Hello all,
.
The editorial in this month's model railroader was unexpectedly serious. The author wrote how difficult it was to help remove a model railroad layout after the builder has passed away and his family is left to deal with the layout and collection. Tony Koester wrote about this same topic in a recent Trains of Thought titled "Pulling the Plug".
I live in a town that is pretty much a retirement community. I have lived here since I was 13 years old. I was a founding member of the local model railroad club when I was 14. I have seen too many retired folks pass away and leave layouts behind. The author of the editorial said he was involved twice, I have seen this happen more than a dozen times. Removing the layout is always a heartbreaking task.
Let me give some advice when you start your last layout that your next of kin will need to deal with one day. You need to make this easy on them.
First: Please do not build you last layout at eye level. That always sounds nice, but three friends of mine ended up in wheel chairs for their last decade, and the railroad became useless. Your last layout should have a 36" wide door and aisles and controls and panels should be operable from a chair. Don't assume it will not happen to you. Also recess legs away from the edge to keep them from interfering with chair movement. If a chair becomes necessary, you will be glad you did this.
Second: Give your spouse or children clear instructions how to dispose of the layout. This should be as simple as "If I get run over by a bus tomorrow, call Jim and he will know how to remove the layout. Let him have all the stuff off it he wants except the brass locomotives. He knows where the boxes for those are and there are descriptions of them for you to use in the eBay auctions." Never give your heirs any false expectations for what your collection is worth. If you do, they will think the buyers are trying to rip them off. Be honest, most of our stuff is near worthless. If Jim is willing to carefully remove the layout for only what he can scavenge, that is a fair deal. Don't tell your spouse "don't take less than $600.00 for this brass USRA mountain locomotive." If no one is willing to pay that amount she will feel bad about the transaction. What can you really expect it to be sold for?
Third: Don't let your heirs think they should preserve the layout after your death. These are the most heartbreaking. Your wife probably likes the trains, she loves you, and she know how much you loved the trains. It is going to be very hard on her to get rid of the layout. It is going to be much harder on her if you ever said something like "after I am gone make sure the layout goes to a museum or club that wil keep it operating." These situations are exceptionally rare, and pretty much impossible if you did not arrange it before your death. Don't make your wife or children feel like they need to do this.
This is a serious topic. I hope no one ever has to deal with removing a layout when the family is ridden with guilt about it. Please consider these points.
Does anyone have anything else to add?
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I have nothing to add as you pretty much said everything I can think of, excellent topic and great suggestions.
" yes honey, these things will go for pennies on the dollar, except for these brass items, you"ll get a little more"
Have a friend sell your stuff off at a train show for your spouse, it will be difficult enough for her dealing with other things.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Kevin,
Yes, a very serious issue to deal with. I agree with you on almost everything you said.
I would add that the spouse shouldn't be in a hurry to dispose of everything. My past experience is she should wait for a while and just let the railroad sit if possible while she deals with more urgent problems. Hasty decisions made at the extreme height of her emotions often don't work well. Give it some time before starting to sell off, give away or donate the items. Be cautious of "friends" as I have seen them take advantage of a grieving widow.
The best advice I can offer is to make sure you have a written inventory that others can follow. Your family may not know an Overland WM H-8 from a Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo and the price difference can possibly be a house payment for her. Assume the person reading your inventory has no knowledge of trains and help them with an inventory number/sticker on each item. Keep boxes and number them too. Give specific written instructions like "give the passenger station in Big Falls to John Smith". That would be simple to find and make sure it was disposed of as he wished. Try to get a couple folks who you trust to help with the disposition. Unfortunately some shops and "friends" will take advantage of the situation. No one would want that to happen to their family or their layout so help things out by telling the family who they could trust and who shouldn't be allowed near the house.
I have seen friends underprice valuable brass items so they could afford them and steal from the family. I have also seen shops give 10¢ on the dollar too. Yes, they need to make a profit on sales but they should be honest and honorable in their dealings and often aren't.
I had a friend many years ago that had a large NG brass collection. His wife knew brass was worth more than plastic but that's about all she knew. He never took any brass home before a quick Floquil Engine Black spray job and he threw away all Westside, Balboa, etc boxes. When he died his "friends" took advantage of her knowing they were brass and offered her between $25-50 for $300-400 engines. Unfortunately she accepted and was denied their value and quite a lot of money she needed.
Anyway, as we age (I'll be 67 in 8 days) we need to think about what Neil and Kevin have pointed out. I'm building a new layout which I'm sure will be my last. I gave a lot of thought to some of these ideas when planning it and the reality has been hard to deal with some. I have kept an inventory of everything from Campbell figures up to brass Crowns. My wife is kept aware of the running, live inventory and she knows who to block from the door and who to trust when the day comes.
Personally it will take many more than 6 pallbearers as my instructions are all my beloved Western Maryland H-8's, K-2's and Potomacs are to go with me in the coffin! Not really!
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
My instructions are in my will. In outline:
I've discussed this with my wife and son, so they know which way to bounce the ball. If Steve moves into the house, he might keep the layout intact - but I wouldn't bet on it.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - for the forseeable future)
SeeYou190...This is a serious topic....
It can be, but doesn't have to be.
SeeYou190..... Does anyone have anything else to add?
Mine's going in a dumpster...trains, layout, the whole works. I won't need it, and no one here wants it. I got my money's worth out of it.
Wayne
There's always the option of downsizing the layout and the hoard of kits while you're alive, and you can have the fun of selling your stuff or giving it to friends.
Graham Line There's always the option of downsizing the layout and the hoard of kits while you're alive, and you can have the fun of selling your stuff or giving it to friends.
That may sound like fun to you, but I'm not one to "settle" for less just because I'm getting older.
Wayne is right, it matters not what happens to this stuff, I had my fun.
Do a search, this topic has also been beat to death on here, no pun intended.
I still don't see were it is any different than a thousand other things people own and leave behind.
Sheldon
I think we had a lengthy disscussion on this a couple of times in previous threads.
As I've stated in those past threads, the family can sell what they want, everything else just goes. I'm the only one in the family, and our circle of friends, that does modeling of any kind.
Mike.
My You Tube
The club I belong to had this happen to us this January. Our club president passed away. We as a club picked through what we wanted and paid for fairly(condition, make,etc) the rest was sold at our annual train show. We sold off his entire collection, and gave all the profits of his model train collection to his widow.
While I am only 25, I've already got a running inventory going. It just makes things easier to keep track of.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
Kevin,I always told my late wife to pull the buildings,cars,vehicles and locomotive off the ISL and take it to the curb. Sell everything to "Sam".Sam was a train show dealer I knew but,he's long time gone too.
Today,the orders still stand about the ISL and the higher tier models will go to my oldest Grandson since that's his modeling style and my other models will be sold to a dealer probably next month for a agreed four digit price..
I will use my higher tier models and that brings my collection to 63 cars and twelve locomotives.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Graham Line There's always the option of downsizing the layout and the hoard of kits while you're alive, and you can have the fun of selling your stuff or giving it to friends. That may sound like fun to you, but I'm not one to "settle" for less just because I'm getting older. Wayne is right, it matters not what happens to this stuff, I had my fun. Sheldon
I agree. I'm 70, about to move into a new home and start a new layout. I'll build it the way I want it. I continue to buy more stuff as it appeals to me.
If I wind up in wheelchair, then I'll build a new layout that accomodates that.
When I'm gone, my children and grandchildren can have what they want (my middle son is into 3 rail O gauge). The rest they can sell, donate, toss as they desire.
Paul
Sheldon and Paul,If I may give my person thought here.. I would rather they sell my stuff then toss it since I have spent a ton of money from my meager seven old west gun collection to video game system plus games. My high tier train stuff is covered and they can sell my other "toys" and split the cash.
Interesting and important topic. In '93 when my layout was in my original basement prior to two additions and Allen Keller finished first volume (#12) on layout, I was spent and needed a change. Since the layout was literally built into the basement room, selling it was not possible, but offereing it for sale with the house attached was an idea. I thought this was insanity but worth a try so in went the ads............."model railroad for sale ..comes with house. Please call for details." Within a few weeks I fielded the first call from a person who had the Keller video and was being transferred to this area from the midwest. He flew out here with his wife and loved the house and layout and wanted it, but bank would only approve loan for just the house. I did not want to hold note as he was in his late 20's and had held several jobs within a short time...to me, a substantial risk of defaulting on debt. Then came an offer from a local gent, then in his late 60's and coming out of a divorce. He would go my price, but I would have had to make considerable changes to suit his needs. I turned this down and then junked the idea of selling and opted for my first rather large addition.
Point: This avenue is possible, although quite rare. My advantage was the coverage in various media, but if layout is well done and photos and good description along with complete inventory and reasonable price.....Why not try?
Actually in 2003, a wealthy model rail made an offer to purchase everything for a quite fair price. But I just recently remarried, and built a second house that attached to original to Sandy's (wife #3 who understood this hobby) specs. I was also well into new expansion loving every minute of the construction.
Before tearing it down, and destroying something that was extremely dear to departed and part of his or her's legacy, try this avenue.................nothing to lose, but the low cost of a few ads.
HZ
BRAKIE Sheldon and Paul,If I may give my person thought here.. I would rather they sell my stuff then toss it since I have spent a ton of money from my meager seven old west gun collection to video game system plus games. My high tier train stuff is covered and they can sell my other "toys" and split the cash.
Larry, we all look at money differently. To me, money spend on model trains is no different than money spend on a vacation or dining out, no expectation of return.
So if the wife and the kids sell some of it fine, but life is too short to spend it planning for death.
ATLANTIC CENTRALSo if the wife and the kids sell some of it fine, but life is too short to spend it planning for death. Sheldon
True dat,but,after making a round trip to death's door back in '05 after having a massive heart attack and with a heart hitting four out of six cylinders makes me see things more clearly and how fragile life really is.
I still enjoy life and still buy goodies..
The article and the OP's (and others) comments are well taken. I'm 73 and began building my LAST layout in 2008. While I have 5 adult kids, and several grandchildren, no one has any real interest in the hobby or the layout - although they seem to appreciate what it is.
Lots of ways to look at the "final disposal".
If its within a few years, the BLI locos and passenger cars and turnouts and electronics will definitely bring in some bucks on Ebay. The rest of the cars and detail parts (autos) might go in bulk on Ebay. Sadly, the structures are just not suitable for shipping and they, along with the rest of the stuff, will end up in the trash. Dang, that hurts just thinking about it.
One never knows what tomorrow will bring, so I guess my only additional advice is to let a responsible loved one know what you feel can be done with the trains after you go to that depot in the sky..........
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
It is unfortunate to force a recent widow to have to make all these tough decisions about a layout and about the collection (and the tools, the library and so on and so on); making it worse is that there really are some vultures out there who boast openly about their "deals." (And yet in nature, vultures play a very important and valuable role and perhaps in the bigger picture the model railroad vultures do, too.) At the opposite extreme I suppose is the widow who insists the whole thing belongs in the Smithsonian because there is nothing like it in the world. That is an invitation to total paralysis. I know of some very sour situations involving widows and best friends who tried to be realistic with her.
But I'd just point out that it is also a burden on that "best friend" who is asked to step in and help make the decisions and dispose of stuff, which is where Neal was coming from with his editorial. One guy I know did this three times for three huge layouts and finally admitted he was suffering from "best friend fatigue." And now he himself is very ill and someone will have to step in and help his widow soon.
I do at least know that my entire layout is held together with bolts and wingnuts and that the longest piece of lumber should be 4 feet (David Barrow's domino system). It will still be a big job.
I have made it clear to my wife that the trains are worth pennies on the dollar (pay no attention to the price stickers on the boxes in other words), and that there might actually be more interest in my raw materials of spare parts, styrene, Plastruct, kitbash leftovers, wood, and my tools. I have also told her that the most valuable things (perhaps I should say "the least worthless things) in my collection are my books and my old maps.
I did take Neal's message to heart. I need to sit at a table at a swap meet and soon. I have decades worth of acquisitions that were intended for an earlier era layout that will never be built (by me).
Dave Nelson
PS If even Allen McClelland could not sell his house with the V&O in the basement, I am under no illusions about what will happen to mine.
The abbot has told me: When I go, the layout goes in the trash.
And that is where most of it belongs. But I will leave instructions on how my subway trains are built (Six car sets with draw bars) and what needs to be done to package them for sale (In four foot long mailing tubes).
Other equipment can be given away or sold at a garage sale.
Tortise switch machines have great value I have over 50 of them, even at five dollars each they will bring a nice sum. Just sell them by the lot.
Railroad of LION has relays all over the place, hundreds of them, the maintenance department can come and collect them, or they too can be sold in lots.
LEDs and custom built stations not worth salvage. Table not worth salvage.
But unfortunately the Abbot died before I did, esp. seeing as I am not dead yet. But it is the responsibility of each monk to make a list of the valuable things in his custody, otherwise they will go to the dumpster.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Wife knows that kids and grandkids get first pick what they dont want the club gets, what they dont want goes in the trash.
doctorwayne SeeYou190 ...This is a serious topic.... It can be, but doesn't have to be. SeeYou190 ..... Does anyone have anything else to add? Mine's going in a dumpster...trains, layout, the whole works. I won't need it, and no one here wants it. I got my money's worth out of it. Wayne
SeeYou190 ...This is a serious topic....
SeeYou190 ..... Does anyone have anything else to add?
This is how I regard my "stuff" (thanks, George...) as well. I have two grandsons and a nephew with some time at my layout, so they would be offered a few hours to make up their minds if they had a loco or other items in mind to keep for old time's sake. The layout can't practically be dismantled, as much as I build them to be. Fifty swings with an 8 lb sledge should take care of it, and all that would be needed is to patch a few holes in the drywall and paint over my hand-painted backdrop. Or, to continue with the sledge and remove the framed room from the double-wide garage entirely.
Like Doc Wayne, anything unclaimed after 48 hours goes to the dumpster. I got my jollies out of it, including researching, seeking, and acquiring it....something no hobbyist should be denied or should preclude herself from enjoying.
-Crandell
I am in the camp of "I don't care". Both my wife and I have donated our bodies to science when the time comes and we told the kids to just put what's left in the green bin.
Ideally, giving my stuff to a train nut kid that happens to be in the lower income group would make me happy. I see a lot of single moms at train shows trying to help their son(s) get things on the cheap. The next best thing is donating it to a club that will use it or sell it with the funds helping sustain the club and thus the hobby.
Depending on what part of the planet you live on, the money you make on selling this stuff is worth a lot or a waste of valuable time.
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it." --Mark Twain
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I discussed this with my wife a few years back when we're drawing up wills. Our cousin Adam B. is now 18 and has a train collection albeit Lionel of his own. He is free to take anything he wants from my HO and Lionel.
After him if nobody else wants it I would like it to be dissambled and anything left can go to the Temple and/or Project Hospitallity (a local charity) do with as they see fit. The rest can RIP in the dumpster.
Joe Staten Island West
Wayne,
I would buy some of your stuff...
I read the editorial, and just reading the title said much to me.
"Keeping your hobby hoard manageble".
Probably most of us accumulate much more stuff for our hobby than we will ever use. Neil has some thoughtful suggestions on how to reduce the accumulation and make it more manageable.
Using myself as an example, I have many trains and other items in storage that have not been used in years. Most likely, much of it never will.
So why not thin out the accumulation ?
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Heartland Division CB&Q I read the editorial, and just reading the title said much to me. "Keeping your hobby hoard manageble". Probably most of us accumulate much more stuff for our hobby than we will ever use. Neil has some thoughtful suggestions on how to reduce the accumulation and make it more manageable. Using myself as an example, I have many trains and other items in storage that have not been used in years. Most likely, much of it never will. So why not thin out the accumulation ?
I do have a number of yet to be built kits, but I am not a collector or a hoarder.
I don't have some old box of LIONEL or TYCO from my childhood, or a bunch of stuff that I would never put on the layout, or a bunch of stuff in some other scale I'm not active in, or a bunch of stuff outside the theme and era of my layout.
Why is this so? Because I never bought or owned such items in the first place.
I only buy items that fit the layout era and theme - I only buy what the layout will support operationally when it is fully complete from a trackage standpoint. I only buy structures with specific scene creation in mind.
So my hoard, no matter how big, is under control. It needs no thinning out.
There is seldom good economics to buying things your really don't need and selling them latter. So I decided in advance what I really needed and wanted, and what I could do without.
And again, trains are not the only thing I have that "someone" will have to deal with when I'm gone.........
Heartland Division CB&QProbably most of us accumulate much more stuff for our hobby than we will ever use. Neil has some thoughtful suggestions on how to reduce the accumulation and make it more manageable. Using myself as an example, I have many trains and other items in storage that have not been used in years. Most likely, much of it never will. So why not thin out the accumulation ?
That sounds reasonable.
But - there's always a but. What happens when interests/circumstances change. For example, a while back I developed a mild interest in Sn2 modeling. I have acquired a brass Forney in Sn2 and 4 Roundhouse HOn3 kits to modify into Sn2 (track gauge is the same). These aren't available anymore except on the secondary market if you can find them. So if I decide to add a little Sn2 to my layout, I have what I need.
It's why I keep all my HO and O - just in case I change from S. And why not, I have the space. I even occaisionally add HO and O when I come across something I like at a reasonable price. Eventually, I'll have a small display layout in those scales, if I live long enough. And if not, well I've had fun collecting them and building some of them as a change of pace from S.
This is a hobby, not everything has to be efficient and/or fit some master plan. At least for me, others enjoy working towards a master plan. And that's fine too, this is a hobby after all. Enjoy it however you want.
doctorwayne Mine's going in a dumpster...trains, layout, the whole works. I won't need it, and no one here wants it. I got my money's worth out of it. Wayne
Too bad. I love your steamers.
Gary
I've sold a few items that I don't need, but I haven't had much luck with some others. I resisted selling on eBay so far, but I may have to break down and list some items.
As an aside, I was showing off an Accurail car I had changed the underframe on and added brake rigging. One of my friends said, "Don't be an angry ghost." When I asked him what he meant, he said, "Don't be an angry ghost after you die and your wife sells it for 25 cents."
IRONROOSTER Heartland Division CB&Q Probably most of us accumulate much more stuff for our hobby than we will ever use. Neil has some thoughtful suggestions on how to reduce the accumulation and make it more manageable. Using myself as an example, I have many trains and other items in storage that have not been used in years. Most likely, much of it never will. So why not thin out the accumulation ? That sounds reasonable. But - there's always a but. What happens when interests/circumstances change. For example, a while back I developed a mild interest in Sn2 modeling. I have acquired a brass Forney in Sn2 and 4 Roundhouse HOn3 kits to modify into Sn2 (track gauge is the same). These aren't available anymore except on the secondary market if you can find them. So if I decide to add a little Sn2 to my layout, I have what I need. It's why I keep all my HO and O - just in case I change from S. And why not, I have the space. I even occaisionally add HO and O when I come across something I like at a reasonable price. Eventually, I'll have a small display layout in those scales, if I live long enough. And if not, well I've had fun collecting them and building some of them as a change of pace from S. This is a hobby, not everything has to be efficient and/or fit some master plan. At least for me, others enjoy working towards a master plan. And that's fine too, this is a hobby after all. Enjoy it however you want. Paul
Heartland Division CB&Q Probably most of us accumulate much more stuff for our hobby than we will ever use. Neil has some thoughtful suggestions on how to reduce the accumulation and make it more manageable. Using myself as an example, I have many trains and other items in storage that have not been used in years. Most likely, much of it never will. So why not thin out the accumulation ?
Paul, I agree completely, we should all do/buy/build/own whatever we can afford that makes us happy. I understand my "master plan" approach does not suit everyone. I just put it out there as counter view to those who would suggest that they know what I should be doing.
It seems so hypocritical,or at the the least disingenuous, in a hobby that is about owning and playjng with little toys, when some start preaching to others with some sort of "less is more" philosophy. How about we just sell them all now and sit around and dream about trains until we die?
My will leaves my trains to my son, if he does not want them fine. I have 1700 vinyl records, I'm not giving them up either.........
You know what I want now that I am older? Less busy body people to deal with..........and more time for model trains.
I think its possible that our spouse may have an emotional attachment to the trains and the layout more than us. If she sees it as something you devoted a lot of time to, simply throwing it in the trash may feel like she's throwing a part of you in the trash. That would be a hard burden for a spouse.
It may be important to know how she feels about the trains, if she strongly associates them with you, and help her deal with disposing them in a meaningful way. Leaving the family to simply cut it up and toss it out might add to the heart break. Some people are more emotional than others.
OTOH, if trains were viewed by your family members as something that took your time away from them, they may want to throw it all away the moment you pass.
To me, its similar to cleaning up after myself, and considering not leaving a burden for the family....if that's possible.
- Douglas