RR_Mel I don’t “collect” but I have a sack full of SP Cab Forwards (16), all Rivarossi. The Cab Forward is my favorite locomotive followed closely by the AC-9. I enjoy restoring the clunkers sold on eBay to better than new condition. A real Clunker is bait for a kitbashed AC-9. Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951 My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
All right, John, Sheldon, go to your corners. If you two want to argue about locomotives, start a thread for that. That's not the topic of this thread.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
railandsailThat is the DL109, a loco I was surprised to find modeled in plastic
.
When I started in N scale in the early 1980s, Con-Cor offered a DL-109, and I bought one because it was an easy to get and good running model.
Later, I found out how unusual it was.
My N scale fleet in High School included a DL-109, RSD-15, and some weird FM thing. Why were all the strange locmotives made in N scale plastic so early? There was not even a decent GP-9 offered back then!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
PRR8259 I do not know B&O except those articulateds ran through dad's hometown. I have seen but cant find the video to buy it.
I do not know B&O except those articulateds ran through dad's hometown. I have seen but cant find the video to buy it.
But John, is it not you who is always commenting on the accuracy of this loco or that loco?
Fact is, an expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less.......
The B&O EL-1, EL-2, EL-3 and EL-5 were all built as 2-8-8-0 compounds.
Most EL-3 and EL-5 locos were rebuilt as simple expansion starting in 1927.
The Seaboard Air Line took delivery of 16 compound 2-8-8-2's from ALCO in 1918, and in 1920 sold all 16 to the B&O. These were not USRA locos, but were similar in size and features to the USRA 2-8-8-2, but with 63" drivers.
By 1922 the B&O had converted all 16 to simple expansion 2-8-8-0's, class EL-6.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s7303ggC.jpg
This next photo shows how the original Seaboard locos had a trailing truck exactly like the USRA locos.......before the B&O removed them and changed the front cylinders.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alcomike/6555262699/
But what do I know.......
Sheldon
John,
As someone who worked in the retail side of the industry, I am always tolerant of how others enjoy the hobby - but that does not require me to be interested in how others enjoy the hobby.
There is brass in between the two extreems you described above.............lots of it.......
Say what you will, your comment about removing the trailing truck was a straw man shot at me, again because I never suggested it would be an acceptable way to model other 2-8-8-0's.
My "philosophy" of this hobby only applies to me, but you sure have spent a lot of time trying to sell or justify your philososphy of the hobby over the years.
I have 140 good running, good looking locos that only cost me $120 each on average because:
I have modeling/mechanical skills
I always knew what I wanted/never changed my mind and sold stuff off (at a loss or a profit)
I am a patient shopper with good knowledge of the industry
I am more than happy to agree to disagree, but you are constantly defending or justifing your position, and all your personal business you have shared on here.
You may not be an elitist, but it sure sounds like you "value" that view of the hobby - I was taught not to have champagne taste on a beer pocketbook - but in fact I don't care for either........
I know I am outside the current mainstream of this hobby, in a number of ways.
I am neither one extreme or another, my ideas on the hobby are a unique collection of different points of view.
If you ask about track radius, turnout size, or train length, or layout size - I sound like an elitist.........bigger is better.
If you ask about the acceptablity of "close enough" models, I am rather open minded and still very happy with the portion of my fleet that is Athearn Blue Box or its equal - even though I have a fair share of the latest high detail rolling stock and have kit built and scratch built contest level models.
BUT, passenger cars, even freelanced generic ones, must be close coupled with working, touching diaphragms........
If you ask about layout theme/design theory, I have no interest in simulating actual locations, even if I was not freelance or protolance modeling.
I love both prototype operation AND display running. That puts me at odds with everybody........point to point layouts are boring......and so are ones with no operational plan.
Elitist view - the best layout theory is to model one location and have the trains enter/exit that stage from thru staging - this allows only modeling each important element one time. One yard, passenger terminal, engine terminal, etc, etc, and allows for high levels of action.
Add in a little rolling scenery as the trains approach this one town/city/division point and you have the perfect model layout - in my view. Add in some hidden cutoffs for lots of display action and you have the best of both worlds........
When it comes to control and sound, I look like a Luddite at first with my lack of interest in DCC and sound - until you find out I use a DC control system way more complex than DCC to provide intergrated advanced cab control, turnout control and CTC........
And again, I'm not interested in, nor do I require, a "buy it and drive it" version of the hobby - at any price. If I did I would have switched to Lionel or Marklin decades ago.........
Agreed - we disagree
PS - do you know what the real difference between us is? I see the hobby, and the layout, as a "whole", from the "big picture" view. You see the trains, particularly the locos first, and all the rest is just fill in behind them. Maybe what you do should be called "locomotive modeling"?
Sheldon--
I deliberately choose my words about brass very carefully to exclude those older or vintage models that may have serious issues like bad gears or known electical problems. You read what I say as though I am some kind of elitist; I am simply trying to distinguish between models that generally speaking perform well right out of the box (ie nearly idiot proof) from older ones that likely require considerable work and effort to get to run. My one friend often spent 40 hours fixing just one steamer, but then they were amazing when he was done.
I am not much personally for freelance modeling nor do I criticize those who are. All I said was removing a trailing truck to make a 2-8-8-0 would not satisfy some of us, and I think those who did in real life were actually in a small minority. I know most UP 2-8-8-0 engines always were that way, the vast majority of 80. I do not know B&O except those articulateds ran through dad's hometown. I have seen but cant find the video to buy it.
Also if I or anybody else chooses to like several widely differing roads or classes of motive power, so what?
We are two very different people from different eras with divergent philosophies. Time for both of us to agree to disagree?
John
I get the the whole idea of locos not made in plastic and choosing brass as the only way to get close/correct models for many prototypes - BUT - not every piece of excellent quality brass is this recent production/late model, high priced stuff you talk about all the time.
2-8-8-0, I would never suggest passing off my USRA 2-8-8-2 with the trailing truck removed as some "other prototype" 2-8-8-0. None of mine are lettered B&O?
BUT AGAIN, those locos are for my FREELANCED/PROTOLANCED ATLANTIC CENTRAL - note the lettering on the tender.....
I know, FREELANCING is now a dirty word, but since my self esteem is not invested in the opinion of the "hobby elite", I will soldier on with what is fun to me.
And since the B&O did remove trailing trucks from 2-8-8-2's, that gives my freelancing prototype credibility.
All these other protoypes you talk about, I know about many of them, some I don't know anything about, but in any case I'm not interested, at least not in buying. I only model three prototype roads, B&O, C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND. It is of NO IMPORTANCE to me what is available for the UP, WP, PRR, etc.
I don't collect model trains, I don't model those other railroads. And I don't speculate in model trains, I found Real Estate to be much more profitable......
But I am interested in creating an operational and visually plauseable model railroad of some size and complexity - 1,000 sq ft layout room, 600' of mainline, staging for 30 trains, CTC and signals, operations for a crew of 6-8 people, etc, etc.
And when I retire it may get bigger.........
My goals are different/more involved than just rail faning the flavor the week around a loop of track - although I like good display running too, and the layout is designed to provide that as well - four mainline display trains that can be swaped out for others in staging, while an operator works a yard or industries for fun.
I can't meet all these goals and spend $1200 on a locomotive, locomotives that would not really further the goals in any measurable way.
It takes most of the 140 powered units I own to protect the schedules for the 30 trains on the Piedmont division of the ATLANTIC CENTRAL. 140 locos times even $600 is likely equal to more than half of the money I have spent on model trains in my whole 50 years in the hobby. But then again I have never sold off my stuff and started over.....
The dollar cost average price of my fleet is about $120 - and they all run great and look great - even if I did have to upgrade, tune up, detail, assemble, or kit bash some or all to some degree or another. The most I have ever spent on a loco is $325 - or, if you count multi unit diesels as one loco, about $600 for a four unit lashup.
I'm really not interested in the "buy it and drive it" version of the hobby.
I search for NOS undecorated Proto2000 diesels with out DCC, I learned how to fix the minor short comings of EVERY brand of plastic steamer (they ALL have a few minor short comings), my roster is based on the layout theme only, so my needs are driven by the operational features I wish to simulate, not on a museum selection of famous locos.
It is mostly boring stuff like Mikados, 2-8-0's, 4-6-2's, Heavy Mountains.....and some bigger power. But all of it, be it ATLANTIC CENTRAL, or the three prototype interchange roads, is believable for my intended time and locale.
I have two USRA brass Pacifics, because until recently there were no plastic ones worth considering. But they have been kit bashed to the "family" standards of the ATLANTIC CENTRAL - guess there is no selling them off for emergency cash.......
But I don't have more than about $175 in either of them anyway......I spend that much taking the wife out eat in a week.
Then there is my "could have been" modeling. My fleet of heavy modern Mikados, built from Bachmann 2-8-4's.
FACT - the GN O-8 Mikes were heavier than the LIMA Berkshires
FACT - the GN and the B&O experimented with 70" driver Mikes
FACT - the DT&I 800 class Mikes were just baby Berkshires with 63" drivers
So LIMA could have built this (show here before it went to the paint shop):
I built 5 of these in three sub classes for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL - total investment about $800 with some extra Bachmann Vandy tenders for one sub class, the PSC trailing trucks, and a few other items.
I know, not your kind of "modeling". But they are well detailed, plausable, pull well, run well and look interesting.
The ATLANTIC CENTRAL has nine Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountains (and there two C&O versions on the property as well) I don't have $1200 in the whole fleet of Mountains - also great runners and lookers.
In my view, $1200 model train locos are for those who can spend $1200 like I spend $50 on a meal out with the wife - no matter how it may sound, that is not me.
Wow. "To obsess over just a few perfect pieces of equipment"...Really?? Just a bit strong. Sure I want even my plastic diesels to fit together correctly, and that is really all I want, since things are now glued and not at all "adjustable" to fix once one buys. (See other topic about removing handrails). Even in plastic I reject some.
However you are completely missing the boat on how some of us play or played with ho brass toys. First if you don't like, don't buy. Once bought they are toys to be played with and used on the layout, which I most certainly did.
The stainless steel drivers of recent brass stuff never show wear. You can put easily 50 or a 100 hours on them and they will still look mint brand new. I know because I have done it on several. They just get broken in and run much better than out of the box. When I sold them I sold them as used and mint and got perfect feedback.
One can get a nice plastic EM-1, but there is nothing remotely close to a true B&O EL3 or EL5 2-8-8-0 or the UP 2-8-8-0 in plastic, and removing a trailing truck from a USRA version just will not cut it for those who know the prototype well. Arguably the most beautiful challenger 4-6-6-4 ever is the rarely ever seen or photographed Western Pacific version, and nothing in plastic is remotely close. I bet even the WP decals are hard to find now, too.
So for some even modifying a plastic USRA whatever would just never be acceptable because they are so far off, and why bother when you can get the right model if you really want it?? Wanting the right model is not necessarily obsessing over it at all.
ALL I want is decent build quality and I simply do without those models or toys that I dont feel measure up regardless of who made it.
Perhaps someday I will have the chance to own a WP challenger once again. In the meantime I will enjoy my affordable little ICG diesel fleet.
If any of you NYC people would like to collect H-5 Mikados, please start getting after the manufacturers. There were more H-5s than Niagaras, Hudsons, or Mohawks. And the USRA light mike mechanism could be used without much of a compromise.
railandsail P
P
PRR, BP20 (long shark)
This is another loco that I do not think will ever be produced in plastic,...so I decide to try and kitbash one of these utilizing a DL109 chassis
I determined that the 3 axle truck frames on the DL109 model chassis were the same as on the BP20, and that the nose of that chassis would fit up into the plastic shell of a normal PRR Shark without a lot of excess trimming (but some would be required). I also determined that the wheel base of the BP20 was a little longer than the DL109. At the model size it works out to be a little less than 1/2 inches additional length needed. This nice robust cast metal frame of the stock DL109 needed to be extended a little less than 1/2 inch. I've found what I think to be the perfect solution,....a 1/2 inch piece of square steel tubing at Home Depot. Two pieces of 'square tube' inserted between the two sections, either side of the cut frame, should act nice and firmly to rejoin the frame at that slightly longer length. At first I was worried about the loss of a certain dimension from just the width of the saw blade used to cut the frame in half. But now that I see the dimension needed in the final frame as a bit less than 1/2 inch, I believe things will work out using a normal hack-saw blade that will remove some extra metal for the full 1/2 spacer tube to fill and make a frame slight less than 1/2 inch longer. I had to do some filing (quite a bit actually) on the cast metal frame to get reliefs I need to fit the 'Model Power' Shark shells to fit. So I've done that filing, and put together a 'temporary' demonstration BP20 shell to fit it. Here are some pics. I have not cut the frame and extended it yet, but I did make the 'drive shaft extension' I would need.
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
M636C Well, I have the Proto 1000 model of ATSF Alco No 50, a since they only had one, that is the whole class... Peter
Well, I have the Proto 1000 model of ATSF Alco No 50, a since they only had one, that is the whole class...
Peter
Got it, Kevin - Thanks. Makes sense. Okay, back to topic...
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstageKevin, Every two years??? Wouldn't you take the greater brunt of the loss in the car's value that way?
Moderator Tom: Sorry to pop back of topic, but you were the one that asked this question, so I will answer.
We have bought a new car every couple of years since 2001 because of the girls growing up and leaving home. When they each graduated from high school we tried to give them a good start in the world, which included giving them the family car, which would be a couple of years old at that time. In the middle of all this, in 2007, Ford had an excellent lease deal on the Lincoln MKZ and we got an "extra" car for me to use since my F150 had over 200,000 miles on it.
When you are giving the car away anyway, the way it holds or loses value in two years becomes a non-issue.
Our last daughter moved out three years ago, and my wife has stopped working, so the current new car could very well be our last.
I am thinking of collecting all of the diesel locomotives ever rostered by the GORRE & DAPHETID, that should not take too long.
PRR8259 I can't really collect the whole roster of even just one model for the railroads I'm interested in, as they are too large. I have four new Intermountain IC/ICG GP10's, in three different paint/lettering schemes (skipped the all orange scheme). IC/ICG had about 400 GP10's, with additional hundreds of GP8's and GP11's. In the past, I tended to buy engines in threes, often because I would run three units together in plain DC, or in steam just simply because I liked certain engines. Some love their Bachmann's, and the EM-1 is every bit a terrific value...but there actually are nicer engines out there, and nicer than the hybrids, too. The real question is which one would one rather own: a highly detailed model, well made, for whom parts are not available ever so you better handle it with care, or a plastic model, readily available, that if you drop it, can conceivably be thrown away and replaced without too much heartburn. John
I can't really collect the whole roster of even just one model for the railroads I'm interested in, as they are too large.
I have four new Intermountain IC/ICG GP10's, in three different paint/lettering schemes (skipped the all orange scheme). IC/ICG had about 400 GP10's, with additional hundreds of GP8's and GP11's.
In the past, I tended to buy engines in threes, often because I would run three units together in plain DC, or in steam just simply because I liked certain engines.
Some love their Bachmann's, and the EM-1 is every bit a terrific value...but there actually are nicer engines out there, and nicer than the hybrids, too. The real question is which one would one rather own: a highly detailed model, well made, for whom parts are not available ever so you better handle it with care, or a plastic model, readily available, that if you drop it, can conceivably be thrown away and replaced without too much heartburn.
John, the real question remains - what are one's modeling goals?
To obsess over just a few "perfect" pieces of motive power and equipment, or build and operate something representive of a working transportation system?
Nothing wrong with either goal, but one product lends itself one way, the other leans the other way - unless of course you have unlimited resources......
I don't need perfection in detail, I have explained many times why I feel that is pointless anyway. I need them to run well and be "representative" of their prototypes.
tstage Can we get back to the original discussion at hand??? And, just in case you've forgotten what it was, here's the OP's original query: does anyone else collect a whole run of locos of thier" road " Thanks, Tom
Can we get back to the original discussion at hand??? And, just in case you've forgotten what it was, here's the OP's original query:
does anyone else collect a whole run of locos of thier" road "
Thanks,
Tom
Well, as explained above, as a freelance modeler I get to decide how many that would be. But no, I have no interest is such a goal.
Just the opposite in fact. The ATLANTIC CENTRAL locos are numbered to suggest a much larger fleet than what you see on my layout. The layout only represents one division point on a large Class 1 system.
The B&O had 100 Q-3 Mikados, 138 Q-4 Mikados, and about 700 Mikados total in all classes..........now that would be a collection........
I guess I could buy 30 Spectrum B&O EM-1's and have all of them..........
Or 60 C&O Allegheny's............no, one is enough, ok maybe two.
See, even most of the other "rare" giants existed in greater numbers than the Big Boy........
PRR8259 Sheldon-- Bought Civic also because best crash worthiness in its class. Also saw photos of coworker's wife's Civic, which saved her life in a head-on crash. The car totaled itself but absorbed the energy of the impact, just as designed to do. The opposing VW sedan, not so lucky...driver was life-flighted (car looked really bad--he was the one who caused the accident). Coworker's wife walked away from the crash with a concussion and is ok. John
Bought Civic also because best crash worthiness in its class. Also saw photos of coworker's wife's Civic, which saved her life in a head-on crash. The car totaled itself but absorbed the energy of the impact, just as designed to do. The opposing VW sedan, not so lucky...driver was life-flighted (car looked really bad--he was the one who caused the accident). Coworker's wife walked away from the crash with a concussion and is ok.
John, in 2012 a girl lost control on a wet entrance ramp and I hit her head on as she spun around on an expressway. I was driving a 2008 FORD TAURUS, the same platform as the FLEX, both VOLVO based designs.
The car was totaled, but we were fine. All four doors still opened and closed like nothing had happened.
We replaced it with a 2012 FLEX LIMITED w/Ecoboost.
As noted before, Oct 2015, the wife and grand kids were in a head on, cause never determined. FLEX was hit by two oncoming vehicles. Again the FLEX was totaled, but the passenger compartment was completely intact.
We bought a 2015 FLEX with the same equipment as fast as we could - we love it.
The FLEX has not really changed since it was introduced in 2009. It is becoming the "Checker" of the 21st Century. Interestingly its vital demensions are almost identical to the Checker Marathon. Good practical design is hard to improve on.....
And with the twin turbo Ecoboost 3.5 liter V6, at 360 HP, 360 lb/ft torque, full time all wheel drive, it is more than fun to drive - very fast, and gets 20 mpg plus. Not bad for a 4800 lb, 7 passenger station wagon.
Smooth ride from the long 118" wheelbase, upright comfortable seating, and all the luxury features you could want, 0-60 is 5.5 seconds. Leaves lots of "sporty" cars and SUV's in the dust.
The Civic is a good car, I have a lot of respect for Honda. I just personally don't like cars that small or low to the ground.
My wife has Rheumatiod Arthritis and entry and exit from cars low to the ground is hard for her, as is climbing up in an Explorer or bigger SUV.
The FLEX has chair height seating like a Checker, or a '57 Chevy, very easy entry and exit, big wide square doors.
Function is more important than style..........but I like the looks of the FLEX.....
But what do I know, I was rebulding engines and restoring cars at age 17.......
LensCapOn This is a car thread now? (I'm cheap. Had a Saturn Wagon for 12 years, 112K miles. The xD that replaced it will be 10 in April.)
This is a car thread now?
(I'm cheap. Had a Saturn Wagon for 12 years, 112K miles. The xD that replaced it will be 10 in April.)
12 years, 112,000 miles? don't get out much I see.
csxns [:] ATLANTIC CENTRAL FORD FLEX LIMITED See them all of the time on the side of the road with their hood's up
[:]
ATLANTIC CENTRAL FORD FLEX LIMITED
See them all of the time on the side of the road with their hood's up
That's funny......
Never seen one broke down.
But with enough miles, or a neglected battery, anything can leave you stranded, even a Honda or a FORD.
The FORD FLEX is best car I have owned since my Checker Marathons in the 70's.
ATLANTIC CENTRALFORD FLEX LIMITED
Russell
LensCapOnThis is a car thread now?
Sounds like it.
My 2005 Toyota Highlander has 276,000 miles on it and still going strong. I'm planning on keeping it until I can buy a self driving car for my old age.
Paul
John, how long ago were these Mustang, Thunderbird experiances? The fact that you are refering to a Thunderbird suggested they are too long ago to be relevant.
All my cars are serviced at the dealer because they are bought new, and it is the best way to protect your warranty position.
That 2000 F150 that I mentioned that lasted me 15 years and 230,000 miles, well it is still on the road, now approaching 300,000 miles. I sold it to a friend.
But, when that truck was 4 years old, and had 67,000 miles, it did have a major problem. It blew the transmission. BUT, I had all the service done at the dealer, including the recommended 50,000 mile trans service. Guess what my new transmission cost me? ZERO DOLLARS, FORD covered it, even though the factory warranty was 3/36000, and I don't buy extended warranties. And that transmission has not been worked on since.
Today's cars are too complex to expect one person, or independent shop to keep current on every brand. As someone who was a BMW shop foreman, and who went to school with the techs, I think I have some experiance here.
Nearly all of todays engines will last 300,000 miles if cared for. But again, I have no use for small, low to the ground cars, mini vans, or compact SUV's.
Actually, we have only replaced my wife's car because the last two got totaled in accidents. And in both cases, full size FORDS saved my families lives, speaking of personal adversities......
Our 2012 FLEX saved my wife and grandchildren in a head on crash in Oct 2015, so I bought another one nearly just like it as fast as I could.
OK, Ok, service experience, I get it.
I learned the hard way to find a good ole' boy mechanic, who can fix nearly any vehicle of any make, and runs his own shop at his house. He is about 1/3 the cost of taking a vehicle to the dealer for service, on just about any service.
He's told me what the studies are saying about oil life, and also transmission life, and so far he's been absolutely right on.
I'm not trying to get 100,000 miles or even 150,000 miles out of a vehicle. I'm trying to get 300,000 miles--and my 60 year old mechanic will tell you that the average Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic is indeed well capable of getting there. He also is of the opinion that most, but surely not all, American make vehicles will just not last that long. Mine did not, period. Tried many of them, Buick too.
Yes, I am driving nearly 20,000 miles a year, mostly highway driving, and I need to be efficient in what I buy and how long it lasts. For me, a Corolla or Civic fits the bill. My inlaws only buy Subaru because they want an affordable suv type vehicle with all wheel drive in the winter...
I may actually buy some Ford stock because they are on the leading edge of the next vehicle revolution, along with Volvo, and I have been advised it's a very good stock purchase. But based on past disappointments, specifically Mustang and Thunderbird, I cannot bring myself to drive one.
BMW--my coworker drove one. It's the only car that totals itself while you drive it. That means at 5 years, one year after the warranty is up, it requires more maintenance in dollars than what the vehicle is still worth, period. He said he'd never own another. He is an auto enthusiast.
tstage ATLANTIC CENTRAL Tom, I agree about getting more value by keeping thrm longer, note my comments above. And I get the Honda thing, they make great cars. But understand, today most of the offerings from FORD and GM are equal to Honda or Toyota in quality/reliablity and many of them better suit the needs of their owners. Neither has anything that competes with the FLEX or my F250, those are the kinds of vehicles our lifestyle requires. FORD currently has one of the lowest warranty problem rates in the industry. Sheldon Sheldon, My point had nothing to do with the type of car driven but with the frequency of turn-in period. Kevin may have a legimate reason to get a new car every two years. In fact - and I didn't even think of this when I responded earlier - he may have 4-5 cars in his household and that equates to a new car every 8-10 years. If you drive like I do (21-22K/yr), that's getting the most from your vehicle. Again, my query and comment were restrictly focused on the value of buying and keeping a vehicle longer - much like you intend to do with the Ford F250. But...this topic disgresses from the original subject of the OP. Tom
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Tom, I agree about getting more value by keeping thrm longer, note my comments above. And I get the Honda thing, they make great cars. But understand, today most of the offerings from FORD and GM are equal to Honda or Toyota in quality/reliablity and many of them better suit the needs of their owners. Neither has anything that competes with the FLEX or my F250, those are the kinds of vehicles our lifestyle requires. FORD currently has one of the lowest warranty problem rates in the industry. Sheldon
And I get the Honda thing, they make great cars. But understand, today most of the offerings from FORD and GM are equal to Honda or Toyota in quality/reliablity and many of them better suit the needs of their owners.
Neither has anything that competes with the FLEX or my F250, those are the kinds of vehicles our lifestyle requires.
FORD currently has one of the lowest warranty problem rates in the industry.
Sheldon,
My point had nothing to do with the type of car driven but with the frequency of turn-in period. Kevin may have a legimate reason to get a new car every two years. In fact - and I didn't even think of this when I responded earlier - he may have 4-5 cars in his household and that equates to a new car every 8-10 years. If you drive like I do (21-22K/yr), that's getting the most from your vehicle.
Again, my query and comment were restrictly focused on the value of buying and keeping a vehicle longer - much like you intend to do with the Ford F250. But...this topic disgresses from the original subject of the OP.
Tom, agreed. I apologize if there is a bit of an automatic response when an Import brand owner talks about vehicle life, so many believe or imply that domestic brands don't hold up as well. That may have been very true in 1988, not today.
We always pay cash, or get zero, or near zero financing, and then keep them as long as is practical. We drive a lot of miles, so 5-6 years can be 100,000 or more miles. My 2015 truck already has 52,000 miles.
But that is likely to slow down in a few years......retirement......
ATLANTIC CENTRALTom, I agree about getting more value by keeping thrm longer, note my comments above. And I get the Honda thing, they make great cars. But understand, today most of the offerings from FORD and GM are equal to Honda or Toyota in quality/reliablity and many of them better suit the needs of their owners. Neither has anything that competes with the FLEX or my F250, those are the kinds of vehicles our lifestyle requires. FORD currently has one of the lowest warranty problem rates in the industry. Sheldon