MisterBeasley,
Sorry to read of your impending divorce. Regardless of who initited it, it's a very stressful time, and almost always leaves both parties wounded. In most cases I've seen (and once been a party to), only the attorneys get satisfaction in a divorce.
To your question about valuation:
If you have time, go to a swap meet and check out the prices. Structures that in kit form cost 20-30 dollars or more sell for $4-5, or maybe a bit more if they're very well built. In other words, maybe 10-15% of original value.
Rolling stock built-up kits with Kadee couplers, like Athearn, Accurail and such may get $4-5, again depending on the craftsmanship. That's maybe 25% of total value of the kit plus couplers.
Train set quality rolling stock with horn-hook couplers, like Tyco, I have seen at $2-3 generally, maybe 25-40% of new retail cost.
You may see turnouts at $5 or so for used Shinohara or Peco quality units, but they have to be in very good shape (no stuck-on ballast and unweathered). Still new in package may sell for 50-60% of retail.
Brass may sell much closer to consignment market value or much less - that's kind of a crap shoot.
This is all based on my observations at many different train shows.
One other observation: Many of the sellers at swap meets bought the entire collection from the modeler and is reselling it at those prices, so the owner got 40-60% LESS than the swap meet prices. If you sell it yourself at a meet, then you lose that middle man and will get about what they would, but you often have to tote the stuff to several shows to sell it all. Finally someone will offer you half of what you're asking for everything you have left, and you'll accept it because you're sick of going to shows and earning $40-50 for an entire day's effort.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Tell the attorneys its not worth anything. And that it only cost about $500 to build.
- Douglas
Hi,
To keep this thread "on topic", I will draw on my extensive buy/sell Ebay experience and offer that the layout is likely worth a ballpark of $1,500. Assume a NET sale value of $50 - $70 per loco, $3-8 per car, and maybe $100 for trackage and another $100 for electronics, and the rest is insignificant.
Of course selling on Ebay is WORK, but that is likely the only way you will get "top dollar". Selling to a resaler will of course get you less.
Yikes, and I thought I was the only one that had "divorce experience". My story is like Sheldon's in many ways - married 21 years, 4 kids, wife who thought (wrongly) the "grass was greener", etc. Only thing is, I came home to a fairly empty 5 bedroom house, with an empty safe, empty savings and checking account, two difficult teens (the others had fledged), and a loving Beagle. Heck, the movers even drank all the beer!
But my train stuff was untouched. Guess she realized that would be going too far and would be "the straw that broke...............".
Anyway, after 14 years of dating, I found my current wife of 17 years, one that loves me, appreciates my trains (she spent her teen years working in her parents hobby shop).
And the ex... well she found out that "green grass" was artificial, and only lasted a few years, and in her words "I never knew how hard it was to have to get up every day and go to work".
Life is good.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
BigDaddy I hope this thread doesn't get locked for being OT because Mr. B asked a valid question.
I hope this thread doesn't get locked for being OT because Mr. B asked a valid question.
Agreed, I will just let it alone now.
Sheldon
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy That's a sad story Sheldon, on multiple levels but aren't they all sad stories. You think you've met the love of your life and sometime later, sometimes decades later, you find out you've made the worst mistake of your life. The kids don't always weather it well either, although mine got back on track. You got off cheaper than I did. I got off cheaper than a friend who is stuck with alimony for life. The fact that he is retired makes no difference. His ex, a skilled open heart surgery nurse, works as a waitress to keep the alimony coming.
That's a sad story Sheldon, on multiple levels but aren't they all sad stories. You think you've met the love of your life and sometime later, sometimes decades later, you find out you've made the worst mistake of your life. The kids don't always weather it well either, although mine got back on track.
You got off cheaper than I did. I got off cheaper than a friend who is stuck with alimony for life. The fact that he is retired makes no difference. His ex, a skilled open heart surgery nurse, works as a waitress to keep the alimony coming.
Yes, it was sad on a number of levels. What I did not explain, we were very young, and very expecting when we got married. She was 17, I was 19.
She came from a less than happy story herself. Her father left when she was 12, her mother later remarried an OK guy, but she was forced to grow up too soon on a lot of levels.
And I think even she would admit we were very happy for the first 14 or even 15 years, inspite of the fact that life was not always easy for us starting out so young.
But as we both finished growing up, we wanted different things. I was/am a very settled kind of person - she was/is a party girl......
She wanted that free and easy life she never got to experiance, something I never needed or wanted at any age.
So my response to her today would be, "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it".
She wanted out, I let her out.
Obviously every relationship/divorce is different, and laws are different in every State, but sometimes I think I need to give seminars on the subject.
Here is how you get divorced:
In 1993 my first wife of 17 years, mother of my three children, came to me and said "I'm so sorry, I have ruined your life". Her next words, "I'm not happy, I'm not in love, not sure if I ever was. I don't want to be married, I don't want to be a mother, I want out". Then she said, "you are a really nice guy, but nice guys finish last".
Now I knew things had not been perfect the last few years, but I did not see that coming.
Two weeks later she moved out, leaving me with three children to care for, ages 16, 13 and 10. I was not about to abandon my children and give her that leverage. She had no financial means to take the children with her even if she wanted to. Her job was only part time, she was basically a stay at home mom.
She moved in with a female co worker, but she had been seeing her new "boy friend" for a few months before she left. I promptly moved all the money (what little there was) to an account in my name only.......
By the end of 1994 I had met my current wife of now 20 years, and in the summer of 1995 we were buying a house together.....the 1901 Queen Anne many of you are familiar with from my posts. After completing the restoration of the house, we married in 1998.
Now you need to know that my ex and I did not own a home, and nothing we owned was particularly valueable, but we also did not have any debt. In fact we were renting a house from her mother, the very house she grew up in. A house that I had renovated and remodeled over the 14 or so years we lived there.
When I moved myself and my children out of that house, I took what I wanted, including of course my trains. What I did not want, I left for her. She moved back in right behind me.
I did not have a layout at that particular time, but was active in the Severna Park Model Railroad Club as time allowed.
Back to the divorce.
Early in 1996 my middle daughter, now 16, decided to go live with her mother. My oldest daughter now 19, moved to Florida with her boyfriend. And by the end of 1996 I found a good divorce attorney, who is today one of my historic restoration clients, and he served her with divorce papers which she signed.
She had the 16 year old middle child, I had the now 13 year old youngest, a boy, the oldest was an adult - no child support in either direction.......
No spousal support, she walked out. No settlement, no real assets........
Done, gone, good riddens. From the day she walked out, I never gave her a dime, she only got what I left in that house.
After that, I only spoke with her a few times about the kids. At age 16 my son decided to go live with her, mainly because I think he missed the old neighborhood. I took care of his health care and other extra needs directly with him.
She did her best back then to turn the children against me, but now at least two of the three know better........
Finally saw her for the first time in 20 years last year. We were both invited to my mother's 85 birthday party, held by my two younger sisters. She did not have anything to say, so only a few words were exchanged.
So the sum total cost of my divorce was $800, and I got a new wife, a new house, a new car, and a new life out of the deal. And I was able to fullfill my life long career goals and buy lots more trains. And I still have all the old ones, going back to the layout my father built me at age 10.
The ex? She married the boy friend, who was cheating on his wife when he was running with my ex. He kicked her out about 5 years ago, and she is back living alone in that same little row house.........who finished last?.......
The value of used model trains or the layout? Not much in my book, maybe 30 cents on the dollar for the best of it.
Little TimmyIt may take a year or so , but you will get all your stuff back
I wouldn't count on it. I never again saw my Baltimore Colts autographs from the early 1960's or my father's WW 2 photographs.
There's a different way to deal with this.....
If she is "Convinced" that their worth Thousands and thousands Let her keep them.
Make her buy YOU out ! Then wait.
After she realizes , she can't sell them for anything close to what she thought, offer to buy them back...... for ten cent's on the dollar.
It may take a year or so , but you will get all your stuff back. She wont Destroy /Throw away your train's as long as she "think's " there's a way to get something / Anything for them..... even if it mean's selling them back to you .... for a $1.
Trust me .... she will get frustrated with the whole thing very quickly. There is just too much "legwork" involved, and I doubt she has the Time ,or patients , to see it through.
EDIT: By the way , does she have a car ? Half of that is your's.....
She "May" want to make a deal...
Rust...... It's a good thing !
A few years ago my sister was asked to value a small used retail store's inventory for a law firm on behalf of their client. She contacted four industry people knowledgeable about that particular type of inventory and obtained a dollar value which was accepted by the judge as a reasonable valuation. If I were getting a similar process done I would contact at least three local buyers-some of whom you might see at swap meets- to do something similar. Estate buyers might be an alternative but hobby buyers would be more on point. If the valuations all come in with similar final numbers that might be your best estimate.
Cedarwoodron
SeeYou190I can absolutely attest that a finished layout, short of national reckognition, has zero value.
Actually the national recognition layouts do not sell because by their very nature they tend to be very large, complex creations, very much a part of their site. The V&O (both of them) is just the most famous example, but more recently the wonderful Ohio Southern ended up in dumpsters.
A good case can be made that a layout has negative value because you often have to pay for the dumpster and the demolition team!
I would say the smaller and simpler the layout the more likely it could be sold - something that could fit in the back set of a sedan. And it would still be for peanuts.
Dave Nelson
I have removed layouts for widows mostly for the purpose of selling a house.
.
I can absolutely attest that a finished layout, short of national reckognition, has zero value. I will accept the salvageable track, scenery, and equipment as payment for removing the layout. If it has been cherry-picked already, I am not interested. I have had people tell me that they do not want my help because they will "sell" the layout, then they call me in a couple of weeks to ask for a free removal.
Right now I have a ton of money sitting in boxes of supplies I have bought for my final lifetime layout.
My wife and I are 100% certain and aware that as soon as these are installed on the {future} layout, their resale value drops to zero.
The equipment I have "custom painted" all has no value now. The brass locomotives I "modified" are now worthless. My poorly asssembled buildings that only look good from one side and one point of view are worthless (I do not model that which cannot be seen).
Maybe if you have mint condition rolling stock and equipment, those might have tangible value. Untouched mint kits have some value. Used junk is just junk. It only has value if it is your junk.
I have no idea how to make your wife's attourney understand this.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Ideally you have a local appraiser with some expertise in hobbycraft, including trains, with whom you have no relationship to speak of, and whose appraisal of what is being liquidated will be acceptable to both parties. Otherwise, it's a crap shoot, or a lot of time on eBay and other places looking for selling prices of things of the same approximate vintage and quality.
The sad part is, when you have your next layout up and running, you'll have paid about 180% for all of it, everything replaced. I don't suppose the wife's jewelry, hobbies, collectibles, etc, are in the mix as well? She'll get doubly hosed on her jewelry.
OK, you are getting divorced, and you need valuation estimates for purposes of dividing assets. For this purpose, you are likely going to need an appraisal. A typical division of assets in a divorce may result in a payment of cash in lieu of a split of hobby assets. For this reason, both the original purchase price and the current market value of each hobby asset should be noted.
In my experience, electronic equipment, locomotives and rolling stock are all saleable, but layout framework, landscaping, and quite often structures are not. Again, in my experience, used but saleable electronic equipment, locomotives and rolling stock can be sold for 30% to 70% of the original purchase price depending upon condition, but saleable condition almost always means operational with no significant damage.
There may also be some value associated with turnouts, vehicles, figures, again depending upon condition. As to structures, resale value is iffy at best, but feasible.
Rich
Alton Junction
Very little is worth more that you paid for it (special bargains, or specific brass pieces being the primary exception). So while the ex may see dollar signs, in reality she's going to be greatly disappointed.
My ex kept everything. But she had no place to put it, so it was all stored at her parent's place. Her Dad was a former railroad employee and a fellow modeler. I'm still on good terms with them - so I've since gotten back most anything I wanted. By the time that happened, I had already re-bought a lot of the locos and rolling stock I had, so I ended up letting him keep the ones I already had. I did swap PCM T1's - I had already rebought the one I had, he had the other number so I swapped my old one for his old one, now he still has one, and I have 2.
So - don't be afraid to just walk away and let her deal with it. In some cases, what I repurchased I got for far less than I paid for what got left behind.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
RR_MelAre you divorcing the hobby too? I got a divorce 50 years ago and I still have and still operate my pre-divorce locomotives.
I was separated in 2000 and divorce finally finalized in 2008 and like RR_Mel, I kept all of my trains. My ex raked me over the coals good and proper but didn't expect anything from the trains other than theatening to dump them out on the street before I moved out.
I did have a layout in the plywood pacific stage that was about 80% complete and it was not movable so I tore out the part that was not part of storage shelves and boxed up track etc. that I could keep. All that track I carefully stacked and saved was stored in boxes until I built my last layout using it between 2014 and2018. Yep, I stored all my trains and track and equipment for about 14 years biding my time.
All of the track etc. recovered from my divorce layout was used to build this layout (although I had to buy a few additional turnouts and pieces of flex track to finish it) That obviously helped me save a lot of money - Shinohara specialty turnouts etc.!
Here I am salvaging all the track etc. from the last layout (2014-2018) when it was torn down for a move, for re-use. Hey, it saves money.
Now before I was separated I moved house from Indiana to New York in 1994, I had built a 16x19 foot garage layout in the plywood Pacific stage was built in a sectional format. When it came time to move from IN to NY, I made a scale drawing of the layout and track plan and mailed it to various hobby shops in Indiana.
I did get a response and a guy who lived up north in Kokomo IN came down in with a U-haul truck, paid me about $450 for it, put it in the truck and drove home. Pretty good deal as he had a nice layout with much of the work done, fully functional in a tear drop return loop to passing siding to yard to tear drop return loop format and it was ready for scenicing. He could just take it up, bolt it together, place the flex track back where it was removed from between the sections and basically start running trains!
So unless you absolutely have to sell your trains, keep them for the future and store them in boxes. Sell the layout if you can by advertising it with photo's and dimensions, assuming it can be broken down and moved. If not, demolish it and save what you can.
If you have to sell your trains, I've found that HOSwap.io groups gives me the best return but it will take months to sell most (best case scenario). There is Ebay or other means as well.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Mr B,
The only value is in the locos and rolling stock And possibly DCC equipment (depending on condition and date of manufacture). The track, scenery, etc are esentially worthless to a buyer. Contact estate/lot buyers who advertise in MR and on the web and get an estimate. I would guess that locos are gonna go at well below 40% of original purchase price - same for rolling stock.
Make sure you have a rebuttal to the possible suggestion from the ex that you could make a fortune on the stuff on EBay... You won't.
I have sold lots of used stuff on EBay as well as watching several very large collections/layouts wind their way through the estate liquidation maze. Always more work than one would think for much less cash than you would hope.
Good luck,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Tinplate Toddlerdetermining the market value of a layout is a rather futile endeavour, as there is hardly a market for used layouts. Don´t expect to get more than 10 cents to each dollar, your effort not counting at all.
All that may be true, but this is a valuation for a divorce. The future ex is expecting full retail value plus appreciation and she wants her half in cash, thank you very much.
If we are talking a 4 figures or more for a MR empire, you might be well served to make a list, with pictures and take it to a sympathetic train store and pay for an estimate. Make sure the dealer knows it's not an insurance estimate for replacement cost but a liquidation value.
Otherwise you will have a judge who will be comparing your valuation versus hers and who is likely to know nothing about model railroading, only that both sides exagerate, and pick something in the middle, if they like you.
Unless you have brass locomotoves or something really rare and collectible, used model railroad equipment isn't really worth very much. Well maybe the DCC equipment may hold some value too, but that's about it.
A local hobby shop sells locos and rolling stock on consignment. You net 45% of selling price. If you can determine selling price in your area then you have an idea of net. The also sell some structures but the selling price tends to be very low.
If you assume you could sell everything that you spent on it( unlikely) and you got 50% of what you paid on consignment then the net would be $1350.
They do not sell any completed layouts.
I think a layout is only worth what you can get for the parts. A re-sale value for a completed layout assumes that it can somehow be moved, so in most cases that means nothing for the labour and a lot of the pieces such as scenery.
CN Charlie
Building a layout is a labor of love, which hardlly finds the necessary recognition when you have to sell it. Whlie the market value of locos and cars can easily be determined by checking the usual online auction sites, determining the market value of a layout is a rather futile endeavour, as there is hardly a market for used layouts. Don´t expect to get more than 10 cents to each dollar, your effort not counting at all. I know this is disappointing.
Expect your weathered trains to sell for less than in unweathered condition.
Guess how I found all of that out!
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
I have spent a dozen years building a layout, about 120 square feet, mostly sceniced. It's DCC, about 20 engines and 120 or so pieces of rolling stock.
I'm getting a divorce and I need to know how much it would sell for.
I've spent about $6000 on it, plus a lot of my own labor. Trains and structures are mostly weathered.
Many of you have seen my photos.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.