BRAKIE Jim,As far as I a concern those was the good old days being a teenager raised in a railroad family and surrounded by 5 major railroads
Jim,As far as I a concern those was the good old days being a teenager raised in a railroad family and surrounded by 5 major railroads
Railfanning is a TOTALLY different deal and duh, for sure I wish I could jump in a time machine and railfan 1970's!
and around 15 hobby shops..
Ah yes, but what you could buy in those hobby shops, thats the rub vs. today! I stand by that one 100% Now where is my Staples Button. =P
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 BRAKIE Jim,As far as I a concern those was the good old days being a teenager raised in a railroad family and surrounded by 5 major railroads Railfanning is a TOTALLY different deal and duh, for sure I wish I could jump in a time machine and railfan 1970's! and around 15 hobby shops.. Ah yes, but what you could buy in those hobby shops, thats the rub vs. today! I stand by that one 100% Now where is my Staples Button. =P
OK, the products were not like today, but what there was, you could actually buy almost anytime you wanted it.
No waiting, no vapor ware, no preorders........
But, the hobby was different then, it was much more about building stuff yourself, kit bashing, etc.
This whole idea of "out of the box RTR perfection" simply did not exist. You can't miss what you have never had.......
Sheldon
As someone new to the hobby it's much nicer to be able to see things in person and pick them up than to have to buy everything online. There are two stores I've been to within an hour's drive. I get that ready-to-run is their bread and butter, but the owner of the store with the smaller inventory has been very encouraging to my DIY approach and has talked me out of buying things that wouldn't further my interest. The larger store's staff couldn't be bothered to do any more than unlock the case with the trucks and couplers for me to look at before leaving to tag-team hard sell a young couple on a RTR sound-and-smoke-equipped steam loco. Guess they don't need my business.
Athearn was notorious for long waits between production runs in the 70s and 80s, the same with Atlas locomotives.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL OK, the products were not like today, but what there was, you could actually buy almost anytime you wanted it.
Well, you could buy from a very small selection locally back then or now using the internet order a much wider variety of products. Yes, I realize the current generation is an instant gratification people, but if you don't mind waiting around 4 days or so, that wide variety of items is delivered to your door.
I'd gladly wait a few days to get 50x the products offered today than get it "now" and only have a small selection - most of it generic.
Now that you jogged my memory, I remember vaporware back in the 1980's it was quite popular; not so much now - 'cept maybe Walthers which is famous for canceling announcements.
Great of course if you had the skill and copious amounts of time. If your skill wasn't so hot well I guess sucks to be one of those. An exclusive hobby isn't necessarily a good thing - and what I mean by that are the relatively few that have the "chops" to built detailed models yourself.
This whole idea of "out of the box RTR perfection" simply did not exist. You can't miss what you have never had....... Sheldon
You make it sound like a good thing. Ah, but now that I have had the good stuff, I would miss it.
Look, I'm oldish but I know a good thing when I see it and I'll argue till the cows come home that what we have now, with all it's warts and vagaries, is the best of all worlds, detailed RTR stuff and plenty of kits and everything in between. Honestly, I can't see what is bad about that and I'm a reasonable person.
azrail Athearn was notorious for long waits between production runs in the 70s and 80s, the same with Atlas locomotives.
That's a matter of perspective and subject to specific items. I worked in two shops from 1970 until 1982, and most of the Athearn line was pretty readily available. The second half of that time, in store#2, I managed the train department and did the buying, we had a nice stock of Athearn.
Later in the eighties, the economy slowed, and production runs were spotty at times. But overall, product availablity was good.
TheGamp As someone new to the hobby it's much nicer to be able to see things in person and pick them up than to have to buy everything online.
As someone new to the hobby it's much nicer to be able to see things in person and pick them up than to have to buy everything online.
Go to Moloco, ExactRail, Tangent, Athearn, Intermountain websites and you can see models in large hi-res photo's well lit - I'd argue you'd need reading glasses and good light to see those same items at that hobby shop - wait, I don't have a hobby shop to go see those items. Good thing we have the internet these days.
Look, I know the older generation misses the hobby shop yada yada, but the younger generation works with computers, tablets, smart phones and any company or business will tell you they put the lions share of their advertising money at the young fold between the ages of teens thru 30's. Thats where the major business is and that generation uses websites and buys on-line. And, older folks like me who have adapted also buy online. It's pretty much the way it's going to be as far as I can see.
riogrande5761 ATLANTIC CENTRAL OK, the products were not like today, but what there was, you could actually buy almost anytime you wanted it. Well, you could buy from a very small selection locally back then or now using the internet order a much wider variety of products. Yes, I realize the current generation is an instant gratification people, but if you don't mind waiting around 4 days or so, that wide variety of items is delivered to your door. No waiting, no vapor ware, no preorders........ I'd gladly wait a few days to get 50x the products offered today than get it "now" and only have a small selection - most of it generic. Now that you jogged my memory, I remember vaporware back in the 1980's it was quite popular; not so much now - 'cept maybe Walthers which is famous for canceling announcements. But, the hobby was different then, it was much more about building stuff yourself, kit bashing, etc. Great of course if you had the skill and copious amounts of time. If your skill wasn't so hot well I guess sucks to be one of those. An exclusive hobby isn't necessarily a good thing - and what I mean by that are the relatively few that have the "chops" to built detailed models yourself. This whole idea of "out of the box RTR perfection" simply did not exist. You can't miss what you have never had....... Sheldon You make it sound like a good thing. Ah, but now that I have had, I would miss it. Look, I'm oldish but I know a good thing when I see it and I'll argue till the cows come home that what we have now, with all it's warts and vagaries, is the best of all worlds, detailed RTR stuff and plenty of kits and everything in between. Honestly, I can't see what is bad about that and I'm a reasonable person.
You make it sound like a good thing. Ah, but now that I have had, I would miss it.
Jim, I don't disagree with any of that. And at my position in the hobby, I can take fullest advantage, since I don't need the "support" that many people miss from the local shop.
In my old guy view, it is better today in some ways, and worse in other ways.
And, since I am a self involved introvert, I'm not real invested one way or the other in that issue of other peoples ability or inability to build models.......I can, so I do.
If the industry meets those needs, and it helps my modeling fine.
But I'm not in the version of this hobby that requires that every freight car be a blueprint perfect RTR model that costs $50.
I have few, but their existance does not define the hobby for me.
So lots of that "stuff" from back in the day still runs on my layout, and will to the end.
Understand, I have a lot of prototype knowledge, I have been studying trains and building models since age 10, 50 years come May. An I once started to become the ultimate rivet counter.........and trains stopped being fun.
So I found the balance that makes it fun for me.
But the really great shops back in the day, were really cool places. Because it was all right there. Some of the best shops had incredable inventories.....you could actually touch them....
I'm with Jim on this one. These are the good old days.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
riogrande5761Go to Moloco, ExactRail, Tangent, Athearn, Intermountain websites and you can see models in large hi-res photo's well lit - I'd argue you'd need reading glasses and good light to see those same items at that hobby shop - wait, I don't have a hobby shop to go see those items. Good thing we have the internet these days.
Jim,A photoshop enhanced photo of a perfect model may not match want you may end up with. You've read the complaints as same as I and know very few brands has escaped scrutiny of the modelers including some of the brands you named..I have no doubts the forth coming ST SD40-2 will catch some ire from the modelers.
With today's preorders you may not see the model for 2-3 years or it may be canceled.
Alco Models,Trains Inc and Hallmark released brass diesels every month as did other brass manufactuers...See it in the current MR buy at your LHS today. Same for Athearn's SW7(called SW1500) or any new Athearn product.
And for the record I was mail ordering long before the raise of the internet and when it arrived I readily accepted on line shopping due to a lack of a LHS.
And Jim my long time friend..Be careful who you call old folk because if memory serves you're not exactly a spring chicken yourself.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
The LHS i go to is 70 miles away and i support it and shop MB Klines also.
Russell
BRAKIE my long time friend..Be careful who you call old folk because if memory serves you're not exactly a spring chicken yourself.
BRAKIE olson185 Is there a reason a train store would not automize their ordering system for quick delivery of customer orders? Do free in-house 'how-to' workshops not have a positive impact? Is it too much to ask for a train store to have well-labelled display samples? Maybe. There was at one time you see, some of the bigger and better off shops did just that-except you called ahead and placed your. A monthly clinic was common and once or twice a year there was model contest. Then came the newer style of hobby shop owner that ended a lot of LHS traditions.
olson185 Is there a reason a train store would not automize their ordering system for quick delivery of customer orders? Do free in-house 'how-to' workshops not have a positive impact? Is it too much to ask for a train store to have well-labelled display samples? Maybe.
There was at one time you see, some of the bigger and better off shops did just that-except you called ahead and placed your.
A monthly clinic was common and once or twice a year there was model contest.
Then came the newer style of hobby shop owner that ended a lot of LHS traditions.
Thanks. I was wondering if any LHS's were known to conduct "how-to's". I didn't know if any train store had. I've know book/game stores to sponsor D&D, Magic The Gathering, or boardgame nights. Michael's Crafts, HD, and Lowe's conducts some sort of weekly workshop. If nothing else, it's one way to meet like-minded people while the store highlights some product they sell.
"...for sure I wish I could jump in a time machine and railfan 1970's!"
I've thought that quite a few times in the last few weeks. I'd be one of the only railfanners who'd be more interested in the infrastructure (trackage, signage, industry bldgs., etc.) than the train.
riogrande5761 Look, I know the older generation misses the hobby shop yada yada, but the younger generation works with computers, tablets, smart phones and any company or business will tell you they put the lions share of their advertising money at the young fold between the ages of teens thru 30's. Thats where the major business is and that generation uses websites and buys on-line. And, older folks like me who have adapted also buy online. It's pretty much the way it's going to be as far as I can see.
BRAKIE Jim,A photoshop enhanced photo of a perfect model may not match want you may end up with.
Jim,A photoshop enhanced photo of a perfect model may not match want you may end up with.
Larry, So you are saying what we are seeing in the photo's are not representative of what we are buying? Thats a bit cynical and it also might be accusing model makers of doing something dodgy.
You've read the complaints as same as I and know very few brands has escaped scrutiny of the modelers including some of the brands you named..I have no doubts the forth coming ST SD40-2 will catch some ire from the modelers.
Of course QAQC issues are always present, and then you can do what I'm doing today, returning a model for another. Sometimes you have to.
Lets see, with ExactRail, Moloco and Tangent, when the models are announced, they can be bought - no vaporware. Athearn's lead time from announcement to hobby shop is roughly 12 months. Those are my main sources.
Intermountain is a bit all over the map - with rolling stock its about a year, engines well ...
Careful? hah hah. I'm referring to the people who behave old. Nuff said.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL In my old guy view, it is better today in some ways, and worse in other ways.
Worse in what ways? Detail parts are getting harder to find. Prices are quite high, although the hobby has never been cheap. What else is there?
Right and thats fine. But there are those who wish they could wave a magic wand and go back to 20-30 years ago, or more, and build everything. That's not a good thing for those who don't have time or skills to do what you do. It's easy for those who do, to wish for those days. For those who don't have the time or skills or both, they are glad for today.
But I'm not in the version of this hobby that requires that every freight car be a blueprint perfect RTR model that costs $50. I have few, but their existance does not define the hobby for me.
It doesn't define the hobby for me either, but it does enhance it. I have to say back when I lived in northern California and I saw trains go by, it sure is nice to be able to buy box cars that ACTUALLY look like those box cars, and engines that look like those engines, and cabooses, ditto. Before about 15 years ago, that largely wasn't possible. I don't know, maybe it isn't like that for east coast modelers?
But the really great shops back in the day, were really cool places. Because it was all right there. Some of the best shops had incredable inventories.....you could actually touch them.... Sheldon
I remember them and what they had. But I still prefer today when I can buy an F-70-43 bulkhead flat car that was bread and butter for carrying lumber out of the Pacific northwest. I can think of example after example that just didn't exist back "in the day"
maxman BRAKIE Shoot! I forgot to mention I had to ride my Schwinn bike uphill in pouring down rain to get to my favorite LHS .Smile, Wink & Grin Was that uphill both ways, or just in one direction?
BRAKIE Shoot! I forgot to mention I had to ride my Schwinn bike uphill in pouring down rain to get to my favorite LHS .Smile, Wink & Grin
Was that uphill both ways, or just in one direction?
This hobby is so cold I got the sniffles.....
Had the greatest time ever at the narrow gauge show in Houston, have a great time in all the local shows I visit down here, but maybe its cause we are in the sun belt.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Geared Steammaybe its cause we are in the sun belt
Sun? Sun? What sun? Oh you mean that orange thing up in the sky? I think I might have seen that today.
riogrande5761 I have to say back when I lived in northern California and I saw trains go by, it sure is nice to be able to buy box cars that ACTUALLY look like those box cars, and engines that look like those engines, and cabooses, ditto. Before about 15 years ago, that largely wasn't possible. I don't know, maybe it isn't like that for east coast modelers? I remember them and what they had. But I still prefer today when I can buy an F-70-43 bulkhead flat car that was bread and butter for carrying lumber out of the Pacific northwest. I can think of example after example that just didn't exist back "in the day"
I have to say back when I lived in northern California and I saw trains go by, it sure is nice to be able to buy box cars that ACTUALLY look like those box cars, and engines that look like those engines, and cabooses, ditto. Before about 15 years ago, that largely wasn't possible. I don't know, maybe it isn't like that for east coast modelers?
These comments beg a question. If manufacturers didn't make models that looked like the prototype, what were they making....and why did they make cars and locomotives look the way they did?
They can tool a model to look perfect...or not....Why did they choose not too?
Maybe modelers demanded more generic items and not "accurate" products. I don't know, I'm asking. Why is there such a demand for prototype fidelity now compared to back in the day when it, apparently, wasn't so much of a concern?
- Douglas
DoughlessThese comments beg a question. If manufacturers didn't make models that looked like the prototype, what were they making....and why did they make cars and locomotives look the way they did? They can tool a model to look perfect...or not....Why did they choose not too? Maybe modelers demanded more generic items and not "accurate" products. I don't know, I'm asking. Why is there such a demand for prototype fidelity now compared to back in the day when it, apparently, wasn't so much of a concern?
I suspect that tooling was relatively more expensive back in the day. So you picked one boxcar and made a bunch of those decorated for every road whether it was 100% accurate or not.
Also, these days there is a lot more information available. And it's easier to get with the internet. So we know how accurate the manufacturer is.
Third, the hobby press really pushes museum level modeling. Look at the layouts covered today versus 40 or 50 years ago.
The hobby has changed. There's a lot more stuff available, but that makes it hard for a hobby shop to stock it all. And retailing in general has changed. Mom and Pop stores (which most hobby shops were) are disappearing.
Between big box and the internet, the small shop can't compete. Unless it offers something that big box and internet don't. Something that customers wil pay for, which is usually specialty/unique merchandise. Sure, we all want great service and extras like clinics, but what we pay for are cheap prices.
Paul
IRONROOSTERI suspect that tooling was relatively more expensive back in the day. So you picked one boxcar and made a bunch of those decorated for every road whether it was 100% accurate or not.
Today's tooling can cost up to $100,000 for one road specific detailed locomotive since you need various size short hoods and other specific detail.
In comparision a generic model cost less to make since one size fits all regardless how wrong it is--remember Athearn's Santa Fe caboose lettered for every road name they did a locomotive in? Then the same applied to the SP bay window caboose.Remember the PRR bay window caboose Athearn did?
I'm old enough to remember when all the department stores set up the Lionel trains every Christmas to run in the toy department.
I also remember SS Kresge and Woolworth when they were refered to as "the dime store".
Time marches on. Resistance is futile.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Doughless These comments beg a question. If manufacturers didn't make models that looked like the prototype, what were they making....and why did they make cars and locomotives look the way they did?
Probably most models back in the 1960's through 1980's were made to look like a particular piece of real rolling stock but since the cost of making molds was a very expensive endeavour in a low money world, the variety of model types was extremely limited and model train companies painted those few models for all manner of railroads than never owned them. The result was, most of the models you might buy didn't actually match anything in the real world.
By way of example, Athearn tooled an offset cupola plastic caboose of the Santa Fe RR and painted it for many other railroads that never owned it. Same with the later wide vision caboose - Athearn tooled it after a Rock Island wide vision caboose which was built on old box car frames, so it really is correct only for a particular series of Rock Island caboose but has been painted for umpteen other RR's.
As for generic freight cars which do not appear to be replica's of any real freight car, a number of the old Model Die Casting (Roundhouse) freight cars have been described by many over the years as not matching any real freight car - there are a number of box cars which I challenge you to find a photo of a real box car that matches. Same for some other MDC freight cars like one or more of the tank cars, although one of them is fairly close, alledgedly, to one type. Why did MDC do that? I'd like to know too as it makes no sense and has been a source of annoyance to many over the years.
Another easy answer - in a single word, cost. I don't think one set out to make an imperfect model on purpose - that would be daft. It was a matter of cost and technology and back then, the cost to offer models close to perfection was too high and essentially technologically infeasable.
As technology has improved and we have laser scanners and computer aided design and other machines, it's gotten easier and easier to tool a model that is closer to perfection than ever, although it's still a costly process to create tooling. The problem with reaching perfection is this pesky thing called human error, which tends to creep in here and there still and rail fans let the manufacturers know about it. What is the old saying? To err is human,
It's a fair question but I think I've addressed some of it. I think people back then probably did want accurate models, but they realized the times they were living this thing called reality, that they weren't going to get perfection or in most cases. Back in those days, the only way they could start to approach on a model.
Honestly, I doubt back then people "demanded" generic models, rather (as my wife's mother used to say) "you get what you are given".
Now I recognize there are quite a few people these days who are happy enough with generic models like those produced by Athearn, Accurail etc. Many say often they are pleased as punch to have those. Part of the reason is thats what they grew up with and have had for years and have long accepted that standard from the olden days as "good enough". But I also suspect cost is a big part of that acceptance and lets face it, it's cost has always been a big factor in this hobby so many don't want to spend 2 or 3 times, or more, the cost to get a freight car to that it looks like a real box car (for example) but rather they are willing to accept a box car that "looks like a typical box car" in a generic way, because it's cheap. Fair enough - everyone in the hobby ends up doing things on their own terms and their own budget.
riogrande5761 Doughless These comments beg a question. If manufacturers didn't make models that looked like the prototype, what were they making....and why did they make cars and locomotives look the way they did? Probably most models back in the 1960's through 1980's were made to look like a particular piece of real rolling stock but since the cost of making molds was a high cost endevor in a low money world so variety of model types was limited and model train companies painted those few models for all manner of railroads than never owned them. By way of example, Athearn tooled an offset cupola plastic caboose of the Santa Fe RR and painted it for many other railroads that never owned it. Same with the later wide vision caboose - Athearn tooled it after a Rock Island wide vision caboose which was built on old box car frames, so it really is correct only for a particular series of Rock Island caboose but has been painted for umpteen other RR's. As for generic freight cars which do not appear to be replica's of any real freight car, a number of the old Model Die Casting (Roundhouse) freight cars have been described by many over the years as not matching any real freight car - there are a number of box cars which I challenge you to find a photo of a real box car that matches. Same for some other MDC freight cars like one or more of the tank cars, although one of them is fairly close, alledgedly, to one type. Why did MDC do that? I'd like to know too as it makes no sense and has been a source of annoyance to many over the years. They can tool a model to look perfect...or not....Why did they choose not too? Another easy answer - in a single word, cost. As technology has improved and we have laser scanners and computer aided designe and fancy CNC machines, it's gotten easier and easier to tool a model thats closer to perfection than ever, although it's still a costly process to create tooling. The problem with reaching perfection is this pesky thing called human error, which tends to creep in here and there still and rail fans let the manufacturers know about it. Maybe modelers demanded more generic items and not "accurate" products. I don't know, I'm asking. Why is there such a demand for prototype fidelity now compared to back in the day when it, apparently, wasn't so much of a concern? It's a fair question but I think I've addressed some of it. I think people back then probably did want accurate models, but the realized the times they were living etc. and because there was this thing called harsh reality, that they weren't going to get perfection or in most cases the only way they could start to approach perfection was to do research, and spend many long hours themselves on a model. Honestly, I doubt people "demanded" generic models, rather (as my wife's mother used to say) "you get what you are given". Now I recognize there are quite a few people these days who are happy enough with generic models like those produced by Athearn, Accurail etc. Many say often they are pleased as punch to have those - but I suspect cost is a big part of that acceptance and lets face it, it's cost has always been a big factor in this hobby so many don't want to spend 2 or 3 times, or more, the cost to get a freight car to that it looks like a real box car (for example) but rather they are willing to accept a box car that "looks like a typical box car" in a generic way, because it's cheap. Fair enough - everyone in the hobby ends up doing things on their own terms and their own budget.
Probably most models back in the 1960's through 1980's were made to look like a particular piece of real rolling stock but since the cost of making molds was a high cost endevor in a low money world so variety of model types was limited and model train companies painted those few models for all manner of railroads than never owned them.
Another easy answer - in a single word, cost. As technology has improved and we have laser scanners and computer aided designe and fancy CNC machines, it's gotten easier and easier to tool a model thats closer to perfection than ever, although it's still a costly process to create tooling. The problem with reaching perfection is this pesky thing called human error, which tends to creep in here and there still and rail fans let the manufacturers know about it.
It's a fair question but I think I've addressed some of it. I think people back then probably did want accurate models, but the realized the times they were living etc. and because there was this thing called harsh reality, that they weren't going to get perfection or in most cases the only way they could start to approach perfection was to do research, and spend many long hours themselves on a model.
Honestly, I doubt people "demanded" generic models, rather (as my wife's mother used to say) "you get what you are given". Now I recognize there are quite a few people these days who are happy enough with generic models like those produced by Athearn, Accurail etc.
Many say often they are pleased as punch to have those - but I suspect cost is a big part of that acceptance and lets face it, it's cost has always been a big factor in this hobby so many don't want to spend 2 or 3 times, or more, the cost to get a freight car to that it looks like a real box car (for example) but rather they are willing to accept a box car that "looks like a typical box car" in a generic way, because it's cheap. Fair enough - everyone in the hobby ends up doing things on their own terms and their own budget.
I'm not sure I agree about some of this. When the term "not looking like" was used, I didn't think you were talking about fine details like grab irons, stirrups, ladders, paint color, etc. Those items were available back then. The detail parts were metal aftermarket products the manufacturers chose not to apply, apparently due to lack of demand, but rather chose molded on details. Today, they choose to apply the parts.
When you said "not looking like", I assumed you meant the dimensions of the car were wrong, like Athearns attempt at a GP30, or their GP9 and GP35 having to accomodate the wide motor. Athearns old steel handrails applied by the modeler are not that far off from modern day Delrin handrails, which have gotten a bit thicker recently in order to prevent them from warping (which isn't realistic at all).
I don't think it was the inability of the manufacturers to get the dimensions correct, or the inability to get the color exactly correct, or the inability to apply metal details; I think it was that the buying public just didn't care about prototype fidelity...per road name....that much. Why that is is anybody's guess.
But if "you get what you are given", a person could say that concept applies to why boxcars cost $30 and not $10, and why locos MSRP for $150 and not $50. I wouldn't say that, but to say that the buying public back in the day wanted highly detailed models they could buy RTR....complete with differences based on prototype.....but didn't get them because the manufacturers wanted hobbyists to buy something else cuts both ways.
And here's the thing, true technological advancement doesn't add to the cost of hobby products that much. Model railroading doesn't drive any advancement in anything, so things like the crisp painting we have now compared to the blurry pad printing would have made its way down to the hobby world after the technology was well paid for by other industrial uses. Better painting wouldn't have added that much cost to a Blue Box car or locomotive.
Doughless I think it was that the buying public just didn't care about prototype fidelity...per road name....that much. Why that is is anybody's guess.
Way back then the buying public was just happy that the stuff was being made.
Doughless I'm not sure I agree about some of this. When the term "not looking like" was used, I didn't think you were talking about fine details like grab irons, stirrups, ladders, paint color, etc.
As for generic freight cars which do not appear to be replica's of any real freight car, a number of the old Model Die Casting (Roundhouse) freight cars have been described by many over the years as not matching any real freight car
Last hobby shop of any size and helpful died over 30 years ago and I live in a very populated area, about 8 million. Still two hobby shops around of size but both owners can be unplesant (is that diplomatic enough).
rrebell Last hobby shop of any size and helpful died over 30 years ago and I live in a very populated area, about 8 million. Still two hobby shops around of size but both owners can be unplesant (is that diplomatic enough).
According to wiki based on a 2014 census estimate, the greater Washington DC metropolitan area has an estimated total population of 6,097,684 (making it the sixth-largest metropolitan area in the country and largest metropolitan area in the Census Bureau's Southeast region.)
At least on the west side of DC, I haven't found a "decent" train shop with a good selection of HO now in past 7 years. There was one shop I would have returned to to patronize down on the south-west side of the beltway that closed-up about 5 years ago. There are around 3 others that I am aware of that have only a tiny smattering of HO (one is big into large scale). I'm not into having them order stuff for me when I can do that myself and keep my costs a bit more in control.
The only LHS (if you want to call it that) I walk into now and buy stuff from is MB Klein, when I am in the neighborhood for the Timonium train show which is a mile or two away (which is next weekend BTW).
Like it or not, we are now largely in the age of online buying and model trains are no exception. As much as we hear the (post of the week) message lamenting the loss of hobby shops, it's part of the re-alignment of most genre's to modern day commerce model.
I see no reason to go to a hobby shop. There are a few in my area but when I can buy it cheaper online with a better selection There is no need to get in my car, using gas, fighting traffic to visit a hobby shop.
Besides I can sit on my favorite chair and shop for the items I want and in a few days they show up at the front door. Easy!