I have a large number of Athearn feight cars and I'm not too happy with the trucks, too much play with the axles and not great spin with the wheels. I would like to start replacing them with something better. Whats a good brand of replacement tucks. Thanks.
I have not bought many replacement trucks. Others can advise on which they prefer.
I replace my freight car wheelsets with metal wheels with the idea that it helps free rolling (considerably) as well as minimizing dirt accumulation on the wheels and helping track cleanliness. I have used mainly Intermountain 33" wheelsets (for cars up to 70T), which go about 60+ cents per axle in the 100 pack, or less than $3 per car They seem just fine for the Athearn BB, Accurail, Bowser and other cars I have converted. I've also used some Proto ribbed back on older era cars.
It may be of interest to consider wheelset replacement vs. truck replacement and/or use both options for different cases. Trucks seem to go for $6-8 per pair for Kadee, Tangent and Proto. Not just a matter of cost, of course, as looks and truck type matter also.
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/HO-Scale-Trucks-Wheelsets-s/1469.htm?searching=Y&sort=3&cat=1469&show=30&page=1
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
mike33469 I have a large number of Athearn feight cars and I'm not too happy with the trucks, too much play with the axles and not great spin with the wheels. I would like to start replacing them with something better. Whats a good brand of replacement tucks. Thanks.
Maybe it would help if we knew how old these Athearn cars are, because most every Athearn car sold in the last 20-30 years has pretty good trucks. and in the last 10-15 years most have nice metal wheels......
But, Kadee makes nice replacement trucks, as do a number of other brands.
Not all will be drop in replacements, again it would help to know the age and types of Athearn cars.....
Sheldon
You might consider a rebox truck tuner (not sure if I spelled that correctly). I also put neolube on the axle points.
Many replacement trucks are good. Exactly which one you should choose depends greatly on the car. ExactRail, Walthers, Tangent, and others make nice trucks with high quality wheelsets. Choosing appropriate trucks can upgrade models by adding some realistic variety (e.g. ASF, Barber, 70-ton, 100-ton, etc.).
One of the problems often encountered with older Athearn roller bearing trucks involved journals that are too deep for most axle lengths found on replacement wheelsets. A truck tuner won't do much good in such cases. There's too much slop unless you use Reboxx wheelsets with longer axles.
Newer Athearn trucks have decent wheelsets, but I've had some where the journals are too shallow, and with these a truck tuner can make the stock wheelsets perform well.
Rob Spangler
I mostly just replace the wheelsets with metal ones from Intermountain. For those problem trucks that are either worn out and too loose, or all-metal like some old Mantua/Tyco trucks, I've bought a bunch of Tichy trucks. They come with plastic wheels, which I throw out so I can replace them, but they are cheap and work well. They are shiny plastic, so I paint and weather them before installation.
I also recommend the Micro Mark Truck Tuner to get the best rolling performance.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I've used trucks from Accurail, Atlas, Bowser, Central Valley, Kadee, Lindberg, Tahoe, Tangent, Tichy, and Walthers (and probably others that I can't recall at the moment). Most were for cars bought "used", without trucks or for scratchbuilt cars. I have problems with very few of the trucks which come with most cars, and recently re-did a number of Tyco gondolas, removing the truck-mounted couplers and replacing them with body-mounted Kadees. I then altered the clip-in design of the Tyco trucks to a screw-mounted type, and re-used the well-detailed sideframes and the original plastic wheels...
My favourite trucks to use are Accurail's Andrews-style , and Bowser's Crown- and Bettendorf-styles. Tahoe trucks of all styles are very nice, too, but I'd prefer them with plastic wheels.
Wayne
doctorwayneMy favourite trucks to use are Accurail's Andrews-style , and Bowser's Crown- and Bettendorf-styles. Tahoe trucks of all styles are very nice, too, but I'd prefer them with plastic wheels.
Why do you prefer the plastic wheels?
I've got a string of old Tyco/Mantua clamshell hoppers. They're pretty heavy, and they came with truck mounted couplers. I, too, removed those and replaced them with Kadees. They had horn-hooks originally, so replacing the couplers was a must. My layout is pretty flat, but even a flat layout has a few inadvertant ups and downs, and I found pulling that string of 11 old hopper required a pair of GP9s. Eventually, I replaced the trucks and wheels with Intermountain metal wheelsets and Tichy trucks. The rolling resistance improved so much that I was able to replace the pair of diesels with a single small steamer.
The thing that surprises me about your post is that whatever their other faults the one thing that could be said of Athearn trucks was that they do, or did, since the Blue Box days, roll well. I am speaking here of the plastic trucks which replaced the old pre-RP25 metal sprung trucks (either actual springs or those odd rubber nubbins that supposedly "looked like" springs), from the 1950s. Indeed I well remember that the advent of the Lindberg and Athearn free rolling trucks caused a lot of guys with layouts to have to tinker with their yards and sidings which they thought were flat but the new free rollings cars showed were anything but!
The only two axle Athearn plastic (Delrin?) freight car truck that did not roll well in my experience was their brief flirtation in the late 1960s, or perhaps very early 1970s, with roller bearing caps that actually turned. But they looked neat.
Maybe it is just me, but as to another posting on this thread and a response to it, I am starting to encounter more guys who either are switching to, or sticking with, plastic wheels. In some cases it has to do with DCC and electrical shorts. Maybe too few guys to be called a trend but enough to be noticed. Those of use who install metal wheels sure have plenty of plastic one to give away!
Dave Nelson
MisterBeasleyWhy do you prefer the plastic wheels?...
There are two reasons why I prefer plastic wheels. One is the noise made by metal wheels...it's nothing like the sound of the prototype, so constitutes, to me, at least, an incongruous and annoying distraction...it's nothing but noise. I spent almost 40 years in a steel mill, and have had more than my share of noise.The other thing I don't like about metal wheels is the appearance. Yeah, unlike the all-black plastic wheels, the wheel treads are shiny like those of the prototype, but they only serve to draw the viewer's eye to the fact that they're grossly overly-wide. Semi-scale wheels fare no better, as their narrower width helps to reveal the unprototypical gap between the wheel faces and the still-overly wide sideframes.I might view metal wheels more favourably were I modelling in Proto 87, but would I then be offended by the overly-wide drivers on my steam locomotives?
Beyond those two reasons, I don't buy into the myth that metal wheels roll better than plastic: while many trucks with metal wheels do roll very well, it's my opinion that the rolling qualities have more to do with a better interface between the axle ends and the pockets in the sideframes in which they rotate. They're simply better-matched than the axles and sideframes of many older trucks which are equipped with plastic wheels. I also don't find plastic wheels any different than metal as far as track cleaning is concerned. I clean track, in the conventional sense, only after ballasting. After that, a yearly or bi-yearly vacuuming keeps things running smoothly.
I do have an increasing amount of metal wheels on my layout, and I almost never replace them with plastic ones. I put that down mostly to having too much other stuff that I want to do, but I suppose that if suitable plastic wheels were available and affordable (very little model railroad stuff in Canada is inexpensive), I might take the time to make such changes.
Another gripe for me about metal wheels is that so many who use them neglect to paint them. Each modeller is entitled to model as they wish, and I agree that it's none of my business. However, I often wonder why the wheels are left "unfinished"....is it because they too lack the time, in this case, to paint them? Or perhaps the cost of the replacement wheels was so great that the shiny wheels have become a status symbol..."Look at me! I can afford metal wheels!"
Here's a wood-sided (Evergreen scribed sheet styrene) baggage/express car. It started life as an Athearn Pullman, and is still equipped with plastic wheels in its original metal trucks....
It's sitting on straight track that's on a 2.5% grade. Several seconds before the photo was taken, it was uphill, to the right, and just out-of-frame. I gave it a bit of a push downhill, then another, then several more, before it was fully visible to the camera.While I may eventually replace those rivetted-together trucks, the scenario described pretty-well sums up my concerns about free-rolling.
Hello all,
Check out this thread...
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/249039.aspx
After that discussion I "locked out" the springs with CA and then went with Kadee HGC A.S.F.® S-2 70-Ton ACL Roller Bearing Trucks.
I am slowly in the process of up-grading the sprung trucks with the HGC's.
Kadee also has a 100-Ton version too.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
jjdamnit...went with Kadee HGC A.S.F.® S-2 70-Ton ACL Roller Bearing Trucks.
Note that the ACL trucks linked above were developed by the Atlantic Coast Line, and use was almost exclusively limited to ACL and its successors (e.g. Seaboard Coast Line, CSX), or buyers of old ACL cars. They had a rod across the pedestal jaws under the axle, something no other railroad found necessary.
wp8thsubNote that the ACL trucks linked above were developed by the Atlantic Coast Line, and use was almost exclusively limited to ACL and its successors
I run trains, I don't count rivits.
jjdamnit Hello all, Check out this thread... http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/249039.aspx After that discussion I "locked out" the springs with CA and then went with Kadee HGC A.S.F.® S-2 70-Ton ACL Roller Bearing Trucks. I am slowly in the process of up-grading the sprung trucks with the HGC's. Kadee also has a 100-Ton version too. Hope this helps.
You are more than welcome to send me your sprung trucks.
Most of my 800 car fleet rides on sprung trucks and in my experiance they work better than rigid trucks.
I use a unique and expensive combination for most of my trucks. Kadee sprung metal trucks refitted with Intermountain metal wheelsets. I am not the only modeler doing this. And I have talked about it repeatedly on this forum - for many years, guess I missed that thread 2 years ago.
Extensive testing has shown this setup to be more free rolling and better tracking than any rigid truck.
Why did I do this? To get the very best tracking fo long trains. A "typical" train on my layout is 30-40 cars, some can be as long as 80-100 cars.
It is not about actual spring action, it is about equalization, keeping all wheels on the rail all the time. Especially on trackage with super elevation, grade transitions, etc.
The axles of rigid trucks can sometimes actually ride "on the point" of the axle in the apex of the journal, but a sprung truck axle must ride with the top of the axle cone against the top of the journal cone to work correctly.
In my case, using metal sprung trucks and metal wheels, adds weight where it matters most, down low at the track.
I don't use semi scale wheels or couplers. Like Dr Wayne I think they simply draw attention to other out of scale elements.
I do and will use the new Kadee HGC trucks - because they are equalized.
I understand the appearance issues with sprung trucks - performance is more important. I saw increases in the tonnage my locos could pull of over 20% as compared to rigid sideframe trucks.
Also, when I started in this hobby, about 1968, sprung trucks where actually the standard on most brands of equipment - for the same reason - equalization.
Some time back, when I did all my testing and refinement on this, I had several conversations with Sam at Kadee and he confirmed my science was correct. He also hinted at the developement of the HGC truck because the industry pressure was about the appearance of the springs and Kadee felt equalization was that important to not go to a rigid design.
Equalized, by whatever design, is better.
So do what ever works for you, but rest assured, sprung trucks work just fine, 46 years and 800 freight cars say so. Anyone having problems they think are caused by sprung trucks has other problems with track, or car weight, or something....
PS - because of my 1954 era, most of my fleet rides on Kadee #504 or #552, refitted with Intermountain wheels:
https://kadee.com/htmbord/page504_552_562_563_1562_1563.htm
After reading in more detail the thread referenced above from 2015 about sprung trucks, I have a few more comments.
Back in the day, like the old 60's Athearn sprung trucks, or old Varney sprung trucks, none of those trucks were free rolling by todays standards. The rigid trucks or cast sideframe equalized trucks of those times were no better.
The Kadee sprung truck, as it comes out of the package is also not very free rolling. That is the result of the large cone on the axle tip. It binds slightly in the journal cone.
That is one of the reasons I replace the wheel sets with the Intermountain wheels. They have a small axle end cone and a length that allows them to ride freely in the top of the journal cone of the Kadee side frame.
The Kadee side frame is a cast white metal. I put a small drop of oil, yes oil, in each journal as I make the conversion. It soaks into the metal making them semi permanently lubed. I seldom relube them and I have no dirt issues from the oil.
Side frames that bind when the truck flexes are unacceptable, they have burrs or other problems.
I have also successfully upgraded other older sprung trucks to great performance with the Intermountain wheel sets.
In my conversations years ago with Sam from Kadee, he acknowledged all of the above. They saw the HGC truck as a solution to the both the appearance issue and the rolling issue while keeping the important equalization function and their plastic axle wheelset.
And again, I like and use the HGC truck.
What is the HGC truck? High Gravity Compound - a plastic mixed with metal to make it nearly as heavy as metal - important because, as I said earlier, it adds weight where it matters most for good tracking. And the interlocking split sideframe makes it equalize.
Wayne talked about his preferance for plastic wheels. My main reason for using metal wheels is the weight. that increased rolling mass makes the equalized truck work better. Central Valley knew all this decades ago when they made some ofthe best trucks available back in the day.
One other note - don't use REBOXX wheelsets in Kadee sprung trucks based on the REBOXX chart - they are too long because REBOXX sized them as if it was a rigid sideframe - they roll worse than the original Kadee wheel sets......but I won't use REBOXX in any case, no code 88 wheels here.
I have replaced lots of blue box trucks over the years. My suggestion would be to buy several different brands of trucks and settle on a favorite, then buy a bunch in bulk (hopefully at a discount) and keep them “in stock”. Do the same thing with 33” wheels – (try and then buy in bulk at a discount).
I have a truck/wheel box full of various different trucks and wheels collected over many years in the hobby – one note when you remove bad wheels or trucks from your cars make sure you mark them so you don’t mistakenly install them later on another car (don’t ask).
In general I agree that the blue box trucks work pretty well with the occasional problem truck. My suggestion first would be to replace the wheel sets and see if that helps, next would be truck replacement if wheel replacement doesn’t give satisfactory performance.
Like Dr. Wayne, I have tried nearly everything out there and in general don’t replace trucks or wheels unless they don’t roll well. My faves for Bettendorf type were the old P2k (now Walthers proto) trucks and wheels. I also like the old MDC arch bar trucks (now OOP). I avoid sprung trucks, and Tichy trucks. Tahoe model works are also very nice.
As you can see from this thread, opinions do vary on this subject,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
ATLANTIC CENTRALAlso, when I started in this hobby, about 1968... <snip> ...work just fine, 46 years and 800 freight cars say so.
.
Umm... That is 49 years.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I have about 300 cars, mostly Athearn blue box kits, Roundhouse kits and some Walthers kits mostly from the 1990s. Almost all of them have their original wheels and have never been a problem except that one Walthers kit had wheels that were not round. They still rolled but they made the car wobble. “If it works don’t fix it,” so I haven’t except that Walthers car and a McKean car that also had really bad wheels. I have bought used cars with metal wheels but I haven’t noticed any difference that would make me want to change all of the other wheels. As for Tyco and old Bachmann cars with truck mounted couplers, I just cut off the couplers and keep using the trucks and body mount Kadee #5 couplers. Before replacing a bunch of wheels I would recommend that you remove the wheels that don’t roll freely and stretch out the trucks a little bit in case they hold the wheels too tightly. Also maybe a little lubrication.
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Also, when I started in this hobby, about 1968... <snip> ...work just fine, 46 years and 800 freight cars say so. . Umm... That is 49 years. . . -Kevin .
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Also, when I started in this hobby, about 1968... <snip> ...work just fine, 46 years and 800 freight cars say so.
Time flies when you are having fun.........
doctorwayne I suppose that if suitable plastic wheels were available and affordable (very little model railroad stuff in Canada is inexpensive), I might take the time to make such changes.
I have a small stash of plastic wheels from all kinds of kits I would be more than happy to send you for free... You can't get much more affordable than that!