Are there any railroad magazines covering the late 1800s? There seems to be no coverage of this era in MR for rolling stock, locos, structures and the like. I'm in Aus and purchase all railroad needs on line from America because local model railroad stores here stock mostly Australian and European goods. It would be a great help to find a publication covering the era.
Ron from down under.
There seemed to be more interest in that era in older issues or MR. There are a few people doing it today - Dave Husman who posts here, and you might be interested in Craig Bisgeier's 1892 Housatonic http://www.housatonicrr.com/
Books are probably few and far between - at least specific to any one railroad for that era. The bigger railroads have had multiple histories published about them, which would contain info and photos from that era, but the various short lines and smaller railroads of the era, that's going to take some serious research. There are general books on locomotives and freight cars that would help.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Ron HumeAre there any railroad magazines covering the late 1800s? There seems to be no coverage of this era in MR for rolling stock, locos, structures and the like. I'm in Aus and purchase all railroad needs on line from America because local model railroad stores here stock mostly Australian and European goods. It would be a great help to find a publication covering the era.
Short answer is no. The major manufacturers think railroads were invented after WW1. The first 100 years of railroads is pretty much ignored, with the exception of MDC/Roundhouse and Bachmann. Roundhouse engines and cars run well and the last set of Roundhouse cars were very accurately painted (they seem to have used the same artwork as Clover House) Sadly the same models were in production for about 40 years. One can only use so many 36 ft 1920 era detailed boxcars and reefers.
Bachmann has produced an excellent 1800's 4-4-0 with DCC and sound, so it is in production. Their cars, while appropriate are train set quality and the same models have been in production for the last 40 years. Lettering is minimal at best.
The best models in production are the craftsman kits: LaBelle, Westerfield, Alkem and other smaller manufacturers.
Decals are available from Westerfield, dry transfers from Clover House.
There was a cottage industry but it has taken hits due to illness and death. There was a fellow production a huge variety of decals for the turn of the century, but he stopped production due to illness. Another fellow produced a few limited edition resin kits, but he passed. Silver Crash models ceased prouction.
Yahoo Groups has a very active "EarlyRail" group (pre-WW1). There is a forum discussion for early rail on the Railroad Line Forum.
Tichy produces a lot of the parts needed for scratchbuilding (turnbuckles, queen posts, brake gear), Tahoe procues two excellent archbar trucks. A lot of the modelers scratchbuild and do home resin casting.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
The magazines that focus on that era are those of the various railroad historical societies. Too many to list!
If it is prototype photos and information you seek, there are some classic old rail books that were popular enough that copies are pretty easy to track down.
Two are by George B Abdill: This Was Railroading, and A Locomotive Engineer's Album. His book on Civil War railroading is also very entertaining
John H. White: The American Railroad Passenger Car, and The Great Yellow Fleet, A History of American Railroad Refrigerator Cars. White has also written on locomotive development 1930 to 1880 and those books might be of interest.
Edwin P. Alexander: Down at the Depot, American Railroad Stations 1831 to 1920. Some wonderfully atmospheric old photos. On The Main Line is a look at the Pennsylvania Railroad and its infrastructure in the time period you are concernd with. Again lots of fascinating old photographs.
Dave Nelson
Ron,
Adding to the good advice from above:
There is a lot of information about that era. But it is not available in a continuing magazine form. You'll have to prospect for it, pardner, jes like in the Ole West. Whoopie tie yie, etc.
Anyway:
There's some additional info sources.
One is a book by E. P. Alexander called "Iron Horses". It features 100 two-page "studies" of American locomotives from 1829-1900. No. 82 on is for 1890. But keep in mind that most locomotives working in 1890 were built prior. So, it's a pretty interesting summary of both the common and unusual in steam power in the US.
Another STUNNINGLY good book is John H. White, Jr.'s "The American Railroad Freight Car". Over 600 pages on the subject PRIOR to the "coming of steel". If you read it, you will know a LOT about the subject.
There are also, on occasion, books about your time period of interest that are railroad specific. On my desk is Schrenk and Frey's "The Northern Pacific Railroad: Engines of Growth, 1887-1905". 250 pages of pretty specific information about NP locomotives of your era of interest.
The US, being large-ish even then, had quite a variety of railroads and locales. You might have a specific local interest. Perhaps not now, but it can creep up on you.
There is a huge amount of prototype information (railroad, sort-of-railroad, somewhat-near-the-railroad, etc.) about the time period. Photography was well established. Books were actually written and read in those days. And some of it was even true.
I agree that modeling that era is not stunningly popular. Them's the breaks, as we say here. In motive power, there's a little available in plastic (as mentioned earlier). I recommend checking out the brass locomotives. I believe there's a much broader selection there. And I also think the prices will be lower than the ever-popular giants of steam. For freight rolling stock, I think you should plan on building your own from Evergreen styrene. Generally, the construction will be VERY simple. Tank and hopper cars will likely be different. Cast resin kits will likely become familiar to you. Westerfield is around. Sunshine Models used to be, but you might find some of theirs. They generally do/did "early-ish" freight cars. Many of which will be "too-late-ish" for you. But I suspect you will find something(s) of use from those people.
As noted earlier, the various historical societies are a source. So are the Yahoo Groups (and Facebook, I suppose). You will undoubtedly want to join this group:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EarlyRail/info
I strongly recommend to join that Yahoo group. I'll bet they will have some VERY good advice on the matter.
Ed
Gotta admit I'm curious. What prompted you to be interested in the time and place (way back when way over there)?
I have aquired the books mentioned over the years from private sales, book stores and ebay. Great resources.
I have done a lot of Google searches for early usa railroads.
The Yahoo Early rail group I use to belong to.
There is HO scale stuff available. No idea what scale the OP is interested in.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
The internet has information on some railroads. You might find the Virginia and Truckee to be interesting. There are detailed descriptions of their locomotives which are available as model from AHM Rivarossi.
http://www.virginiaandtruckee.com/
Ron .... Several years ago, I modeled the 1900 era, and found the following magazine to be very helpful. "Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette"
http://www.ngslgazette.com
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe The internet has information on some railroads. You might find the Virginia and Truckee to be interesting. There are detailed descriptions of their locomotives which are available as model from AHM Rivarossi. http://www.virginiaandtruckee.com/
And there are SEVERAL books on the V&T, I have 2 of them. Much was written about the V&T and there are lots of photos, mainly due to Beebe's attempts to preserve the railroad and also his work promoting the Nevada Centennial and Virginia City in the late 50's and early 60's. And Rivarossi did a bunch of V&T locos, which were made for many years. I have 3 of them, but they all need some work and they have the deeper flanges which won't run on Code 83 track.
Google Books is an excellent resource for pre WW1 info.
Shorpy has photos from the Library of Congress by the Detroit Publishing Co.
The historical societies have some articles on the earlier era every so often.
E-Bay is a great resource. Search for your railroad and also for the cities and towns on the ralroad.
If you don't mind the digging, there is a surprising amount of info out there. If you want it all tied up in neat package, probably not so much.
A lot of people think of little short line railroads in the "wild west". Remember that 75% of the US rail mileage in 1900 was east of the Mississippi. People also tend to think of railroads back then as quaint contraptions. They were the cutting edge of technology for that era. They had one of the most sophisticated management structures, where some of the largest coprorations, they had cutting edge communications systems. The PRR had 30,000 class GD hopper bottom gons for hauling coal and iron alone. You can make just as industrial strength railroad in 1880-1900 as you can in 1980-2000.
dehusmanA lot of people think of little short line railroads in the "wild west". Remember that 75% of the US rail mileage in 1900 was east of the Mississippi. People also tend to think of railroads back then as quaint contraptions. They were the cutting edge of technology for that era. They had one of the most sophisticated management structures, where some of the largest coprorations, they had cutting edge communications systems
True. In the 1800s the railroads were some of the biggest businesses in the country. And the industrialized eastern part of the country was where the business was, and the population. Out west, trains mostly just transported small amounts of people over long distances, served mining interests and some agriculture.
And that in turn reminds me of something I failed to mention: state and local (county, city and town) historical societies and libraries often have on-line archives of old photos. For example going to the Wisconsin State Historical Society website and typing in "railroads" as a search term came up with all sorts of photos, many of them pre 1900.
Anytime the 1800's or 1880 is mentioned, I always think of a 4-4-0 American.
It seems to me the biggest problem with modeling 1890 is getting the colors right. The good news is that if your information says something was painted vermilion or yellow ochre, you can match it.
Another thing to consider is you should probably be using Code 70 track. Which ain't all bad, ya know.
You might end up using stub switches, too. Partially or completely. Maybe.
Chicago, aka Cow Town, would be a good location to model in the 1880s. Trains brought livestock cars from all over the country to the Union Stockyards. The slaughter houses were located right next to them. Then the meat got packed up and shipped off to other big cities.
Several years ago Newton Gregg did reprints of various car builders and locomotive dictionaries. He did both entire dictionaries and excerpts known as the TrainShed series. Some of these were for the late 1800's. Used book dealers such as Ron's carry these. Some of the originals have been facsimile copied and are online.
Paul
A useful book: On The Main Line
https://www.amazon.com/main-line-Pennsylvania-Railroad-century/dp/B0006C0EHG/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1490202133&sr=1-1&keywords=on+the+main+line
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
In fact, there is quite a bit of information regarding 19th century North American railroading, but it is not to be found in current magazine sources. As noted above you'll find some articles in magazines of the 1950s and '60s. But little in recent decades. And of that, beware of anything labeld "old-time" or "Old West," as these pieces invariable feature a Hollywood-style, imagined view of early railroading.
Instead go on-line.The small but very dedicated group of modelers interested in this niche trade information about early equipment (and modeling it) via several online forums. Two good ones are the Civil War Railroads and Early Rail forums on Yahoo. Another is the Early Rail Forum that is hosted by Rail Line. A search on Google will bring up the urls for these sources, for which you will have to registrar to join. For the best print information, do an online search for the books of John H.White Jr, a former curator of transportation at the US Smithsonian Institute. He did extensive works on not only locomotives, but passenger coaches and Freight cars.
Modeling, or at least reasonably accurate modeling, can't be done with ready to run stock. So be prepared to do some scratch building and kit bashing. There are also an adequate number of good kits that allow one to model railroads of the period from the 1860s to the 1890s (see the Early Rail Fourum Folder section for a list). Good locomotives are another matter, though modelers are overcoming the lack of kits by working with second hand cast metal and brass engines--and their combination with new 3D printed parts from online services like Shapeways.
I've never understood why mainstream North American model railroaders are so fixed on the late 20th century. That's certainly not the case with ship or military modelers. And in Britain you find excellent modeling of Victorian and Edwardian trains at almost every model exhibition. In any case, welcome to a very rewarding hobby with a hobby. And for inspiration, look online for sites like Thom Radice's Western and Atlantic Railroad, Bernard Kempinski's United States Military Rail Road, or Craig Bisgeier's Housatonic Railroad (see url above). And to show that non-American modelers can do equally well, check out Hakan Nilsson's California Railway & Navigation Company layout (In Sweden).
Mel
A quick follow-up to my first email. I just discovered that the on-line site for John Ott, which was down for awhile, is back up. This is a must see if you are interested in modeling c. 1890 North America, as John has photos of three different period layouts (focused on different parts of the continent) on view along with various pages on how he has made many of his models. Go To : http://www.ottgalleries.com/
And in thinking of his work, I was reminded of Don Ball's great Stockton & Copperpolis site, a blog filled with great photos and much useful modeling information at: http://sandcrr.blogspot.com
Again, good luck in your modeling.
Voyager I've never understood why mainstream North American model railroaders are so fixed on the late 20th century.
I've never understood why mainstream North American model railroaders are so fixed on the late 20th century.
I think there's a tendency for MOST modelers to be interested in what they've seen. And we, here, have seen late 20th (and early 21st) century prototypes.
That said, I know that interest can be stirred by a manufacturer/importer. Ed Suydam got people interested in interurbans. That's pretty much gone now, because he's gone.
Northwest Short Line brought in a bunch of brass logging engines and suddenly logging was popular. It's still around, but not as popular as it was then, I think.
A lot of brass engines were brought in by PFM (Great Northern) and W&R (SP&S). And those two roads still have a rather large following.
And I note that Blackstone seems to be reviving HOn3 nicely. I know I'm slightly tempted, even though I have NO excuse.
So, if you can convince someone to sponsor some early steam and rolling stock, I believe interest in the specialty would grow. And, no, LaBelle kits don't count.
7j43k Voyager I've never understood why mainstream North American model railroaders are so fixed on the late 20th century. I think there's a tendency for MOST modelers to be interested in what they've seen. And we, here, have seen late 20th (and early 21st) century prototypes. That said, I know that interest can be stirred by a manufacturer/importer. Ed Suydam got people interested in interurbans. That's pretty much gone now, because he's gone. Northwest Short Line brought in a bunch of brass logging engines and suddenly logging was popular. It's still around, but not as popular as it was then, I think. A lot of brass engines were brought in by PFM (Great Northern) and W&R (SP&S). And those two roads still have a rather large following. And I note that Blackstone seems to be reviving HOn3 nicely. I know I'm slightly tempted, even though I have NO excuse. So, if you can convince someone to sponsor some early steam and rolling stock, I believe interest in the specialty would grow. And, no, LaBelle kits don't count. Ed
I would suggest a different reason for the decline in apparent interest in those various aspects of modeling.
If we first go with the idea that most people think of trains based on what they looked like from about 1900 on, then in 1965 there was only 65 years of rail history from which to select your era and prototype.
But today, using that same base line, there is 117 years of history from which to choose your era and prototype. There may or maynot be more modelers today than in 1965, but I suspect the number has not doubled.
That means that by any statistical formula, it is likely that there are only half as many people modeling any given era or theme, and possibly much less.
There may be something to the idea that some people model what they have seen, and that does likely skew the choices toward newer prototypes. But that does not completely hold up across the board based on many conversations on this forum.
I'm 59, born in 1957, I model 1954.....and have no interest in modeling the 1960's or 1970's, or trains of today.
And, if I was going to choose a different era to model, I would choose one similar to the era asked about by the OP. I would likely pick 1905/1910.
As long as you are a reasonably skilled kit builder/kit basher, and/or not overly obsessive about detail or EXACT correctness, very representive modeling of the 1880's or the turn of the nineteenth century can be done with reasonable ease.
As mentioned above, for the last 40 plus years Roundhouse/MDC had made a ton of stuff focused on that era. Bachmann has a number of locos and other items, there is a fair amount of brass, craftsman kits, etc. It is out there.
Keep in mind it was a time of great progress in railroading. The size and nature of railroad equipment advanced quite a bit from 1880 to 1920.
A reason why I would pick 1905/1910 as an interesting time to model.
And yes, as mentioned above, the real action was east of the Mississippi.
Sheldon
The pivotal year is 1906. Before that and you can have some cars with link and pin couplers and no air brakes, after that they will all have air brakes and knuckle couplers.
dehusman The pivotal year is 1906. Before that and you can have some cars with link and pin couplers and no air brakes, after that they will all have air brakes and knuckle couplers.
Oh yes, I did my 7th grade science project on the development of the Westinghouse Air Brake........that was 1970, I was 13 and already building Silver Streak kits and Mantua locos.....sometimes hard to believe I will be 60 this year, nearly 50 years of model trains.
Mixing these types in a pre 1906 setting could be interesting. I don't know, but I would imagine that the non air brakes and link&pin cars would have to go at the back. Would make car sorting and switching more interesting.
Hume.
Whu'dya fall in a didgery-doo. Or whatever you Aussies call a well.
It's time to flap yer gums and say sumthin'.
Well shucks and dang it fellas, that is a heap of info you all put together for an era that seems on the surface to be almost lost. Maybe MR should rethink their strategy of concentrating heavily on the modern stuff. I mean, where is the romance in that?
Hay Ed, the corny reason I was drawn to the era is, you guessed it, old Western movies of my youth! There was a sort of parallel between the desolation, the characters and their desperation in those movies, with very similar circumstances in my then home town of Tennant Creek. It was the last Australian gold rush town, situated in the Simpson desert with hopeful characters from everywhere, seeking their fortunes one way or another prior to World War II. (My father was a successful professional gambler). Maybe if the railway (railroad) station was in town rather than 315 miles south, I would have been influenced differently.
Thanks for the useful information everyone, I shall delve into it with interest.
Good ta hear from ya, mate.
An interesting, though not surprising, answer. I think there is nothing wrong with building on the visuals presented in Western movies. There used to be a number of layouts built on that theme back when US TV was enamored with Westerns (late '50's).
Since it's YOUR layout, you are the one to decide how stereotypical you want to make it. You know, the saloon, the corral, Miss Kitty's establishment, etc.
On the other hand, you could opt for "strict reality". Which also has it's good points. I kind of like the Santa Fe. It's definitely "Western".
Best wishes on this and keep in touch.
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd, if I was going to choose a different era to model, I would choose one similar to the era asked about by the OP. I would likely pick 1905/1910. As long as you are a reasonably skilled kit builder/kit basher, and/or not overly obsessive about detail or EXACT correctness, very representive modeling of the 1880's or the turn of the nineteenth century can be done with reasonable ease. As mentioned above, for the last 40 plus years Roundhouse/MDC had made a ton of stuff focused on that era. Bachmann has a number of locos and other items, there is a fair amount of brass, craftsman kits, etc. It is out there. Keep in mind it was a time of great progress in railroading. The size and nature of railroad equipment advanced quite a bit from 1880 to 1920. A reason why I would pick 1905/1910 as an interesting time to model.
I agree. America before 1960 was a very different place, and America before WWII was almost a foreign country. While I think the Civil War-1880 period would be difficult to model, the 1905-1910 period is doable. I am thinking of backdating, but back to the 30s or 20s. I enjoy reading Eric Hansmann's blog, and I have looked at Craig Bisgeier's site. If my skills improve I may go back to the teens.
Gary
IRONROOSTER dehusman The pivotal year is 1906. Before that and you can have some cars with link and pin couplers and no air brakes, after that they will all have air brakes and knuckle couplers. Mixing these types in a pre 1906 setting could be interesting. I don't know, but I would imagine that the non air brakes and link&pin cars would have to go at the back. Would make car sorting and switching more interesting. Paul
Burns Automatic Car Coupler Designed to couple with knuckle types or link and pin. Gap in knuclke for link, holes in knuckle for pin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janney_coupler#/media/File:Syracuse-malleable_1899.jpg