As I indicated in my post on the Genesis F3's, it is in the variabilities that are prevalent in each case that dominates your choice. Kato, Atlas China and Rapido are my demonstrated, by actual test, favorites. Others have demonstrated much larger variations than I would like. I am convenced that is why some rave while others cuss about a particular manufacturer.
You have to realize that in most cases, the drives for various models by a given manufacturer are nearly identical. A small drive length here, a minor chassis tweak there, etc. yes, some have experienced less than desirable motors, which they changed. That also seems to be a big factor in this discussion. There is very little documentation about this issue. While Atlas China have been very good, the recent change in supplier to Atlas may be a concern. Not much experience out yet to really know if that is or isn't a problem.
So many trains, so little time,
Larry
www.llxlocomotives.com
ggnlarsWhile Atlas China have been very good, the recent change in supplier to Atlas may be a concern. Not much experience out yet to really know if that is or isn't a problem.
If I may make a general observation?
And there lays the problem Internet fear mongering by "internet experts" that fears every change from the tried and true..
I heard the same fear mongering from follow club members and at the LHS when Atlas/Kato(a great team BTW) changed and went to China..Some had Atlas going out of business within five years while others boldly stated they won't buy any more Atlas with crappy Chinese drives.
Atlas hadn't released their first Chinese made engine and yet doom,gloom and hand wringing was the norm.
Even I was concerned at the time.
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
JohnWPowellI'm thinking family line/chessie era with diesels,
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I would think the best loco would be one what would hold its value and even appreciate.....that would be Brass
Which brass? Dunno it's beyond my wallet. Check out the videos on www.brasstrains.com
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
riogrande5761 JohnWPowell I'm thinking family line/chessie era with diesels, So here we have it folks, family line/chessie era with diesels. I'm not a family lines expert but Chessie covers most of the 1970's so GP40's and GP40-2's from Atlas and Athearn Genesis come to mind. The hard part for the OP is to filter this topic to eliminate all the off topic noise (i.e. stuff is out of scope for his interest) to find some good suggestions! Welcom to MR forums!
JohnWPowell I'm thinking family line/chessie era with diesels,
We have finally come down to the essentials. The Chessie System was absolutely lousy with GP40's and GP40-2's. There were a number of older GP9's, GP30's and GP35's. GE's and SD's were there in some numbers, but they didn't dominate. So you need to choose the best of those models, balancing the cost vs. the value. IMO, you probably won't go wrong with Atlas or Kato. See the comments of others for opinions on other makes.
Tom
ACYWe have finally come down to the essentials. The Chessie System was absolutely lousy with GP40's and GP40-2's.
Don't forget the GP38 since Chessie had a bunch as well as SD40s.
C&O still tons of GP7/9s on the roster in the 70s..
http://www.trainweb.org/chessiephotos/html/nojava.html
Thanks, Larry. I meant to include the 38's, but had a brain hiccup. Also a few GP15's.
Atlas, Athearn, Bachmann for GP38, GP40, etc...
Sd variants the same, adding in Intermountain. (Scaletrains as well, If there loco's are as good as their railcars anyways...)
Early GE's, and EMD's, you need either Atlas, Athearn, Bachmann. (If you can find them, Walther's, Bowser, and Intermountain as well.)
All have (or had) Chessie diesels.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Resurrecting this thread to update it for anyone out there looking for answers to this question in 2021, especially for modern locomotives.
ScaleTrains RivetCounter are the best locomotives money can buy in 2021. Excellent, quiet runners, excellent detail and build quality (pretty sturdy for detailed locomotives), and excellent sound (ESU LokSound is the best in the business). The ONLY caveat is it could be argued they didn't nail the UP paint scheme, but most manufacturers struggle with that. All of their other paint schemes are excellent; super vibrant and true to the prototypes.
InterMountain is the runner up. Excellent detail and build quality, and I think they come closest to nailing the UP paint scheme for UP's modern GEs. Sound is also excellent, though they're just now beginning to use ESU LokSound 5, which allows you to customize sounds. They've used LokSound Select up to now. They're pretty good runners, but occasionally have some issues like noise and jerkiness. Not a dealbreaker in my opinion. Their SD40s are excellent.
Athearn Genesis comes in third. Personally, I think Athearn is headed in the right direction. I've been very impressed with the build quality of their ES44s. They're also very good runners, but their sound models can sometimes be hit or miss. Be prepared to return models that frequently lose electrical contact or have other issues. I've had a couple models that had issues with the wheel trucks or drive shaft. Quality control seems to be a bit shoddy with them.
There's a big point with Athearn Genesis that I haven't seen discussed much yet; their sound is about to be the best in the business. Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 has its downsides. Motor control is not as good as ESU, and the sounds can just be weak.
However, I bought one of Athearn's latest GP38-2s, and I was BLOWN AWAY by the sound. It sounds like they're now using high bass speakers, which literally makes it sound like an actual mini version of the locomotive is sitting right in front of you. I highly suggest grabbing one of the latest GP38s to hear it for yourself.
You can put these speakers into locomotives yourself, but as far as I know Athearn are the first to factory install them. I can only assume this means their releases from here on out will include this, which is a big step forward in my book.
MTH HO can be pretty solid, but there are a lot of caveats. Detail is solid, though a little less detailed than the 3 above. Build quality is one of the best; very very sturdy. However, sound and DCC, and running overall, are where we hit some serious caveats.
There's no other way to slice it; MTH's sound, DCC, and running can be absolutely atrocious. Most of the diesels with sound I've bought have had crackly sound. They sometimes respond poorly to DCC commands. And I've had lots of motor running issues, and quality control issues (for example, I've had drive shafts come lose or break on several models).
But, occasionally you can find one that's in good working order. And when they're good, they're a lotta fun to run. Unfortunately their quality control seems poor (and of course now they're selling off parts of their business, sadly).
Kato and Broadway Limited are both falling behind at the moment.
Kato hasn't released new HO locomotives in some time, and the ones that are available on the secondary market just don't hold up to the quality of many other manufacturers now. They're decent "entry-level" models.
Broadway Limited has pretty good sound, but running is hit or miss, and there's much less detail than the top 3 manufacturers I mentioned. I would also call them a good "entry-level" model, although less so than Kato, since they're just as expensive as my top 3 manufacturers.
Lots of good information and opinions so far........
As mentioned, while some mfg are better than others, all have their winners and losers. So you really have to determine what type/era/road you are looking for in order to get a good evaluation of what's out there.
Oh, and then there is the "pocketbook" issue....... In example, if I don't have much to spend and want a good steamer, a Bachman Spectrum would usually be a good buy. But if I have the coin, then I would look towards BLI. That said, from personal experience each of those mfg have their "ups & downs".
My favorite 1st generation diesels were Stewarts and Atlas. Yes, there were others that were more detailed, but for everyday layout use these were "the best".
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
There is no anwser to this question.
For my needs, the Stewart/Kato F3 is the best HO locomotive ever made.
Few will agree.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
mattyjoe Resurrecting this thread to update it for anyone out there looking for answers to this question in 2021, especially for modern locomotives.
Rich
Alton Junction
LastspikemikeI find Athearn Genesis a bit too quick off the dead stop but they are pretty good.
If they're the models with Soundtraxx decoders (Tsunami), this is definitely true, and even lowering the start and mid voltage, and increasing acceleration and deceleration rate, doesn't help much. It's the decoder, not the motor.
I have a few non-sound Athearn Genesis locos that I installed an ESU LokPilot 5 in, and they run FANTASTIC at slow speeds. Definitely recommend giving that a try. I absolutely love my Athearn Genesis locos that have LokPilots in them.
LastspikemikeHave yet to buy a Scale Trains but on the shelf they look awesome.
I'm not sure why I hestitated so long. You will see a lot of hype about ScaleTrains, and maybe a part of me was a little skeptical simply because of the hype. But man, I've gotten 4 of them recently and am absolutely blown away by how good they are.
They just released an ES44, if you're curious. Scoop one up from their site before they sell out.
SeeYou190For my needs, the Stewart/Kato F3 is the best HO locomotive ever made. Few will agree. -Kevin
I think no one can disagree that the Stewart F3 is the best HO locomotive ever made for your needs.
Where they might disagree is if it is the best HO locomotive ever made period. Now as far as the chassis goes, it's up there near the top for sure.
riogrande5761I think no one can disagree that the Stewart F3 is the best HO locomotive ever made for your needs.
For the "Modern" Era units, Atlas Trainman, Athearn & Walthers Mainline for "budget" units, Bachmann with sound (or without) are very solid performers if found at a decent (read well under MSRP) price.
BLI Paragon 2 forward are very good, are the "Upper-Mid-Pack" pick along with Atlas Silver/Gold Lines. (But BLI Smoke units are a cheaply done "toy" feature that are useless. And stinky.)
Genesis (Newer with LED's), ScaleTrains Rivet Counter, Bowser, and Intermountain, are "higher-end" solid units. (ST Rivet, Bowser, and Intermountain awesome, reliable pullers. Newer Genesis trails on pulling power in my experience, but still very solidly done.)
I have zero opinion on MTH, as I have a total of 0 of their locomotives. (No interest in their proprietary DCS System units, DCC Ready models of exact same units offered by many others at same or lower prices.)
Older Genesis with light bulbs are very solidly built, but the light bulbs burn out way too quickly, and are a pain to change out due to being glued in place...
(I do not have any newer Kato units either.)
Your favorites may vary.
Rapido also makes some unique locomotives as well, including an F40PH and soon to be announced F59PH for passenger service.
ricktrains4824Newer Genesis trails on pulling power in my experience, but still very solidly done.
Their SD70ACes, definitely. A bit too light. Also true for their SD70Ms, but those are a bit heavier.
Where they've really improved is their GEVOs though. They have some good weight to them, and pull very very well. Up there with ScaleTrains for running and pulling, in my experience.