later they were advertising what they billed as a totally new and greatly improved version (which visually looked about the same).  If I read their MR ad correctly the big improvement was that it opened automatically when coming in contact with another coupler.  

Both versions were mechanical not magnetic.  

This was at a time when NMRA standards were established and commonly accepted but the coupler was the last frontier of uniformity (something the NMRA attempted to resolve with results that are all too familiar).  What is odd is how couplers which actually looked like the real thing such as Devore seemed to have no particular advantage over those which did not (but which did couple reliably, such as Mantua and Baker).

Having said that, going through older issues of MR to find ads from Devore (and Comet/Authenticast) showed that Devore was a VERY irregular advertiser in Model Railroader, more so than Comet/Authenticast, which suggests it had cash flow or capitalization challenges.  With nearly every coupler of the era being utterly proprietary, I bet not many guys probably wanted to commit their entire fleet to a coupler which had an uncertain supply or future.  I imagine those who have looked into switching over to Sergent Engineering scale sized couplers in HO or S have thought the same thing, although Sergent now has a two-decade track record at least.

Dave Nelson

 

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Posted by rrebell on Saturday, November 24, 2018 8:44 AM

Here we have an example of the best dose not always become the standard. The Devore was a better coupler than the Kadee at this time (eaisier to uncouple with being able to use a ramp or the projection on the top) but things changed when Kadee went magnetic, others tried but theirs were crude and Kadee became the standard. Devore never came out with a magnetic version that I am aware of.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, November 23, 2018 9:47 PM

My Authenticast model of a depressed centre flatcar appears to be identical to the Devore model, and mine likely came with the same couplers, as I have a few of those type in with some older parts.  My car was assembled and painted (likely by my Dad) when I got it for Christmas in, I think, 1955. 
However, it, and all of the other HO freight cars and locomotives which I received at that time were equipped with Kadee K-type couplers, which featured remote mechanical uncoupling.

I searched in vain for a connection between Devore and Authenticast (Comet Metal Products Co. Inc.), but learned that the latter was established in 1919, and during WW II, produced "identification models" of ships and tanks for the U.S. military.

Here are some better photos of the Authenticast car...

The trucks were originally all-metal, with individual springs, but I replaced them with the MDC ones shown.  The original sill steps were wire, while the replacement ones, shown, are from A-Line.

The car came with two cast-metal ship propellers as a load (not exactly qualifying as a "high" or "wide" load), along with the instruction sheet showing four cast-metal models of American tanks.  List price, shown as part of the instruction sheet, for the flatcar was $2.50.

Here's the box...

...and the instructions...

The original couplers...

...and the Kadee K-Type....

Wayne

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, November 23, 2018 5:32 PM

those couplers work by the way, they are just not Kadee

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, November 23, 2018 5:16 PM

The Devore depressed center flat arrived today.

First glance is very impressive. The one piece metal body casting is a lot thinner and lighter than I expected. 

It came with a dozen freight car truck bushings. These will be handy for future projects. The cast metal dummy couplers look very good, and these will find their way into other projects.

The coupler boxes are set up for Kadee #4 couplers. These will be replaced with insulated plastic coupler boxes and 20 series insulated couplers.

I do not think the trucks included are what came with the kit originally.

The brake wheels and staffs are very impressive.

I will start construction in a few weeks.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 5:19 PM

rrebell

Need a depressed center flat car for the late 1930's. Found one of these offered but don't know anything about the time frame it represents or the length. I want a highly detailed model but that just dosn't seem to be out there so I thought with some work, this might work? Don't want to start from total scratch.

 

Well, I watched that flatcar for almost three weeks thinking about it, and I just pulled the trigger and bought it. I could not wait any longer.

I will post pictures of how the kit goes together.

-Kevin

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, November 4, 2018 10:56 AM

FWIW, MFCL says:

The Walthers 4-axle depressed center flat is a model of SOO 54003, 54005, 54007.  Bought to ship transformers out of Milwaukee.  Later to:  WC 35850-35852.

 

Ed

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Posted by dknelson on Sunday, November 4, 2018 10:44 AM

gmpullman
The Walther's Gold 90 ton DP flat makes a pretty good starting point, IMHO. It is die-cast metal so runs pretty well when empty.

Agreed.  It has been discontinued for some time now.  Sometimes that means it is gone forever but with Walthers sometimes things reappear when you least expect them.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, November 3, 2018 6:17 AM

rrebell

The Eastern car works looks promising with some changes.

 

The Walther's Gold 90 ton DP flat makes a pretty good starting point, IMHO. It is die-cast metal so runs pretty well when empty.

https://www.walthers.com/gold-line-tm-4-axle-90-ton-gsc-depressed-center-flatcar-ready-to-run-new-york-central

 IMG_9718_fix_web by Edmund, on Flickr

 IMG_9711_fix_web by Edmund, on Flickr

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by rrebell on Saturday, November 3, 2018 5:11 AM

The Eastern car works looks promising with some changes.

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Posted by rrebell on Saturday, November 3, 2018 5:09 AM

Wow, the well car looks an older vintage than the depressed, even though it isn't. Has Funaro improved, they were not very good when they first started out but that was a long time ago. Hey thanks for all the imput, much harder to do resurch now adays on google, they always have non related stuff pop up alot sooner on the list than they used to. That has become a problem on e-bay too, hard to do misspelling searches there now.

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, November 2, 2018 9:41 PM

rrebell
Don't want to start from total scratch.

Have you looked into any of the Funaro & Camerlingo kits? They offer a Pennsy depressed center and well car:

http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/8170.html

http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6940.html

 

I'm not a huge fan of resin kits but I have managed to cobble together a few with reasonable results. Here's how the Well Car turned out:

 IMG_9796_fix by Edmund, on Flickr

Might be worth a look.

They offer a neat, little B&M Well Car also:

http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6590.html

 

Regards, Ed

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, November 2, 2018 8:46 PM

NHTX

  At one time there was a metal kit for a six axle, depressed center flatcar made by Howell Day and sold under the Red Ball label.  Model Railroad Warehouse in Indiana has/had a lot of the Red Ball stuff available so, if it is a six axle car you want I would check with them.

 

 

As I mentioned 9 hours ago on the Red Ball "brass-hybrid" topic, the Red Ball depressed center flat with 6-wheel trucks is a model of the PRR F29 car.  When I built mine in 1964, I was impressed with the results.

 

Ed

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, November 2, 2018 8:42 PM

dknelson

Roco offered a six axle depressed center flat that they offered in DODX lettering as well as railroad lettering and it may indeed have been a DODX prototype.

 

The folks on the Steam Era Freight Car List believe that the Roco depressed center flat is a US Army flat made for use out of the country.  Thus they wouldn't operate here.

The non-depressed center Roco flat (the one with six wheel trucks) is also a US Army (later DODX) flat.  They were used in the US.  

 

Ed

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Posted by Little Timmy on Friday, November 2, 2018 8:38 PM

NHTX
If it is a four axle car, a plastic one was available from Eastern Car Works a few years ago.  It may fit the bill as a four axle car.  Good luck. 

This is what the Eastern Car Work's kit look's like when assembled.

If you can find one, they go togeter very well. But, you will have to do a bit of work to get the kit supplyed truck's to be usable.

I replaced the truck's with a set from Kaydee. I had to do some modification's to the bolster to get the truck's to sit right. And I had to carve off some of the center sill ( one on each side of the bolster ) to allow the truck's to swing.

But, the resulting car is "Totally Worth It" ! 

Rust...... It's a good thing !

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, November 2, 2018 8:09 PM

I may look into that one also, the Devore has holes for grabs too.

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