Home Depot, well I don't want to start trouble, but let's just say that as a skilled carpenter it's not some place I would look for an installation contractor, and as a contractor, I would not work for them as a subcontractor. And as a contractor, we only buy a small percentage of our materials there........
My issue with Home Depot was not looking for a contractor - I don't think I would go that route. Rather we purchased our applicances from HD on the Nov sales but the installation services were a nightmare. We had to be home from work seven (7) full days before all 6 applicances were finally installed.
The 1st attempt installers refused to bring anything because the washer was found to be damaged and I guess they didn't want to make multiple trips. Hah.
The second attempt the washer was still damaged (we found out later they still had the same washer - what a bunch of incompetent bafoons!), but they brought the other 5 appliances. We saw the dishwasher was damaged and refused it and got the 4 appliances installed.
On the 3rd attempt, the wash machine was delivered but it was not installed on the drain pan as promised by the sales person. The installers refused despite HD saying the would do that (and it's standard homes with laundry rooms on the 1st or 2nd floors with washrooms with a floor drain).
Day 4, we complained to HD about washer not installed properly and they sent two clowns out from the store, and I had to supply them tools because they didn't bring most of what was needed and they screwed up and installed the drain pan too close to the wall so the cloths washer wouldn't fit. They realized they botched the job and left the washer in front of our fridge disconnected - things were worse than before they arrived.
Day five, HD promised to finally deliver and install an undamaged dishwasher. We stayed home from work - got the call the night before confirming delivery - but no one showed up.
Day six, HD installers finally delivered and installed the dishwasher.
Day seven, HD hired plumber to correctly install the cloths washer.
Summary - bought six appliances on Nov 24, first attempt to deliver was Dec 5, finally concluded after 7th attempt on Dec 22. HD gets a big fat F for customer experience buying home applicances. But who knows, maybe Sears and Best buy use the same delivery people? At least we were compensated between HD, and the two appliance companies to the tune of $460 back.
Oh, and the icing on the cake, the front load washmachine makes a low rattling sound on the spin cycle cause the soap drawer rattles. We are working with the manufacturer to get it replaced.
So advice on finding good contractors - word of mouth, recommendations from your friends who have had good experiances, is the best way. (I have never advertized in 20 years)
Well, my wife works for a couple of Phd gov contractors. The guy who is their contractor promised to build them a screened in room over their existing deck and have it finished by early fall so they could enjoy it. Well, here it is half way through Jan and he still hasn't finished the job. I that recommendation is falling through. We are trying word of mouth but don't know a lot of people. My sister had good luck with a contractor she has used so I'm going to try to contact him. I guess if you've lived in one place for a long long time, it helps as you have had time to find good contractors word of mouth. My wife is good at looking and researching but in the Haymarket/Gainsville/Manassas area, it's really spotty finding anyone who will even return your call.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Ok, Steve, I will not mention it again.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
bearman Atlantic Central, you do have a point, but, maybe I am strange, I am more than willing to pay a premium for personalized service at my local RR hobby store. Problem is that they are really small by now and the only thing keeping them afloat is their internet sales. There is another hobby story nearby that has a RR dept, but ever since the old timer left, useful advice is hard to come by. I used to walk intothat store and always made sure I spent some money, and I am not talking about a doallar or two, just to have a chat with Sam. The point to be made, I think, is that the hobby is dying. I am 63 years old and I am the youngest member of my club, and it has 8 members. I appreciate the possible issues with MB Klein and, in fact, I placed the order with them a little while ago. I guess all my good expereinces over the years finally outweighed this last incident.
Atlantic Central, you do have a point, but, maybe I am strange, I am more than willing to pay a premium for personalized service at my local RR hobby store. Problem is that they are really small by now and the only thing keeping them afloat is their internet sales. There is another hobby story nearby that has a RR dept, but ever since the old timer left, useful advice is hard to come by. I used to walk intothat store and always made sure I spent some money, and I am not talking about a doallar or two, just to have a chat with Sam.
The point to be made, I think, is that the hobby is dying. I am 63 years old and I am the youngest member of my club, and it has 8 members.
I appreciate the possible issues with MB Klein and, in fact, I placed the order with them a little while ago. I guess all my good expereinces over the years finally outweighed this last incident.
I understand, we are about the same age.
BUT, the hobby is not dieing.
It has however changed in some very dramatic ways.
And, retailing, in this hobby or elsewhere, is changing very rapidly.
There are some good aspects of this. Single point distribution, that is having larger blocks of product in one place for quick shipment to anyone, anywhere, does improve overall access to products while also lowering the cost of providing those products.
The down side - you can't touch it first. But really, I have gotten to the point were I don't want to buy the stuff off the shelf that "you" touched and did not buy.......
Other down side - customer service - OK, I get that too. But after 50 years in this hobby, repairing and selling trains starting at age 14, having great mentors as a teen and young adult in this hobby, pretty much the only customer service I need is to have defective stuff fixed or replaced........
I realize not everyone is in my situation........... But I did not start the discounting that helped kill the local shops............ M B Klein did. As one of the first brick and mortar stores to offer measureable discounts, they were the beginning of all this, way back in the 60's.
When I ran a hobby shop train department in the late 70's we saw it coming then. Mail order and deep discounting was already hurting the small shops.
Hope you get your question answered, but if it was me buying DCC, I would buy EASY DCC from CVP.
Sheldon
OK, let's not turn this into another "the hobby is dying" thread, please.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
riogrande, you may have something there. There was a RR store in Mesa that closed down because the kids did not want to take over the business.
Oh, and Atlantic Central, I do not contract anything through Home Depot. I mostly relay on word of mouth from people I know. I have had the same HVAC guy for over 20 years. I have had the same electrician for over 20 years. And, I just lost my plumber, drat. I always check with them if I am looking for another trade to put to work.
But seriously, you (and the rest of us) have already told them that you are willing to trade personalized customer service for lower prices when we allowed all the LHS's to close.
The above is assuming discount vendors are the reason LHS's closed in the first place. The majority of those I've observed closing in the last 10 years are due to the owner retiring, passing away or getting out of the business due to illness. Caboose Hobbies owner decided close not to continue and retire last year when his lease was up - he could have moved but he was at retirement age so that was the route he went.
carl425 bearman I think a customer rebellion is in order. Take the NCE stuff you already have and toss it in the trash. Buy new Digitrax stuff from Tony's. That'll show 'em. But seriously, you (and the rest of us) have already told them that you are willing to trade personalized customer service for lower prices when we allowed all the LHS's to close.
bearman I think a customer rebellion is in order.
Take the NCE stuff you already have and toss it in the trash. Buy new Digitrax stuff from Tony's. That'll show 'em.
This. Bloody this. All these things are driven by what customers are willing to pay for.Just like cars, clothing, and everything else. "Buy American" applies to the other guy.
When customers make it clear that low price means more than anything else, they will get low price and nothing else.
"You can get exactly what you ask for and still not be happy."
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
I am a crank, therefore I have a crank phone, even though it uses buttons.
Carl is right on point.
We all want low prices and great service. Service costs money......super discount prices are for people who already know the ins and outs of what they are buying.....
I happen to be a "contractor". I do mostly historic restoration work, like these:
And I was once was the guy behind the counter at the local hobby shop fixing your train or answering your questions..........
But as a group you all voted in favor of 30% off intead of that personalized service and knowledge.
And guess what? I live near MB Klein, have known those people for 40 years, I grew up in and round the hobby industry here in Baltimore.
There are not many people working at Kleins today who are fully versed in all aspects of the hobby, and they are VERY BUSY simply filling orders. Heck, they were very busy just waiting on customers with long shopping lists 30 years ago.....
Just because they did not "stop the presses" for your question/problem does not mean they are not interested in helping you. It just means others are ahead of you, or the person who knows your answer is not available that minute, etc.
Second to that, look for the little guy, with the least overhead, who does the least advertizing. Chances are he is good, busy, and affordable.........you might have to get on his list and wait.......my customers do.
We have a saying,
"You can have good quality work,
you can have it done quick,
you can have it done at the lowest price.
Pick two, you can't have all three"
I call my customers back...... I currenty have a one year back log of work, and several people who want estimates....... They will have to get on the list.......
Why, becuase we are a company of only three people. We do have a few subs we use for some stuff on big jobs, but the nature of what we do is very specialized and skilled.
And considering that skill and expertise level, we are very competitively priced......so they wait.
But what do I know? I'm just a guy who started working in a hobby shop at age 14, has been mostly self employed since age 23, and now at 60 has all the work I can do.....
PS - Jim, we refinish floors, shame you are just a little far away. We refinished these 100 year old floors (and did all the other restoration work in this photo):
I suppose you have a point carl.
bearmanI think a customer rebellion is in order.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
nealknowsmany retail places as well as factories are short staffed, especially on Mondays. This day is always the busiest for any business as they're trying to catch up from the weekend, phone messages and more. I've waited more than a day for a call back from NCE and when they did call, they apologized for the delay.
Good point. NCE is a small shop, too. They get lots of calls on Monday because of all the folks who just unpacked theur DCC systems over the weekend and now need help.
If there was just the OP's call in, then yeah, what happened? But based on my experience with NCE, a whole bunch of others are in line here. I'm pretty sure that NCE will get back to them all, but probably in the order they were taken in. Sometimes, you just have to wait in line in this life.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
BroadwayLion riogrande5761 I think you are being overly melodramatic by using the word "astounded". Hehehe... I was thinking of Professor Lupin chewing out Harry for using that map while there were still enemies aboaut. ROAR
riogrande5761 I think you are being overly melodramatic by using the word "astounded".
Hehehe... I was thinking of Professor Lupin chewing out Harry for using that map while there were still enemies aboaut.
ROAR
LOL. "I solemnly swear that I am up to no good." My wife just picked up a T shirt with that saying on it at a shop over the weekend. It seems to be a long term theme here at MR forums - well, should we be surprised with so many grumpy old men? =D Or grumpy old men in training? Raise hand.
I think a customer rebellion is in order. Like on MASH, my most favorite TV show of all time, when Hawkeye started a rebellion against the mess tent menu, liver or fish. Seriously, I can undersatnd boom or bust for some industries like the construction related trades...heck I got some work done really cheap a few years ago when things were slow around here. But the model railroad business????????????
Actually Neal, the answer is no. Until now, I have never had any issues with MBK. Which is why I was surprised about this latest incident.
Not taking sides here, but many retail places as well as factories are short staffed, especially on Mondays. This day is always the busiest for any business as they're trying to catch up from the weekend, phone messages and more. I've waited more than a day for a call back from NCE and when they did call, they apologized for the delay. I'm on the sales side, and never call any customer on a Monday due to the scearios I stated above.
I hope that whatever issue you were having with NCE didn't stop you from doing other things. We have many other things in our lives that we can stress over. Besides, some things are worth waiting for in our hobby. MBK is a great supplier to the hobby, so maybe give them the benefit of the doubt unless this has happened to you with them multiple times..
Neal
riogrande5761I think you are being overly melodramatic by using the word "astounded".
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
If a contractor doesn’t call you back you don’t want to do business with them. It means they are to busy. When I worked for an electrician and business was booming and we had more work than we could handle we would bid jobs we didn’t want to take three times higher than they should have been and we would still get the job. It's a boom or bust industry. As for buying model railroad equipment, there are several dealers all selling the same products. Shop around until you find another dealer you like. But I agree that customer service isn't what it used to be. Recently I bought my girlfriend some expensive makeup online and I e-mailed their customer service regarding it. They took three weeks to answer my e-mail even though they e-mailed me advertising every single day.
LIONS seldom call back. LIONS have big furry paws and so it is hard to manipulate the crank on the telephone.
Yes, we had a crank phone here. Our telephone number was "15"
As a matter of fact it is STILL "15" they just added a bunch of numbers in front of it a few at a time. It became 3315 and then 974-3315 and now it is 701 974 3315, but the 15 is still the same number ever since they used barbed wire and fence posts for their connections. Now we have fiber optic. Copper wire is all gone. Fiber Optic for everything, telephone, TV and Internet. Pretty good for a little rural co-op eh?
Oh, calling back... "Take two of these and call me in the morning."
Get the name of him to whom you spoke, write it down. Everypone I call gives me a tracking number, but then I'm a big time LION. (Color me important). [Not]. Chat on the website works good. But REALLY... Have you EVER tried to call Microsoft. Or worse yet Google!
When I contact TrainWorld, I alwas send an e-mail. Methinniks that is the best way to make contact.
or just stand at the edge of the savana and ROAR
riogrande5761Home Depot, umpteen contractors we are trying to get cost estimates from.
.
Oh man, I feel your pain here.
Between Home Depot and contractors poor customer service combined, I am about ready to lose my mind.
Spending thousands of dollars on home improvement is not enough to get a call back I have found out.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
bearman riogrande...I can go to the Home Depot down the street. As for contractors, I will not do business with one that will not return my calls.
riogrande...I can go to the Home Depot down the street. As for contractors, I will not do business with one that will not return my calls.
I guess it depends on where you live. In northern Virginia, it's the norm to not hear back from contractors so I'd guess if you refused to do business, you wouldn't get much work done. My guess is conditions around here are like that because there is so much business and contractors are so busy, they don't need to call you back. I mean, why else? If they were hungry and needed the money, they would call you right?
Let me give you an example. We need our hardwood floors re-finished. We have tried to get at least 4 or 5 contractors to give us an estimate during the past 4-5 weeks, so far only one estimate in hand. One guy answered my wife saying he was in Florida playing baseball. Since he returned, we've played phone tag a bit and decided he must be too busy. A couple of others seem to be taking their time.
Hey, I understand how you feel, I really do. I've just found in this area you have to chase people up or you don't get anything done. Sad but true.
Anyway, I've tried to call MBK before and not got callbacks too on days they were open. Well, again, business is good for them so if you aren't happy about having to call them back again, vote with your wallet - problem solved for you right?
Anyway, re: MBK, with a little imagination you can guess why you didn't get a call back and then not feel "astounded". They could be short staffed and busy and not had a chance. I've noticed during the past year MBK's staff is reduced a lot from what it was a few years ago when I have visited the store in person.
Check the DCC forum as of a day or two ago. Just got one response from South Penn a few minutes ago and I responded. That post is up to 130 +/- views, one response. South Penn was trying to be helpful, and I appreciate it.
bearman I asked my question here, 100+ views, no responses
I asked my question here, 100+ views, no responses
Mike
I'm not familiar with the NCE setup, but here are the SB5 instructions. The diagram looks like your drawing.
file:///home/generic/Downloads/SB5%20Manual.pdf
Tom, I talked to a real person, in both cases. I can understand about leaving a message and not getting a call back. In the latter case I can understand why there would be no call back.
Bear,
Thanks for your answer. I didn't know if you actually talked to someone, or merely left a phone message. Sometimes when someone says they "contacted" a business it can mean either one.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
riogrande...I can go to the Home Depot down the street. As for contractors, I will not do business with one that will not return my calls. I am about to spend 5500$ on a home improvement, I got 4 estimates, and I am going with the contractor that answered my call and talked to me. Customer service is important as far as I am concerned. If someone, I dont care who, is not going to honor their commitment then I do not care to spend my money with them.
And while I was not in retail when I was working, my father owned a store, which I worked at, and he practised total quality management before it was all the rage, even though he did not know what the concept was all about.
MBK was not closed. They answered the phone and if they were short staffed, I could understand that if they told me. I am ready to spend 300$, if that is not enough for a call back then I guess I am a cheapskate when it comes to their revenue stream.
Or, you could have asked your question here. The odds are high that someone would have given you the answer by now.
Don