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Alco Models Drivetrain Problems

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  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Friday, September 28, 2018 11:23 PM

Ed, that's just what we need to encourage new people to participate in the forums! Well done.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    May 2004
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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, September 28, 2018 10:47 PM

Amanda has not responded since her post 11 days ago.  Perhaps she has lost interest in model railroading.  It happens.  Usually not so quickly.

Best wishes in your new interests, Amanda!

 

Ed

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Friday, September 28, 2018 9:49 PM

Hi Amanda!

Welcome to the forums!!    Welcome

I'm interested in your project because I have a couple of Alco models of Alco switchers, and S-1 and an S-4. Mine appear to be original. They are unpainted. I got them for a fair price just to get some exposure to manufactured brass. The only other factory built brass I have is a small steamer that a friend gave me. I also have a couple of brass critters (one is shown in my avatar) that I built from scratch.

Like you say, the detail on the Alcos is a bit lacking. The paint will have to be pretty thin to avoid obscuring the stamped door lines etc.

The only thing I have done with them is test to see that they actually work, which they do, but I only ran them for a few inches because the grease has obviously hardened up.

They are not high up on my list of priorities but at least I can boast about owning some brass engines!!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughClown

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    November 2012
  • From: Kokomo, Indiana
  • 1,463 posts
Posted by emdmike on Friday, September 28, 2018 8:09 PM

That is an odd drive for an Alco Models, of which I have reworked many for local modelers and for myself before going to O scale 2 rail trains.   Chain drive is common in O scale, used in many brass and non brass locomotives very successfuly.  Never seen it done in HO scale or is this a O scale engine?   Mounting engines with RTV caulk is common when the modeler is unable to fabricate a bracket from sheet brass.  Either works just fine.  Yours needs to be removed and remounted straight, it probably shifted as the RTV cured.  If the plastic parts that are slipping on the shafts are not split/cracked, some "knurling" can be added to the metal shafts with a pair of side cuts used to put some burrs on the shaft to help "lock" the plastic drive cups to the shafts.   NWSL(Northwest Shortline) is an excellent source of drive line parts.    I just redid an Alco Models Lima switcher for a member of a facebook group I belong to.   Mike the Aspie

Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome

  • Member since
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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, September 18, 2018 12:16 PM

I did not know that Alco Models used to use a chain drive.  

It looks like the drive has been "improved".  I suspect originally it used rubber tubing to connect motor to gear tower.

The universal shafts look like old Athearn.  If so, the holes are American size, maybe 3/32".  The motor probably has a 2mm shaft.  3/32" is 2.38mm.  Not exactly a press fit.  Which might explain the glup "seeping" out.  And the slippage.

You should surely replace the universal connections with something from NWSL.  Your existing shafts are likely metric (checking with a micrometer is still good practice).  As stated by others, NWSL has a quite complete selection of universal connectors.

The motor does look to be "glued" into it's cradle mount.  The misalignment doesn't look to me to be that bad, but I'm not there looking at it.  I see that only two screws out of four are holding the mount.  I'd be tempted to add two more screws, if possible.

Looks like fun!

 

Ed

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • 472 posts
Posted by Graham Line on Tuesday, September 18, 2018 11:56 AM

That motor definitely needs to be straightened.

  • Member since
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  • From: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, September 17, 2018 6:11 PM

Amanda  Stop by Jeffery's Trackside Diner, where we discuss all sorts of off topic things.  I see other women online, in the box to the right of this thread, but I don't recall any of them posting in a thread I was interested in.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Monday, September 17, 2018 5:59 PM

 At first i wondered if maybe you got it fromt he same guy I got my RS3 from - but mine had a different round can motor fitted, with the long hood fitted with some cobbled together Athearn parts, and the short hood just a total mess that someone has applied CA to a part that should have been able to slide on the drive shaft, which caused the truck to barely swivel. I temporarily replaced that mess with some model airplane fuel line. Eventually I'll redo the whole thing and do it right.

                                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, September 17, 2018 4:29 PM

Mel's suggestion of NWSL drive line parts is spot-on.

I have an Overland electric that I got a deal on since it was "not running".

When I opened it up I saw right away that the "horned balls" were split.

 IMG_5946_fix by Edmund, on Flickr

Northwest Shortline had the correct parts available. I bought new shafting since the original shaft was not a standard size.

 IMG_5937_fix by Edmund, on Flickr

I agree about the "glued-in" motor however, I have installed several using Scotch foam double-stick mounting pads, sometimes supplanted with RTV silicone. This stuff is strong and flexible and also reduces vibrations transfered to the frame.

It can be cut or pried off if you need to remove the motor for some reason later.

This link will take you to the NWSL catalog section with motors and drive-line parts.

 

https://tinyurl.com/ycp5mhrv

Use dial calipers to measure your shaft sizes. You can contact them and ask for help. There are a lot of Alco Models locomotives out there that have needed drive upgrades.

Scroll to page 16 here and there is a section on Alco Model repowering kits:

https://tinyurl.com/ydxsg6vd

I've had a few models with can motors that seemed to run fine but had absolutely no torque. Same with some open frame motors that were high current draw or only three pole and not very smooth.

This fellow has replacement motors at a reasonable cost:

https://www.ebay.com/str/Sweetwater-Locomotive-Repair?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

 

Good Luck, Ed

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, September 17, 2018 4:28 PM

Amanda Welcome to the forum.

Here is your loco

I have not remotored anything.  Brasstrains.com has a bunch of videos, in which they frequently have a repair or painting video.  I think their painting guy soda blasts the locos.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, September 17, 2018 4:16 PM

When I remoter a locomotive I use Amazing Goop to anchor the new motor.  Goop is very strong yet it can be removed by pulling with long nose pliers and a bit of elbow grease.  What I really like about Goop is it remains slightly flexible and absorbs vibration and sound.  The only problem is the motor must remain in the exact position until the Goop sets up, about 30 minutes then cure for 24 hours.
 
I have remotored about 50 locomotives using Goop and I wouldn’t attempt any other type of motor mount in any of my locomotives.  Works better than GREAT.
 
As for drive lines NWSL is the only way to go.  Their universals are the best available.
 
 
Both Canon motors are anchored with Amazing Goop and both drives are NWSL universals.
 
 
The locomotive is a Rivarossi Cab Forward.
 
 
I added 10 ounces of #8 birdshot in the shell for added traction, the drawbar is 6.8 ounces.
 
 
EDIT:
 
My experience with Sagami motors has been very good, I would go with it. With new Universals and a Gooped in motor should have it up and running like new.
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
    July 2018
  • 43 posts
Alco Models Drivetrain Problems
Posted by Monon Railroader on Monday, September 17, 2018 12:07 PM

Hi All...

I recently bought an Alco Models brass Alco RS-2. I didn't pay a lot, didn't expect perfection and, well... I got it. :-)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/81065424@N00/30872250618/in/dateposted-public/

Okay, it's tarnished and dirty and I can live with that. It's undecorated so that will making a CI&L out of it a bit easier.

The big things now:

Its always run very slow, barely able to pull 5 cars. This morning I took off the shell and found: The Sagami motor appears to be secured with something like florist's putty and is turned at a slight angle to the frame. Then the "happy" part... both u-joint/driveshafts are slipping. The rear at the motor and the front at the middle of the joint.

Some speculation... I suspect the motor may be an odd replacement that someone kludged in. Next, I suspect there are no genuine replacement parts in the known universe! :-(

So... I'm not hesitant about tearing the beastie down to fix it, she needs a GOOD cleaning. The motor seems to be running okay, but the whole putty thing has me annoyed. I tend to prefer hardware attachment to glue.

I'm not opposed to keeping this motor, but would like to replace it. Barring replacement, are there generic driveshafts that might work?

Any places that sell parts I could make work?

Thanks for any wisdom!

Amanda

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