riogrande5761 ... And while I am no steam expert, a few here have commented that steam engines often have a lot more issues than model diesel engines. Just ask John Mock here who has had enough issues with plastic HO steam engines that he has largely sworn them off and is now a brass steam engine fan. Just something to keep in the back of your mind.
...
And while I am no steam expert, a few here have commented that steam engines often have a lot more issues than model diesel engines. Just ask John Mock here who has had enough issues with plastic HO steam engines that he has largely sworn them off and is now a brass steam engine fan. Just something to keep in the back of your mind.
Hello. I did experience some quality issues with plastic locos, generally more with diesels than steam...and I do prefer brass steam power, especially the more recent models from Boo Rim and Samtech, because they are outstanding. If you spend the money you do get what you pay for. They can be amazing.
However the reality is not all can afford brass and I myself have had to fill out my loco roster with plastic. I needed to sell my brass in favor of other things...like to pay for boys' baseball.
There are still some brass cabooses I hope to get sometime and the Overland SD-20 in ICG.
John
PRR8259 riogrande5761 ... And while I am no steam expert, a few here have commented that steam engines often have a lot more issues than model diesel engines. Just ask John Mock here who has had enough issues with plastic HO steam engines that he has largely sworn them off and is now a brass steam engine fan. Just something to keep in the back of your mind. Hello. I did experience some quality issues with plastic locos, generally more with diesels than steam...and I do prefer brass steam power, especially the more recent models from Boo Rim and Samtech, because they are outstanding. If you spend the money you do get what you pay for. They can be amazing. However the reality is not all can afford brass and I myself have had to fill out my loco roster with plastic. I needed to sell my brass in favor of other things...like to pay for boys' baseball. There are still some brass cabooses I hope to get sometime and the Overland SD-20 in ICG. John
John,
Just a few thoughts:
First, one simple concept - deminishing return - at what point does the cost increase not justify the quality improvement? In 2002 I purchased a FORD Crown Victoria with the high performance package - like the police drive. It cost $28,000 and delivered 85-90% of the features and performance of a BMW 7 Series, which cost about $85,000.
It was equally if not more reliable, and had a lower cost of ownership - which was the better value? That last 15% of features and performance would have come at an obscene cost.
Second - no offense intended, but I can't even imagine spending money on a hobby like model trains until I was financially secure enough to not be forced to sell them to pay for other family needs/wants, let alone pay $1,000 for a single locomotive.
That concept is still totally foreign to me. I buy model trains with the same kind of money I take my wife out to eat with - money I can be sure that I can otherwise do without.
Maybe I was just raised different?
The idea of having to sell something like a model train to pay a bill would give me such guilt I might never buy another model train for a long time.
Sheldon
thomas81z does anyone else collect a whole run of locos of thier" road "
does anyone else collect a whole run of locos of thier" road "
- Douglas
ATLANTIC CENTRALFirst, one simple concept - deminishing return - at what point does the cost increase not justify the quality improvement? In 2002 I purchased a FORD Crown Victoria with the high performance package - like the police drive. It cost $28,000 and delivered 85-90% of the features and performance of a BMW 7 Series, which cost about $85,000.
.
Uh Oh... I am with you on this one Sheldon. I am a domestic car guy. We buy a new car every couple of years. I have no brand loyalty. We have had a Buick, Chevys, Fords, and a Lincoln.
I do not see enough improvements in the vehicle to justify the cost of a premium import.
However, your comparisson on only performance and reliability is unfair. In flat out performance, American cars will always deliver more for the money. That is the American market. Reliability... The Americans and Japanese are way out in front of the rest of the automotive world. That is what we Americans want, Performance and reliability... and cupholders.
When it comes to something more intangible, "connecting" the driver to the car, that is where the Eupropean premium cars come in. To a buyer that is looking for that quality, the American cars come up lacking, and the European cars seem like a better value because the American models do not even offer what they are looking for.
If you ever have the opportunity, please go to the Porsche Experience in Atlanta. It will really open your eyes about what is different about some of these vehicles. It changed my point of view quite a bit.
It is the same with $1,200.00 new brass models. If they have the features that you MUST have, the price is not unjustified, because nothing else will satisfy you. You get the value for your money because you will not be satisfied with any less of a purchase.
Oh, and for some people it is just a status symbol. I will never understand that.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190I am a domestic car guy. We buy a new car every couple of years.
Kevin,
Every two years??? Wouldn't you take the greater brunt of the loss in the car's value that way?
We've had our Civic (new) since 2008 and it's still going strong with nearly 203K on it. Our plan is to drive it until it drops...or it becomes more of a finanical liability than it's worth. I see that as getting more value from a purchase. Your needs may be different though.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I know all about European cars, I was once a shop foreman in a BMW dealership.......
Personally, I hate sports cars, I hate that feeling of sitting on a boat cushion on the floor with my feet out in front of me.
Today my wife and I drive a FORD FLEX LIMITED with Ecoboost, 360 hp, AWD, paddle shifters, 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, 15 second 1/4 mile, great handling, smooth ride, room for 7, upright seating and more. All for half the price of a BMW 7.
New car every two years? Not me, 5-6 years for the wife's car, my last F150 truck lasted 15 years and 235,000 miles. I plan to get 20 years or 300,000 out of the new F250 that replaced it.
But back to trains, sure if you "must have" that level, and you can afford it, go for it. Not for me......
But then again I like to build models, not just buy and run them........
tstage SeeYou190 I am a domestic car guy. We buy a new car every couple of years. Kevin, Every two years??? Wouldn't you take the greater brunt of the loss in the car's value that way? We've had our Civic (new) since 2008 and it's still going strong with nearly 203K on it. Our plan is to drive it until it drops...or it becomes more of a finanical liability than it's worth. I see that as getting more value from a purchase. Your needs may be different though. Tom
SeeYou190 I am a domestic car guy. We buy a new car every couple of years.
Tom, I agree about getting more value by keeping thrm longer, note my comments above.
And I get the Honda thing, they make great cars. But understand, today most of the offerings from FORD and GM are equal to Honda or Toyota in quality/reliablity and many of them better suit the needs of their owners.
Neither has anything that competes with the FLEX or my F250, those are the kinds of vehicles our lifestyle requires.
FORD currently has one of the lowest warranty problem rates in the industry.
Sheldon--
1. I have 2 children classified as special needs. That translates as "much more expensive", and I would argue that for many of us there is not really any such thing as "financial security". My hope, especially long term, is for the Father above to provide, that what I have managed to save will be "enough". In any case, I have to work for at least 18 more years while continuing to save, and will likely work as long as I can at some kind of part-time job after.
2. The amount of money spent on baseball lessons is probably a lot more than you realize, certainly more than I would have ever anticipated. The one coach working with my son one-on-one just narrowly missed getting a job at the Major League level with the NY Yankees; next year he will be gone and unavailable to us. My older son, if he doesn't make it to pro baseball, will be well qualified to coach, is already proving that he can coach. That is what he wants to do with his life--play or coach those who play. This is his "college education" just sooner.
3. Buy American? Apparently you do not realize that the American parts content of my Toyota and Honda vehicles is actually higher than most "American" car makers. I've compared window stickers. We buy them and drive them for more miles at far less gasoline and total maintenance cost than the typical "American" car buyer is able to do, and then only get rid of them when they are essentially junkyard material. I was once a Ford Mustang fan, even a member of the local Ford club...but the Toyota and Honda vehicles for me personally have been much better.
I did "downsize" my personal train roster to that which I feel I can own without feeling "guilt". My mission is to have far less trains than most people but still have some nice ones. I replaced the brass, and even high end plastic steam, and I'm happy with my new, little fleet of IC/ICG orange and white/orange and grey diesels, mostly non-sound. Trying to embrace a "less is more" philosophy while also funding my son's pursuit of his dream.
John, I have three grown children, and three grown step children I helped raise since they were preteen. They have all had, and still have from time to time, their challenges. We are now helping care for grand children. We do what we have to do........
Buy American? I don't buy those vehicles mainly because they are American companies, I buy them because they better suit my needs and wants. And our service experiance with FORD has been excellent and always improving for the last 20 years.
Our daughter had a 2005 Nissan Sentra, over priced junk compared to the 2008 Focus that went 180,000 trouble free miles for less money.
FORD builds the best truck, I need a REAL truck for what I do. The FLEX is a REAL full sized wagon without being a high entry truck. My wife needs that for her health issues.
ATLANTIC CENTRALTom, I agree about getting more value by keeping thrm longer, note my comments above. And I get the Honda thing, they make great cars. But understand, today most of the offerings from FORD and GM are equal to Honda or Toyota in quality/reliablity and many of them better suit the needs of their owners. Neither has anything that competes with the FLEX or my F250, those are the kinds of vehicles our lifestyle requires. FORD currently has one of the lowest warranty problem rates in the industry. Sheldon
Sheldon,
My point had nothing to do with the type of car driven but with the frequency of turn-in period. Kevin may have a legimate reason to get a new car every two years. In fact - and I didn't even think of this when I responded earlier - he may have 4-5 cars in his household and that equates to a new car every 8-10 years. If you drive like I do (21-22K/yr), that's getting the most from your vehicle.
Again, my query and comment were restrictly focused on the value of buying and keeping a vehicle longer - much like you intend to do with the Ford F250. But...this topic disgresses from the original subject of the OP.
tstage ATLANTIC CENTRAL Tom, I agree about getting more value by keeping thrm longer, note my comments above. And I get the Honda thing, they make great cars. But understand, today most of the offerings from FORD and GM are equal to Honda or Toyota in quality/reliablity and many of them better suit the needs of their owners. Neither has anything that competes with the FLEX or my F250, those are the kinds of vehicles our lifestyle requires. FORD currently has one of the lowest warranty problem rates in the industry. Sheldon Sheldon, My point had nothing to do with the type of car driven but with the frequency of turn-in period. Kevin may have a legimate reason to get a new car every two years. In fact - and I didn't even think of this when I responded earlier - he may have 4-5 cars in his household and that equates to a new car every 8-10 years. If you drive like I do (21-22K/yr), that's getting the most from your vehicle. Again, my query and comment were restrictly focused on the value of buying and keeping a vehicle longer - much like you intend to do with the Ford F250. But...this topic disgresses from the original subject of the OP. Tom
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Tom, I agree about getting more value by keeping thrm longer, note my comments above. And I get the Honda thing, they make great cars. But understand, today most of the offerings from FORD and GM are equal to Honda or Toyota in quality/reliablity and many of them better suit the needs of their owners. Neither has anything that competes with the FLEX or my F250, those are the kinds of vehicles our lifestyle requires. FORD currently has one of the lowest warranty problem rates in the industry. Sheldon
Tom, agreed. I apologize if there is a bit of an automatic response when an Import brand owner talks about vehicle life, so many believe or imply that domestic brands don't hold up as well. That may have been very true in 1988, not today.
We always pay cash, or get zero, or near zero financing, and then keep them as long as is practical. We drive a lot of miles, so 5-6 years can be 100,000 or more miles. My 2015 truck already has 52,000 miles.
But that is likely to slow down in a few years......retirement......
OK, Ok, service experience, I get it.
I learned the hard way to find a good ole' boy mechanic, who can fix nearly any vehicle of any make, and runs his own shop at his house. He is about 1/3 the cost of taking a vehicle to the dealer for service, on just about any service.
He's told me what the studies are saying about oil life, and also transmission life, and so far he's been absolutely right on.
I'm not trying to get 100,000 miles or even 150,000 miles out of a vehicle. I'm trying to get 300,000 miles--and my 60 year old mechanic will tell you that the average Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic is indeed well capable of getting there. He also is of the opinion that most, but surely not all, American make vehicles will just not last that long. Mine did not, period. Tried many of them, Buick too.
Yes, I am driving nearly 20,000 miles a year, mostly highway driving, and I need to be efficient in what I buy and how long it lasts. For me, a Corolla or Civic fits the bill. My inlaws only buy Subaru because they want an affordable suv type vehicle with all wheel drive in the winter...
I may actually buy some Ford stock because they are on the leading edge of the next vehicle revolution, along with Volvo, and I have been advised it's a very good stock purchase. But based on past disappointments, specifically Mustang and Thunderbird, I cannot bring myself to drive one.
BMW--my coworker drove one. It's the only car that totals itself while you drive it. That means at 5 years, one year after the warranty is up, it requires more maintenance in dollars than what the vehicle is still worth, period. He said he'd never own another. He is an auto enthusiast.
John, how long ago were these Mustang, Thunderbird experiances? The fact that you are refering to a Thunderbird suggested they are too long ago to be relevant.
All my cars are serviced at the dealer because they are bought new, and it is the best way to protect your warranty position.
That 2000 F150 that I mentioned that lasted me 15 years and 230,000 miles, well it is still on the road, now approaching 300,000 miles. I sold it to a friend.
But, when that truck was 4 years old, and had 67,000 miles, it did have a major problem. It blew the transmission. BUT, I had all the service done at the dealer, including the recommended 50,000 mile trans service. Guess what my new transmission cost me? ZERO DOLLARS, FORD covered it, even though the factory warranty was 3/36000, and I don't buy extended warranties. And that transmission has not been worked on since.
Today's cars are too complex to expect one person, or independent shop to keep current on every brand. As someone who was a BMW shop foreman, and who went to school with the techs, I think I have some experiance here.
Nearly all of todays engines will last 300,000 miles if cared for. But again, I have no use for small, low to the ground cars, mini vans, or compact SUV's.
Actually, we have only replaced my wife's car because the last two got totaled in accidents. And in both cases, full size FORDS saved my families lives, speaking of personal adversities......
Our 2012 FLEX saved my wife and grandchildren in a head on crash in Oct 2015, so I bought another one nearly just like it as fast as I could.
This is a car thread now?
(I'm cheap. Had a Saturn Wagon for 12 years, 112K miles. The xD that replaced it will be 10 in April.)
LensCapOnThis is a car thread now?
Sounds like it.
My 2005 Toyota Highlander has 276,000 miles on it and still going strong. I'm planning on keeping it until I can buy a self driving car for my old age.
Paul
[:]
ATLANTIC CENTRALFORD FLEX LIMITED
Russell
csxns [:] ATLANTIC CENTRAL FORD FLEX LIMITED See them all of the time on the side of the road with their hood's up
ATLANTIC CENTRAL FORD FLEX LIMITED
See them all of the time on the side of the road with their hood's up
That's funny......
Never seen one broke down.
But with enough miles, or a neglected battery, anything can leave you stranded, even a Honda or a FORD.
The FORD FLEX is best car I have owned since my Checker Marathons in the 70's.
LensCapOn This is a car thread now? (I'm cheap. Had a Saturn Wagon for 12 years, 112K miles. The xD that replaced it will be 10 in April.)
12 years, 112,000 miles? don't get out much I see.
Bought Civic also because best crash worthiness in its class. Also saw photos of coworker's wife's Civic, which saved her life in a head-on crash. The car totaled itself but absorbed the energy of the impact, just as designed to do. The opposing VW sedan, not so lucky...driver was life-flighted (car looked really bad--he was the one who caused the accident). Coworker's wife walked away from the crash with a concussion and is ok.
PRR8259 Sheldon-- Bought Civic also because best crash worthiness in its class. Also saw photos of coworker's wife's Civic, which saved her life in a head-on crash. The car totaled itself but absorbed the energy of the impact, just as designed to do. The opposing VW sedan, not so lucky...driver was life-flighted (car looked really bad--he was the one who caused the accident). Coworker's wife walked away from the crash with a concussion and is ok. John
John, in 2012 a girl lost control on a wet entrance ramp and I hit her head on as she spun around on an expressway. I was driving a 2008 FORD TAURUS, the same platform as the FLEX, both VOLVO based designs.
The car was totaled, but we were fine. All four doors still opened and closed like nothing had happened.
We replaced it with a 2012 FLEX LIMITED w/Ecoboost.
As noted before, Oct 2015, the wife and grand kids were in a head on, cause never determined. FLEX was hit by two oncoming vehicles. Again the FLEX was totaled, but the passenger compartment was completely intact.
We bought a 2015 FLEX with the same equipment as fast as we could - we love it.
The FLEX has not really changed since it was introduced in 2009. It is becoming the "Checker" of the 21st Century. Interestingly its vital demensions are almost identical to the Checker Marathon. Good practical design is hard to improve on.....
And with the twin turbo Ecoboost 3.5 liter V6, at 360 HP, 360 lb/ft torque, full time all wheel drive, it is more than fun to drive - very fast, and gets 20 mpg plus. Not bad for a 4800 lb, 7 passenger station wagon.
Smooth ride from the long 118" wheelbase, upright comfortable seating, and all the luxury features you could want, 0-60 is 5.5 seconds. Leaves lots of "sporty" cars and SUV's in the dust.
The Civic is a good car, I have a lot of respect for Honda. I just personally don't like cars that small or low to the ground.
My wife has Rheumatiod Arthritis and entry and exit from cars low to the ground is hard for her, as is climbing up in an Explorer or bigger SUV.
The FLEX has chair height seating like a Checker, or a '57 Chevy, very easy entry and exit, big wide square doors.
Function is more important than style..........but I like the looks of the FLEX.....
But what do I know, I was rebulding engines and restoring cars at age 17.......
Can we get back to the original discussion at hand??? And, just in case you've forgotten what it was, here's the OP's original query:
Thanks,
I can't really collect the whole roster of even just one model for the railroads I'm interested in, as they are too large.
I have four new Intermountain IC/ICG GP10's, in three different paint/lettering schemes (skipped the all orange scheme). IC/ICG had about 400 GP10's, with additional hundreds of GP8's and GP11's.
In the past, I tended to buy engines in threes, often because I would run three units together in plain DC, or in steam just simply because I liked certain engines.
Some love their Bachmann's, and the EM-1 is every bit a terrific value...but there actually are nicer engines out there, and nicer than the hybrids, too. The real question is which one would one rather own: a highly detailed model, well made, for whom parts are not available ever so you better handle it with care, or a plastic model, readily available, that if you drop it, can conceivably be thrown away and replaced without too much heartburn.
tstage Can we get back to the original discussion at hand??? And, just in case you've forgotten what it was, here's the OP's original query: does anyone else collect a whole run of locos of thier" road " Thanks, Tom
Well, as explained above, as a freelance modeler I get to decide how many that would be. But no, I have no interest is such a goal.
Just the opposite in fact. The ATLANTIC CENTRAL locos are numbered to suggest a much larger fleet than what you see on my layout. The layout only represents one division point on a large Class 1 system.
The B&O had 100 Q-3 Mikados, 138 Q-4 Mikados, and about 700 Mikados total in all classes..........now that would be a collection........
I guess I could buy 30 Spectrum B&O EM-1's and have all of them..........
Or 60 C&O Allegheny's............no, one is enough, ok maybe two.
See, even most of the other "rare" giants existed in greater numbers than the Big Boy........
PRR8259 I can't really collect the whole roster of even just one model for the railroads I'm interested in, as they are too large. I have four new Intermountain IC/ICG GP10's, in three different paint/lettering schemes (skipped the all orange scheme). IC/ICG had about 400 GP10's, with additional hundreds of GP8's and GP11's. In the past, I tended to buy engines in threes, often because I would run three units together in plain DC, or in steam just simply because I liked certain engines. Some love their Bachmann's, and the EM-1 is every bit a terrific value...but there actually are nicer engines out there, and nicer than the hybrids, too. The real question is which one would one rather own: a highly detailed model, well made, for whom parts are not available ever so you better handle it with care, or a plastic model, readily available, that if you drop it, can conceivably be thrown away and replaced without too much heartburn. John
John, the real question remains - what are one's modeling goals?
To obsess over just a few "perfect" pieces of motive power and equipment, or build and operate something representive of a working transportation system?
Nothing wrong with either goal, but one product lends itself one way, the other leans the other way - unless of course you have unlimited resources......
I don't need perfection in detail, I have explained many times why I feel that is pointless anyway. I need them to run well and be "representative" of their prototypes.
tstageKevin, Every two years??? Wouldn't you take the greater brunt of the loss in the car's value that way?
Moderator Tom: Sorry to pop back of topic, but you were the one that asked this question, so I will answer.
We have bought a new car every couple of years since 2001 because of the girls growing up and leaving home. When they each graduated from high school we tried to give them a good start in the world, which included giving them the family car, which would be a couple of years old at that time. In the middle of all this, in 2007, Ford had an excellent lease deal on the Lincoln MKZ and we got an "extra" car for me to use since my F150 had over 200,000 miles on it.
When you are giving the car away anyway, the way it holds or loses value in two years becomes a non-issue.
Our last daughter moved out three years ago, and my wife has stopped working, so the current new car could very well be our last.
I am thinking of collecting all of the diesel locomotives ever rostered by the GORRE & DAPHETID, that should not take too long.
Got it, Kevin - Thanks. Makes sense. Okay, back to topic...
M636C Well, I have the Proto 1000 model of ATSF Alco No 50, a since they only had one, that is the whole class... Peter
Well, I have the Proto 1000 model of ATSF Alco No 50, a since they only had one, that is the whole class...
Peter
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
PRR, BP20 (long shark)
This is another loco that I do not think will ever be produced in plastic,...so I decide to try and kitbash one of these utilizing a DL109 chassis
I determined that the 3 axle truck frames on the DL109 model chassis were the same as on the BP20, and that the nose of that chassis would fit up into the plastic shell of a normal PRR Shark without a lot of excess trimming (but some would be required). I also determined that the wheel base of the BP20 was a little longer than the DL109. At the model size it works out to be a little less than 1/2 inches additional length needed. This nice robust cast metal frame of the stock DL109 needed to be extended a little less than 1/2 inch. I've found what I think to be the perfect solution,....a 1/2 inch piece of square steel tubing at Home Depot. Two pieces of 'square tube' inserted between the two sections, either side of the cut frame, should act nice and firmly to rejoin the frame at that slightly longer length. At first I was worried about the loss of a certain dimension from just the width of the saw blade used to cut the frame in half. But now that I see the dimension needed in the final frame as a bit less than 1/2 inch, I believe things will work out using a normal hack-saw blade that will remove some extra metal for the full 1/2 spacer tube to fill and make a frame slight less than 1/2 inch longer. I had to do some filing (quite a bit actually) on the cast metal frame to get reliefs I need to fit the 'Model Power' Shark shells to fit. So I've done that filing, and put together a 'temporary' demonstration BP20 shell to fit it. Here are some pics. I have not cut the frame and extended it yet, but I did make the 'drive shaft extension' I would need.
railandsail P
P
If any of you NYC people would like to collect H-5 Mikados, please start getting after the manufacturers. There were more H-5s than Niagaras, Hudsons, or Mohawks. And the USRA light mike mechanism could be used without much of a compromise.