Now since i've past the artifact and relic stage and being classified as a "collectible",...............I find myself wondering what would I have done or modeled if I were just beginning.
I began in 1962 modeling the SP as I once worked on the T&NO (don't be impressed....my job was one rung below cleaning the company latrines). That did not work so then PRR. Great, but everyone I knew in the hobby during that period was also modeling the Pennsy. I then went into Appalachian roads due to the incredible scenery, but I soon learned that I had no history with the toys I was playing with..........only in photos or video. Now I'm into modeling roads I knew and witnessed during my youth which were Erie, PRR (yes, again), NYC, and CNJ. I find this rewarding but in essence it is only a time capsule as are most model railroads today.
Knowing that I'm picking and modeling a period long lost to time, why not something different?
If I were just a decade younger, I would most likely tear everything down to the bench work and model the period from the late 19th century to around 1910. My interest now (and most of us do change) are heavy into this period of railroading as most equipment would have to be scratch built or bashed, code 55 rail would be a rewarding challenge to hand lay along with stub turnouts, and runs would be enormous as the average passenger train was hauled by either a 4-4-0, 2-6-0, or 4-6-0 and consisted of three cars, Most freights were headed by 2-8-0s and 2-6-0s and consisted of around 20 cars. I love the architecture of the period and the overall imagery......but this most likely will not happen as 5 years ago I seriously considered again ripping everything down and going to On3. Only my 7 foot ceiling brought me into reality. Possibly this new bug could bite me, but the thought of completing a late 19th century pike and then dropping dead the following day is food for thought.....but the real fun is not completing, but in the design and building.
Thanks for reading my rant.......anyone care to share thoughts?
HZ
Given the change to start over? I would model the same era that I am modeling now, circa 1950. What some folks refer to as "the transitional period". This gives you probably the largest selection of motive power to choose from, as more and more diesels are being brought onto line. People are still traveling by rail, although the Eisenhower highway system is now becoming a major threat to the railroads. With jet powered passenger aviation coming onto the scene, travel by any other means seems archaic and passe'.
But even though I was born a little too late to witness this "golden age" in person, if given the chance, I would still model circa 1950.
It's all about the journey, so I have no regrets. I've found skills I never knew I had, and I'm proud of what I must very soon dismantle.
I'll be selling my home of 37 years, and the real estate people say the train layout must go before the house can be "shown." So, I'll have to pack it up and tear it all down. It has kind of a modular design, so I should be able to preserve it in sections, but I wish I'd done that better. Not having settled on a new home yet (this is a divorce) I will certainly have to put the trains in storage for a while, probably at least a year, and may never really resurrect this layout.
I would do my subways differently. I first built a simple oval with a passing siding for them, built beneath the surface layout and only exposed on the edges where the stations were. If I were to do it again, I'd make a longer, point-to-point subway with automatic reversing. I think that would be fun.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Howard,
When I lived in Scum City for 35 long years I changed scales and gauges several times. My problem (well.....ONE of my problems!) is I like practically everything railroading with the exceptions of NYC, UP and modern diesels. I tried Colorado NG in On3, Sn3 and HOn3 and for various reasons I lost interest.
I grew up NE of Baltimore between the B&O and Pennsy and very close to the Ma&Pa. I started a generic Eastern style layout with B&O, PRR and some Reading and then decided the N&W & Virginian were too awesome not to model them. All these changes have cost me a lot in buying and selling equipment or trading for paint jobs.
My next venture was into S scale. My original American Flyer roots made me yearn for the size and great operating features available through S scale. I did find near total happiness with S scale. Just about THE most perfect size for operating. I did that for many years until 1995 when I was diagnosed with Cancer and my inept Quack told me "you aren't going to make it". So out of pure terror and a desire to save my wife the hassles of disposing of everything I managed to sell most everything. Then I defied the Modern Man of Medicine and managed to live through it.
So then..........no trains in hand..........I found a customer who had tons of brass and other equipment but no money! SO........paint jobs were traded for new HO stuff and a new path was opened for me. This next "big thing" was doing the Ma&Pa. A great deal for 2 desperate modelers! lol It's a fantastic little RR and has so much charm and attraction it's hard to believe. I modeled that in HO for about 12 years and then decided mountains and coal trains were too intriguing so enter the Western Maryland.
I've been doing the WM now for over 10 years and so far it's been the most fun I've had. The engines are interesting, chunky and colorful. The coal trains never lose interest for me and the scenery is beyond compare.
I retired 4 years ago and my new train building and shop are about to be completed to where I can start painting again and get the layout going. I'm REALLY looking forward to getting the paint shop running again probably even more thaan building a new layout!
So, I can say I truly "have started over again".......several times. It can be fun but also expensive. Doing the research has been a lot of fun and seeking out the often elusive equipment can be fun as well as frustrating.
My 2¢,
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
...I wouldn't. I'm happy with my current choices.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Starting over - hmmm
I admit that doing a 1900-1910 layout in 2 rail O scale has a real appeal for me. I also would like to do an Interurban in S in the 1920's. And a 1950's Santa Fe in HO scale could be fun. So could a modern N scale BNSF. And then there's the Maine 2 footers in On30 or the EBT in Sn3. There's also.....
Well that's the problem, too many to do them all.
But I also like the Maryland & Pennsylvania early 1950's in S scale. So that's what I'll continue to do. Starting out now in S scale (as opposed to S HiRail) is a problem if you want steam. There never was much available and now there's only Northern's and Pacific's plus occasional brass offerings on the scale side. Fortunately, I have acquired enough stuff already, including kits for Ma&Pa 41, 42, 43 and EBT 0-6-0 kits that's I will label Ma&Pa as well as an SHS B&O 2-8-0. The kits are no longer made and I don't know if MTH (who bought SHS) will do the 2-8-0 again.
If I didn't have all the S stuff already, I would do a freelance shortline in the 50's in 2 rail O scale.
Paul
Well, my whole life I have been interested in the Southwest, its history and railroads, but as only an occasional visitor, I don't really do it justice.
Modeling what I know from my youth is a total non-starter...I have attempted, but the railroad history of Pennsylvania has been too depressing for me. My memories are a couple quick glimpses of Reading big Alco Centuries at Reading, and most vividly of early Conrail's horrid track condition and derailments where just about every single car was on the ground stretching through Montoursville, PA, my hometown.
I have tried several times to model what was close by, but literally every single time I buy a gorgeous Penn Central green freight car, I end up selling it a couple weeks later, because I just can't abide or really forgive or get past Penn Central. My friends, some of whom are now gone, never could accept Penn Central.
I can like or respect PRR, but aesthetically, I just cannot like Belpaire boilers.
I like big mountain mauling articulateds of Rio Grande and Western Pacific, but with kids still at home, part of the layout actually supports a slot car racing track elevated above what was my desert scene. I have gone back to 1970's ahem "model" railroading...if you can call it that...I rebuilt some curves to 30 inch plus radii, but that negatively impacted halfway decent desert scenery that I have not retouched.
I am just running what I like, and will trash and rebuild this layout at a future date, perhaps with a big multi-span bridge scene featuring Overland brass bridges. That would be the dream layout.
John
I wouldn't have minded modeling Santa Fe back in the "compound" days. Or, in fact, Santa Fe, generally. And there are certainly other railroads that would be good/fun choices (NYC, Southern, on-and-on). Maybe even smaller ones. Or logging.
And I think working in O scale would really be fun. I do have a brass Northern on the mantlepiece.
But.
Like others, I'm quite happy staying where I am (Columbia River 1945 to now--HO). I'm having a great time. I'm already heavily "invested", in just about every way.
My only concession to wanderlust is picking up some locos and rolling stock for PC, RF&P and a couple of other roads. With my Free-mo crew, one can pretty much run anything, as long as it's internally consistent. Last setup, I ran a coil steel train pulled by my PC power.
Ed
Since I have been a "serious" model railroader, starting when I was 14, I have switched scales once, and era twice. I started in N scale modeling 1950 or so. Then when the good Kato locomotives came out, I switched to 1968 for the era. This way I could use the equipment that ran good.
.
When I swicthed to HO I backdated to August, 1954. This is where I am happy. My last two layouts were at that time, and my last one will be too. I just tore down an layout, ao I guess I have the chance to start over like you were asking. So the answer is no, I would not change era or scale for my next layout.
Now... I do model a freelanced railroad, and that has given me the opportunity to change location and scenery whenever I wanted to. That also gave me the ability to switch between a dilapidated short line and a class A railroad if I wanted. Freedom is a good thing.
I think if I had a prototype railroad I would switch prototypes from time to time. I honestly think freelancing is the way to go.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
As I mentioned in another thread, I started my layout in 1989-1990. I bit off more than I chew and didn't have a clue what I was doing. Being bone headed, I kept changing the layout trying to 'fix' it. I should have ripped it out and start over.
If I could start over, I would still have a private ( or what if... ) railroad or two like the South Penn. Real railroads would still run along side my 'what if' railroads. I just don't like being pigeon holed into doing what a prototype railroad did.
The major difference would be the layout itself. Wider aisles, make all areas of the layout accessible from a standing position in the aisles, no reverse loops, and more sidings and storage for all my rolling stock. I have the room ( ~550 sq ft ) to do it right, I just blew it the first time. I would probably stick with code 100 track instead of mixing codes. I wouldn't use DCC. Everything would be RailPro.
There would be a lot more planning and research.
I'd stick with the proto-freelance thing I have now, modern time, 90's on.
What would change is a longer main line run, still a continuous loop, and a staging area.
I got a late start, and never was around steam equipment, even though I'm 68. I was on farms most of my child years, and through high school.
The start-up of the WC in 1987 rekindled my model train ambitions, even though my first train was at age 6, a Marx, maroon color Sante Fe swicher. My next train wasn't until 1967, an HO set, I think a Penn line? I don't remember right now. It wasn't a Tyco or Bachmann.
Mike.
My You Tube
Howard Zane Now since i've past the artifact and relic stage and being classified as a "collectible",...............I find myself wondering what would I have done or modeled if I were just beginning. I began in 1962 modeling the SP as I once worked on the T&NO (don't be impressed....my job was one rung below cleaning the company latrines). That did not work so then PRR. Great, but everyone I knew in the hobby during that period was also modeling the Pennsy. I then went into Appalachian roads due to the incredible scenery, but I soon learned that I had no history with the toys I was playing with..........only in photos or video. Now I'm into modeling roads I knew and witnessed during my youth which were Erie, PRR (yes, again), NYC, and CNJ. I find this rewarding but in essence it is only a time capsule as are most model railroads today. Knowing that I'm picking and modeling a period long lost to time, why not something different? If I were just a decade younger, I would most likely tear everything down to the bench work and model the period from the late 19th century to around 1910. My interest now (and most of us do change) are heavy into this period of railroading as most equipment would have to be scratch built or bashed, code 55 rail would be a rewarding challenge to hand lay along with stub turnouts, and runs would be enormous as the average passenger train was hauled by either a 4-4-0, 2-6-0, or 4-6-0 and consisted of three cars, Most freights were headed by 2-8-0s and 2-6-0s and consisted of around 20 cars. I love the architecture of the period and the overall imagery......but this most likely will not happen as 5 years ago I seriously considered again ripping everything down and going to On3. Only my 7 foot ceiling brought me into reality. Possibly this new bug could bite me, but the thought of completing a late 19th century pike and then dropping dead the following day is food for thought.....but the real fun is not completing, but in the design and building. Thanks for reading my rant.......anyone care to share thoughts? HZ
Good question..Without a doubt I would keep my ISLs over loop layouts since my interest is switching and completing a trouble free layout has always been my number one goal..
Looking back over the sixty years I been in the hobby I don't think I would change much other then maybe modeling in O Scale 2 rail.
As far as starting over I may be doing just that since I sold my Athearn BB,Roundhouse and other unwanted models and going with my higher tier models and will be adding several more cars that fits 94/95 era..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
If I had the chance to start all over again ...
Interesting question! Yes, I would do a number of things differently. First of all, I´d try to sneak some sort of staging into the design, which would be quite a challenge in a 3 by 5 ft. HO scale narrow gauge layout. Second, there is a corner of the layout which would receive a different scenery. And, last, but not least, I´d choose a much lighter colored ballast, as the one I used turned to dark to be in line with prototype practice.
Actually, all three items are not really big things and when thinking about it, it´s not too late to include the staging into the existing layout. I might eventually do it!
Like most people, I too is interested in a lot of railroads. I been back and forth with GN, CB&Q, NS, CSX, UP, BNSF, ATSF, BN, SSW, SP, DRG&W, Alton Railroad, NYC, CO BO, WM, PC, CR and my favorite AMTK.
I stuck with the more modern with the late 1980s to 2007. Union Pacific, BNSF, Conrail and Amtrak with some Southern Pacific. Don't forget the Santa Fe, and Burlington Northern.
If I was going to start over I would try to not getting the transition era freight cars to build a small New York Central layout. And jumping around the 1950-80s with different railroads. Basically stay in the modeled era.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
As far as my current layout goes, I would do pretty much the same layout I have now with a few tweaks here and there. I had conceived this layout for about a dozen years before moving into my current home which I designed to accomodate the layout in the basement so I had a real clear idea of what I wanted. I created what I set out to do. If someone says they wouldn't have done anything differently, they must not have learned anything the first time around.
Now if I were to start completely over going back to when I first got back into the hobby as an adult and was starting from scratch, I would give serious consideration to going to S scale. If S had the same product choices as HO it would be an easy decision but because HO offers so many more products, it would probably win out.
I switched from a life-long interest in the Pennsy of the late 1940s to modeling my old home town on the Chicago & North Western mid 1960s at the very time I started building my benchwork circa 1995. I quickly loaded up on C&NW locomotives and cabooses - just in time to miss the advent of DCC equipped RTR! Dang. Only a little of the rolling stock I had collected for the PRR layout could plausibly still be running 20 years later on the C&NW. And the structures nearly all have to be scratch built now to resemble what I remember or have photos of.
So what would I do differently? Well .... It is now obvious to me that I am unwilling or unable to compress things to fit the layout room, in particular the huge Bucyrus Erie factory in South Milwaukee which had its own railroad. Each compromise and compression makes me angrier and angrier and so paralyisis by analysis has set in. Big time.
What I should have done was switch to N scale while I had the chance. Even with my bad (and getting worse) eyesight, and even though I love HO, I now realize that only N would allow me to move forward with fewer or no compromises and compressions, even if the rolling stock was maybe less authentic or detailed and even if everything was RTR rather than kit-built.
But it isn't going to happen. It's too late for me. I should have listened to Keith Kohlmann while I had the chance ...... He tried to warn me that my plans called for N not HO (which he calls Horribly Oversize).
Dave Nelson
If I were to start over today, I would build the track plan I have now (preferably loosened up in a larger space) and operate it as I have been, using the present rolling stock roster After all, the scheme is only 53 years old...
If my present layout and roster went POOF and vanished, I would go to On762 and model either the Kiso Forest Railway or the Kurobe Gorge Railway - or, maybe, both.
Or I could move into my science fiction mode and attempt to model the surface transportation system of CPV Monolith - mag-lev, monorails and tube capsules. I wonder what kind of yard would work for an oversize pneumatic document transporter. How about intermodal - mag-lev wells to ground-to-orbit shuttles handling 40 foot containers...
Fun to think about, but I expect to continue puttering along as I am, where I am. After all, I'm still having fun.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September,1964 - one way or another)
Actually I was speaking of a new theme..........when it comes to the layout, there are many things I have learned and mostly if not all from mistakes I have made over the years.
First...the room for the pike should be if at all possible, suited for your design. Or design around room architecture. Try to eliminate duck unders as they get lower each year.
...allow ample aisle width is a must or just say no to visitors.
...if pike is to be in basement, ideally the stairs should should be as close to middle of room as possible as should heating/AC plant and water heater.
...if you are starting from scratch.......like a new home, think ranch house with full basement. Actually this is so important, that when I get to congress or to the White House, I'll float a bill making it illegal for a model railroader to purchase anything but a ranch house. I do not have such a house, but I have a good friend with a backhoe..........meaning that twice I dug out my yard for additions to expand the train set.
I had all of these problems and it is why my first three railroads failed miserably.
My major problem with current railroad is that 25% is hidden. I had to install over thirty security cameras in tunnels in addition to around twenty screens. Prior to this, guest operators were leaving trains in tunnels even after ignoring many signs about not doing this. I have one such area called One Mile Tunnel as is is just that.....one mile at 66.3 actual feet. My next project is to "open air" most of it as derailments and whatevers ruin operating sessions.....and that is where most problems exist.
Accessibiblity....when I was younger, I was able to reach everything on the pike, but now, I still can...but with much creaking and groaning in addition to barracks language and then some.
There is so much more, but a new thread woud be required to cover most of it.
Howard: When I first saw the title of the thread, I thought "what an interesting" topic. So I logged off with the idea of imagining what I would do if I had the chance to start over. After about 30 seconds it came to me - this is a hobby. I have the chance to start over every day. If you want to do it differently than you now do - then do it. What is holding you back?
Old Fat Robert
Well, I did design a ranch style house (log home actually) with a full basement. The stairs aren't right in the middle but about a third of the way from one end. I made them as steep as those in my previous home but I learned that is steeper than current codes. Fortunately the county I built in doesn't require adherence to building codes so I was able to do as I pleased. The original plan called for the stairway to take an L-turn to reach the floor but I overrode that. The HVAC unit (geothermal) is right behind the stairs. A couple things I hadn't figured on that I had to adjust the layout for was the electrical box and the pressure tank for the well. originally my staging yard was going to be along the wall those items are on so I had to redesign to move them out a yard from that wall. A minor inconvenience. I also didn't take into account the duct work which goes down the middle of the basement. My branchline peninsula passes right under it and naturally that is the highest point on the layout so the overhead clearance is less than I would have liked. Also the geothermal system has two pipes which come in on one side and then run up the wall so I had to bow the backdrop around those. These problems proved to be nothing more than speed bumps that had to be negotiated.
One thing I do have is generous aisles with just a few short choke points. I designed it for lone wolf operation although a small club (6-8 operators) could work comfortably on it. I didn't allow space for a crew lounge or a dispatcher although if I ever do get an operating crew, I'm sure we could find a way to squeeze the latter in. There is also no restroom on the basement level. That has proved to be a bit of a bother due to my enlarged prostate.
There is no duck under required although I incorporated one under the peninsula. I'm not sure how much I will use it when I commence full operations. It will come down to whether I would rather duck under the peninsula or walk around it if I want to get to the other side.
I began with fluorescent shop lights for layout lighting but I am gradually switching to LED flood lights, 1100 lumens. I use inexpensive utility lights with spring clamps to hold them in place. I attach them to the joists and hold them in place with a single screw to make sure they can't detach. Three of those will replace two shop light fixtures and they provide plenty of light and never start to flicker. Eventually I want all LEDs.
BRAKIE I sold my Athearn BB,Roundhouse and other unwanted models and going with my higher tier models
I am kind of doing the same thing. I went through and eliminated over half the freight car fleet, all the passenger car fleet, and all but two of the painted locmotives. This is not as drastic as you might think. I probably only lost 20 freight cars, 4 passenger cars, and 4 locomotives. Oh yeah... all non-brass cabooses are gone too.
I am working on a fleet of 150 freight cars, 30 pieces of passenger and express equipment, and 42 locomotives. All I need to purchase are 3 more locomotives, and I will have it all!
The painting and detailing is all much improved this time around. I have the right equipment and I have honed my skills.
It is nice to have a well thought out plan for once.
The only thing I'd do different would be the size of the layout which I would double.
If I were to start over, I would make an around the wall layout with "dogbone" ends and a peninsula in the center.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
My current layout is based on the same theme as my very first layout built during my early high school years; of course back then, my theme was pretty vague, limited to a coal hauler in NE PA with a freelanced name.
Over the years I tweaked the theme to be a "tipple-to-tidewater" route and fixed the time period to 1910. While I re-focused my roster acquisition and interim layout designs toyed with moving the tidewater location around (Great Lakes vs. the Hudson River), I stayed on track with the original theme.
Some may attribute this to good long term planning, but there is a rumor that those four scratchbuilt wooden passenger cars I built in the '70s with the 19 character RR name applied with dry transfers, letter-by-letter, simply put too much skin in the game to change!
Jim
Wow. I read this whole thread. It spoke to me. I guess I'm blessed because I am starting over after 35 years from the last time I did model railroading. I got to rest though from a long work day remodeling. Remodeling is quite a bit different from enjoyable modeling. Heavy day tomorrow back to remodeling.
I can say one thing. If the low-profile steam locomotives from the turn of the century make you happy put them on your layout and run them, enjoy them. Life is short.
The Railroad workers and retirees from the Union Pacific restored the Challenger the only running steam engine of its kind left in the world from give or take 70 years ago.
I really admire the one poster on these forums that quotes my railroad my rules. Agreed I'm sure of it, he has the right idea
Maybe someone on your railroad organized a group to restore an old turn-of-the-century locomotive that was found in a Roundhouse on someone else's land sold off by the railroad years ago and was nicely preserved. The same retirees take turns operating that steam engine pulling more modern cars not from that era and they sure are proud of it. Just like the restored Challenger that came through Shakopee Minnesota in 2008. 70 years later like a ghost.
Guess what ? It happened. It was and is completely prototypical.
Enjoy life take it easy and don't sweat the small stuff !
My father designed and built my benchwork to bolt together in manageable sections that can theoretically be moved to another house when the time comes. He was here, also, when I laid out the track.
I can sawcut the foam top, and separate the sections...this thread has me looking forward to the day when I redo the layout.
Hello all,
Given the chance to start over...
I would go DCC right off the bat!
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
when i was younger,7 to be exact,i just bought whatever i wanted.i had a ATSF geep and a PRR K4 running on the same 4x8.But when i was 11 i modeld the Seaboard Coast Line in the late 60s-early70s.Now i model n scale. but if i would do anything again,i would have not let that buetiful K4 fall off the table.
When getting into the hobby, I would have picked the railroads and time period right away. I spent a lot of hard earned money in high school on items that I now would never include on a layout. I regret getting buy happy whenever I had the money when I should have been choosing wisely what to buy.
I have also considered changing scale so I could have more formthe space I have right now. I realized, though, that I have too much invested into HO.