BRAKIE I'll tell you straight up, I have some cars I was half afraid to change out couplers because of the minute detail.
When I get a new house car, I generally remove the floor/underframe assembly and stick the body on one of those spring-loaded paint holders so I can weather it (powdered charcoal) and then spray it with flat finish. I did that with one of the new Tangent 40' 'baby hi-cube' cars and IIRC broke two of the stirrup steps and lost another one just separating the chassis from the body. I had to buy some new ones (Detail Associates I think), not expensive but another cost to an already fairly expensive car.
rrinker The coupler boxes can fall off Athearn BB cars just looking at them sideways - it was perhaps an ingenious design but as the modl ages, the tab on the frame seems to get smaller ans amaller, or at least less sharply defined, leading to the clip to not hold so well.
Randy,When I started building BB cars back in the 60s I soon learn the secretes of building those kits and the most important step was to hear a click when you place the clip on the coupler box. A good 30% of my old BB cars didn't have screws holding the clip on.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Pinching the Athearn metal coupler covers enough to ensure a snug fit has worked well for me; I've never had any fall off. But as it is, my Athearn blue box colleciton has slowly dwindled in favor of other, newer, freight cars. Probably my biggest collection of Athearn blue box is mostly 86' auto box cars. Assuming a better version of those doesn't come out sooner, I will proabably modify the coupler box with the Details West Long Cushion Draft Gear box for 86' long cars.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
rrinker The coupler boxes can fall off Athearn BB cars just looking at them sideways - it was perhaps an ingenious design but as the modl ages, the tab on the frame seems to get smaller ans amaller, or at least less sharply defined, leading to the clip to not hold so well. Even when the clip is bent. Most of mine I have since screwed on, and most other brands, the couple box screws to the car instead of clipping on. --Randy
The coupler boxes can fall off Athearn BB cars just looking at them sideways - it was perhaps an ingenious design but as the modl ages, the tab on the frame seems to get smaller ans amaller, or at least less sharply defined, leading to the clip to not hold so well. Even when the clip is bent. Most of mine I have since screwed on, and most other brands, the couple box screws to the car instead of clipping on.
--Randy
There is no question the Athearn coupler box cover can be problematic. Easily one third, or more, of my 800 freight cars are Athearn blue box cars. I have not had a coupler box cover fall off in decades. And I have not added screws or otherwise retrofitted them.
The real pribkem is not the design, it is variations in quality contol for both the plastic underframe and cover.
Here is what I do. Carefully clean excess mold flash from around the latch pins on the side of the coupler box using an exacto knife and a small file.
Next make sure the sides of the metal cover are truely 90 degrees to the bottom. Don't just squeeze the sides together, this just bends the bottom part. Hold the bottom against a flat surface, and bend one side tab at a time until they are truely 90 degrees to the bottom.
I buy extra covers and will reject "problem" covers in favor of a new one.
This has pretty much always worked for me, figured this out about age 14 building blue box kits on the counter while working in the hobby shop.........
Sheldon
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
mbinsewiI wasn't trying to rebute your post Larry, and I know all about that metal "clip on" Athearn box cover, I've undone a few.
Mike,No worries..Its just these highly detail fragile cars we have today and I handle them like they was antique China dinningware..
Maybe I should have kept my old trusty BB and Roundhouse cars..
I wasn't trying to rebute your post Larry, and I know all about that metal "clip on" Athearn box cover, I've undone a few.
I don't have many cars that are detailed like that, and few that I have, I have not had a problem, but the detailed cars are mostly in my continuous running trains.
I just don't justify the extra cost of making my cars with automated uncoupling hardware.
To me, it's not a big deal. To the younger, or perhaps "more savey" operators, if this is what your striving for in realism, go for it! Let the rest of know how it works!.
Mike
My You Tube
GraffenI installed Sergent couplers. They open with a magnetic wand and looks absolutely terrific! Sure, they demand that you do the same work as the real workers do. You line up the couplers, open them and slowly connect them. To uncouple you add slack before holding the magnetic wand over the coupler, and then move them apart.
I started with Kadee #5s. Then after a while the trip pins started bothering me (appearance wise). I started snipping them. Ran into some couplers from canada with stronger trip pins (you cant use xuron pliers on them). Along the way I met my wife's classmate from high school at a train show. I was introduced to Sergent couplers.
Ordered my first pack of six the next week.
Then a second pack of six.
The the bulk pack..so on.
Im about 60-70% converted. The rest have glued on coupler box lids. Slow, painful progress from here forward. I usually build about 20 in a row then install them.
Doesnt solve your remote uncoupling desire. Still need a magetic wand. I enjoy the enhanced operation, and not having to do what I might call the "Kadee shuffle" to uncouple cars over fixed magentic ramps, or jam a skewer into the couplers (no risk of loosening coupler box cover, ie glued or screwed inplace, I dont go for the Athearn metal clip solution, so thats not a problem).
So I third the Sergent Coupler recommendation. As I (and I think others) mentioned, they will not provide you with a way to uncouple remotely, and you need to be able to reach every industry spot.
mbinsewiI've never damaged anything with the huge power pole coming down from above.
Mike,With today's highly detailed and fragile cars you've been extremely lucky.. Even with the old BB cars one could cause the coupler box to come loose.
I' ll tell you straight up, I have some cars I was half afraid to change out couplers because of the minute detail.
BNSF UP and others modeler I am using kadee #5 couplers. The standard. I want to snip off "pins" or whatever you want to call them, but I still want to uncouple the cars without sticking a skewer into them or manually uncoupling them in any way. I have two ideas but I am posting this for more. My first idea is to hide strong magnets on either side of the track which will pull the couplers from the side. My second idea is to ditch magnets entirely, and have some sort of rod discreetly stick out under the car or under the couplers, and push up slowly, to simulate the amount of time it would take for a railroad worker to uncouple the couplers and walk to a safe place. Then, I can put actual model airhoses where they belong, hopefully the neat ones that join and break apart magnetically. Please brainstorm below at will!
I am using kadee #5 couplers. The standard. I want to snip off "pins" or whatever you want to call them, but I still want to uncouple the cars without sticking a skewer into them or manually uncoupling them in any way. I have two ideas but I am posting this for more. My first idea is to hide strong magnets on either side of the track which will pull the couplers from the side. My second idea is to ditch magnets entirely, and have some sort of rod discreetly stick out under the car or under the couplers, and push up slowly, to simulate the amount of time it would take for a railroad worker to uncouple the couplers and walk to a safe place. Then, I can put actual model airhoses where they belong, hopefully the neat ones that join and break apart magnetically. Please brainstorm below at will!
If you really want that kind of "intimacy" in simulating operations, maybe a larger scale would be good idea, like 1/4" "O" scale two rail?
I have heard about and seen the videos on the magnetic air hoses. My 50 years of experiance in this hobby questions the reliable operation of such a design in HO.
DISCLAIMER - I own about 800 freight cars all with regular head Kadee couplers with the pins in tact.
Reliable operation of moderate or large fleets of HO rolling stock requires some concessions in my experiance.
Here are my standards:
No semi scale couplers - why? Because I have found they require extra force when coupling to regular head Kadee couplers. And while they are smaller, they have a strange looking shape to allow coupling with the regular head coupler.
No code 88 wheels - My track is pretty close to original NMRA standards, and code 110 wheels work best. Plus I feel you are simply trading one out of scale look for a different one - the masive gap between the wheels and the side frames with code 88 wheels.
Trucks - most, not all, are sprung metal trucks with Intermountain or similar wheel sets.
Why do I bring up trucks in a coupler discussion? Because track and trucks relate directly to another reason I do not use semi scale couplers - side to side gathering range of couplers. The standard head has a larger gathering range much more agreeable to the track and truck standards I am using.
Air hoses - I was once a detail nut. Long before today's high end RTR models, way back in the dark ages of the 1970's, I was adding full brake rigging to all sorts of models, and CalScale air hoses.
They simply proved to be to fragile, no matter how or what you did. So I decided to accept the Kadee "air hose" as acceptable.
NEXT DISCLAIMER - with a 1000 sq ft layout room, 4 mainline trains running at once, typical train length 40-50 cars, I am a little more about the overall broad view rather than being focused in on the details of one car........
Don't get me wrong, I like well detailed models, but not every car on the layout needs to be ultra detailed, because.......
As a 50 car train rolls by at 35 SMPH, the little Kadee "air hoses" look realistic enough for me.......
Uncoupling - the problem with magnets is location - railroads uncouple cars where ever they need to.......
I don't really like the "from the top skewer" thing, it has never worked that well for me. I seem to have best luck actually moving the "air hose" with a small screwdriver - which I also use to throw my own type of turnout ground throw.....
NEXT DISCLAIMER - I don't use DCC, so decoder equiped couplers are a non starter here. It would cost upwards of $3000 just to put decoders in my 130 locos, 800 freight cars - not a shot. Not to mention the logistics of using such a system.....
Sergent couplers - great for those willing to adjust all their operations, track plan and situations around that idea - not for me.
Your second idea for a "thru the track ramp" is designed to fail. It will require too much accuracy in positioning the cars and like a Kadee magnet, it is only in one spot. And it would seem impossible for it to set up the delay backing feature of the Kadee. Not to mention that it will likely lift off the track as many cars as it uncouples.
Having your cake, and eating too is a really tough one on this topic.
You can have a very realistic looking model with Sergent couplers and scale air hoses (magnetic or not), or you can have something that works 97.9% of the time even in large fleets with wide variations in equipment brand, type, track, weight, etc.
Given all the variables, and the small size of HO, a user friendly solution to both seems unlikely.
So, rather than just tell you it won't work, I have tried to give you a fair evaluation of the problems and the trade offs of the currently available solutions, while also sharing my choices and some background on my own early efforts at air hose details.
I am not trying to start a war or reinvent the wheel. I just wanted some brainstorming for new ideas.
I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.
Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel?
Kadee couplers have worked with magnets for years, with no issues, because of those grossly oversized "air hoses" that are on them. Without them, you can not use magnets.
Here's my huge question though - How well can you see those oversized air lines when your train is moving? When my trains are operating, I don't notice the oversized knuckles, nor those oversized air lines.
And yes, I know that Kadee calls them glad-hands, but most try to make them look like air lines.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
FWIW I am removing the trip pins from all my Kadee couplers, as I've never really liked the limitations of magnets/ramps etc. I've been uncoupling by hand for 30 years now, seems to work just fine. Just reach around one car from the top and grab the truck. Lift a little bit to disengage the coupler. Put the car back down. You can shift the car a little to the right to engage the coupler on the other car for delayed coupling (push the car along to drop it in a spur track for example). For me I think it would be more hazardous to cars to reach between them with a skewer or some other gizmo - peeling off ladders, brake wheels, and the like - than to do it my way.
To me the semi-scale head Kadee is a nice compromise between looks and functionality.
I'm sticking with the stick, skewer that is, to do the uncoupling. I have the Kadee hand held magnet uncoupler, works kind of OK, but as far as automating this, check around, a lot of people have been trying to develop the next new exciting lastest and greatest way to uncouple cars. Most require a decoder for each car, and may two? one on each end? No way. I've never damaged anything with the huge power pole coming down from above.
Maybe when it gets to the point of the brakeman stepping down off the train, walking along it, and doing his job, then getting on the ladder to ride the car to it's next switch move, automated uncoupling will be a serious option.
Good luck with your brain storming, I've got some switching to do.
Mike.
snjroy DSchmitt https://www.smart-coupler.com/ https://www.precimodels.com/images/pdf/DCC-Uncoupler-Kit-HO_en.pdf I also would NOT look forward changing my entire fleet for better technology, including couplers and decoders (I'm still not done installing decoders on my locos...). But I must say that these DCC-controlled uncouplers look pretty cool. Anyone out there have first hand experience with them?? Simon
DSchmitt https://www.smart-coupler.com/ https://www.precimodels.com/images/pdf/DCC-Uncoupler-Kit-HO_en.pdf
https://www.smart-coupler.com/
https://www.precimodels.com/images/pdf/DCC-Uncoupler-Kit-HO_en.pdf
I also would NOT look forward changing my entire fleet for better technology, including couplers and decoders (I'm still not done installing decoders on my locos...). But I must say that these DCC-controlled uncouplers look pretty cool. Anyone out there have first hand experience with them??
Simon
Yes, I have an MTH loco that has DCC couplers. Not too useful on the loco, as all I cna do is drop the entire train or pick it up. The MTH ones work far worse than the DCC controlled Kadees - the open easily enough, but to get them to close you have to slam into the train harder than I really want to do. I did play with homebrew DCC couplers that used a small pager motor to pull the coupler open, those worked well, when closed they would couple up just like the kadees they were, no extra hard crash needed.
But - and it's a big but - a decoder in EVERY piece of rolling stock? Dial up the car's address every time you want to uncouple? No thanks. I'll just play brakeman and use a skewer. I have many of the highly detailed kadee cars and also Branchline Blueprint cars with lots of delicate added detail parts, and I've never damaged anything using a skewer. But I haven't taken the drastic step of clipping off the Kadee hoses yet. Instead I paint them like Cody does, oily black with a dot of silver at the tip (usually the tips have an angled cut from the metal being sheared to leangth - I touch the silver paint marker to just one side. It doesn't take long to do (I sat out on the porch one sunny day and painted my entire train I take to the club, 30 cars and 5 locos. I did have a helper squirrel though). And it makes a huge difference - none of my cars are weathered, but 'rusting' the coupler and painting the 'air hose' makes a huge difference in appearance.
Maybe this would work for you.
I understand that the couplers are oversize, but that doesn't appear anywhere near as noticable as the pins. Thanks for all the responses!
My very early American flyer passenger train has lovely knuckle couplers. They have a button on the underside to uncouple them.
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
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Remote uncoupling could theoretically be achieved via a passive chip/active reader RFID setup, each car has a reader at each end that activates the uncoupling motor, just tap the passive chip on the roof at end you want uncoupled and done, I'm sure something similar could be done with magnets.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
Yes, I always thought it odd that the c.1950 metal Lionel couplers were the most realistic 'model train' couplers made (except for being oversized of course!)
There was a company back in the '40's-50's that made O scale couplers that were designed to be used on older freight cars with the vertical brake staff. The coupler on that end connected to the brake staff, and turning the brake wheel opened the coupler. Not sure what company it was, or if they every made them in HO. Just happened that I picked up an old used car (wood craftsman's kit apparently) with those couplers installed on it back when I was in O scale in the seventies.
I always thought that the Lionel 0/27 style couplers were the best design because they actually had knuckles which opened. I don’t know why nobody ever tried to shrink them down to HO scale. Some of them have a small lever on the side that you push down to open the knuckle. They seem the most realistic. Maybe some version of that would be good which used realistic hardware.
I have some cars that do not have pins and they uncouple just fine with a screwdriver.
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
My YouTube
There is another alternative. Years ago (I should say, decades ago, maybe in the 1960s or early 70s) there was an article in MR by a guy who took his Kadee #5/10s (that is what we called them back then - Kadee never did make a #10 but they intended to) and simply reversed the metal pin so it essentially went towards the trucks. Worked just as good he claimed, which makes sense. You'd perhaps need a good long magnet to retain the "delayed action" feature but it seems fewer and fewer guys use that feature anyway.
A different article that I remember more distantly but same general idea - the guy removed the original pin and replaced it with a pin that went backwards then made a larger loop forwards so it ended directly under the couple draft gear box. I think his goal was to provide more metal for the magnet to work on so as to preserve the delayed action feature. [Amended post - this second article is November 1969 MR. I cannot find the first article and perhaps it was just a "helpful hint" or MR Clinic item that did not warrant an index mention.]
The virtue of both ideas is that the scale model air hose is not fighting for believability with a gross approximation right next to it.
The latest MR with that interesting article on magnetic ties makes a good point, one that as I age becomes more and more relevant. Once your hands start shaking even a little (or as in my case your eyesight is going south) there are many aspects of our hobby that become first a challenge and then simply not available, and using the skewer or swizzle stick to uncouple - perhaps even the Sargent magnetic wand or the Rix magnetic collar -- is one of them.
Dave Nelson
SeeYou190 My main concern is basically "What are you thinking?"!
Kevin,That's what I think every time I see a telephone pole come from the sky and go between today's fragile museum quality freight cars then a giant's hand pushes the cars apart..
Color me old fashion in you must but,for my updated freight car fleet KD magnets is still the best solution.
I agree with wayne.
But I went another route...
If you want to get rid of the pins because of scale looks, the problem remains, as the Kadee (#5) couplers aren't really so very true to scale...
I installed Sergent couplers. They open with a magnetic wand and looks absolutely terrific!
Sure, they demand that you do the same work as the real workers do. You line up the couplers, open them and slowly connect them.
To uncouple you add slack before holding the magnetic wand over the coupler, and then move them apart.
I agree with Kevin, but if you want to cut off the "pins" and add the magnetic airhoses, go ahead and do so.
BNSF UP and others modeler...to simulate the amount of time it would take for a railroad worker to uncouple the couplers and walk to a safe place...
After you've modified the couplers and added the airhoses, grab a skewer and take a leisurely stroll (you're now the guy going to make the cut) and do the uncoupling manually.I've never been overly fond of the appearance of the magnetic gladhands/pins, but they do work. You can simulate the time for that walk by leaving the couplers intact, too....simply wait for the guy to walk to the proper spot, then he can signal the engineer to give him some slack, so that the cut can be made. You've titled the thread very aptly, but in my opinion, you're looking for a solution to a problem which doesn't exist.
As for the DCC solutions referred to by DSchmitt, I eschewed DCC because DC is so much simpler...there's no way I'm going to wire a couple dozen locomotives, 40 or 50 passenger cars and perhaps 250-300 freight cars, plus untold numbers of MoW equipment for remote uncoupling when I already have that feature.I can appreciate the ingenuity, but I'm sure that those same minds can come up with something that's not only useful, but also practical.
Wayne
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.