A friend recently achieved his Master Model Railroader (MMR). It took him about 20 or more years. I'm glad for him--he deserves it. He put in the work and earned it. But out of curiosity, I wonder: How important is the MMR to modellers today? How many are pursuing it or intend to? Is it still relevant and important today?
John Longhurst, Winnipeg
John, The hobby is full of Master Model Railroaders that never get recognized.
To my mind a Master Model Railroader is one that has a great looking layout with trouble free and derailment free operation. He/she will be knowledgeable in the hobby and willing to share that knowledge.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I do not want to start a flame war in here, so please be civil with you responses.
.
The MMR thing is not good for the hobby. When I explained what the "MMR" meant after someone's name to friends of mine, well, they just about laughed themselves into hernias. And these guys were wargamers, grown men who get drunk play with metal army men on Friday nights!
I know of no other hobby that bestows a "title" on thier most worthy participants. Wargamers don't. Plastic scale modelers don't. R/C pilots don't. At least not that anyone has ever told me about.
I have also visited home layouts of four MMRs. These were not the four best layouts I have ever seen. Not even in the top ten. There was an MMR that lived in Fort Myers Shores in the 1990s whoses home layout was three ovals of track around the garage walls, two standard and one narrow gauge, and an engine facility. What a master!
When newcomers hear about the MMR thing, the most comon reaction is "You have got to be kidding me."
Why is it so hard for so many of us to admit we are just having a ton of fun with our hobby? I am. The time for this achievement program has gone.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I have been a member of the NMRA since 1969.
I have never had any personal interest in the achievement program.
But then again I have never felt the need to travel across the country to a model train convention either.
That said, I have the privilege of knowing one the earliest recipients of the MMR award who is still alive today. His MMR # is two digits.......
He is truely a great modeler, and a great person.
For some people things like the achievement program are no different than getting college degree - it just happens to be in the subject of their hobby.
Well, I don't have a college degree in my profession or in my hobby.
But that does not mean I will be disrespectful to those who do.
Relevant? It never was relevant to people not interested in it.
Some people find value in judging themselves against standards others have set, and for some things in our culture this is required - formal education, for other things it is just a personal choice.
Kevin, I don't much care what wargammers think of model railroaders. And, if wargamming is "getting drunk and .........", I'm happy to be left out.
Sheldon
JDL56But out of curiosity, I wonder: How important is the MMR to modellers today? How many are pursuing it or intend to? Is it still relevant and important today?
I'm not a member of the NMRA, and never plan to be. Some on here are, and good for them. Some talk about going for their MMR Achivement, and I'm happy for them.
I model to MY standards, and when I think I've done a decent job, I show pictures, and let the responses judge my work.
Many trade groups have such an acknowledgment for excellence and achivements. There is a home inspector organization I belong to ( one of three) and they have a Certified Master Inspection thing. Nobody has ever asked me if I'm a CMI.
If you want to be a MMR, then go for it. Like any achivement award, in any type of hobby or profession, it's what is important to you.
Mike.
My You Tube
There are people, to whom having an achievement program and participating in it is important. While I think I could have never developed an interest in achieving such kind of an award, I am not belittling those people who do gor for the award.
Nevertheless, the MMR is a thing of the past, at least in my humble opinion. It was aimed at getting recognition of your work at a broader level - a role, which, to an extent, forums like this have taken in the days of the Internet. Just look at the work of art presented in the weekly WPF-thread!
Oh why sneer at something we personally don't care about? Should we laugh at Boy Scouts and their merit badges? Or at guys who go on to become EAgle Scouts? Bowlers and their achievment patches sewn on their shirts? (I have a 100 pins over average game patch myself. Go ahead and smirk.) Someone who gets their green belt at karate class?
It is a peer approval thing for people who care about their fellow modelers recognition. I don't care a whit myself. It is no more pointless than dressing like a conductor and sitting at a dispatcher's panel in a remote corner of the basement on operating night.
It costs me nothing and harms no one that we have MMR. If my friends laugh at MMR, heck, people laugh at us just for "playing with trains."
You will never get a good answer when discussing "the likes" of people, or what is right or wrong, it is the same with art and music. (MRR is by itself a creation of art) 10 trillion people, 10 trillion different opinions.
If i should say something more... i would for sure step on some one else toes.
Peace,:)
The Master Model Railroader designation means you invested the time effort to learn and master the skills required to complete various tasks under the Achievement Program. It defines the goals to be met, and your work will be judged accordingly.
It's not easy and takes time. Those who earn an AP certificate have demonstrated they have reached a superior level of skill in that area. You are recognized for having achieved that.
Do that enough times, you'll recieve enough certificates in the required disciplines to get an MMR. Along the way you will become a better modeller, gained the confidence to tackle projects you never thought you could, and learned not only how, but why something is done that specific way.
It's not so much about a plaque, but really about becoming a better modeller.
Enzoamps Oh why sneer at something we personally don't care about? Should we laugh at Boy Scouts and their merit badges? Or at guys who go on to become EAgle Scouts? Bowlers and their achievment patches sewn on their shirts? (I have a 100 pins over average game patch myself. Go ahead and smirk.) Someone who gets their green belt at karate class?
I do not see the point either other than bragging rights. Ones models and layout speak for thier skills. I have master certification in other things that related to my past job repairing lawn mowing equipment. Those are important to ones employer and to the customers who's equipment you are fixing. Do they offer such in things like brass model train repair...no. But most local modelers and a major hobby shop nearby call me whenever a brass model needs some tlc. It is here where my past work and beauty of my own models speak to my skills. Its a hobby first and foremost. And as such should be fun! So, if getting that MMR is something you enjoy achieving as much as I enjoy working on brass trains. Then by all means, go for it. I will applaud your efforts and enjoy the pictures of your progress if you choose to share them. I bet Rod Stewert could be a MMR by looking at his layout pictures, as well as many others out there. Mike the Aspie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
I was an NMRA member for a number of years, and appreciate the efforts needed to earn the MMR certificate. It is certainly not an easy goal, and typically takes years to achieve. To work towards the certificate is an individual choice, and I applaud those that have managed to reach that goal.
Why would anyone put the program down? Who cares if one approves of the program or not? Each of us has our personal priorities and goals. And frankly, they are our own business. And with that, my advice for those that don't like the program is to just "mind their own business".
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
emdmikeI bet Rod Stewert could be a MMR by looking at his layout pictures, as well as many others out there.
IIRC, Rod Stewart has a crew of professional model builders helping him build, maintain and operate his layout. For that it may be doubtful that he would qualify.
emdmikeI do not see the point either other than bragging rights.
Folks who pursue becoming an MMR do that certainly not to brag with it, put to challenge and expand their limits. OK with me, as long as model railroading stays what it is supposed to be (and what MR used to have as a slogan):
This is a recognition program for those who enjoy them. It's similar to the trophies awarded to winners in wargaming tournaments, R/C model contests, etc. with some service requirements added in. In fact when you go back to the beginning, requirements for several MMR categories could be met by winning model contest trophies at the conventions. The relevance is the same as a shelf full of trophies.
So if competition/recognition is your goal in the hobby go for it. Personally, I prefer a more relaxed hobby. That's what makes this a great hobby - so many ways to enjoy it.
Paul
I've been in the hobby for 40 years and have never heard of the term.
- Douglas
JDL56 A friend recently achieved his Master Model Railroader (MMR). It took him about 20 or more years. I'm glad for him--he deserves it. He put in the work and earned it. But out of curiosity, I wonder: How important is the MMR to modellers today? How many are pursuing it or intend to? Is it still relevant and important today? John Longhurst, Winnipeg
It's not important to me but I have a lot of respect for those who have achieved that. I don't know what is required but I'm sure the process forces one to develop a high level of skill in a number of areas.
Couldn't I just buy a copy of the certificate and lie about earning it...
While it's neither relevant or important to me, I respect anyone who chooses to pursue it. I certainly don't have a fraction of the skills or drive that MMR do, but I still have lots of fun, and that's what it's all about.
Bubbytrains
For all model railroaders, in my opinion:
Very little.
Very few.
It never was relevant and important. And is not relevant or important today.
In my model railroad meanderings in the past 60 years, I have never met a MMR (that I know of). I have never met someone who revealed a yearning to be or was in awe of an MMR. I have never heard any discussion or even mention of the term in conversation with other model railroaders.
Where I have seen it is in the pages of Railroad Model Craftsman, where there appeared to be a promotional push for some NMRA get-together. I recall in a particular issue that many of the author's names were followed by the term.
Ed
JDL56...How important is the MMR to modellers today? How many are pursuing it or intend to? Is it still relevant and important today?...
I suppose that for those who pursue it, it's still relevant, but I'm no more impressed by those I've met than I am by others with apparent equal skills, who are simply doing something they enjoy.There are a few who seem to feel it necessary to add those letters to their signature, like adding PHD or some other designation...good for you, but none of those added-on letters impress me.
I don't belong to the NMRA, either, but do enjoy and appreciate the benefits of their standards and recommended practices. I don't require their approval, though.I'm a little put-off, though, by the constant references to "craftsman" lately in RMC - it just seems a little too snooty for my tastes. I know that the word is part of the name of the magazine, but c'mon, we're just playing with trains, some more seriously than others.
Wayne
First of all I say congratulations to your friend. To me it’s a great accomplishment. It is downplayed by MR staff and never mentioned in the magazine. I don’t see any staff member’s names on the list (but I could have missed them.) Becoming a Master Model Railroader is a personal achievement thing. If you were a Boy Scout it would be the hardest merit badge ever. I earned both Railroading and Model Building merit badges which were both much easier than the MMR requirements. I have checked out the requirements for becoming a MMR and it is not easy at all. Only a small number of people have actually achieved it. There is a list and it is a lot shorter than you would expect, only about 600 people including W. Allen McClelland, and William Walthers. It takes years of work and a lot of knowledge about electric trains and scratch building scale models as well as participation in workshops and even being a published author. It’s not something you do to impress others, (I don‘t think). It’s more like a list of personal goals. I am not an NMRA member and I doubt I ever will be but I would still like to challenge myself to complete all of the assignments on the list. Being an expert at DC block control wiring is no problem to me but scratch building a Jordan spreader is very much a challenge. I’m going for it and checking things off of my list as I complete them.
Lone Wolf and Santa FeI’m going for it and checking things off of my list as I complete them.
Good for you Lone Wolf! I too am working the AP Program. I got started Back a little over a decade ago. A gent by the name of Harold Russell (Who is the person still living that has had his MMR the longest) got me into it. Harold just recieved his Scenery Certificate last Saturday at out Division Meet. Yep, 85 years old, has his MMR and still working the program!
Within the next year and a-half I should be finished earning my MMR. I have already earned 5 Certificates, have one (Structures) almost finished, and then will decide whether to do either cars or locomotives to finish it up. Harold used to tell me which one I had the best start on every time I finished one. He would leave my house and say something like, "Think Civil, Ray!" He recently told me to "Think Author"..... I will continue to work on other certificates even after I recieve my MMR.
A couple people have said it's not about the sheet of paper or the thingie to hang on the wall. They are correct! It is about the learning and growth in the hobby that comes out of the program. My modeling has taken leaps forward as I learned from the requirements in the program. Yes there are people who have achieved wonderful things without being in the program, but.......... I have had the pleasure to meet and learn from some of the best of the best in this hobby. Most of them have earned their MMR. If you are a member of the NMRA, I highly recommend taking a look and starting your journey to excellence through the AP.
Yes, there is very much a place for the NMRA AP in today's model railroading!
Oh... And BTW, the program was started by a group of Scoutmasters who were model railroaders back when. It has a lot of similarities to Eagle Scout including that when you sign the paperwork for the award you make a promise to help others aloing the way! MMR is not the end, it is the begining of serving the hobby....
73
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
I think the more things any hobby has to offer the more interest there will be in it is as it draws in even more people. I have done a lot of things in my life, way more than most and sometimes I wanted to see how good I was at something. For me, getting graded on something by experts working from set parametre's tells me if I am as good as I think I am or need more work.
Some people enter marathons to try and improve their time, others just like to run and could care less if they come in near the top or the bottom of the heap. The clock is the judge and it doesn't bother me in the least that some people go up against it. I hate running by the way, but I totally accept the fact that some will find the clock relevant to them enjoying their pastime.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
The problem isn't with the MMR, or even the Achievement Program, but how they are implemented and what their focus is.The requirements were drawn up back in the days of Athearn Blue Box kits and Mantua steam engines. For instance, the requirement to "superdetail" cars for the Master Builder: Cars. Nowadays... what's left to superdetail? An $11 Accurail gon kit has brake rigging, and separate grab irons become available under $20. An off the shelf Athearn locomotive is far better than anything that won contests 50 years ago.The whole AP system is no longer "Learn these skills to build a better railroad," but "learn these skills .... because."
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
doctorwaynebut c'mon, we're just playing with trains, some more seriously than others.
This is the best quote I have seen all year. Wayne is so good at putting into simple words what I wish I could have stated myself.
I am playing with trains too... and not very seriously. Just having as much fun as I can.
Just as with the Eagle Scouts, there are some people who blow through the MMR program and do the minimum necessary, and there are others who take it to heart and really distinguish themselves. It isn't hard to figure out who is who. I have known many highly accomplished and helpful modelers who never gave a thought to the MMR program, as well.
IRONROOSTER In fact when you go back to the beginning, requirements for several MMR categories could be met by winning model contest trophies at the conventions. The relevance is the same as a shelf full of trophies.
In fact, you are wrong. The MMR requirements do NOT require you to WIN any contests or trophies at conventions or anyplace else. You could come in in last place, but as long as you hit the required number of points, you've met the requirements.
NMRA 2) Earn a Merit Award of at least 87.5 points with each of the three scale models of motive power either via an NMRA sponsored contest or AP Merit Award Judging.
No mention of "winning". What the rules require your models to be is JUDGED and to recieve a minimum score in the judging. That can be done in a contest or separate judging. When I belonged to the NMRA our division had enough people qualified to be judges that a couple times a year they would judge models at the division meetings. No contest involved.
The biggest problem with the judging is the quality of the judges, based on the feedback on these forums. Inconsistent scoring or not taking the time to study the documentation seem to be the two biggest problems.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Bayfield Transfer RailwayThe whole AP system is no longer "Learn these skills to build a better railroad," but "learn these skills .... because."
Please explain why learning the skills to do quality modeling is irrelevant. I would be horribly disappointed if all it took to be a "master model railroader" is a lot of money.
What people seem to overlook in a lot of this is the documentation. You have to explain what you did and why you did it. Its not just that the car has brake rigging, its that this type of car has this type of brake rigging and this is how you resrached it and this is how you modeled it.
dehusman IRONROOSTER In fact when you go back to the beginning, requirements for several MMR categories could be met by winning model contest trophies at the conventions. The relevance is the same as a shelf full of trophies. In fact, you are wrong. The MMR requirements do NOT require you to WIN any contests or trophies at conventions or anyplace else. You could come in in last place, but as long as you hit the required number of points, you've met the requirements.
You have failed to read and understand.
I said when you "go back" - that is to a period in the past (in my case 1972 is the earliest year for which I have documentation on MMR requirements). I said you "could" not "had to" win contests to meet requirements in several categories.
MMR relevant? It still is and those who think it's long life as a program is due to detailing Blue Box stuff just don't understand wgat it's about.
MMR important? Depends on what you mean by important. Is t something that modelers in general spend much time contemplating? No, not at all. Nonetheless, wed be much poorer as a hobby without this effort nudging things forward. Many MMRs have developed products still in use in the hobby and run other hobby businesses. To some extent, that has changed in recent years as the hobby itself has changed. but innovation in modeling is still a large part of the results of the program.
I'm a longtime NMRA member, but only started considering pursuing it recently, Like most MMRs I've actually known (online only so far), my interest is in self-improvment, not "bragging rights." We don't (most of us anyway) discourage people from getting a better education. Pursuing a MMR is no different. If it bothers you someone else got a college degree, the answer usually is to get one yourself and this is no different. If the degree doesn't matter to you, that's understandable, but it doesn't make much sense to me to feel aggrieved about others trying to better themselves by study, work, and writing.
While Brakie is right, there are many with skills like those a MMR would typically have, only those who've done the paperwork and submitted it in a systematic way are actually MMRs with the qualifications that entails. Jimmy recently commented favorably on my work in WPF by saying he felt my work qualified me toward the MMR (Thanks, Jimmy!). That could very well be the case, but it won't happen until I get off my lazy bum and write it up. No one's responsibility to do that other than mine own.
Kevin,
Given, what I've just noted, I'm not sure how the MMR "is not good for the hobby." What a MMR layout looks like can vary, but there's no judgng of overall layouts as part of the MMR qualifications. I have the Golden Spike award, which shows demonstration of basic competence needed to build a layout, but it doesn't count toward the MMR itself even though it's part of the Achievement Program. In the MMR, you are judged on specifc pieces of modeling, which need not even be in the same scle, era, or roadname.
betamax The Master Model Railroader designation means you invested the time effort to learn and master the skills required to complete various tasks under the Achievement Program. It defines the goals to be met, and your work will be judged accordingly. SNIP It's not so much about a plaque, but really about becoming a better modeller.
SNIP
Betamax's concise summary once again emphasizes the personal development aspect of the MMR. It's about improving your modeling, not crowning you the best modeler for the here and now. That's what contests are for and as other have noted, that's entirey optional to the MMR qualifications.
emdmikeif getting that MMR is something you enjoy achieving as much as I enjoy working on brass trains. Then by all means, go for it.
Mike, That's exactly why people pursue the MMR, because they enjoy trains. The motive power AP cert includes just the sort of thing that would be of interest to a builder or repair person interested in brass. But I can also totally see someone having no interest in the formal recognition of their skills. The only drawback to your lack of participation is that you're probably missing out on further opportunities to share your skills and knowledge with others who would be eager to hear from others on this topic.
LW&SF points out how few have actually qualified to be a MMR, suggesting that it's not a gimme, pushover, or the result of merely flicking throgh checklists. While few aspire to it and even fewer successfully pursue it, the MMR and its basic requirements also suggest a useful guide to learning a lot of basic and very practical knowledge about the hobby.
Ray, Congrats to you on MR's publication of your build on the stone tower a few issues back, parts of which incidentally appeared first in WPF as it went together. I don't seen anything at all threatening or mysterious about Ray's work on that, more like a lot of inspiring, educating on methods, and a willingness to help.
Me? I'm stil undecided about how seriously to take up the MMR, but I do have an interest. My success in pursing the MMR depends on my own efforts and it seems pretty pointless to argue my success or failure is a bad thing for others so long as the opportunity is there for others to follow if they want. Or to ignore like most do.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL