I'd say that Ebay hurts the brick and Mortar stores that don't use it.
Alot of stores seem to have a presence on Ebay and those that don't probably should. Some small shops only stock the latest and newest and they proably have the most to loose vs ebay or other online discounters. Still, I've been in so many brick and mortar stores where I've seen used and new-old-stock items that have been on the shelf for heaven knows how long and I know they'd sell for the sticker price or alot more if the shop would just put it on Ebay.
I'm sure there's a balance for these shops in wanting to have a used selection for those customers that want it, and maybe they don't have the manpower to post all this stuff, but almost as often as I see this kind of stock sitting around, I also tend to see employees sitting at a desk doing nothing.
If brick and mortar stores want to survive they likely need some kind of online presence and Ebay -for all it's faults- is one way to that.
For my self I have little use for Ebay.I like old cheap stuff and I do alot of trading and buying from online forums, train shows, craigslist and some local shops that have used or affordable NOS stuff. Stuff on ebay often costs more to ship than the item would cost to buy at a show and I don't want to buy huge lots so except for the occasional super-bargain, or cheap bit from China I don't use Ebay much for model railroading.
Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad for Chicago Trainspotting and Budget Model Railroading.
Okay, I will play this little game for awhile. My interpretation of the original question has three and only three possible answers: No impact, negative impact or positive impact. No impact requres that the hobby "society" do nothing new or different. A positive impact - that is one in which the hobby is enriched or strengthened - requires that the society maintain its' joint dependence on auctions, shows and the LHS. The trick is in the final response - negative impact - one in which the hobby is damaged - requires some action to rectify. If the final answer is negative impact does that mean that those who live in rural areas, some actually hundreds of miles from the "local" hobby shop should suspend purchasing until the on line venues go away? Can't see how that helps anything, especially, the hobbyist. Or should those who are close to a LHS pay more for an item , decreasing their own purchasing power until the online stuff goes away? Once again, I fail to see how that helps anything. I would like a show of hands from those who will take the steps outlined above. The hobby has evolved to what it is and it will always do that. (For me the closest option to the correct answer is no impact). Back to my regularly scheduled nap.
Old Fat Robert
I buy a lot on line mostly from Amazon, because it is easier than getting in the car and driving to the store. I do not believe it is cheaper but it is a LOT easier, Wife buys a lot on line such as clothes for grandkids and herself, she has also brought eyeglasses which are top quality and a lot cheaper than the brick and morter stores. I do not care if I am saving money but is is a lot easier and that is why we do it and will keep doing it.
After reading so many comments on the virtues of on-line shopping, now my most feared nightmare would be to again own a model train store....beating out by a mile other reoccuring nightmares like going back into the Army, being a dentist and going to the dentist. (Not to denigrate dentists...I started out studing dentistry as my dad was a dentist.............nah!!)
HZ
CGW121 I buy a lot on line mostly from Amazon, because it is easier than getting in the car and driving to the store. I do not believe it is cheaper but it is a LOT easier
I buy a lot on line mostly from Amazon, because it is easier than getting in the car and driving to the store. I do not believe it is cheaper but it is a LOT easier
I have looked at trains on Amazon, and so far what I have found is model trains area considerably more expensive. Easier than getting in a car, but wait ... is it easier than ordering from a variety of online train vendors? The model prices are generally much cheaper so the only other difference is shipping.
If you have Amazon Prime and order a ton of stuff, maybe you spread the Prime membership out over enough orders then it may drop the total cost of model trains on Amazon so similar to hobby shops. I haven't done the financial analysis.
If you don't have Prime, then online train vendors appear to win easily and are just as "a LOT easeir" than getting in a car as Amazon. With Prime, it depends on scale, but the cost of models on Amazon that I have seen are considerably more expensive and it's not clear if the savings on shipping offsets the much higher model prices.
Howard ZaneAfter reading so many comments on the virtues of on-line shopping, now my most feared nightmare would be to again own a model train store...
In todays world Howard, you are probably right; opening a model train store is a different beast than in the olden days. It just goes to show you how much things have changed in 25 or so years hasn't it? That said, a model train store with a good online presence to extend it's reach far and wide is a horse of a different color.
Most online vendors are offering discount prices but Caboose in Colorado (a new hobby shop in Colorado which is riding on the coat-tails of the now closed Caboose Hobbies) seems to be largely charging full prices - so it will be interesting to see if that is going to work long term. There is no incentive for me to buy from them when I have other, lower cost option, and with the rising costs of models, I try to take advantage of cost savings where ever possible.
A shop without a web store is dicey proposition and probalby odds are against success.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 CGW121 I buy a lot on line mostly from Amazon, because it is easier than getting in the car and driving to the store. I do not believe it is cheaper but it is a LOT easier I have looked at trains on Amazon, and so far what I have found is model trains area considerably more expensive. Easier than getting in a car, but wait ... is it easier than ordering from a variety of online train vendors? The model prices are generally much cheaper so the only other difference is shipping. If you have Amazon Prime and order a ton of stuff, maybe you spread the Prime membership out over enough orders then it may drop the total cost of model trains on Amazon so similar to hobby shops. I haven't done the financial analysis. If you don't have Prime, then online train vendors appear to win easily and are just as "a LOT easeir" than getting in a car as Amazon. With Prime, it depends on scale, but the cost of models on Amazon that I have seen are considerably more expensive and it's not clear if the savings on shipping offsets the much higher model prices.
I buy track from Amazon, what price difference there is, is not much and not important to me. The closest b&m shop is hobby lobby and close to 15 miles from me, while a model rr shop is 25 miles away so it turns into a hassle to go there.
CGW121 I buy a lot on line mostly from Amazon, because it is easier than getting in the car and driving to the store. I do not believe it is cheaper but it is a LOT easier, Wife buys a lot on line such as clothes for grandkids and herself, she has also brought eyeglasses which are top quality and a lot cheaper than the brick and morter stores. I do not care if I am saving money but is is a lot easier and that is why we do it and will keep doing it.
Nothing new. People have been hiring other people to do stuff for them, including driving, for centuries. It used to be reserved for just the elites, but I guess we have become such a rich and technologically advanced country virtually everyone can spend extra money on convenience.
In the context of trains, I don't know that buying an RTR boxcar and paying shipping charges for that one item, and sales tax, really saves much money compared to driving to the LHS and picking up the materials to build it ourselves.
If the argument is made that its more convenient, I get that.
And if the internet store provides a greater selection than the LHS, I MIGHT get that. (However, it seems more and more times I visit online big box train stores, I see desclaimers such as "out of stock" or "taking backorders".)
I'm a bit skeptical when folks say its less expensive to buy online than at the LHS. For rural areas, sure, but trends in almost anything are set by what happens in the population centers, and what happens in rural areas tends to not move the needle much.
I don't know if this shift is bad for the hobby. As long as we can afford the change, and avoid production and distribution getting concentrated in the hands of a few companies, its probaby all good.
- Douglas
If a webstore has an out of stock by an item I have not wasted anything but some time, however if the local hobby shop does not have an item I need I have wasted gas etc etc so I order online. Web site a is out another site will have it. Walmart put the Mom and Pop stores out of business,or so they say, now Walmart is feelng the online stores pressure. Times change and one needs to adapt.
DoughlessIn the context of trains, I don't know that buying an RTR boxcar and paying shipping charges for that one item, and sales tax, really saves much money compared to driving to the LHS and picking up the materials to build it ourselves.
Doughless,First let me say I fully agree by my own experiences.
I wanted a Atlas car that retailed for $34.95 which could be had for $23.95 on line but,the time I added shipping I was saving less then two bucks so,I call my not so local hobby shop and he had one in stock.
He agreed to hold it until my doctors appointment the following week.
I bought the car and bought a second car (Athearn) for a addition $32.95.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
CGW121 If a webstore has an out of stock by an item I have not wasted anything but some time, however if the local hobby shop does not have an item I need I have wasted gas etc etc so I order online. Web site a is out another site will have it. Walmart put the Mom and Pop stores out of business,or so they say, now Walmart is feelng the online stores pressure. Times change and one needs to adapt.
You could phone the LHS to see if an item is in stock instead of driving there, so you would have wasted about the same amount of time as browsing the 'net.
But I'm not disagreeing the transition is convenience driven.
I'm just trying to keep things apples to apples.
I can't ever think of a time where I left the house for the sole purpose of going to the LHS, which seems to be the standard by which we are comparing things. I tend to group that trip in with something else, which saves time and money.
When I can buy trains, toilet paper, and lawn food from one online vendor, and incurr one shipping charge, then the UPS truck makes only one trip to my house. If I buy all three things from different vendors or at different times, then paying for three separate UPS trips to my house is the same thing as me making three separate trips to the stores. I can't see how the money savings happens when you simply change from B&M purchases to online purchases. It happens when you don't make a special trip to the LHS, just like people try not to buy things online in piecemeal fashion.
DoughlessIn the context of trains, I don't know that buying an RTR boxcar and paying shipping charges for that one item, and sales tax, really saves much money compared to driving to the LHS and picking up the materials to build it ourselves. If the argument is made that its more convenient, I get that.
It's as simple as a matter of convenience. And its assuming you actually have an LHS. The closest hobby shop I am aware of to me is exactly local at 40 miles and they'd have to order stuff (why bother when I get get it online). Their used to be one about 12 miles away, but it closed in the last 6 months and strangely was mostly Marklin trains. I live near a large metro area too.
Add to that buying the materials to builda box car mean you have the time; lack of time for building projects is why RTR is a big help. Right now with multiple house projects, I think my wife would quickly have issues with me is I spent time building kits. Even when that stuff gets caught up on I plan to build a layout which the limited time I will have - kits take back seat to RTR.
Cost is a factor of course but MBK usually ships to me for about $7 and change and I usually spit that between a couple models or more. From what I have seen of most LHS price, I still come out cheaper.
And if the internet store provides a greater selection than the LHS, I MIGHT get that.
It definitely does. Most LHS's I have visited don't have much selection it's no small thing.
(However, it seems more and more times I visit online big box train stores, I see desclaimers such as "out of stock" or "taking backorders".) I'm a bit skeptical when folks say its less expensive to buy online than at the LHS.
I'm a bit skeptical that you can do better at an LHS factoring everything in, assuming you have a big selection, good prices etc. an unusual thing for most of us these days. I do have a selection of online vendors and usually I can find what I need from one of them. The LHS's, not so much. And the hard to find items, patience and Ebay works 99% of the time for me. This has worked for me now for a good 10+ years.
riogrande5761 Doughless In the context of trains, I don't know that buying an RTR boxcar and paying shipping charges for that one item, and sales tax, really saves much money compared to driving to the LHS and picking up the materials to build it ourselves. If the argument is made that its more convenient, I get that. That's assuming you actually have an LHS. The closest hobby shop I am aware of to me is exactly local at 40 miles and they'd have to order stuff (why bother when I get get it online). Their used to be one about 12 miles away, but it closed in the last 6 months and strangely was mostly Marklin trains. I live near a large metro area too. Add to that buying the materials to builda box car mean you have the time; lack of time for building projects is why RTR is a big help. Right now with multiple house projects, I think my wife would quickly have issues with me is I spent time building kits. Even when that stuff gets caught up on I plan to build a layout which the limited time I will have - kits take back seat to RTR. Cost is a factor of course but MBK usually ships to me for about $7 and change and I usually spit that between a couple models or more. From what I have seen of most LHS price, I still come out cheaper. And if the internet store provides a greater selection than the LHS, I MIGHT get that. It definitely does. Most LHS's I have visited don't have much selection it's no small thing. (However, it seems more and more times I visit online big box train stores, I see desclaimers such as "out of stock" or "taking backorders".) I'm a bit skeptical when folks say its less expensive to buy online than at the LHS. I'm a bit skeptical that you can do better at an LHS. I do have a selection of online vendors and usually I can find what I need from one of them. The LHS's, not so much. And the hard to find items, patience and Ebay works 99% of the time for me. This has worked for me now for a good 10+ years.
Doughless In the context of trains, I don't know that buying an RTR boxcar and paying shipping charges for that one item, and sales tax, really saves much money compared to driving to the LHS and picking up the materials to build it ourselves. If the argument is made that its more convenient, I get that.
That's assuming you actually have an LHS. The closest hobby shop I am aware of to me is exactly local at 40 miles and they'd have to order stuff (why bother when I get get it online). Their used to be one about 12 miles away, but it closed in the last 6 months and strangely was mostly Marklin trains. I live near a large metro area too.
I'm a bit skeptical that you can do better at an LHS. I do have a selection of online vendors and usually I can find what I need from one of them. The LHS's, not so much. And the hard to find items, patience and Ebay works 99% of the time for me. This has worked for me now for a good 10+ years.
I like online sales for a number of reasons. I just don't see the money advantage if you buy items from different stores and incur separate shipping charges. You could just order a bunch of different items from your LHS and go pick them up in one trip.
The item(s) has to get from the factory to my house either way. Whether the producer/shipper delivers it to my house or I go fetch it at some point in the distribution chain isn't the big factor as to whether or not its cost effective. Its how many separate trips are made by the either the UPS truck or by me to get the products to my house is what matters most. In rural areas the monetary advantage of online shopping is obvious, unless you take the whole wagon into town to pick up all supplies in one trip, like they did on Little House on the Prairie.
riogrande5761 (However, it seems more and more times I visit online big box train stores, I see desclaimers such as "out of stock" or "taking backorders".) I'm a bit skeptical when folks say its less expensive to buy online than at the LHS. I'm a bit skeptical that you can do better at an LHS factoring everything in, assuming you have a big selection, good prices etc. an unusual thing for most of us these days. I do have a selection of online vendors and usually I can find what I need from one of them. The LHS's, not so much. And the hard to find items, patience and Ebay works 99% of the time for me. This has worked for me now for a good 10+ years.
I wanted to address this separately.
So what exactly is "a good selection". Having the item there, ready to buy, when you decide you might want to buy it?
A store can't just order all items and hold them forever. They have to estimate demand. Sure, anybody in the country has access to Trainworld's inventory in NYC, but there are also a lot more customers competing over that inventory. What's the proper balance?
It seems to me that if you want an item that's in demand, you have to act quickly or else run the risk of someone else buying it first. Is not having an item in stock at the time you want to buy it the same thing as "a poor selection"?
Shoulda got there quicker. Its a matter of being close to the store. The online version of that is either surfing their shelves hourly or getting notifications of when the inventory is stocked. The LHS can order it for you and let you know it ready for pick up.
Doughless NittanyLion Even ignoring depreciation or IRS rates, it costs about $0.20 a mile to fuel and maintain plus $3 a day to insure a car in the US. Even a zero mile trip costs $3. These are averages, of course, but an average must be typical. A top load medium USPS box is $12.85. This is a fairly common box, in my experience, for hobby vendors, eBay, and others. Your break even is $9.85 because of that insurance cost. If your time has no value, then you have a one way cost of $4.92. So once you exceed 24.6 miles each way, it was cheaper to ship. For me to drive to the two nearest good shops, it costs me $23.60 or $33.20. I'd be dumb to drive. But that cost is for a trip that is solely dedicated to going to the LHS. Everyone's situation is different, but if you went when you also drove to the grocery store, the hardware store, to or from work, etc.; the cost of any one trip gets reduced significantly. OTOH, when I buy online, every vendor has its own dedicated shipping charge.
NittanyLion Even ignoring depreciation or IRS rates, it costs about $0.20 a mile to fuel and maintain plus $3 a day to insure a car in the US. Even a zero mile trip costs $3. These are averages, of course, but an average must be typical. A top load medium USPS box is $12.85. This is a fairly common box, in my experience, for hobby vendors, eBay, and others. Your break even is $9.85 because of that insurance cost. If your time has no value, then you have a one way cost of $4.92. So once you exceed 24.6 miles each way, it was cheaper to ship. For me to drive to the two nearest good shops, it costs me $23.60 or $33.20. I'd be dumb to drive.
Even ignoring depreciation or IRS rates, it costs about $0.20 a mile to fuel and maintain plus $3 a day to insure a car in the US. Even a zero mile trip costs $3. These are averages, of course, but an average must be typical.
A top load medium USPS box is $12.85. This is a fairly common box, in my experience, for hobby vendors, eBay, and others. Your break even is $9.85 because of that insurance cost. If your time has no value, then you have a one way cost of $4.92. So once you exceed 24.6 miles each way, it was cheaper to ship.
For me to drive to the two nearest good shops, it costs me $23.60 or $33.20. I'd be dumb to drive.
But that cost is for a trip that is solely dedicated to going to the LHS.
Everyone's situation is different, but if you went when you also drove to the grocery store, the hardware store, to or from work, etc.; the cost of any one trip gets reduced significantly.
OTOH, when I buy online, every vendor has its own dedicated shipping charge.
True, but if you're going 120 round trip miles out of the way, it is likely that you are not able to fold in other trips or make an appreciable savings on the hobby portion. Stopping by the store that's five miles from home isn't even a ten percent savings.
I can track down the out of production rolling stock I want online for free and usually get it shipped for free or a lesser cost than the 10 gallons of gas, two and a half hours of time and $9 to get into the Timonium show on the hopes it exists.
DoughlessA store can't just order all items and hold them forever.
Doughless, If I may?
That is the type of old school thinking that has sunk a lot of good shops.
Rather then hold stock until the dust is 5" thick and getting thicker why not use a web page or open a e-Bay store to turn over old stock?
One thing I have not seen recently in train shops is a close out table. This was a major feature in my shop and it worked quite well. Rather than hiold on to an item, let it go at cost to raise funds for new products with a sales history.
I could have posted a "buy it now as it soon will be rare", but nah, ethics always wins.
Even the largest online train warehouses can't have everything in stock. Where I buy most things MRR related the website says "available" if not in stock. I put in my order and I get the day they will have it in along with the confirmation. They have never let me down.
I think the quality of the computerized system these online stores use makes a huge difference in how smoothly the whole operation goes. It is one thing to change with the times and take your store online, it is another to get a computer system that operates in a seamless fashion.
I place an order at the online store and the computer automatically orders the item from the supplier or source, either to replace the item that was just bought or to order it if not in stock. Taking the labour out of the supply stream is a big cost saver and makes you more competitive. Yet I know of a local MRR shop that is suffering a slow death through failure to keep up. He gets an order and then has to either phone or E-mail the supplier to get the Item in or replaced.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Doughless I just don't see the money advantage if you buy items from different stores and incur separate shipping charges. You could just order a bunch of different items from your LHS and go pick them up in one trip.
Again, you have to have a good LHS that offers at least some discount for your "order and pickup local" option to be cost effective. I'm guessing that option is pretty rare these days so really it's a moot point for most of use, a non-option to defend.
But lets say a person has an LHS, the discount isn't typically as much as an online vendor, and then pay sales tax, and some cost to get there (fuel - may not be much but it's there). Then there are places like MBK that discounts a lot more, does not charge tax if you live out of state (for now anyway) and have modest shipping. It may be about the same and then you have the convenience of the item(s) arriveing at your door.
DoughlessSo what exactly is "a good selection". Having the item there, ready to buy, when you decide you might want to buy it? A store can't just order all items and hold them forever. They have to estimate demand. Sure, anybody in the country has access to Trainworld's inventory in NYC, but there are also a lot more customers competing over that inventory. What's the proper balance? It seems to me that if you want an item that's in demand, you have to act quickly or else run the risk of someone else buying it first. Is not having an item in stock at the time you want to buy it the same thing as "a poor selection"?
Good selection ultimately is having what the customer needs/wants without having to order it. My selection of online vendors generaly do have what I want/need. Yes, sometimes I have to be Johny on the spot and order/buy before it goes out of stock. I have a vendor that often has items for a longer time so I can go to them if the prefered vendor with lower shipping doesn't have the item. And that place is a B&M store and has a very good seleciton.
NittanyLion Doughless NittanyLion Even ignoring depreciation or IRS rates, it costs about $0.20 a mile to fuel and maintain plus $3 a day to insure a car in the US. Even a zero mile trip costs $3. These are averages, of course, but an average must be typical. A top load medium USPS box is $12.85. This is a fairly common box, in my experience, for hobby vendors, eBay, and others. Your break even is $9.85 because of that insurance cost. If your time has no value, then you have a one way cost of $4.92. So once you exceed 24.6 miles each way, it was cheaper to ship. For me to drive to the two nearest good shops, it costs me $23.60 or $33.20. I'd be dumb to drive. But that cost is for a trip that is solely dedicated to going to the LHS. Everyone's situation is different, but if you went when you also drove to the grocery store, the hardware store, to or from work, etc.; the cost of any one trip gets reduced significantly. OTOH, when I buy online, every vendor has its own dedicated shipping charge. True, but if you're going 120 round trip miles out of the way, it is likely that you are not able to fold in other trips or make an appreciable savings on the hobby portion. Stopping by the store that's five miles from home isn't even a ten percent savings. I can track down the out of production rolling stock I want online for free and usually get it shipped for free or a lesser cost than the 10 gallons of gas, two and a half hours of time and $9 to get into the Timonium show on the hopes it exists.
I certainly can't relate to that, driving that amount of distance in order to pursue a hobby.
Before the internet, wasn't mail order from big box discount high volume warehouse type stores was a way for rural folks to pursue the hobby? Long's Hobby? Sandard Hobbies? I assume it was cost effective to use mail order instead of driving 120 miles round trip back then too, also in terms of selection.
Instead of comparing the cost of buying online to driving 120 miles to a B&M store, shouldn't we compare the cost of buying online to mail order?
I can't see where the emergence of online buying has really changed anything that much.
Doughlessshouldn't we compare the cost of buying online to mail order?
Aren't those both the same thing?
maxman Doughless shouldn't we compare the cost of buying online to mail order? Aren't those both the same thing?
Doughless shouldn't we compare the cost of buying online to mail order?
That's what I thought.
If so, then back in the day, we had online shopping via Long's and Standard Hobbies.
Has it hurt or helped the hobby that Long's gave way to Trainworld and Standard lost business to MBKlein?
Amazon hasn't changed anything, because back in the day, my family always had the latest edition of Sears, JCPenneys, and Montgomery Ward catalogs from which to order merchandise that wasn't stocked at the local stores.
DoughlessI certainly can't relate to that, driving that amount of distance in order to pursue a hobby.
Many drive long distances to pursue a hobby for sure. In fact I met some Brits in the north of England who go fly to American and drive around the parts of the US to rail fan trains (a hobby). I drive from northern Virginia to Timonium (north side of Baltimore) usually 3 times a year as part of my hobby.
Mind you I don't just drive there to buy trains; it's a trip out with my wife to get out of the house and do something together, go watch trains run on the large portable layouts, browse, shoot the bull, get a taco salad etc. It's the overall experience. If I just wanted to buy trains, I could stay at home and hunt for them online.
Before the internet, wasn't mail order from big box discount high volume warehouse type stores was a way for rural folks to pursue the hobby? Long's Hobby? Sandard Hobbies?
Sure there was and I ordered from places like that, mainly bundles of flex track and turnouts. That was back during my 1st marriage with a wife who hated trains and I was a starving grad student. I bought most of my trains back then at shows and a few hobby shops here and there.
Some argue that Amazon hasn't put Sears, Penny's etc. out of business but they sure seem to be hastening their demize. The closest Sears to me up the road just closed and the pants I am wearing right now I bought at close out just before they closed. Most of the Sears, Penny's and Kmarts in my area are gone now and are closing at record rates. It's very likely there will be no Sears stores left in another year or so. It's kind of sad as I shopped there most of my life and bought Craftsman tools. I have a 25 year old Craftsman cordlless drill that is still going, one of the batteries still limping along - I used it and a Sears Sabre saw as the only power tools to build my last 10x18' layout.
DoughlessAmazon hasn't changed anything, because back in the day, my family always had the latest edition of Sears, JCPenneys, and Montgomery Ward catalogs from which to order merchandise that wasn't stocked at the local stores.
Well, yes, things have changed. Back in the day there was another use for the paper catalogs if one were caught short. Can't easily do that with a computer screen.
riogrande5761 Doughless I certainly can't relate to that, driving that amount of distance in order to pursue a hobby. Many drive long distances to pursue a hobby for sure. In fact I met some Brits in the north of England who go fly to American and drive around the parts of the US to rail fan trains (a hobby). I drive from northern Virginia to Timonium (north side of Baltimore) usually 3 times a year as part of my hobby. Mind you I don't just drive there to buy trains; it's a trip out with my wife to get out of the house and do something together, go watch trains run on the large portable layouts, browse, shoot the bull, get a taco salad etc. It's the overall experience. If I just wanted to buy trains, I could stay at home and hunt for them online. Before the internet, wasn't mail order from big box discount high volume warehouse type stores was a way for rural folks to pursue the hobby? Long's Hobby? Sandard Hobbies? Sure there was and I ordered from places like that, mainly bundles of flex track and turnouts. That was back during my 1st marriage with a wife who hated trains and I was a starving grad student. I bought most of my trains back then at shows and a few hobby shops here and there. Amazon hasn't changed anything, because back in the day, my family always had the latest edition of Sears, JCPenneys, and Montgomery Ward catalogs from which to order merchandise that wasn't stocked at the local stores. Some argue that Amazon hasn't put Sears, Penny's etc. out of business but they sure seem to be hastening their demize. The closest Sears to me up the road just closed and the pants I am wearing right now I bought at close out just before they closed. Most of the Sears, Penny's and Kmarts in my area are gone now and are closing at record rates. It's very likely there will be no Sears stores left in another year or so. It's kind of sad as I shopped there most of my life and bought Craftsman tools. I have a 25 year old Craftsman cordlless drill that is still going, one of the batteries still limping along - I used it and a Sears Sabre saw as the only power tools to build my last 10x18' layout.
Doughless I certainly can't relate to that, driving that amount of distance in order to pursue a hobby.
Yeah, I meant drive far to shop. I go railfanning and train shows to the north side of Atlanta. Its not an economic thing. Its just fun. Same with browsing hobby shops. And I used to leave the house to go visit the LHS, when one was close, but that really wasn't a calculated shopping decision, it was just fun.
Not to drift too far OT, but I was just thinking; back in the 1970's we had those shopping catalogs all the time. Supplement our local stores inventory, and they were pretty popular.
Then they fell out of favor in the 80's and 90's. What happened?
I guess people liked the idea of going to shopping malls to get everything under one roof and make an entertaining day of it.
Now malls have become a PITA, and we are back to ordering things from catalogs again, albeit digital instead of paper.
Companies come and go. Walmart sprang from nowhere, but will probably wind up like Sears if they don't adapt.
And with B&M retail in general, store locations follow the money. New stuff springs up along the suburban push or regentrification areas. If retailers don't follow those waves of demographics, they often struggle and slowly die. Sears stayed put in their malls while Walmart, Target, and Kohls followed the money. Walmart has abandoned old locations, as have Lowes and Home Depot, as they build new ones in better locations.
Never saw a LHS relocate too often.
DoughlessCompanies come and go. Walmart sprang from nowhere, but will probably wind up like Sears if they don't adapt.
I used to work for a large company, and we had one of those meetings where they brought in outside consultants to motivate us. So this one guy came in and told us how Walmart was doing all these great things and should be used as a good example of how things should be done.
My opinion was that Walmart's success was due to Mr. Walton's personal relationship with vendors, employees, and customers, and that when he moved on Walmart would be as bad as everyone else.
So he died, the new breed took over, and they did. Naturally my reward for predicting the future was to be labeled a malcontent and non-team player.
The LHS has been doomed a long time, some have fond memories but I do not as a lot of owners were not people persons (something you need in buisness). Loved e-bay from the start but it has driven the price down on some items but up on others. To get a deal on e-bay it ussually takes time, lots of it but length not accual. Back to the demise of LHS, really picked up with the first deeply discounted mail order firms like Cheap Hobbies and others and the lack of breath of inventory has finished most of them off now. If you want to pay more for stuff at the LHS, then that is your decision, I have never cared, if I could get it cheaper I would in all things in life and yes I am pretty good at finances retiring for the first time at 29 (accually working, not inventing something).
Just thinking about this. I remember back in the 80's hobby shop owners commenting about the mail order firms and limited runs being a problem. I think the online auctions have affected more the trainshow and used stuff with e-tailers hitting more the hobby shop. I guess what has spurred this more is that the LHS is not so local anymore. Through most of my life I have been a good hour from a hobby shop- so that has an effect on where you get supplies. So many hobby shops went away because their owners aged out. Our one here, the owner retired in his 80's. Looking at a MR from the early 90's the other day reminded me that it was not just the LHS that went out- Long's America's Hobby Center, SMC, Hobbies for men, Crazy Charlies (that place ripped me off when they went out) Pro Custom Hobbies, Charles RO, Standard Hobby Supply, all of these mail orders are gone. If you look a lot of the hobby shops in the back of a 70's MR are not there in the 80's or 90's. Maybe what makes a difference today is that a lot of new ones have not opened.
I got ripped off too by one of the mail order firms, the guy went to jail but I never got any money back.
drgwcsLooking at a MR from the early 90's the other day reminded me that it was not just the LHS that went out- Long's America's Hobby Center, SMC, Hobbies for men, Crazy Charlies (that place ripped me off when they went out) Pro Custom Hobbies, Charles RO, Standard Hobby Supply, all of these mail orders are gone.
Was there another Pro Custom Hobbies:
http://www.procustomhobbies.com/
maxman drgwcs Looking at a MR from the early 90's the other day reminded me that it was not just the LHS that went out- Long's America's Hobby Center, SMC, Hobbies for men, Crazy Charlies (that place ripped me off when they went out) Pro Custom Hobbies, Charles RO, Standard Hobby Supply, all of these mail orders are gone. Was there another Pro Custom Hobbies: http://www.procustomhobbies.com/
drgwcs Looking at a MR from the early 90's the other day reminded me that it was not just the LHS that went out- Long's America's Hobby Center, SMC, Hobbies for men, Crazy Charlies (that place ripped me off when they went out) Pro Custom Hobbies, Charles RO, Standard Hobby Supply, all of these mail orders are gone.
Yes and no.
Pro Custom hobbies was originally owned by Joe Luber, passed away many years ago now, and was located in Catonsville MD. Lee Riley of Bachmann fame got his start working at Pro Custom in those days.
Joe and his team were pioneers in many aspects of the hobby and its marketing.
Today under new ownership they carry on now located in more rural Eldersburg MD, and they still sell mailorder via the internet.
Sheldon