andrechapelonThey were called 40 and 8 because they would hold 40 men or 8 horses.
.
I always thought they should be called a "40 OR 8".
Or maybe "20 and 4", but I'll bet that would have been very uncomfortable.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Looks great!
This is my current Model Railroad project Paper model. I manipulated the photo of the prototype (previous post) in Corel Paint Shop Pro to correct the perspective. Then using copy/past overlayed it on a on a paper HO model Dutch car (free download http://www.schaalbouw.nl/produkt.htm ) and modified the ends on the download to match the French car.
Pictures are of results printed in O scale. Initial mock-up to check fit of parts.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
B&O Museum...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127696208@N08/albums/72157649340868244
Ed
Harvey's right, as far as pilots and aviation fans like myself are concerned the aircraft are the REAL stars of the film! And don't waste our time with CGI, as good as it is it ain't good enough! Those airplanes still look phoney!
And thanks for those photos Mr. Schmitt! That's a 40 and 8 car all right! And HOW did they get 40 Doughboys in one of those things? Talk about standing room only!
Oh well. As we used to say in the Marines "Don't walk if you can ride!"
By the way, has anyone here read the novel "Von Ryan's Express?" A lot better than the movie. The movie's pretty good, but doesn't do the novel justice.
Ogdon UT July 2010
And to back up what Firelock said, most (if not all) of the flyable reproductions in Those Magnificent Young Men in Their Flying Machines used modern aircraft engines. But not many pilots turned up their noses and stormed out of the theaters because the producer exercised a little artistic license.
David Westheimer, the author of the book "Von Ryan's Express", was a POW during WWII and even spent some time in a POW boxcar himself. However, he never intended his novel to be a factual documentary of a particular POW movement. Nonetheless, that's never stopped all of the railroad and war movie fans from seeing the movie when it first came out (sometimes multiple times) and buying the video cassette and DVD when they came out, so it seems that some artistic license is often acceptable.
Same with The Great Escape, Twelve O'clock High, Kelly's Heroes, Young Frankenstein, My Favorite Martian...
Harvey
You know, sometimes a little artistic license doesn't hurt anyone or anything.
Cas in point, and admittedly having nothing to do with trains or model railroading...
Ever see that fine World War One aviation film "The Blue Max?" The Pfaltz D3 replica flown by George Peppard in the film (yes, he really did some of his own flying!) is now in the collection of an aviation museum in New Zealand. After 40 years the plane was in serious need of restoration so the musuem had a choice. Should they restore it to look like a real Pfaltz, or as it looked in the movie?
Well, the folks at the musuem said "What the hell, it's not a real Pfaltz, it's a replica, and a movie star as well!" so they restored it to the way it looked in the film. Nobody complains, and the "Blue Max" fans enjoy it as it is. When they see it, it's like meeting an old friend.
Search "You Tube Pfaltz D3" and you can see it yourself. It looks good!
PS: Look for the footage of the Pfaltz with the lozenge camoflage. There's more than one.
Firelock76 Oh, and there's two of those gift "40 and 8" boxcars on the East Coast that I've seen, both in very good condition. One's in the B&O Museum in Baltimore, and one's at the Strasburg Railroad in Pennslyvania, at least it was the last time I was there, maybe ten years ago.
Oh, and there's two of those gift "40 and 8" boxcars on the East Coast that I've seen, both in very good condition. One's in the B&O Museum in Baltimore, and one's at the Strasburg Railroad in Pennslyvania, at least it was the last time I was there, maybe ten years ago.
The USAF Museum in Dayton had one on dispaly when I was there about ten years ago.
There was also one at the Ft Indiantown Gap National Guard Base when I was there about 12 years ago.
And a bit closer to home (mine), I've heard that there's one at the Camp Mabry National Guard Museum in Austin, TX but I haven't had the opportunity to check it out yet.
Firelock76 A bit of artistic license there. The filmakers used the Franco-Crosti boilered locomotive for the chase train because to them, it looked "evil."
A bit of artistic license there. The filmakers used the Franco-Crosti boilered locomotive for the chase train because to them, it looked "evil."
That's not the first time I heard that. If true, the producers accomplished their goal because the Nazi chase train definitely looked antagonistic and threatening!
Sir Madog andrechapelon The chase train in the movie used a locomotive of the same class rebuilt with a Franco-Crosti boiler. The conversion of the FS class 740 into the Franco-Crosti boiler equipped class 741 started after WW II in 1950, so that bit was not really authentic.
andrechapelon The chase train in the movie used a locomotive of the same class rebuilt with a Franco-Crosti boiler.
The conversion of the FS class 740 into the Franco-Crosti boiler equipped class 741 started after WW II in 1950, so that bit was not really authentic.
Those F-C locomotives are a bit bizarre looking at any rate.
andrechapelon wjstix Just to clarify, the "40 and 8" freight car was a French railroad car, not German. I'm sure German cars of the time were probably similar however. I haven't seen "Von Ryan's Express" for a long time, but I do recall that the movie is set in Italy, not Germany...so I'm not sure if the train was made up of German equipment, or Italian? It was Italian. The locomotive on the train was a 740 class 2-8-0, The chase train in the movie used a locomotive of the same class rebuilt with a Franco-Crosti boiler. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FS_Class_740 . Franco-Crosti boiler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Crosti_boiler Andre
wjstix Just to clarify, the "40 and 8" freight car was a French railroad car, not German. I'm sure German cars of the time were probably similar however. I haven't seen "Von Ryan's Express" for a long time, but I do recall that the movie is set in Italy, not Germany...so I'm not sure if the train was made up of German equipment, or Italian?
Just to clarify, the "40 and 8" freight car was a French railroad car, not German. I'm sure German cars of the time were probably similar however.
I haven't seen "Von Ryan's Express" for a long time, but I do recall that the movie is set in Italy, not Germany...so I'm not sure if the train was made up of German equipment, or Italian?
It was Italian. The locomotive on the train was a 740 class 2-8-0, The chase train in the movie used a locomotive of the same class rebuilt with a Franco-Crosti boiler. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FS_Class_740 .
Franco-Crosti boiler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Crosti_boiler
Andre
I recall from an old (c.1985) Rivarossi catalogue that they had a fairly extensive line of Italian equipment - not surprising for an Italian company! I don't know how much of that, if any, is still made, but you might still find some of the older stuff online somewhere.
Even though a real train like that c.1944 might have a mix of different country's equipment, I'd assume the train in the movie was all Italian. So it would come down to whether you wanted to model the 1960's train in the movie, or what the train would have been if it had happened in real life in the 1940's.
BigDaddy Ulrich was the dog house on the end of the boxcar a military feature or a railroad feature?
Ulrich was the dog house on the end of the boxcar a military feature or a railroad feature?
It's a brakeman's cabin to keep the poor schlub out of the weather.
http://www.worldrailfans.info/Articles/Europe/GG10.shtml
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
There are some interesting "quick pic books" by BHI that show Military Rail Service equip diagrams for US, German, French and Italian equipment of WWII:
http://quickpicbooks.homestead.com/Folios/folio_index.html
The European clearance plate is smaller than the basic AAR clearance plate B, to say nothing of the bigger plates, and the British clearance plate is smaller still. So American-built locmotives for European service were much smaller than their counterparts built for American railroads.
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
IIRC, the design of the SNCF class 141R "Liberation" Mikados was based on the USRRA Light Mikados, but with some specific European modifications, i.e. buffers, lower cab height, smoke deflectors, etc.
Actually, it was based on Green Bay & Western 2-8-2's https://books.google.com/books/about/Steam_Locomotives_of_France.html?id=cIzSbwAACAAJ
Although the GB&W engines bore some resemblance to the USRA lights http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mikado/gbw401-builders.jpg , they weren't actually USRA engines.
I love steam locomotives, in ANY language!
Thanks for the video!!!
Movie folks will call it "artistic license", but for me, it spoils the movie.
I remember a movie about the great British train robbery of the 1960´s. The film was a German production, so the train ran on the wrong side of the tracks and was headed by a DB class V 200 Diesel with Deutsche Bundesbahn in capital letters written on the sides.
Oh dear!
Back to the OP (and back on topic), Rivarossi makes the loco which pulled Colonel Von Ryan´s Express.
FS class 740
Neither was the scene in "The Train" where a locomotive depot was being bombed and you could see 141-R's, which were postwar imports from the US and Canada.
andrechapelonThe chase train in the movie used a locomotive of the same class rebuilt with a Franco-Crosti boiler.
Posted by Sir Madog on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 10:44 AM
During WW II, you could find those 4-wheeler boxcars of any occupied country (which includes Italy in 1944) in freight trains. A typical train could have been made up of German, French, Italian, Czech, Polish, Hungarian, formerly Austrain and whatever car was available.
mike
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/4309
And more...
http://www.fortyandeight.org
As a boy, our next door neighbors were a couple old men who had fought in the Great War. They sometimes mentioned the 40 and 8's, but being a kid, I didn't pay as close attention as I should have.
...or France.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty-and-eights
Merci Train
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merci_Train