The "Forty and Eight" boxcar (so named because it could hold 40 men or 8 horses) was used extensively in both WWI and WWII and was the standard boxcar during that period. It was used for hauling everything from war materials to POWs. However, regardless that this was the most common boxcar in early to mid 1900's, I can't seem to find any in a kit. I would at least expect an European manufacturer to make one.
I've had this dream of recreating the train seen in the 1965 Von Ryan's Experss movie since I first saw it over 50 years ago and would sure like to find a dozen or so of the boxcar kits in HO (preferably in easy-to-build plastic).
Harvey
I don't know about kits, which have gone out of fashion, but there are plenty on Ebay if you search European Boxcar...Roco, Fleischman, Marklin.
If you are ever in DC be sure to see the Holocaust Museum.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
During WW II, Deutsche Reichsbahn used just about any type of "covered freight car" to move men and material they could get hold of in the occupied countries, in addition to own stock.
Typical box cars would be either this one:
or this one
or this one:
Note that the lettering does not show the period emblem.
They are not available as kits.
They are made by Piko and available through reynaulds.com in the US.
Woo Hoo!
Thanks MD!
After WWII the French people sent 49 40 and 8 boxcars to the US with "gifts of gratitude" for the relief goods sent from the US to France. There was one car for each of the 48 states with the 49th shared by the District of Columbia and Hawaii Territory. There is a website that gives the history of the Merci cars with links each state with information about that state's car. Unfortunately, most of the cars have fallen into disrepair and many were scrapped. The Maine Merci car is on display at Boothbay Railway Village, and was restored in 2009 to mark the 50th anniversary. The artifacts from that car are in the Maine State Museum in Augusta; some are shown in the second link, below.
http://www.mercitrain.org/
http://mercitrain.org/Maine/
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
The term "40 and 8" is a new one to me. In Germany, they were referred to as "covererd freight wagon", for which the letter "G" was used. In railroader slang, they were called G10´s or G20´s, G for "Gedeckter (covered) Güterwagen" and the 10 resp. 20 indicating the first year of manufacture.
Here's what looks to be a French version:
Ed
Sir Madog The term "40 and 8" is a new one to me. In Germany, they were referred to as "covererd freight wagon", for which the letter "G" was used. In railroader slang, they were called G10´s or G20´s, G for "Gedeckter (covered) Güterwagen" and the 10 resp. 20 indicating the first year of manufacture.
George:
Thanks for sharing that very interesting bit of WWII history. I had never heard of the gift trains before.
Cheers!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
andrechapelon Sir Madog The term "40 and 8" is a new one to me. In Germany, they were referred to as "covererd freight wagon", for which the letter "G" was used. In railroader slang, they were called G10´s or G20´s, G for "Gedeckter (covered) Güterwagen" and the 10 resp. 20 indicating the first year of manufacture. They were called 40 and 8 because they would hold 40 men or 8 horses. Andre
... maybe in the US or the UK, but not here.
...or France.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty-and-eights
Merci Train
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merci_Train
And more...
http://www.fortyandeight.org
As a boy, our next door neighbors were a couple old men who had fought in the Great War. They sometimes mentioned the 40 and 8's, but being a kid, I didn't pay as close attention as I should have.
mike
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/4309
Just to clarify, the "40 and 8" freight car was a French railroad car, not German. I'm sure German cars of the time were probably similar however.
I haven't seen "Von Ryan's Express" for a long time, but I do recall that the movie is set in Italy, not Germany...so I'm not sure if the train was made up of German equipment, or Italian?
During WW II, you could find those 4-wheeler boxcars of any occupied country (which includes Italy in 1944) in freight trains. A typical train could have been made up of German, French, Italian, Czech, Polish, Hungarian, formerly Austrain and whatever car was available.
wjstix Just to clarify, the "40 and 8" freight car was a French railroad car, not German. I'm sure German cars of the time were probably similar however. I haven't seen "Von Ryan's Express" for a long time, but I do recall that the movie is set in Italy, not Germany...so I'm not sure if the train was made up of German equipment, or Italian?
It was Italian. The locomotive on the train was a 740 class 2-8-0, The chase train in the movie used a locomotive of the same class rebuilt with a Franco-Crosti boiler. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FS_Class_740 .
Franco-Crosti boiler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Crosti_boiler
Andre
Posted by Sir Madog on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 10:44 AM
andrechapelonThe chase train in the movie used a locomotive of the same class rebuilt with a Franco-Crosti boiler.
The conversion of the FS class 740 into the Franco-Crosti boiler equipped class 741 started after WW II in 1950, so that bit was not really authentic.
Sir Madog andrechapelon The chase train in the movie used a locomotive of the same class rebuilt with a Franco-Crosti boiler. The conversion of the FS class 740 into the Franco-Crosti boiler equipped class 741 started after WW II in 1950, so that bit was not really authentic.
andrechapelon The chase train in the movie used a locomotive of the same class rebuilt with a Franco-Crosti boiler.
Neither was the scene in "The Train" where a locomotive depot was being bombed and you could see 141-R's, which were postwar imports from the US and Canada.
Movie folks will call it "artistic license", but for me, it spoils the movie.
I remember a movie about the great British train robbery of the 1960´s. The film was a German production, so the train ran on the wrong side of the tracks and was headed by a DB class V 200 Diesel with Deutsche Bundesbahn in capital letters written on the sides.
Oh dear!
IIRC, the design of the SNCF class 141R "Liberation" Mikados was based on the USRRA Light Mikados, but with some specific European modifications, i.e. buffers, lower cab height, smoke deflectors, etc.
Back to the OP (and back on topic), Rivarossi makes the loco which pulled Colonel Von Ryan´s Express.
FS class 740
I love steam locomotives, in ANY language!
Thanks for the video!!!
Actually, it was based on Green Bay & Western 2-8-2's https://books.google.com/books/about/Steam_Locomotives_of_France.html?id=cIzSbwAACAAJ
Although the GB&W engines bore some resemblance to the USRA lights http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mikado/gbw401-builders.jpg , they weren't actually USRA engines.
There are some interesting "quick pic books" by BHI that show Military Rail Service equip diagrams for US, German, French and Italian equipment of WWII:
http://quickpicbooks.homestead.com/Folios/folio_index.html
The European clearance plate is smaller than the basic AAR clearance plate B, to say nothing of the bigger plates, and the British clearance plate is smaller still. So American-built locmotives for European service were much smaller than their counterparts built for American railroads.
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
Ulrich was the dog house on the end of the boxcar a military feature or a railroad feature?
BigDaddy Ulrich was the dog house on the end of the boxcar a military feature or a railroad feature?
It's a brakeman's cabin to keep the poor schlub out of the weather.
http://www.worldrailfans.info/Articles/Europe/GG10.shtml
andrechapelon wjstix Just to clarify, the "40 and 8" freight car was a French railroad car, not German. I'm sure German cars of the time were probably similar however. I haven't seen "Von Ryan's Express" for a long time, but I do recall that the movie is set in Italy, not Germany...so I'm not sure if the train was made up of German equipment, or Italian? It was Italian. The locomotive on the train was a 740 class 2-8-0, The chase train in the movie used a locomotive of the same class rebuilt with a Franco-Crosti boiler. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FS_Class_740 . Franco-Crosti boiler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Crosti_boiler Andre
I recall from an old (c.1985) Rivarossi catalogue that they had a fairly extensive line of Italian equipment - not surprising for an Italian company! I don't know how much of that, if any, is still made, but you might still find some of the older stuff online somewhere.
Even though a real train like that c.1944 might have a mix of different country's equipment, I'd assume the train in the movie was all Italian. So it would come down to whether you wanted to model the 1960's train in the movie, or what the train would have been if it had happened in real life in the 1940's.
A bit of artistic license there. The filmakers used the Franco-Crosti boilered locomotive for the chase train because to them, it looked "evil."
Those F-C locomotives are a bit bizarre looking at any rate.
Oh, and there's two of those gift "40 and 8" boxcars on the East Coast that I've seen, both in very good condition. One's in the B&O Museum in Baltimore, and one's at the Strasburg Railroad in Pennslyvania, at least it was the last time I was there, maybe ten years ago.
Firelock76 A bit of artistic license there. The filmakers used the Franco-Crosti boilered locomotive for the chase train because to them, it looked "evil."
That's not the first time I heard that. If true, the producers accomplished their goal because the Nazi chase train definitely looked antagonistic and threatening!
Firelock76 Oh, and there's two of those gift "40 and 8" boxcars on the East Coast that I've seen, both in very good condition. One's in the B&O Museum in Baltimore, and one's at the Strasburg Railroad in Pennslyvania, at least it was the last time I was there, maybe ten years ago.
The USAF Museum in Dayton had one on dispaly when I was there about ten years ago.
There was also one at the Ft Indiantown Gap National Guard Base when I was there about 12 years ago.
And a bit closer to home (mine), I've heard that there's one at the Camp Mabry National Guard Museum in Austin, TX but I haven't had the opportunity to check it out yet.