IRONROOSTERThat Golden Age is dead. Why, because it wasn't the golden age for most. Kits are dying because most people in the hobby want RTR. Locomotive kits are gone. BB and Roundhouse/MDC are at train shows for $5 - $10 because over 10 years after production stopped most people still don't want them.
Apparently it depends on how one defines golden age. I define it in terms of what if available to us and in the present, as Paul pointed out, many BB and MDC kits, and others for that matter, are at train shows for good prices. We also have the newer high detail stuff too.
Now if one defines golden age as when there were no RTR and it was all "do-it-yourself" kit building etc. then thats your golden age, gone many years ago. Of course if you adapt methods of finding those items, they are out there and you can still satisfy that need as Paul mentioned, lots of it out there.
I even break down now and then and buy a kit because it's something I need; just last weekend I picked up a Lonestar 40' flat bed trailer kit as those were common on D&RGW TOFC.
I hope Accurail lasts a long time because it represents a low cost line I think the hobby needs. But it does so with plastic wheels and cheap couplers along with the molded on details.
I have bought a number of Accurail kits in the last year, kits which fit my last gasp of 40' box car time frame. While I like details, with a little weathering the molded on grab irons don't stand out terribly.
But why should Athearn make more kits - there's still a life time supply.
That seems to be the case from what I see, and probably part of the reason Athearn stopped making them - there is a glut of BB kits out there on the secondary market.
Personally, I buy some of everything. But RTR rules because getting a layout built is what I want more than building kits. Once that happens, I will start building kits (and scratch building) - but that's me, building kits is my second hobby. Paul
Paul
Thats exactly true for me; I still buy kits but mostly RTR because building a layout is a pretty consuming task. While building my last layout, I did take some breaks and built some P2K kits and a few others. I still have a few stashed away for when I get the urge.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 Doughless Interesting about foobs. InterMountain released at least two run of their wonderfully accurate, highly detailed, expensive U18Bs ..... in paint schemes that never existed. They did it on purpose and even advertise them as such. Central Vermont and Southern Pacific are the Famous Image Collector Series. Maybe foobishness doesn't matter. It might even be desirable if you're a freelancer. Yes, it's true that some people want foobies. David Lehlbach of Tangent Scale Models, who generally strives toward high fidelity to the prototype has made foobies and reported it was because customer wanted them - specifically 4-bay coal cars. Sometimes it's simply supply and demand. Historically the vast majority of model freight cars have been foobies and models which actually matched a prototype were few. Try to match the Athearn blue box (also RTR) 40' plug door hi-cube appliance box car to real freight cars. I think I was only able to match it to a class of Union Pacific cars, while most if not all of the other paint schemes were foobies. But model train companies had to do this to recover the tooling costs. Things have changed and a much higher percentage of models made now actually match real freight cars than ever. Speaking of freelance, Tangent made a gondola based on the freelance model RR Allagash. They all sold out. As one person put it, the model RR hobby is like a salad bar.
Doughless Interesting about foobs. InterMountain released at least two run of their wonderfully accurate, highly detailed, expensive U18Bs ..... in paint schemes that never existed. They did it on purpose and even advertise them as such. Central Vermont and Southern Pacific are the Famous Image Collector Series. Maybe foobishness doesn't matter. It might even be desirable if you're a freelancer.
Interesting about foobs. InterMountain released at least two run of their wonderfully accurate, highly detailed, expensive U18Bs ..... in paint schemes that never existed. They did it on purpose and even advertise them as such. Central Vermont and Southern Pacific are the Famous Image Collector Series.
Maybe foobishness doesn't matter. It might even be desirable if you're a freelancer.
Yes, it's true that some people want foobies. David Lehlbach of Tangent Scale Models, who generally strives toward high fidelity to the prototype has made foobies and reported it was because customer wanted them - specifically 4-bay coal cars. Sometimes it's simply supply and demand.
Historically the vast majority of model freight cars have been foobies and models which actually matched a prototype were few. Try to match the Athearn blue box (also RTR) 40' plug door hi-cube appliance box car to real freight cars. I think I was only able to match it to a class of Union Pacific cars, while most if not all of the other paint schemes were foobies. But model train companies had to do this to recover the tooling costs. Things have changed and a much higher percentage of models made now actually match real freight cars than ever.
Speaking of freelance, Tangent made a gondola based on the freelance model RR Allagash. They all sold out.
As one person put it, the model RR hobby is like a salad bar.
If true, and I don't disagree, then it was always narrow and short sighted for those others guys on other forums to criticize any particular product as being a foob, as well as accusing the mfg of trying to fool the buyer.
I would wager that the vast majority of the hobby is supported by foobs, and people who don't care that they are. Not that it matters how many of each group of modelers there are.
I can see layouts that operate a variety of railroad locos on the same layout from geeps, to SD90Macs, to 4-6-6-4 challengers and the owner could care less if one steam loco, diesel loco, or boxcar is more like another railroads equipment than the railroad its painted for.
But I do think they make assumptions about car length and turning radii.
- Douglas
is it realy that more expencive or is that inflation?
Doughless it was always narrow and short sighted for those others guys on other forums to criticize any particular product as being a foob, as well as accusing the mfg of trying to fool the buyer.
Perhaps it is narrow and short sited. Maybe a good way for you to deal with it is to realize those people are at a different point in their "journey" in the hobby and be patient or feel sorry for them or whatever helps you not get upset.
The way I see it, some people deal with the "awakening" (the sudden realization that the models they have been buying don't match real train cars), with shock and anger. Others maybe with disappointment, still others don't care at all.
Think of it maybe like an adult version of what some children may go through when they learn that people have been lying to them for years about Santa Clause. Some modelers often feel bitter and lied to by manufacturers about the models they are being sold.
But eventually they learn that it isn't an evil conspiracy to foist some false product on them, but rather an economic reality. Either they do it that way, and a lot of foobies are made, or they don't make models at all cause they can't sustain production financially.
Many of us probably went through, at minimum, a version of surprise and disappointment when we learned of foobies. I bought one of the Rio Grande Color Guide books from Morning Sun Books and began comparing my D&RGW models to the photo's and began selling off the foobies because I wanted models that matched real D&RGW freight cars. The good news is I also found there are many models that do match real D&RGW freight cars and while I had no layout, I enjoyed the research of trying to find models that match real freight cars.
Anyway, I'm long past being bitter and mad about the"narrow and short sightedness of those other guys who criticize products as being foobs yada yada". I don't see the point in rehashing all it all.
At some point we realize how the industry works, and we enjoy the hobby in what way works best for us. There is room for people of all stripes I'd like to think.
riogrande5761 Doughless it was always narrow and short sighted for those others guys on other forums to criticize any particular product as being a foob, as well as accusing the mfg of trying to fool the buyer. Perhaps it is narrow and short sited. Maybe a good way for you to deal with it is to realize those people are at a different point in their "journey" in the hobby and be patient or feel sorry for them or whatever helps you not get upset. The way I see it, some people deal with the "awakening" (the sudden realization that the models they have been buying don't match real train cars), with shock and anger. Others maybe with disappointment, still others don't care at all. Think of it maybe like an adult version of what some children may go through when they learn that people have been lying to them for years about Santa Clause. Some modelers often feel bitter and lied to by manufacturers about the models they are being sold. But eventually they learn that it isn't an evil conspiracy to foist some false product on them, but rather an economic reality. Either they do it that way, and a lot of foobies are made, or they don't make models at all cause they can't sustain production financially. Many of us probably went through, at minimum, a version of surprise and disappointment when we learned of foobies. I bought one of the Rio Grande Color Guide books from Morning Sun Books and began comparing my D&RGW models to the photo's and began selling off the foobies because I wanted models that matched real D&RGW freight cars. The good news is I also found there are many models that do match real D&RGW freight cars and while I had no layout, I enjoyed the research of trying to find models that match real freight cars. Anyway, I'm long past being bitter and mad about the"narrow and short sightedness of those other guys who criticize products as being foobs yada yada". I don't see the point in rehashing all it all. At some point we realize how the industry works, and we enjoy the hobby in what way works best for us. There is room for people of all stripes I'd like to think.
Well, this part of the conversation has gone too long for me since other people aren't generally the topic of my comments.
But complaining (not merely informing) that a producer made a car that is "inaccurate", by their narrow standards, immbeds the expectation that a producer should make a car that is "accurate" by their narrow standards.
It fails to see or care that producers have a bunch of other customers to worry about too. Its also a form of bullying producers, frankly.
Well if someone is bullying, tell the to take a hike. What's the line from the old aesops fables? "If you try to please everyone, you lose your donkey (insert other name for donkey)! The nicer the models we get, the harder it is to please people.
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PRR8259 deleted
rrebell PRR8259 deleted Why did you delete it, you are right on but then the manufactures don't even say they match every proto type.
Why did you delete it, you are right on but then the manufactures don't even say they match every proto type.
An interesting point that gets to the heart of the thread, IMO.
The OP is complaining about a mfg deviating from a well-known standard that hobbyists have known for decades. The assumption that it will negotiate a 22 or 18 inch radius is baked in.
Complaining about a $50 car not matching the prototype is making a new assumption that it should, despite history saying that mfgs have never matched each prototype in a typical mass produced release.
Oh I wouldn't say that exactly, a few have made (as well as could be done) exact copies of one car and added lots of diferent car numbers and pain schemes, at least they matched one car (remember one that they used as a prototype but did not accually have one painted and available in that road name).
rrebell Oh I wouldn't say that exactly, a few have made (as well as could be done) exact copies of one car and added lots of diferent car numbers and pain schemes, at least they matched one car (remember one that they used as a prototype but did not accually have one painted and available in that road name).
Right, that's what I meant. IMO, a mfg designs a car with one prototype in mind and from that comes cars painted with different roads, but oftentimes its not possible to add or delete other details to match each prototype. So all of the other variants are called foobies by some, at least to a degree.
I deleted it because I thought it showed too much information about one particular model train manufacturer, and I've been burned in the past and do not want to upset my long time (45 years) friends and also my former employer. Things I said have been taken the wrong way in the past, resulting in nasty phone calls from some people on internet train forums, who may not completely grasp the whole story, to the manufacturer--calls the manufacturer should not ever have to deal with.
The one point to make is this: In real world prototype railroading, very very few models at any scale capture the prototype 100% in all its glory, because real world freight car and loco manufacturers have all kinds of running product changes within even the same model, and sometimes even within orders for a single railroad or freight car owner/lessor.
It is practically impossible to model every single variation of just an Alco C-628, and nobody in brass ever did it either, not for all roads and variations. So then which one road's engine do you decide to make "correct"?
Many are now asking for a new from ground up eastern road, Bethlehem Steel Car 100-ton open hopper. But many do not know the variations might not be doable. Reading for instance used a different end slope sheet angle on their cars that makes the Reading 100-ton open hopper different from all others...and I bet there are even more variations I don't know about. Also BSC sold freight car kits that prototype owners could then build out to suit...ie more variations.
100% may only be achievable for one specific order of a prototype.
Best Regards to all. Have a great weekend!
John
There was or is a person on this forum that accually copied every single prototype of an engine there were only about 12, but still quite a task. Seen in a freight car once but forget which forum.