Which heavyweight car kits are easier to build (for a beginner)? The old vintage Walthers wood and metal kits or the newer Branchline plastic kits?
So far I´ve only built 6 Roundhouse Palace car kits, which actually was an easy thing for me to do. But those heavyweight kits look way more complex. This is why I´m asking.
Personally, I´m not a detail fanatic and I always do prefer metal carsides over plastic ones. That´s why I took those old Walthers kits into consideration.
By the way do these old Walthers heavyweight kits come with interiors included, or must interiors be purchased separately?
Wow, that's a tough one. They are so completely different and need somewhat different skills to build. The old Walthers kits rquire you to shape the ends of the wood roof in many cases. There were newer versions with a molded plastic roof, but otherwise the rest was the same. The Branchline kits are plastic, but there are tons of tiny details and it takes some good techniques to be able to get them off the sprue without damaging them. One of the more crazy things about the Branchline kits is that the safety chains are built up link by link (by you).
It all depends on what you are used to. If you've onle ever built plastic kits before, the Branchline kits will just be a very challenging plastic kit, while the Walthers kits will be something complete different. If you have experience building wood kits, you may find the Walthers kits easier.
The Branchline kits will be WAY better detailed. They really are kind of like plastic kits of brass models. Practically nothing is molded in, all details are built up and added seperately.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
De Luxe Personally, I´m not a detail fanatic and I always do prefer metal carsides over plastic ones. That´s why I took those old Walthers kits into consideration. By the way do these old Walthers heavyweight kits come with interiors included, or must interiors be purchased separately?
Generally, they did not come with interiors. The Piker came with one, though. I've also got a Walthers special-run car (NYC diner) and it MAY have come with an interior. But, generally, they didn't. Walthers sold interior kits separately. There were also superdetailing kits.
I think the sides were/are steel. I never tried to drill the sides for grabirons on my kit--way too intimidating. And if they're to look good, they need their grabs.
One plus with the Walthers line was variety. Kinda. Branchline made only 4 sleepers and two coaches. Walthers shows in my 1961 catalog 4 baggage, 2 baggage-mail, 2 60' mail, 5 coaches, 3 combines, 3 modernized coaches, 2 sleepers, a diner, an obs and a solarium. And a business car.
With the exception of the belt rail, the Walthers cars look pretty good to me.
Ed
I'm a bit ham fisted with detail kits. That said, the Branchline kits I would rate as an intermediate skill level. I've put together 4. The only thing I find disappointing about them is the trucks. I had nothing but problems with them. So I replaced them with walthers heavyweight trucks. But you will need to fiddle with details and do some carving and filling to get them to work properly and sit at the right height. But once installed they work a lot better.
Of kits with grab irons, I find the branchline kits to be easier. The holes are pre drilled. But if you are having a hard time, re-drilling with a #79 and them wetting the grab iron with a testors liquid in the bottle makes them go in real easy.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Yes, these Branchline kits are indeed crazy detailed. When I see photos of all the details that are included in these kits, I´m like "Too much details!". Even the windows need to be installed separately for every single window opening. And yes, the trucks...when I see them I already get a headache. And yes, I heard several times already that the Branchline trucks are a nightmare not only to build but also operate. Like I wrote before, I have only experience with plastic Roundhouse Palace car kits, but they are no comparison to Branchline, and I´m sure the Branchline kits would be a big challenge for me. Getting them off the sprue without damaging and all that messy glue work is really something that kept me away from these kits so far. I´m really not into this kind of work. About the Walthers kits: I saw some coming with trucks and some without. Adding matching trucks could be an additional disadvantage along with having no interiors. Interiors are a must for me, so searching for the matching interiors for the Walthers kits is something I wouldn´t like to spend time and money on. I guess I´ll have to stick with RTR stuff then. @ DigitalGriffin: How much time did you need to complete one Branchline car (including the trucks)?
De Luxe@ DigitalGriffin: How much time did you need to complete one Branchline car (including the trucks)?
Back when the Walthers stamped metal side/cast end/wood floor and roof kits were still being made and sold, Walthers also offered a cast metal template as a guide for filing down the clerestory roof end contours. They also offered metal beading for the curved ends. Those were considered to be of considerable help in building those kits - maybe not essential, but very helpful. You'd have to really scour the swap meet boxes and bins to find any.
When carefully constructed, painted and lettered, the old Walthers kits built up into a nice looking car, although it was easy to bend the sides inward inadvertently, and the end castings seemed bulky. There were also lots of after market parts, many of them from Walthers itself, for the added exterior and interior details. When all was said and done they were not cheap cars by any means.
My own hunch is that so much of the helpful "infrastructure" that surrounded the modeler back in the day of the Walthers kits is now missing that I'd go with Branchline.
Dave Nelson
Hard to beat the Branchline Kits. Don's well done, do-it-yourself truck upgrade seems to swing the balance.
The old, stamped metal and wood kits from Walthers don't hold a candle to the BL kits for appearance. The R-T-R Walthers heavyweights are very good as well.
Wow, if 10 hours is more than reasonable, then I´m pretty sure these kits are nothing for me although I must admit their level of detail is unmatched.
Yes, nowadays that helpful infrastructure is gone which makes it really difficult to upgrade these kits in the way you want it. The range of matching detail parts has become just so much smaller and hard-to-get than before.
The RTR Walthers heavyweights look very good inside and outside. Still, I´m not a fan of them as I need to modificate them in order to make them run through my curves. It´s not a big deal but still additional work. What I really dislike about them is that Walthers also has interior parts that are never visible from the outside: the upper berth! Because of those upper berths, it´s impossible for me to reach the windows in order to install window blinds without taking the carsides off. Too much additional and unnecessary work. I wish they´d never installed/modeled the upper berths.
How many body styles were available from Branchline? I have three coaches and a Pullman of some arrangement. Were there ever baggage cars or an observation car?
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-Kevin
Living the dream.
As far as I know Branchline offered 2 different coach styles (single and paired windows) as well as 14 section, 12-1, 10-1-2, 10-1-1, 8-1-2 and 6-3 sleepers but never any diner or observation.
By the way I think those old Walthers wood and metal kits were also available for at least 12-1, 10-1-2, 8-1-2 and 6-3 sleepers. I think I even once saw a kit of the rare 6-6 type.
De Luxe As far as I know Branchline offered 2 different coach styles (single and paired windows) as well as 14 section, 12-1, 10-1-2, 10-1-1, 8-1-2 and 6-3 sleepers but never any diner or observation. By the way I think those old Walthers wood and metal kits were also available for at least 12-1, 10-1-2, 8-1-2 and 6-3 sleepers. I think I even once saw a kit of the rare 6-6 type.
De Luxe As far as I know Branchline offered 2 different coach styles (single and paired windows) as well as 14 section, 12-1, 10-1-2, 10-1-1, 8-1-2 and 6-3 sleepers but never any diner or observation.
Branchline "listed" a 10-1-1. But they never "offered" it. I had mine on order for years.
Atlas, however, announced them August 2015. They are currently due first quarter 2017.
@ 7j43k: Yes I know Branchline only announced them but never released them. Now Atlas will do the job.
@dknelson: Very interesting info you gave me!!! That 6 bedroom buffet lounge car would be of highest interest for me!!! Can you maybe show me a picture of that kit or assembled car? I tried to find it via google but I couldn´t! The point is that for my Southern Pacific of Mexico El Costeno train this car would probably be the best solution! This train operated with a 6 section cafe lounge. Here is the best photo I have from this car:
On the other side of the car, there is a door in the middle vis-a-vis of these 3 little windows. Since that Walthers kit is a 6 bedroom buffet lounge, I hope the window arrangement could be similar to this 6 section cafe lounge. For now I have a normal diner running instead, but I would replace the diner with this 6 bedroom buffet lounge if it resembles the 6 section cafe lounge prototype to some extent. I definetly need some photos.
I think the better model is the Branchline models. 10 hours is likely a good time, if you have developed a style and do not count time to get the parts off the sprews. I have made up several. It seems to be better to do them a couple at a time, doing similarassemblies back to back.
P2K had plans some they announced, some that did not. The interest was not there. Will it be there for Atlas?
So many trains, so little time,
Larry
www.llxlocomotives.com
De Luxe @dknelson: Very interesting info you gave me!!! That 6 bedroom buffet lounge car would be of highest interest for me!!! Can you maybe show me a picture of that kit or assembled car? I tried to find it via google but I couldn´t! On the other side of the car, there is a door in the middle vis-a-vis of these 3 little windows. Since that Walthers kit is a 6 bedroom buffet lounge, I hope the window arrangement could be similar to this 6 section cafe lounge. For now I have a normal diner running instead, but I would replace the diner with this 6 bedroom buffet lounge if it resembles the 6 section cafe lounge prototype to some extent. I definetly need some photos.
@dknelson: Very interesting info you gave me!!! That 6 bedroom buffet lounge car would be of highest interest for me!!! Can you maybe show me a picture of that kit or assembled car? I tried to find it via google but I couldn´t!