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What are your greatest obstacles in scratch building?

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What are your greatest obstacles in scratch building?
Posted by n2mopac on Monday, May 22, 2017 12:03 PM

I have been involved in a number of discussions about scratch building and kit bashing. I have found that a lot of modelers find these types of modeling intimidating so they never try. I am curious, what do you find to be your greatest obstacles, physical or mental, to jumping into scratch building or kit bashing model structures? 

Owner and superintendant of the N scale Texas Colorado & Western Railway, a protolanced representaion of the BNSF from Fort Worth, TX through Wichita Falls TX and into Colorado. 

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Posted by E-L man tom on Monday, May 22, 2017 12:51 PM

I actually have three obstacles to scratchbuilding: 1) deciding on what structure to put in a particular piece of real estate on my small layout and still make it look convincing; 2) deciding on the design if I don't have a particular prototype or model to refer to, as well as how I might modify it to fit the often limited space, and last but not least; 3) getting started, as I have many other projects to work on. Mainly right now my big priority is getting trains running again after reassembling my entire layout - - I'm very close to that at this time. Make no mistake about it though, I love to scratchbuild.

Tom Modeling the free-lanced Toledo Erie Central switching layout.
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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Monday, May 22, 2017 1:10 PM

  The greatest obstacle is building something without a plan, blueprints, or anything to go by except your imagination. Currently I am scratch building a mission style church for my layout. I would not attempt this except I discovered that there is a company that makes blueprint style plans for several California Mission structures because in the state of California school children are required to build one when studying state history. I went to grade school in Oregon and we studied The Oregon Trail instead.  Kids build these missions using old cardboard boxes but I decided to do it right and build mine with sheet styrene. Having plans made it easier because I knew exactly what I had to build. But I do make my own changes as I see fit.
  Kitbashing is easier because I am usually just cutting down the size of a building to fit in a smaller space.
  I do love scratch building interiors but every one is a challenge because it is truly unique to the structure. Every single interior I have built I could build again faster and easier and better if I were to do it again because I would know what mistakes I made and how to do it differently instead of starting from scratch.

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
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Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, May 22, 2017 1:17 PM

There are just so many great-looking kits out there, so little real estate on my layout, and only so many hours in a day.  I see each kit as only a starting point anyway, and I put custom interiors and lighting into most of them, so in a way even my kit structures have a certain amount of scratch-building to them.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Monday, May 22, 2017 1:24 PM

I have done scratchbuilding, cars and structures.

The biggest problem is identifying and getting scratch stuff - wood shapes, castings, strip wood, etc. - together for the project.  It's time consuming.  It's one of the reasons I favor kits - all the pieces are there ready to go.  And of course for S scale it's harder to find stuff and some things just aren't made, so you have to make your own - not a hard task, but it takes time.  And time is what's in short supply for me.

A good way to get started scratch building cars with wood is to build some LaBelle kits.  This is pretty much the same as scratchbuilding except someone else has gathered the parts together for you (and provided instructions). 

For a structure, start with something other than a laser kit.  Some of the laser kits are nice, but most of us don't have a laser for scratchbuilding. 

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, May 22, 2017 1:54 PM

I was one that was too intimidated to try for over 40 years.  I only had one problem and that was getting over the hump that I could actually scratch build something that would look good enough to use on my layout.  Using a Laser Kit as a go-by my first attempt turned out looking so good I really got into it.  Now it’s second nature.
 
The biggest help was my ability to make blueprints using my CAD.  Making full size drawings to use as patterns made all the difference in the World.
 
This is a link to my first scratch build project:
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by TheGamp on Monday, May 22, 2017 1:58 PM

Just by nature of the original question, I think you're going to get a lot more answers from folks who've already made the leap than those who haven't. 

For me, expense and distance vision. I wanted to be prototypically accurate for the building I'm currently doing, and my blueprint search took two overnight trips and eventually proved fruitless. The rest will be filled in from memory/imagination. And I use an optivisor, but haven't gotten the knack of propping things up to the proper height to focus properly without the need to contort into positions that prove painful later. 

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Posted by 7j43k on Monday, May 22, 2017 3:01 PM

I don't recall any obstacles in scrathbuilding.  Problems to solve, yes.

My first scratchbuilding project was a model of a pile driving car from plans in RMC. It was in O scale, because I was doing Lionel at the time.  I was 16.

One of the things that minimized fear was that almost every month, Model Railroader would show some incredible piece of model building.  Seeing that other people were doing such grand things, I figured I could try a lesser grand thing.

By the way, it wasn't very good.

I did another one in HO when I was 19.  It was much better.  It was "pretty good".  But I eventually scrapped it, too.

 

My advice to people who feel there's a hurdle to be overcome, is to start with something pretty easy, but that you also care about.

And never give up.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by dknelson on Monday, May 22, 2017 6:42 PM

The biggest obstacle for me is where I have photos, and perhaps some basic measurements, but no drawings or plan.  While some guys can just start cutting and things seem to turn out OK, I need something concrete that I can follow, and I am not much of a draftsman, alas.  

Dave Nelson

 

 

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Posted by UNCLEBUTCH on Monday, May 22, 2017 6:54 PM

Almost all my biuldings are scratchbuilt.I have yet to use a plan,some were inspired by pictures. My biggest problem is: how big to build it.If too small they don't look right, and too big, I'm useing up real estate. For me its hard to get that compressed size.

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Posted by CSX_road_slug on Monday, May 22, 2017 8:54 PM

n2mopac
...what do you find to be your greatest obstacles, physical or mental, to jumping into scratch building or kit bashing model structures? 

Modeling structures that are not perfectly rectangular or cylindrical, but tapered -  like the main body of a blast furnace.  I spent more time, and did more trial-and-error experimentation, on that than I did on any other part of the structure. 

-Ken in Maryland  (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)

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Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, May 22, 2017 9:13 PM

I haven't used any plans, or drawings, and never intend on doing so, and no problems getting started.  I mocked up, with cardboard and hot glue,  what I needed to fit the space I had, and just went to work, using DPM parts, Walthers parts, cardboard, wood, plastic sheets, etc., whatever I need to accomplish the look I wanted.

Maybe all my live spent in the building trades, and the common sense of being raised on farms, along with all of the great modeling I've seen, had a hand.

I also did a lot of searching, using pictures, and a bunch of research on various details.

I have stacks of kits I've bought, some never opened, some robbed for parts.

Mike.

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, May 22, 2017 10:40 PM

Currently my biggest obstacle to scratch building structures is that I have already built the ones I need. I may do one or two over again to correct some deficiencies, but given the three foot rule, I'm likely the only one who would notice the difference between what I have already done and what I would do in the rebuilds anyhow. I will admit that I am stuck on finishing several projects. It's mostly paint, lighting and detailing that are required.

As far as scratch building rolling stock, my biggest obstacle is that I already have too much on the go. Again, painting and detailing seem to be holding me back from finishing some of them. However, that didn't stop me from recently buying several older Stanton and Tenshodo Spud drive systems and donor locomotives so I can make more!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 12:54 AM

The only obstacle that I can think of is time...or more specifically, the lack of it.  I keep taking on projects for friends, and as a result, my own have languished, sometime for years, at a time when years themselves may be getting short in supply.

Wayne

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Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 4:09 AM

doctorwayne

The only obstacle that I can think of is time...or more specifically, the lack of it.  I keep taking on projects for friends, and as a result, my own have languished, sometime for years, at a time when years themselves may be getting short in supply.

Wayne

 

I'll have to agree with Wayne 100%......

BTW: Wayne, that Bridge that I am working on is really taking the time. More so, for I am such a stickler for detail and get carried away.....LOL

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

EDIT: A little peek for others as to My project. It's about 75% completed. No models of this particular bridge are in existance......but there are real ones still in use today. Scherzer double track Rolling Lift Bridge. The full size plans:

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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 4:13 AM

My biggest obstacle is interest since there is so many excellent  industrial kits available from Walthers. My last kitbash was for a club 15 years ago and all I used was Pikestuff walls,roof,three entrance doors and 6 loading doors(4 truck/two rail). I didn't even find the need to use my HO ruler since I knew I had 22" x  9" to fill so I used the club's 24" draftsman ruler. My finish building was 16" x  9"  with 6" used for a  dock pad area.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by "JaBear" on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 4:47 AM
While I never had any formal training on technical drawing, I’ve done enough, for w**K, over the years to be competent, and actually enjoy the challenges of drawing up plans off a photo, or photos, measurements are helpful if available, and as with actual measurements, the more photos the better.
 
But, and it may be just the projects I undertake, there invariably is information, written or photographic, which even after diligent searching on Google, or asking the Forum, is unavailable.
 
In these cases, I would like to think that I’ve filled I the blanks by making an educated/ logical guess, and also take the view as the prototype no longer exists, it’s highly unlikely that there is anyone with first hand knowledge to tell me I’m wrong.
 
The trouble starts when during the build when I start second guessing my guesses, which inevitably leads to progress slowing down and even stopping, until I get over it and get back into the project.
 
So, I reckon my biggest obstacle is myself.
 
I also dislike having to make duplicates of small detail parts!!!
 
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by mlehman on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 6:03 AM

I reckon my biggest obstacle is myself.

True words.

I could be fecetious and say there are no obstacles, only opportunities. But there are lots of small obstacles that do create friction. I often time find it hard to get a suitable material readily. You could always order and wait. But I often am too impatient, so will take a shortcut just to gert on with it. It's often good enough, not like there's not plenty else to do. If you do end up with a rather bad ount, well, there's always the chancd to get a better result the next go round.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 7:23 AM

I had a lot of the same and similar thoughts last night as the posts that were made late last night and this morning.  My biggest obstacle in scratch building stems from a saying in remodeling.  " hindsight is your truest sight".  Part way through the build I always see something I could have done better or  nit picky imperfections I want to take too much time to correct.  I am getting better at realizing the difference between perfectionism and anal retentiveness.  Perfectionism is a good quality to have to get a job well done.  Extreme perfectionism only makes me stumble and take longer to finish what I'm doing.  In the end the creator of thier project is the only one that knows and see's his little deficiencies.  Unless of course I'm silly enough to tell somebody.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 9:15 AM
  1. Lack of tools needed
  2. Lack of workplace which can be messed up
  3. Lack of skills needed
  4. Ill health

 

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Posted by dragonriversteel on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 9:26 AM

Biggest obstacle personally. Vision. My vision is horrible but still manage to build HO models. Just finished up a HO Liebherr 974B wheeled material handler after a year working on it. It's home will be working in my scrap yard. It's not prototypical nor is it perfect. 

Like others have said. Scratch building is waiting on parts or making them yourself. Had to scratch build wheels for my liebherr 974B. You don't have to have all the tools to build something. 

The first tool you need is your imagination. 

The second I recommend. A Dremel or other motor tool. Mine has paid for itself over & over.

Do your homework on the prototype you wish to build. 

Measure twice, cut once,test fit before glue.

You are going to mess something up at some point. Don't be to hard on yourself, don't quit,take a breath and try again. The end result of your build is worth it.

 

 

Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb

Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.

Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 9:37 AM

I should have started my first post off with "Me" as the biggest obstacle, but once I get going, I'm on it.

Vision is also an obstacle with me,  so the Optivisor I bought, with extra lenses and been a huge help.  I also used it yesterday to rebuild two small engine carberators.

Mike.

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 12:49 PM

I'm lazy.

 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 1:42 PM

Sir Madog
  1. Lack of tools needed
  2. Lack of workplace which can be messed up
  3. Lack of skills needed
  4. Ill health

 

 

Ulrich.    With all due respect I would have to disagree with your number (3. lack of skills needed).  I find it confusing that you feel that way.   I've seen pictures of your layout and it seems evident to me you don't lack any skills what-so-ever

                              Take care

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Posted by Renegade1c on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 2:26 PM

My biggest obstacle is time. it has improved since I took a desk job and i have been able to seriously work on things. I think my next project will be building flat for a paper company. 

Some structures I wing it, other I have drawn up in CAD before building them. Here is one such structure I designed in CAD first.

I did use a Walter overhead cram on the front but the rest is scatchbuilt


Colorado Front Range Railroad: 
http://www.coloradofrontrangerr.com/

flag

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Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 2:49 PM

I use to fly model airplanes. At first, it was line control and when I got my drivers license it was R/C.  I built a few kits and eventually started building R/C planes of my own design after I saw how they should go together from building the kits I had done. I was extremely proud of the last couple I built as they were great performers in combat flying.

Because I had a good assortment of tools for hobby work, the transition back to trains was easier than it could have been. I had the Dremel drill press and various cutting tools so I was off to the races.

I built some craftsman kits and once I saw how those went together, I am not sure I will by another structure kit as they are pretty straight forward and paying big bucks for a few sticks of wood just doesn't make sense any longer. I have three Labelle kits to get me started on rolling stock kits, but there again having seen the parts in the box, I have done my learning with those as well.

Health has come into play as I was always a "lets get'er done" kind of guy. I found out that even putting one or two pieces on a project a day can give you something significant to show in a month. 

 Life is full of obstacles, so have a cup of tea, study the situation and then get up and deal with them and take what you learned along with you.

 

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by Geomaticsdude on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 4:42 PM

In my limited experience scratch building takes a LOT more time to design and build than it does to slap together a laser kit, especially if you want all the little details. On the other hand I take MUCH greater pride in designing and building my own kit than I do building somebody else's kit, even if the results are modest.

Since I'm into small ON30, I plan to scratch build much of my stuff, partly because the limited number of commercial O-scale structures are usually way too large for small layouts and they can be quite expensive, if nicely detailed. Since I'm not a rivet counter and just go with what "looks good", scratch building works for me.

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Posted by hornblower on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 4:55 PM

I think the biggest obstacles are lack of imagination, choice of modeling materials (wood, styrene, card stock, etc.), and just deciding to go for it!

I model Southern California, an area subject to frequent ground movement (earthquakes).  This, in turn, means few brick structures since they tend to fall down in earthquakes.  Since most available structure kits simulate brick structures, they aren't very useful for my layout.  I also needed to model several unique, key structures to make it easier for layout visitors to recognize locations on my layout. Thus, I have done a lot of scratch building.  

My favorite modeling material is styrene although I have also used cardstock, wood and foamcore board.

I get many of my structure ideas from searching Google Maps Street View for old "survivor" buildings in the areas I'm trying to model.  I print out building facades I like, then develop plans using an architectural CAD program (although a CAD program is not necessary).  If I am concerned about whether the building dimensions and proportions will work in the spot I plan to install the model, I will print the drawing out on cardstock then cut, fold, and tape it together to create a mock-up to place on the layout. When satisfied with the design, I will go ahead and build the model in whatever material I deem most appropriate.  

Try something simple like a shack or small cottage for your first project.  Once you've successfully completed a few simple scratchbuilds, you'll be ready to move on to bigger and more complex models.  Before long, you'll likely wonder why you ever spent so much money on kits when scratchbuilding is SSSOOOOooooo much cheaper.  I can purchase a 4' by 8' sheet of 0.040" white styrene for around $20.  I also bought the two window and door casting assortments from Tichy and I was ready to build lots of structures.  How many structures do you think you could build from a 4' by 8' sheet of styrene?  How much money would you spend for a similar amount of kits?  

Hornblower

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Posted by dragonriversteel on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 7:37 PM

 Hornblower

 Would you be ever so kind as to tell the forum. Where you get a 4'x8' 0.040 styrene sheet for twenty bucks ?

I'd buy that in a heartbeat. Build with a lot of styrene. Love the stuff.

 

Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb

Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.

Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.

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Posted by dknelson on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 8:53 PM

large sheets of styrene are surprisingly inexpensive, if a bit awkward to deal with.  

https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=22883

If you go to a place that makes plastic signs they might even give you sheets of "mistakes/typos/misprints" styrene for free.

Dave Nelson

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