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Broadway Limited Imports Pennsylvania Railroad T-1 4-4-4-4 Duplex Derailment Troubles

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, March 17, 2017 2:21 PM

There are some other spots too but this one is the one I observed the most.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, March 17, 2017 2:17 PM

A millimeter is about .04"

A "few" millimeters would be three or more.  Three millimeters is 3 x .04".  Which is an eighth of an inch.

THAT would be an incredible superelevation.

That the curve is only a slight bend and of wide radius does not make it immune from error.  If the locomotive ONLY derails there on the entire layout, I don't think improper track can be ruled out.

One thing that's pretty easy to check out on the loco is to put it onto a FLAT surface.  Then try sliding a piece of paper under each of the driving wheels.  If it slides under one or more, that could indicate a problem.  If it does not, that does not necessarily clear the loco.

 

Clarity over what the leading truck would be is, here, important.  Is it the 4-wheel swiveling lead truck?  Or is it the 4-wheel front engine--the one with the siderods.

 

Ed

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, March 17, 2017 1:54 PM

cascadenorthernrr

But its only higher by a few millimeters.

 

That is correct.  Thats what superelevation is.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, March 17, 2017 11:35 AM

But its only higher by a few millimeters.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by Water Level Route on Friday, March 17, 2017 11:17 AM

cascadenorthernrr
the outside rail is a bit higher than the inside

That's what superelevation is.

Mike

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, March 17, 2017 11:08 AM

The club "mechanic" looked at it and he came to the conclusion that the front truck needs more "play" the section of track is a very broad curve (the track barely turns) and everyone elses locos run over it fine so it must be my loco. I must add its not really a superelevated curve more so its a slight bend in the track where the outside rail is a bit higher than the inside causing the loco to jump the track.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by Paul3 on Friday, March 17, 2017 10:57 AM

cascadenorthernrr,
What's the radius of the curve?

How long is the transition from the flat to the superelevation?

How high is the superelevation?

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, March 17, 2017 10:51 AM

I think the problem is more likely in the track than the locomotive.

Note that I used the word "think".  Not "know".

I've got some superelevated curves.  First, they're 48" radius.  THAT never hurts.  Also, they also have easements.  THAT never hurts.  And, most of all, the combined easement and approach (ramp) to the superelevation section is 18" long.

The point of the long (18") approach is to have gradual change--no big surprises for the equipment.

There has never been a derailment on those curves.  Never.  That is with my equipment and at least 15 other people's.

 

Ed 

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Posted by BRVRR on Friday, March 17, 2017 8:42 AM

We've had a BLI Pennsylvania T1 on the BRVRR since Christmas of 2013. The manufacturer recommends a minimum of a 22-inch radius curve. It is a stellar performer on the 22-1/2 inch outer mainline, but binds a bit on the inner 20-inch main.

The BRVRR layout doesn't have any super-elevated track, but the loco is picky. Any irregularity will cause the front truck to derail, followed by the lead drivers.

I would bet that there is some flaw in the track work, particularly if the loco derails in the same place repeatedly.

Tags: BRVRR , PRR

Remember its your railroad

Allan

  Track to the BRVRR Website:  http://www.brvrr.com/

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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, March 17, 2017 7:51 AM

That's quite a locomotive.  Not cheap.  Not that I know anything about it, but I had to "look it up" on the net, just to see what it is.

I did find this review in the August, 2013 MRR.

http://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/staff-reviews/2013/06/video-broadway-limited-imports-paragon2-ho-scale-pennsylvania-rr-t1

It does seem like a track problem to me.

Mike.

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, March 17, 2017 6:53 AM

mobilman44
I don't recall you mentioning you were in an MR club.

It was in one of his other threads.

mobilman44
Have some of the members looked at your problem loco? BLI typically makes high quality stuff, so perhaps it is the track.

I would ask them to take a look at it.  Does anyone else have a T1 they can run through the section of track in question?   What is the radius of the curve in question?  How was the transition accomplished?

The T1 is a ridged frame model.  There is very little play in the locomotive drive train.   As far as I know there is not a way to make the front set of drivers articulate.  You might check to see if the pilot truck (the first set of 4) is tracking properly and is not picking the locomotive up slightly (I have seen this happen with other locomotives, but not necessarily the T1).  It is entirely possible that there is a track issue, especially if the track was not laid with long ridgid frame locomotives in mind. 

I would not recommend hacking up your T1.

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Posted by mobilman44 on Friday, March 17, 2017 5:50 AM

I don't recall you mentioning you were in an MR club.  Have some of the members looked at your problem loco?   BLI typically makes high quality stuff, so perhaps it is the track.

Have to say, it seems odd you would have a wonderful loco like a BLI T1 and not have a layout or other MR "stuff". 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Broadway Limited Imports Pennsylvania Railroad T-1 4-4-4-4 Duplex Derailment Troubles
Posted by NWP SWP on Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:52 PM

Hi, I got a BLI PRR T-1 and at my club the loco keeps derailing as it goes through a section of superelevated track. I spent about 20 minutes observing the loco running back and forth over that section of track till I came to the conclusion that the front driver truck does not have enough "play" to traverse slightly superelevated track without the front drivers jumping the track. How can I add some "play" to the truck to allow it to navigate the turn?

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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