I've heard talk of two major HO manufacturer's making a C-415 available in
HO . But talk is cheap. I asked the question to both Atlas and Bowser . Both of which responded with it's in the mix.
Personally I wanted this locomotive for thirty years. Now the HO high tech,high horsepower locomotives of today are great but I'm an old school Alco guy.
Anybody know insights into if this alco will materialize into a HO model ? When ?
Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb
Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.
Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.
Already been done. I have three: an SP&S, a BN and an undec.
Both of the former are great runners. For the BN one, I added weight and a decoder. It's pulled 25 cars out of a yard. The undec is still in the box.
Lee English has told me that he put off the C-415 to get out the new RS-3's. I expect he'll get to it after the RS-3's are out. That may mean just the late phase ones; or, if his sales are stunning, he might feel the need to stay with the RS-3's other phases. There is certainly more money in RS-3's than C-415's.
If Atlas said anything about doing one, it must have been a LONG time ago. I surely haven't seen a hint about it for years.
Ed
Did we forget to release one in a specific road name?
ATSFGuy Did we forget to release one in a specific road name?
"We"?
My recollection is that they were released in all the original owner schemes. Except for the Australian. And in BN, as I have one. And Demonstrator.
7j43kMy recollection is that they were released in all the original owner schemes. Except for the Australian. And in BN, as I have one. And Demonstrator.
Who put them out? I only know of the Mehano/IHC/Life-like model, and brass.
Modeling whatever I can make out of that stash of kits that takes up half my apartment's spare bedroom.
Overland Models did the painted ones.
The undec is a Key Models.
To do them in plastic, which one are you going to build? One of the 10 medium height cab Rock Island ones, one of the 10 high cap SP ones? The low cab one that Monongahela Connecting bought? Two high cabs with Hi-Ad truck that SP&S bought, that went to BN?
It's such a rare loco, and it's been done. ATT did it too, way back when. Combine the small number total with the fact that nearly every railroad that did order one got different options, and you have a nightmare for making a production run in plastic that has the slightest chance of selling enough to justify the tooling cost.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The plastic C-415's that were done awhile ago were, and are, really awful. I sold mine for $5. I would STRONGLY recommend that anyone who just can't wait for a good one should find a brass one. Unless, of course, you love model building. But then, do one from scratch.
If/when the C-415 is done (again) in plastic, I expect it will be done in all variations. Cutting molds these days appears to be practically free. And, while there weren't very many made, they are quite striking. And I think that will increase sales. I also think a few branchline freelancers will get them. Again for their striking looks.
I do hope that it comes as an undec kit with all the parts versions. THAT would be fun to play with.
Sounds like if you want a C-415 you need to get someone to do it in 3d printed form.
Hey, there's a C855 out there! (and more)
A pretty respectable C-415 can be made from the old AHM model if you are inclined enough to do some modelling ....
https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
That is a great build. I looked at his other stuff too. Doesn't he post in here every once and while?
Maybe it was in the DDetailer forums.
Mike.
My You Tube
'Striking' to some is 'ugly' to the rest - and I love Alcos, but those are just way too homely.
I guess if Rapido can do the GMD-1, they could do C-415's. But there were over 100 GMD-1's built.
Not sure what you mean that tooling costs are basically free - I don't know any professional tool and die maker who works for free. Let alone anyone who cuts injection molding dies. If you really want a couple of decent models your best bet may be to, as states, have someone draw up 3D printed parts, then make a molds and use those as masters for resin casting a bunch of each piece. Brass sheet underframe with a NWSL Stanton truck or a BullAnt drive and there you go. Only want 1 or 2? Just print out 2 and use the 3D printed ones as the end product. The only real hard part is finding someone with the skill to draw the parts to make the 3D printer files from. The small bits, like handrails and stanchions, are available from various detal parts makers, so you only need to 3D print what's going to be part of the shell, any detail parts can be seperately applied.
Outside of finding a brass one and paying brass prices (compounded by the relative rarity of existing brass pieces), this is likely to be the fastest way to get one up to modern detail standards. I doubt anyone will make a production run in plastic.
rrinker Not sure what you mean that tooling costs are basically free - I don't know any professional tool and die maker who works for free. Let alone anyone who cuts injection molding dies.
Not sure what you mean that tooling costs are basically free - I don't know any professional tool and die maker who works for free. Let alone anyone who cuts injection molding dies.
Back in the olden days, molds were cut by hand using a mix of a milling machine and tracing pantograph.
Now, once you have adequate drawings, you feed the info to the machine and it makes the molds while you sit and drink your coffee. Or watch the other three machines.
So, having all those variations on a model don't cost any more than it used to cost for a single version.
That view is supported by the huge number of variations that are delivered to us at quite low prices, compared to if all the molds were hand cut.
Ed,Cutting tooling is not "free", basically or otherwise. A high-end car can cost up to $80,000 to tool. That's not basically free. Yes, you don't need a highly trained toolmaker to cut the tools these days because of CAM, but you do need a highly trained 3D CAD person to draw it in the first place. And it's not as easy as just scanning a real item and hitting the "print" button. The model needs to come out of the mold, which means someone with experience has to check to make sure the detail doesn't include any traps that would lock the plastic into the mold when it's shot.
What CAD/CAM has really done is allowed for many more detail parts. In yon olden days, an Athearn loco shell might have 6 pieces: body, dynamic brake blister, cab, horn, cab windows and headlight lenses. Today, a loco could have 100 parts or more.
With the exception of the molded on grab irons and thick handrails, the AHM model isnt a bad starting point. It even has see thru louvers. I think the basic dimensions are decent enough. Its a matter of adding details.
- Douglas
Wow a RS3 .Only every company that ever made trains has a Alco RS 2 or 3. It has almost been done as much as the EMD F7. Think if the marketing was right the Alco Century 415 would be a great seller since,, lets see they make one in brass and one in IHC Yugo and that is it. The oddity wins. We have enough good RS watever to fill the shop and still have a fleet working the yard and rails. The Alco C415 was the last real road switcher made by alco and with its different versions of about 50 sold total would be great in all the cab versions and roads. I would support that before another RS3.
Paul3 Ed,Cutting tooling is not "free", basically or otherwise. A high-end car can cost up to $80,000 to tool. That's not basically free. Yes, you don't need a highly trained toolmaker to cut the tools these days because of CAM, but you do need a highly trained 3D CAD person to draw it in the first place. And it's not as easy as just scanning a real item and hitting the "print" button. The model needs to come out of the mold, which means someone with experience has to check to make sure the detail doesn't include any traps that would lock the plastic into the mold when it's shot. What CAD/CAM has really done is allowed for many more detail parts. In yon olden days, an Athearn loco shell might have 6 pieces: body, dynamic brake blister, cab, horn, cab windows and headlight lenses. Today, a loco could have 100 parts or more.
Railfanning Quincy Illinois a few years back what did I find but two C415s. Neither was running at the time but both looked to be in running order. Low cab versions. The Burlington Junction RR could make for an interesting layout idea.
Dave Nelson
Harpo1me,HO RS-3's have been made by:Athearn (which is the 35 year old tooling by MDC/Roundhouse).Atlas (35 year old tooling).Bachmann.Stewart (long gone - 30 years ago).Hobbytown (even longer gone - 50 years ago).
HO RS-2's have been made by:Kato (20 years ago, never run again).Proto1000AHM (piece of junk)
That's not that many. In fact, the only "all new tooling" RS-3 that has been made in this century is the Bachmann...hardly worth getting out of bed for. The only RS-2 tooled in this century has been the P1K version, which has no separate grabs or much in the way of detail (and nothing road specific) and is slow as heck.
Oddity does sell. At least once. Sometimes twice. But not over an extended period of time. 26 C-415's were made vs. 377 RS-2's and 1418 RS-3's. If it was your money, which would you invest in first?And I'm not saying no one will make a C-415. I think they will. But I understand why Bowser is making the Phase II and III RS-3's over tooling a C-415 right now. The fact is that RS-3's will make them more money in a shorter time than a C-415 will.
Paul3Hobbytown (even longer gone - 50 years ago).
Actually, it's still in production. I think Hobbytown's being run as a side business to the owner's main job at the moment, but all existing kits are still available. The website's down at the moment though.
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Doughless With the exception of the molded on grab irons and thick handrails, the AHM model isnt a bad starting point. It even has see thru louvers. I think the basic dimensions are decent enough. Its a matter of adding details.
The main thing wrong is the round fan on top of the hood, it should be removed. None of them had that feature.
Interesting thread, even if pulled up from 2 years ago. I like C-415s, and since I model SP, all the more. The IHC (Mehano) is based on the SP tall cab 415. I'm working on a couple of these. One has been reworked internally with Athearn trucks, an Atlas Austria motor, twin brass flywheels. Works great, but it and the other will need the whole redetailing routine.
There are also some nice pictures of reworked Mehanos on Richard Percy's "My Espee" site.
In response to nw2's comment, I went there and took a look. Sho-nuff, the Mehano has the round fan, but a brass model doesn't.
Dan
I have. Been waiting for them too. I asked them a few weeks ago about that. Not sure what happened to the Atlas one. But Bowser is working on it. With sound too. They are looking to do the tall, medium, and short cabs
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
As an ALCo and SP fan, I would much prefer a quality model of the S-6 which seems identical to the S-5. Most of SP's group of 70 units were sold to industrial and common carrier users throughout North America, when SP retired them. This would make them attractive to modelers with switching layouts as well as regular layouts. According to the listing of SP S-6 dispositions in issue 81 of Extra 2200 South, the locomotive newsmagazine, the S-6s went to operators from the Asbestos and Danville in Quebec, to Nekoosa Paper of Nekoosa WI, to Servicios Portuarios of Mazatlan, Mexico, and many places in between, making them truly North American switchers. So far, they have only been available in brass, by Alco Models, back in the 1970s.
In the February 2015 issue of RMC there was an announcement that Bowser planned to produce a Century 415 and an RS-3. Per Bowser's website, the projected delivery of the RS-3's is January, 2020.
I guess that things take time to happen. Maybe the 415 will follow (some day).
Am I the only one who feels like Charlie Brown with Lucy and that infernal football everytime a supplier announces their latest "COMING SOON!" and then goes into the pre-orders must be in by--------? I understand the cash outlay and all that is involved in bringing new products to market but 2015 to the shady side of 2020? Come on, guys. If you're just testing the waters to gauge interest in an item, don't come on like it is in production as we speak. Then, years later we find out, "Oh there wasn't enough interest, so, we cancelled it....years ago." I'd much rather respond to a "We're thinking of doing a -----. Are you interested?" than a hyperventilating COMIN SOON--pre-orders must be received today then, crickets, for years.
NHTX,There's an ex-SP S-6 at the Fore River Railroad in Quincy, MA. It's been there for at least 35 years.
A friend of mine had an Alco Models S-6 and I made it useful by taking the brass shell and dropping it on an Atlas S-4 chassis. It looks good and runs great, but it did take a little engineering to get the brass shell to sit on the Atlas chassis.
If model manufacturers did what you suggest ("Hey, we're thinking of doing this. You interested? Sign here..."), they would not get an accurate idea of what people are willing to pay money for. Many people are interested in specific models, but fewer are willing to shell out $200-$300 for one.
In this situation with Bowser and the C-415, they got hosed by the sudden unexpected closure of AFFA, the Chinese manufacturer that did a lot of work in this hobby for companies like Bowser, Atlas, InterMountain, etc. It put a hard stop to their expected income stream until they could find another factory (or one could be created, workforce trained, etc.).
The bills, however, still come in every week. Salaries, rent, insurance, etc. So riskier products get kicked down the road in favor of faster, more profitable products until the income stream is re-established.
So this is probably why the Phase II and Phase III RS-3's from Bowser are going to get made before the C-415.
Paul is quite right. Bills and staff have to be paid.
Folks on this forum are also trivializing the time spent in cadd to get things right. I'm pretty sure the amount of time Lee invests in his cadd drawings is substantially more than most would realize. There is a huge amount of good old engineering design that goes into these models just figuring out how to do stuff--how close to scale it can be and still be handled and not break.
In the non-holiday season months, on Saturdays one often finds the store staff looking over the latest photos, sometimes heatedly debating correct paint colors, etc.
The overall effort is way more than people would ever expect, and they often do the work around the edges of waiting on customers, so on the design end, some of the true costs are actually "hidden" costs. I doubt that a private individual could really afford to invest the amount of time it takes to produce the 3D model to the level of detail they do.
Maybe there will be a few master model makers who might disagree if it was their favorite engine, but...
John
Paul,
The ex-SP S-6 on the Fore River RR in Quincy, MA is the former SP 1083/1250. It was sold to Chrome Crankshaft in January 1976 and, resold to FRRR in 12/76. Other operators of former SP S-6s included;
Omaha Public Power District, Omaha NE
Chicago, Madison & Northern RR
Nekoosa Papers, Nekoosa WI
Asbestos & Danville Ry. Asbestos, Quebec
Platte Generating Station No. 1, Grande Island, NE
Salt Lake, Garfield, & Western RR. Garfield, UT
Foster Farms, Turlock, CA
Pacific Fruit Express, Tucson, AZ
General Electric, Houston, TX
Neptune Terminals, N. Vancouver, BC
Foster Farms, Livingston, CA
Prince Rupert Grain Co. Prince Rupert, BC
Tacoma Muni. Belt Line, Tacoma, WA
Sidney Warehousing & Industrial Sites, Sidney, NE
Dow Chemical Co, Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Ventura County Ry, Oxnard, CA
Bandas Industries, Nolanville, TX
Bethlehem Steel, Vernon, CA
Allied Chemicals, Solvay, NY
Vancouver Wharves, Vancouver, BC
Compania Minera de Cananea S.A. , Mexico
Louisiana Dock Co, Louisville, KY
Continental Grain, Vancouver, BC
Nebraska Public Power, Omaha, NE
PLM Railcar Maintenance Co. Alliance, NE
Pittsburgh Plate Glass, Crystal City, MO
American Bulk Loading Enterprises, San Pedro, CA
Proler Steel, Houston, TX
Winchester & Western RR, Winchester, VA
Kansas City Power & Light, Kansas City, MO
This is out of a fleet of 58 units. Some operators had multiple locomotives and, many locomotives went on to serve multiple operators, which the C-415 did not. In addition to SP's 58 units, the were 20 other ORIGINAL operators of the S-6. Like you, I have done the ALCo Models repowering which in a way, is part of the challenge and satifaction of this hobby. Who knows, maybe we can convince Rapido to produce one of those MLW switchers with the same wheelbase as the S-5/6 and then....?
As long as Rapido has entered the discussion, others doing business in China would benefit from their business model. When Rapido announces a model and a estimated date of delivery, they deliver. If some roadnames don't make the cut, they say so up front, instead of leaving modelers hanging, wondering when they will see the one they pre-ordered. Also since we are on the subject of pre-orders, and you made mention of the $200-$300 price tag of these items, when a person commits that amount of their hobby budget to a pre-ordered item, it often prevents the purchase of another item that comes on the market in the meantime. Cancel the pre-order? What does that mfr do when they find their customer has canceled because something else came on the market prior to their product--especially the high-end items? My gripe with pre-orders are the items that never show up. There is a company that has had an SD-38-2 on the way for three or four years, and as far as I can see, it is no closer today than it was four years ago. Pre-order from them? Not me. I'm well aware of the problems with the manufacturer closing in China but, that disaster was within the past year, what happened during the preceding three? Maybe doing business with the NHRHTA and Rapido has caused me to expect product delivery within this lifetime. One thing they can learn from Jason Shron and Company is to not put all the eggs in one basket. No matter how great a deal that factory gives you to produce your entire product line, is it wise to give them that much control over your product flow? Because the bills continue to come in, some income is better than none at all.
All is not negative. It is refreshing to hear we are on the cusp of finally seeing an ACCURATE, quality ACF 5250 cu. ft. Center flow covered hopper in HO. The sarcasm is due to the fact that the 5250 was introduced in 1964 and, the 40 year sun has set for a large portion of the 20,000 cars that were the equivalent of the modern day billboard reefer. Yet, because a manufacturer jumped out front in the 1960s with a model that was wrong--and every other manufacturer that copied it, copied it errors and all, we have never had a good plastics car which the 5250 was/is. I hope they get it right because I'm in for 17 lessor names plus a bunch of plain grey ACFX leasers.