ricktrains4824Newer Genesis trails on pulling power in my experience, but still very solidly done.
Their SD70ACes, definitely. A bit too light. Also true for their SD70Ms, but those are a bit heavier.
Where they've really improved is their GEVOs though. They have some good weight to them, and pull very very well. Up there with ScaleTrains for running and pulling, in my experience.
Rapido also makes some unique locomotives as well, including an F40PH and soon to be announced F59PH for passenger service.
For the "Modern" Era units, Atlas Trainman, Athearn & Walthers Mainline for "budget" units, Bachmann with sound (or without) are very solid performers if found at a decent (read well under MSRP) price.
BLI Paragon 2 forward are very good, are the "Upper-Mid-Pack" pick along with Atlas Silver/Gold Lines. (But BLI Smoke units are a cheaply done "toy" feature that are useless. And stinky.)
Genesis (Newer with LED's), ScaleTrains Rivet Counter, Bowser, and Intermountain, are "higher-end" solid units. (ST Rivet, Bowser, and Intermountain awesome, reliable pullers. Newer Genesis trails on pulling power in my experience, but still very solidly done.)
I have zero opinion on MTH, as I have a total of 0 of their locomotives. (No interest in their proprietary DCS System units, DCC Ready models of exact same units offered by many others at same or lower prices.)
Older Genesis with light bulbs are very solidly built, but the light bulbs burn out way too quickly, and are a pain to change out due to being glued in place...
(I do not have any newer Kato units either.)
Your favorites may vary.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
riogrande5761I think no one can disagree that the Stewart F3 is the best HO locomotive ever made for your needs.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190For my needs, the Stewart/Kato F3 is the best HO locomotive ever made. Few will agree. -Kevin
Few will agree.
I think no one can disagree that the Stewart F3 is the best HO locomotive ever made for your needs.
Where they might disagree is if it is the best HO locomotive ever made period. Now as far as the chassis goes, it's up there near the top for sure.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
LastspikemikeI find Athearn Genesis a bit too quick off the dead stop but they are pretty good.
If they're the models with Soundtraxx decoders (Tsunami), this is definitely true, and even lowering the start and mid voltage, and increasing acceleration and deceleration rate, doesn't help much. It's the decoder, not the motor.
I have a few non-sound Athearn Genesis locos that I installed an ESU LokPilot 5 in, and they run FANTASTIC at slow speeds. Definitely recommend giving that a try. I absolutely love my Athearn Genesis locos that have LokPilots in them.
LastspikemikeHave yet to buy a Scale Trains but on the shelf they look awesome.
I'm not sure why I hestitated so long. You will see a lot of hype about ScaleTrains, and maybe a part of me was a little skeptical simply because of the hype. But man, I've gotten 4 of them recently and am absolutely blown away by how good they are.
They just released an ES44, if you're curious. Scoop one up from their site before they sell out.
mattyjoe Resurrecting this thread to update it for anyone out there looking for answers to this question in 2021, especially for modern locomotives.
Resurrecting this thread to update it for anyone out there looking for answers to this question in 2021, especially for modern locomotives.
Rich
Alton Junction
There is no anwser to this question.
For my needs, the Stewart/Kato F3 is the best HO locomotive ever made.
Lots of good information and opinions so far........
As mentioned, while some mfg are better than others, all have their winners and losers. So you really have to determine what type/era/road you are looking for in order to get a good evaluation of what's out there.
Oh, and then there is the "pocketbook" issue....... In example, if I don't have much to spend and want a good steamer, a Bachman Spectrum would usually be a good buy. But if I have the coin, then I would look towards BLI. That said, from personal experience each of those mfg have their "ups & downs".
My favorite 1st generation diesels were Stewarts and Atlas. Yes, there were others that were more detailed, but for everyday layout use these were "the best".
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
ScaleTrains RivetCounter are the best locomotives money can buy in 2021. Excellent, quiet runners, excellent detail and build quality (pretty sturdy for detailed locomotives), and excellent sound (ESU LokSound is the best in the business). The ONLY caveat is it could be argued they didn't nail the UP paint scheme, but most manufacturers struggle with that. All of their other paint schemes are excellent; super vibrant and true to the prototypes.
InterMountain is the runner up. Excellent detail and build quality, and I think they come closest to nailing the UP paint scheme for UP's modern GEs. Sound is also excellent, though they're just now beginning to use ESU LokSound 5, which allows you to customize sounds. They've used LokSound Select up to now. They're pretty good runners, but occasionally have some issues like noise and jerkiness. Not a dealbreaker in my opinion. Their SD40s are excellent.
Athearn Genesis comes in third. Personally, I think Athearn is headed in the right direction. I've been very impressed with the build quality of their ES44s. They're also very good runners, but their sound models can sometimes be hit or miss. Be prepared to return models that frequently lose electrical contact or have other issues. I've had a couple models that had issues with the wheel trucks or drive shaft. Quality control seems to be a bit shoddy with them.
There's a big point with Athearn Genesis that I haven't seen discussed much yet; their sound is about to be the best in the business. Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 has its downsides. Motor control is not as good as ESU, and the sounds can just be weak.
However, I bought one of Athearn's latest GP38-2s, and I was BLOWN AWAY by the sound. It sounds like they're now using high bass speakers, which literally makes it sound like an actual mini version of the locomotive is sitting right in front of you. I highly suggest grabbing one of the latest GP38s to hear it for yourself.
You can put these speakers into locomotives yourself, but as far as I know Athearn are the first to factory install them. I can only assume this means their releases from here on out will include this, which is a big step forward in my book.
MTH HO can be pretty solid, but there are a lot of caveats. Detail is solid, though a little less detailed than the 3 above. Build quality is one of the best; very very sturdy. However, sound and DCC, and running overall, are where we hit some serious caveats.
There's no other way to slice it; MTH's sound, DCC, and running can be absolutely atrocious. Most of the diesels with sound I've bought have had crackly sound. They sometimes respond poorly to DCC commands. And I've had lots of motor running issues, and quality control issues (for example, I've had drive shafts come lose or break on several models).
But, occasionally you can find one that's in good working order. And when they're good, they're a lotta fun to run. Unfortunately their quality control seems poor (and of course now they're selling off parts of their business, sadly).
Kato and Broadway Limited are both falling behind at the moment.
Kato hasn't released new HO locomotives in some time, and the ones that are available on the secondary market just don't hold up to the quality of many other manufacturers now. They're decent "entry-level" models.
Broadway Limited has pretty good sound, but running is hit or miss, and there's much less detail than the top 3 manufacturers I mentioned. I would also call them a good "entry-level" model, although less so than Kato, since they're just as expensive as my top 3 manufacturers.
Atlas, Athearn, Bachmann for GP38, GP40, etc...
Sd variants the same, adding in Intermountain. (Scaletrains as well, If there loco's are as good as their railcars anyways...)
Early GE's, and EMD's, you need either Atlas, Athearn, Bachmann. (If you can find them, Walther's, Bowser, and Intermountain as well.)
All have (or had) Chessie diesels.
Thanks, Larry. I meant to include the 38's, but had a brain hiccup. Also a few GP15's.
Tom
ACYWe have finally come down to the essentials. The Chessie System was absolutely lousy with GP40's and GP40-2's.
Don't forget the GP38 since Chessie had a bunch as well as SD40s.
C&O still tons of GP7/9s on the roster in the 70s..
http://www.trainweb.org/chessiephotos/html/nojava.html
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
riogrande5761 JohnWPowell I'm thinking family line/chessie era with diesels, So here we have it folks, family line/chessie era with diesels. I'm not a family lines expert but Chessie covers most of the 1970's so GP40's and GP40-2's from Atlas and Athearn Genesis come to mind. The hard part for the OP is to filter this topic to eliminate all the off topic noise (i.e. stuff is out of scope for his interest) to find some good suggestions! Welcom to MR forums!
JohnWPowell I'm thinking family line/chessie era with diesels,
We have finally come down to the essentials. The Chessie System was absolutely lousy with GP40's and GP40-2's. There were a number of older GP9's, GP30's and GP35's. GE's and SD's were there in some numbers, but they didn't dominate. So you need to choose the best of those models, balancing the cost vs. the value. IMO, you probably won't go wrong with Atlas or Kato. See the comments of others for opinions on other makes.
I would think the best loco would be one what would hold its value and even appreciate.....that would be Brass
Which brass? Dunno it's beyond my wallet. Check out the videos on www.brasstrains.com
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
JohnWPowellI'm thinking family line/chessie era with diesels,
ggnlarsWhile Atlas China have been very good, the recent change in supplier to Atlas may be a concern. Not much experience out yet to really know if that is or isn't a problem.
If I may make a general observation?
And there lays the problem Internet fear mongering by "internet experts" that fears every change from the tried and true..
I heard the same fear mongering from follow club members and at the LHS when Atlas/Kato(a great team BTW) changed and went to China..Some had Atlas going out of business within five years while others boldly stated they won't buy any more Atlas with crappy Chinese drives.
Atlas hadn't released their first Chinese made engine and yet doom,gloom and hand wringing was the norm.
Even I was concerned at the time.
As I indicated in my post on the Genesis F3's, it is in the variabilities that are prevalent in each case that dominates your choice. Kato, Atlas China and Rapido are my demonstrated, by actual test, favorites. Others have demonstrated much larger variations than I would like. I am convenced that is why some rave while others cuss about a particular manufacturer.
You have to realize that in most cases, the drives for various models by a given manufacturer are nearly identical. A small drive length here, a minor chassis tweak there, etc. yes, some have experienced less than desirable motors, which they changed. That also seems to be a big factor in this discussion. There is very little documentation about this issue. While Atlas China have been very good, the recent change in supplier to Atlas may be a concern. Not much experience out yet to really know if that is or isn't a problem.
So many trains, so little time,
www.llxlocomotives.com
I think Broadway Limited Imports, Bowser, Athearn and Atlas make the best locomotives.
JohnWPowellWas wondering who is the best manufacture and why you like them?
John All of them and none of them make good engines. To me it seems it is the luck of the draw of the engine it self. Something like the old HP cars of the 60's and 70's. Why does one guy 68 383 Road Runner run 15.8 in the quater mile and another guys 68 383 Road Runner run 14.89?
Case in point. I have a BLI PCM Y6b that has thounsdands of hard hours on it dragging 60 plus cars. All so have a BLI PCM Big Boy that I had to fix out of the box? Same goes for Proto engine before (not talking about the old cracked gear problem) and after Walther's bought them. Some run great and I cannot kill like my Erire Bulit an some where DOA?
Funny, only maker I have not had any real problems has been Bachmann?
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
They are all pretty good. Any locomotive advertised in Model Railroader magazine, or Rail Model Craftsman is a fine model. I have a mixed fleet, Athearn, Proto2K, Mantua, IHC, AHM, Pacific Fast Mail, Bachmann, assembled over the years, and they all run good and look good. Not to worry, buy anything that appeals to you and you will be happy with it.
The more expensive locomotives may have more details and nicer paint jobs, but plenty of modestly priced locomotives are pretty good too. If you are buying used, at a train show, have the seller run the locomotive for you, If it runs, both directions, quietly and smoothly, and it looks good to your eye, you will be happy with it. It it doesn't run, it can be fixed, but you don't know how hard the fix might be.
Most new locomotives can be had for DCC, or DC, or "DCC-Ready". DCC is more expensive. DC can always be converted to DCC. DCC-Ready is supposed to mean a no-soldering, no wire stripping, installation of a DCC decoder. I run DC so I don't really know whether "DCC-Ready" lives up to it's claims or not.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
tstage Larry, My guess is that Bernie is referring to some of the earlier Atlas from the 80s & 90s. The newer Atlas is quite nice and the detailing up there with the best of them. They generally run extremely well, too; the best of both worlds. Tom
Larry,
My guess is that Bernie is referring to some of the earlier Atlas from the 80s & 90s. The newer Atlas is quite nice and the detailing up there with the best of them. They generally run extremely well, too; the best of both worlds.
Tom,Even the Atlas/Kato engines was smooth runners and top line locomotives of the time. These engines are still smooth runners.
My Atlas/Roco Alco S4s is still running smooth.My Atlas Classic RS-1,RS-3s.GP7s, GP38s,SD35 is top notch.I just recently bought a Atlas Master SCL Alco S-2 and like expected its a top notch model and a smooth runner.
The only bad Atlas engines I can think of was their early N Scale and that ended when Kato started making the drives for Atlas in the early 80s and set the performance bar higher..Atlas/China N Scale engines is top notch.
Which manufacturer is best?
Hmm, Ford, Chevy, or Dodge?
Now.... I will lob the proverbial hand grenade and answer - KIA!
Oh....
You meant model Trains!?!
Well, why didn't you say so?
Oh, you did...
Ok, I have ones from Athearn, Athearn Genesis, Bachmann, Bachmann Spectrum, BLI, Bowser, Intermountain, and Proto 2000. All run well, and all have their +'s and -'s, so...
Take your pick of them.
Each has their own good things, bad things, and all can (and do) have their own QC issues.
So, now, it depends on what locomotive you are looking for.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
BernieWhile Atlas isn't known for super quality, their new ALP-45 DP locomotive in NJ Transit is quite a good model.
Since when? Atlas is still a top dog contender and Kato is more N then HO..
Athearn has well known QA/QC problems. Suffice it to say I was a loyal Athearn customer now I turn to Atlas and the older LL P2K engines for my needs.
DrW selector I would have to say that the rather costly Trix 2-8-2, which are now available after about eight years, is the finest N. American steam example available short of some of the brass models. Just a comment here. Based on previous runs, the Trix Mikado is arguably one of the best-running HO steam engines. However, the new Santa Fe version is clearly "foobie". It is a USRA Mikado (which the Santa Fe never owned) with an A.T.&S.F. label and a number in the wrong font. Do you want to pay ~$400 for this? JW
selector I would have to say that the rather costly Trix 2-8-2, which are now available after about eight years, is the finest N. American steam example available short of some of the brass models.
I would have to say that the rather costly Trix 2-8-2, which are now available after about eight years, is the finest N. American steam example available short of some of the brass models.
Just a comment here. Based on previous runs, the Trix Mikado is arguably one of the best-running HO steam engines. However, the new Santa Fe version is clearly "foobie". It is a USRA Mikado (which the Santa Fe never owned) with an A.T.&S.F. label and a number in the wrong font. Do you want to pay ~$400 for this?
JW
That's a fair comment, DrW. I noticed that right away when I saw the ad, and it's a tick downward, to be sure. Still, in terms of quality, foobie or no, it's worth the $400 (I think) considering the earlier issue for the NYC version was MSRP somewhat higher than that a decade ago.
I think the answer is very subjective. Of course, Kato, Walthers, and Athearn are the heavy hitters in quality and performance. Kato's P42s are amazingly high quality. While Atlas isn't known for super quality, their new ALP-45 DP locomotive in NJ Transit is quite a good model. Hornby can be iffy, but their Class 56 and Class 60 locomitives run amazingly well and are very highly detailed. Of course, Rapido's APT-E is beyond amazing in quality and detail. Unfortunately, they were made to order and the few that people resold on eBay sold out immediately...there are none to be had anywhere.
A few related comments:
1. One consideration is how many locos (and/or how many will fit on your layout and storage) you may end up adding as time goes on. For instance, I like UP and found that (over a period of 5 years now) I started as transition era oriented and then stretched that a bit. So I ended up wanting to include many types in my roster, now including GPs, SDs, GEs, Alco's, etc. My point is that you may want to add a loco type and then settle (up to a point) for a maker that is at least satisfactory.
2. The second point is that, if getting into DCC, you may at some point get interested in converting DC locos to DCC, with or without sound. That has become one of my favorite activities, and expands your options considerably. While you may not find a loco of interest available as a recent release, there are many unused (or nearly so) ones available on the resale (EBay) route. That has been the source of many of my locos.
3. Getting to specific manufacturers, some points. I like HO Athearn Genesis, Kato, Atlas, Intermountain and LifeLike Proto 2000/1000 diesels. And Athearn, BLI and Proto Heritage (older models) steam. It also depends on whether you are talking DC versions (which i would convert to DCC) where detail and drivetrain are the key issues, or whether the DCC offerings. In the latter case, the decoder and speakers come into play. I prefer the LokSounds that I put into conversions. The Tsunami in a Genesis Geep was disappointing to the point that I replaced it, though I'm ok with the Tsumanis in my Genesis steamers. Steamers tend to be more finicky on derailments and rail contact, so it depends. I don't buy Bachmann diesels basis my steamer experience. I have a 2-6-0 that's ok but it took five 2-8-0s to get to two that worked ok. I had a pet peeve with the Sound Value 2-6-0 stripped down Tsunami decoder as it could not be adjsuted so the sound would not come on with layout power up. (I changed the decoder.) I don't plan to try Bachmann again. But I must stress that others have better experience, so it's an individual experience. I haven't tried Bowser diesels but would do so if I wanted that type loco. MTH for me is only a DC version consideration for conversion to DCC as I don't want to deal with their unique DCC decoders.
Just my opinions.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent