ATLANTIC CENTRAL CHARLES STEINMETZ All I can say is stay tuned. Well, even though I will most likely never change over to it, I am a big supporter of any direct radio approach to command control for model trains. I do think it is a simpler, better approach than sending the signal through the rails. But BlueRail leaves me cold.......as a "user interface" I hate smart phones, and tablets are too big for this purpose (don't like them much better anyway). No touch screens for me thank you. I want a throttle I can hold and control with one hand....without a touch screen. Sheldon
CHARLES STEINMETZ All I can say is stay tuned.
Well, even though I will most likely never change over to it, I am a big supporter of any direct radio approach to command control for model trains. I do think it is a simpler, better approach than sending the signal through the rails.
But BlueRail leaves me cold.......as a "user interface" I hate smart phones, and tablets are too big for this purpose (don't like them much better anyway). No touch screens for me thank you.
I want a throttle I can hold and control with one hand....without a touch screen.
Sheldon
I agree with Sheldon, if it involves a touch screen, I'll change the channel. I use paper and pencil to develop work lists/shopping lists for the hobby shop/etc...
Speaking of the future of model railroading, how about a coffee shop that sells model trains?
You need to dream larger dreams. I was thinking something along the line of Dunkin Donuts selling trains. Absent that, train shops selling Dunkin Donuts and coffee.
Andre
JEREMY CENTANNIHeadphones? I don't think so. The best bet now and for the anywhere near term future would be some effects on the locomotive itself coupled with a "rolling thunder" type system. Its physics. You will never get the feeling of being trackside while they go by in notch 8 in a smalllllllllllllllllllllllllllll speaker.
The technology has already passed headphones and rolling thunder. What everyone needs is a full size SD-45 cab in their garage connected to a video feed from a camera mounted on a train upstairs on the layout:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMyl0hQg5ec
Again with the mundane, tiny dreams. Do what Warren Buffett did. Buy your own railroad. Then you're not limited by the confines of buildings (even ones the size of megastores).
andrechapelonAgain with the mundane, tiny dreams. Do what Warren Buffett did. Buy your own railroad. Then you're not limited by the confines of buildings (even ones the size of megastores). Andre
Why do that when you have Train Sim? TS puts you in the engineer's seat. You can switch cars or run a local,passenger train or freight train.
The age of technology will move the hobby forward. You can already ride in your engine's cab by using a mini gopro cam and flat screen TV, your smart phone or ipad.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Hardly the same thing and about as realistic as those driving simulators they used in driver's ed. in the very early 60's. I sat there doing nothing once just as an experiment. Amazingly, the car on the movie screen did exactly what it was supposed to without any input whatsoever from me.
I've played with train sims. Not interested.
No, he makes a very good point. Train sims are, in a way, more realistic than our models. The routes are close to prototype perfect, and the train handling is much more nuanced - when was the last time you had to plan ahead for your descent down your 1+% grade and worry about your air? Does the tinny sound from your HO scale speaker really compare to a computer subwoofer, and can you stand trackside and hear the roar, doppler, and fade as the tiny train passes you?
They're cheaper by an order of magnitude, if not two, and it's easier to scratchbuild any unit that's not available - not to mention the universality of scale.
On top of that, you can have as few or as many runs as you want, and easily change grades and curves if you so choose.
So, with all that in favour of simulators, what is it that keeps us coming back to modeling? Why would someone like myself, who got MSTS and Trainz long before he started building, want to come up against all these limitations to pursue a layout?
That question isn't rhetorical, I'm honestly interested in what answers you'll come up with.
Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296
Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
trainboyH16-44So, with all that in favour of simulators, what is it that keeps us coming back to modeling? Why would someone like myself, who got MSTS and Trainz long before he started building, want to come up against all these limitations to pursue a layout?
1. Building models and/or layout is fun, plus your actually handling something tangible.
2. You have a railfan viewpoint while operating the train.
3. The model train is a real object responding to your controls.
All of which is not to say that simutlators can't be fun - it's just a different kind of fun.
Paul
Train sims are quite nice - if you are into computer games. But they don´t give you that "Warren Buffet" feeling of owning a railroad, albeit a model one. And they don´t give you the pride of having dreamed it, planned it and finally built it, using your own imgaination and creativity, and not somebody else´s. Add to that the multitude of skills which you develop along the way.
Operating a train with a computer train simulator is for me like a a guy living in a high rise condo and playing "my little farm" on his computer.
There is much more to life than what just fits onto a computer screen.
Sir MadogOperating a train with a computer train simulator is for me like a a guy living in a high rise condo and playing "my little farm" on his computer.
I guess you haven't had the pleasure of hearing 567s or 645s at work..The speakers or headphones will put you in the cab and is far more realistic then our HO sounds. Ever load a empty coal train at a flood loader? Ever go up or down Sandpatch? How about running a Amtrak commuter train between Washington and Baltimore while making station stops?
TS requires more skill then running our models.
BRAKIE Sir Madog Operating a train with a computer train simulator is for me like a a guy living in a high rise condo and playing "my little farm" on his computer. I guess you haven't had the pleasure of hearing 567s or 645s at work..The speakers or headphones will put you in the cab and is far more realistic then our HO sounds. Ever load a empty coal train at a flood loader? Ever go up or down Sandpatch? How about running a Amtrak commuter train between Washington and Baltimore while making station stops? TS requires more skill then running our models.
Sir Madog Operating a train with a computer train simulator is for me like a a guy living in a high rise condo and playing "my little farm" on his computer.
Again, a train sim is a different kind of fun, not for me thank you.
But, my primary goal in model railroading is not to "play engineer", part of the reason I do not care for sound in small scales.
Everyone in this hobby is drawn to it for different reasons, everyone enjoys it in different ways.
I have no interest in computer games of ANY kind, never really played one. The whole idea makes my eyes glaze over in boredom.....
As does sitting in a full size cab mockup to run a model train......
If I wanted that experiance, I would drive up to Strasburg and apply for a job.......
ATLANTIC CENTRALEveryone in this hobby is drawn to it for different reasons, everyone enjoys it in different ways.
I fully agree.. I would rather switch cars on my ISL then on the computer screen but,its still fun on the computer.
I guess I've always been open minded to such things and that's what makes my retirement enjoyable. I have tons of time to do as I please and I'm never bored like some retirees.
I enjoy the hobby,video gaming railfaning and fishing-a full plate of fun.
BRAKIETS requires more skill then running our models.
That may very well be, but it´s not my cup of tea. It is a completely different hobby than model railroading and therefore has nothing to do with the future of it.
Just my maybe not so humble opinion.
Sir MadogIt is a completely different hobby than model railroading and therefore has nothing to do with the future of it.
TS may lead to new modelers and with DCC/Sound and the use of a smart phone or ipad as a throttle.. I wouldn't want to bet the farm either way..My youngest Grandson isn't into model trains but likes TS. Maybe there's hope yet?
My oldest Grandson buys DCC/Sound locomotives from Atlas and Geneses and high detailed cars and could care less for video games.
BRAKIE Sir Madog It is a completely different hobby than model railroading and therefore has nothing to do with the future of it. TS may lead to new modelers and with DCC/Sound and the use of a smart phone or ipad as a throttle.. I wouldn't want to bet the farm either way..My youngest Grandson isn't into model trains but likes TS. Maybe there's hope yet? My oldest Grandson buys DCC/Sound locomotives from Atlas and Geneses and high detailed cars and could care less for video games.
Sir Madog It is a completely different hobby than model railroading and therefore has nothing to do with the future of it.
And here we go again. I have no "mission" to "save" the hobby, save young people from pop culture, or recruit new people young or old.
Still happy with my quiet DC powered trains.....
I have a personality flaw, I have never felt the need or desire to control, influence, direct, or have sway over another person. Any attempts at the above have always seemed unsuccessful and required tremedous unpleasant effort. Any influence I have ever had over anyone has simply been luck or divine providence.......
Larry,
I gave my son all the works - from a Playmobil train set when he was 3 years old, to LGB when he was 8 years to one of the early train simulators when he was 12. He never developed an interest in trains or model railroads. Things would have been different, had I given him a Lego train set, as he loved to "work" with Lego bricks. The little one is now 30 years old and has a summa *** laude degree in computer engineering science. His hobby? No trains, but dioramas and those dreadful looking war hammer figures.
Incidentally, I recently saw an interview with Florian Sieber, the new boss of Marklin, who, for the first time in decades, was proud to report a growing customer base. He owes this to a new line of kid´s trains and a budget line in the key market of 3-rail AC HO scale trains. The budget line is not as detailed as the premium line, but still sufficiently detailed and at the same level of engineering and built quality.
May be there is a lesson to be learned in this with respect to the future of model railroading.
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd here we go again. I have no "mission" to "save" the hobby, save young people from pop culture, or recruit new people young or old.
Nor do I.. I just stated one enjoys the hobby by his choice and the other does not by his choice. Brothers with different hobbies.
My son was never really interested in model trains although he enjoy running trains on my N Scale door layout when he was a kid. He was always more interested in building and studying computer science and that became his profession. My daughter collects Chessie the cat memorabilia but,I suspect that's because she loves cats.
I also enjoy DC as well as DCC and DCC/Sound. That's why I have a Tech 6. A simple push of the button gives me the best of both worlds.
This morning I used my SCL BB GP35 to switch older BB 50' boxcars- my old school hobby enjoyment.
Sir MadogIncidentally, I recently saw an interview with Florian Sieber, the new boss of Marklin, who, for the first time in decades, was proud to report a growing customer base. He owes this to a new line of kid´s trains and a budget line in the key market of 3-rail AC HO scale trains. The budget line is not as detailed as the premium line, but still sufficiently detailed and at the same level of engineering and built quality. May be there is a lesson to be learned in this with respect to the future of model railroading.
Mike
Sir MadogBut they don´t give you that "Warren Buffet" feeling of owning a railroad,
Railroad Tycoon?
It is all about the models themselves for me. The layout is merely the place to run them, and I do not need any sound to appreciate a good steamer. Now as a civil engineer certain aspects of layout construction and scenery come easier to me, but it is still about the locomotives for me.
PRR8259 It is all about the models themselves for me. The layout is merely the place to run them, and I do not need any sound to appreciate a good steamer. Now as a civil engineer certain aspects of layout construction and scenery come easier to me, but it is still about the locomotives for me.
So here is an interesting twist, for me it is about the "package", the layout, the scenery, the operation, and the trains - but I don't need sound either.
It is my belief that sound appeals the most to those who enjoy the idea of being the engineer.
While I can be the engineer, I'm equally happy as a "rail fan" model viewer (one of the reasons my layouts must have continous run ability).
Ever watch real trains from any distance, the sounds are mostly "in the background".
ATLANTIC CENTRALIt is my belief that sound appeals the most to those who enjoy the idea of being the engineer.
In my case I'm doing the job as a brakeman and sound comes natural when you're up close and personal even if its no more then the clicky clack as the engine silently drifts by your location..Our sounds will never match the sound of prototype switching but,it beats nothing and I freely admit after 30-40 minutes I push F8.
I spend the majority of the time reading fright car numbers and checking the switch list. Once I get the engine moving I shut off the throttle and she will drift to where I need it to stop thanks to momentum and speed step.
BMMECNYC Sir Madog But they don´t give you that "Warren Buffet" feeling of owning a railroad, Railroad Tycoon?
Sir Madog But they don´t give you that "Warren Buffet" feeling of owning a railroad,
BRAKIE ATLANTIC CENTRAL It is my belief that sound appeals the most to those who enjoy the idea of being the engineer. In my case I'm doing the job as a brakeman and sound comes natural when you're up close and personal even if its no more then the clicky clack as the engine silently drifts by your location..Our sounds will never match the sound of prototype switching but,it beats nothing and I freely admit after 30-40 minutes I push F8. I spend the majority of the time reading fright car numbers and checking the switch list. Once I get the engine moving I shut off the throttle and she will drift to where I need it to stop thanks to momentum and speed step.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL It is my belief that sound appeals the most to those who enjoy the idea of being the engineer.
Same point, many who like sound are into that "up close and personal" experiance.
If I wanted that I would model in a much larger scale, like two rail O scale.......or bigger.
Water Level Route BMMECNYC Sir Madog But they don´t give you that "Warren Buffet" feeling of owning a railroad, Railroad Tycoon? RRT2 is still one of my favorite games. Loads of fun.
RRT2 is still one of my favorite games. Loads of fun.
Ive got RRT2 and RRT3. Like the stock maninpulation part of 3.
ATLANTIC CENTRALSame point, many who like sound are into that "up close and personal" experiance. If I wanted that I would model in a much larger scale, like two rail O scale.......or bigger. Sheldon
The prototype would be better but,then you may see the hobby differently. 9 1/2 years braking and you know our sound is lacking especially switching sounds since there's far more to it then "brake squeal" and "coupler sounds".. Railroading is very noisy its the nature of the beast.
Do I need sound for up and personal? No,but,its nice -well,for awhile then its F8 time and the sound of silence is indeed golden.
BMMECNYCIve got RRT2 and RRT3. Like the stock maninpulation part of 3.
I really wanted to like RRT3 but just couldn't. Though the stock market set-up may have been better, and I loved the changes to track building (tunnels anyone?), I did not care for the changes to other areas like locomotive servicing and the economic model as a whole. And I'm pretty forgiving when it comes to a train game! Sid Meier's Railroads still gets regular use and even Railroad Pioneer is worth it once in a while, but don't pay full price for it. Wait for Steam to have it on sale.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL ATLANTIC CENTRAL It is my belief that sound appeals the most to those who enjoy the idea of being the engineer. Same point, many who like sound are into that "up close and personal" experiance. If I wanted that I would model in a much larger scale, like two rail O scale.......or bigger. Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
That's an accurate observation, IMO.
I view playing the role of dispatcher, managing 25 thirty-car trains for instance, as approaching the hobby from a broader, 30,000 foot level as opposed to an "up close and personal" level. If I approached the hobby that way, I would switch to N scale.
Neither is better. Its just a different choice of how to focus one's interest in the hobby.
In all themes and scales, more detail is better than less, and more space is better than less, but since nearly everbody has to make a choice in one way or another, how they choose to approach the hobby tends to dictate what products and technology is more important than others. Allen McClelland coined the phrase "good enough" when it came to detail because spending too much time detailing a model took time away from running trains. I can see where Lance Mindheim's style is different than McClelland's, so different products become more relevant than others.
Maybe because I work with computers and numbers (pen, paper, and calculators in the old days) every day as a financial analyst, I tend to spend my hobby time in the artful presentation aspects of the hobby more so than the regimented logic of working with electrical schematics and running multiple trains on time. Others may be different, but that seems to be my approach and why.
If it weren't for the little bit of extra accuracy and detail provided by (the substantially unrealistic) onboard sound, I'd run DC using Aristocraft wireless throttles forever. But since I run sound, any way to keep a switcher from stalling over a frog without resorting to wiring circuits inside the shell or under the layout, I'd be interested in following.
- Douglas
While some have done their best to not answer your question, in reality, they have provided you with just that. The asnwer to your question is because it isn't like really operating a 1:1 locomotive. That is indeed a fine answer because they have interests that aren't as much about the trains as it is about building structures, or scenery, or certainly running trains. Some care about the operations and I have operated on layouts that were distinctly more realistic than others. That said, I love the sims, both the RRT and TS. I love the business model and the building of an empire aspect of RRT and I love the actual machinery operation of TS. Neither, nor both together, fufill the creativity of building a model and running it through a scene. All related in relationship of the topic of railroading but none are the same in what they focus on in order to accomplish their purpose. In the end I just enjoy aspects of all three. I also don't mind turning some youth onto model railroading. While Sheldon may not be out to save the world I do my best to make an attempt at it.
Doughless But since I run sound, any way to keep a switcher from stalling over a frog without resorting to wiring circuits inside the shell or under the layout, I'd be interested in following.
That I don't understand that the problem and I end up scratching my head every time I read about that problem. I never had a issue with my Atlas or Athearn end cab switchers stalling over frogs at slow switching speeds.
I think everybody on this forum knows my thing in the hobby is switching and anybody that has switch cars knows you gotta be up close and personal unlike kicking back and turning on the juice and watch a train run endless loops.
While I enjoy switching cars on TS I still perfer switching on my ISL.