I have a number of cars from when I was a kid that are in nice shape, except for broken steps.
I bought a few packages of replacement steps. They are very thin. At the top of each side of the step is a tiny tab, presumably for mounting into a hole.
The smallest bit I have is a Walthers #74. It is tiny, yet it seems too thick to drill into the bottoms of the cars. Alternatly, I suppose I could try gluing the small tabs to the outside bottom of the cars.
I am curious if anyone has tried this, or if there are better ways of replacing steps. Does anyone make entire ladders, including the steps, that can be glued to the existing ladders? In comparing cars from different manufacturers, it seems that the ladder steps do not line up.
I have also thought about taking some metal ladders from broken cabooses and tank cars and using these to make steps.
What are your thoughts?
I've got a set of micro drills same as these at MicroMark - the set goes from #61-80:
http://www.micromark.com/The-Rogers-Drill-Bit-Set-61-80-Set-of-20,8027.html?sc=WGB&utm_source=GoogleBase&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=GoogleBase&gclid=CKqc0v2Zs9ECFUxMDQodBVYKQg
I think I've been using a #73 from the above set to ream out the holes on my Proto 2000 50' box car kits I've been working on to get the stirrups to fit in; I could probably go a bit smaller.
BTW, what replacement stirrups are you using? The P2K stirrups are very fine and in fact break super easy.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761BTW, what replacement stirrups are you using? The P2K stirrups are very fine and in fact break super easy.
I am not sure of the manufacturer. I don't think I have the original packaging. They are made of a softer, pliable plastic. It seems like there would be plenty of give if they hit a snag.
Somewhere, probably in here, I seen an article where the modeler used staples as replacements for the stirrups on freight cars.
Mike.
My You Tube
I replace all the sill steps when I build my cars. A-Line sill steps require a No.74 or 75 drill. (I prefer the A-line steps as they are metal, the Detail Associates steps are while derlin, tend to break just as easily as the plastic ones.) Another supplier of metal sill steps is Yarmouth Models, he makes some replacements that glue to the side of the car after making a couple of bends. He also makes some for tank cars and reefers that can be used as replacements also.
http://www.yarmouthmodelworks.com/index.php/ModelDetailParts/Stirrups
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
Shock Control I have a number of cars from when I was a kid that are in nice shape, except for broken steps. I bought a few packages of replacement steps. They are very thin. At the top of each side of the step is a tiny tab, presumably for mounting into a hole. The smallest bit I have is a Walthers #74. It is tiny, yet it seems too thick to drill into the bottoms of the cars. Alternatly, I suppose I could try gluing the small tabs to the outside bottom of the cars.
SC,
Most grab iron, stirrup, and ladder installations (in HO) require a #78 (0.016") drill bit. That seems to allow the nibs at the ends to easily slide into the drilled hole but tight enough to hold it in while the adhesive dries. Sometimes the nibs can be a bit thicker so a #77 (0.018") drill bit would probably be a good investment, as well. Or...you could just invest in some #61-#80 wire gauge drill bits, as Rio suggested, and cover all bases.
Along those lines I would only hand drill with drill bits that small using a good pin vise - e.g. Starrett. You'll have better control, be able to "feel" the bit as it cuts into the material and, thereby, less likely to snap the bits. I personally wouldn't use a Dremel for that for those very reasons.
Also, I don't know what you use but I prefer liquid adhesive (e.g. Tester) for this kind of installation because I can use a small (5-0 or 10-0) paint brush to apply the adhesive right into the hole and minimize excess that can ruin the paint around the part.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I usually use A-Line steps, which are available in three different styles and are made from phosphor bronze, so they're very durable. The "legs" of them are about .020" in diameter, and I use a #75 or #76 drill, in a pin vise, to drill appropriate holes in the bottom edge of the car's sidesills.
Here's a Red Caboose X-29 boxcar under construction, showing the steps as installed:
Another view of the same car, with the step modified to add an intermediate rung:
...and one of the cars in service:
Tichy, and perhaps others, offer sill steps in engineering plastic. These, in most cases, attach to the car's sides, but the holes need to be smaller so that the mounting pins are a tight fit, as such plastic is difficult to cement in place. I have used them, but don't recall on which cars, so no photo - I don't especially care for them, as they're more fragile than the metal ones and the attachment method less positive.
Tichy also offer very nicely-done styrene ladders with integral sill steps. These are intended primarily for models of Canadian prototypes, as it was standard practice here that the end ladders on freight cars include a sill step, either as part of the ladder or a separately-applied one. There were, though, some U.S. roads which used side ladders with integral sill steps.This modified Athearn blue Box boxcar uses those ladders, mainly because the ladders are finely-done, but I cut off the step portion and use the A-Lines ones, as the plastic step, even finer than those offered on many plastic cars, is also even more fragile:
For head-end passenger equipment, I use Detail Associates flat brass bar (.010"x.030") to create my own, as seen on this modified Athearn coach:
Here's a somewhat better view of the homemade steps, this time on a former Athearn Pullman:
You could use the same material to create your own. These are mounted in the bottom of the car's sides, similar to the A-line ones. Mine, all with soldered-in intermediate steps, are quite strong, but a single-step version for a freight car won't be as durable as the ones from A-Line.
Wayne
I have cemented small blocks of styrene to the inside surface of the car side. That gives you more territory to drill the small holes for the after market steps, A Line or whatever, be they metal or plastic. Indeed, on some "difficult" cars, I have scribed, then filed, two small parallel "troughs" (for lack of a better word) in that small block of styrene the width of the stirrup step ends, so that when the block is cemented to the inside of the car side, the openings for the stirrup step are already present and it simply needs to be ACC'd in place. It may be cheating and and may not be placing the stirrup step exactly where it should be, but it works. I no longer recall what article in MR, RMC, or the NMRA Magazine contained that idea. Or perhaps it was a posting on this forum. It was not original with me (few ideas are).
In response to Mike's point above, for years Walthers sold a plastic bag of nominal "steps" that indeed were just metal staples of various sizes, oversized but some of them fairly plausible in width to represent steps: 5/32", 1/4", 11?32", 7/16", 1/2". It was 933-840 in their 1988 catalog and cost $1.98. They were likely intended for kits using wood sides and floors however, and it is years since I have seen them for sale. They had chisel points and were mildly "stuck together" just like Swingline staples. I suspect that is exactly what they were and Walthers was just repackaging.
http://picclick.ca/Walthers-Grab-Iron-Assortment-933-840-182360978936.html
Going way back, Athearn metal kits and perhaps also Varney's metal kits had a neat stirrup step that was actually L shaped and ended in a pad of metal with a hole for a screw (or to fit over a small post) on the underside of the floor. They were actually pretty close to prototype size and looked good to my eyes. I still have a supply (probably from when an outfit called Menzies offered the Athearn metal line, and parts) and now and then find a car where they can be adapted and used. When plastic cars first arrived with their cast on, oversized, but nonetheless fragile, stirrup steps, that was viewed as a big step backwards in scale fidelity versus the Athearn metal parts.
Dave Nelson
doctorwayneI usually use A-Line steps, which are available in three different styles and are made from phosphor bronze, so they're very durable.
Thanks Wayne for another detailed response!
I have been getting back into trains over the last few years after a very long absense, so I'm not up-to-date on a lot of details. Is "A-Line" a manufacturer or a descriptor? Assuming the former, are all of their steps made of phosphor bronze?
Thanks in advance!
A-Line is a division of Proto Power West, and offers a range of HO scale products.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Hey Shock Control,
A couple of suggestions regarding buying and using drill bits:
When buying micro drill bits, buy them in bulk instead of a set with one of each different size. The problem with the sets is that if you break a drill, you are out of luck. You are forced to go to another size. If you buy several of the same size drills in a range of sizes you will have back up bits of the same size if you break one. You don't need to buy every single size in the range. I would suggest starting with a few #79s, and then some #77s, #75s etc. etc.. Notice that I don't suggest buying #80s. They break far too easily. The next size up #79s are much more durable and the difference in the size of hole will easily be filled with a little CA. Most hobby suppliers can sell you the bits in bulk and they aren't all that expensive.
The other suggestion involves how to avoid breaking bits at all. Micro bits break when they are flexed. If you have a lot of the bit projecting from the pin vice there will be a lot of flex. Instead, chuck the bit so that there is only enough of the tip of the bit showing to go through the material you are drilling. For purposes of installing stirups the bit only needs to stick out of the pin vice by 1/4" or so. That allows for very little flex and much less breakage.
One final point. There are micro bits offered with a common sized 1/4" shank. Don't buy them. They are intended for use in high precision drill presses. If you try to use them by hand they will break almost immediately.
Regards,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
OMG a article on drill bits, Runs for the hills screaming and pulling out hair!!!!!
Modeling on the cheap
fourtOMG a article on drill bits, Runs for the hills screaming and pulling out hair!!!!!
As I recall, weren't you one of the guys who broke a lot of drill bits? I could be wrong.
Yes i break a lot, drill bits are the bane of my life. The only thing i hate worse is gravity, but that is a storey for annother day. I maganged to drill some holes the other day in a thin peice of plastic using the biggest bit in the package as i had broke all the rest. $30 some odd buck down the drain.
I use A-lines brass steps for most of my cars when i have to replace any. Have tryed some of the plastic ones but the break to much also.
Gee, I'm almost too embarrased to mention this, since the other suggestions look much better. Anyway... my solution is to cut a three-rung section of brass ladder stock, bend it at 90 degrees in the middle and glue (I use Goo) one end to the underside of the car. This makes a near-indestructible stirrup step.
And a nice one too... assuming your standards are sufficiently loose.
(Originally posted in 2009)
Jim
hon30critter Hey Shock Control, A couple of suggestions regarding buying and using drill bits... Regards, Dave
A couple of suggestions regarding buying and using drill bits...
Thanks for the info! Based on what I'm reading here, it sounds like I should try 77, 78, and 79 for stirrups.
hardcoalcase Gee, I'm almost too embarrased to mention this, since the other suggestions look much better. Anyway... my solution is to cut a three-rung section of brass ladder stock, bend it at 90 degrees in the middle and glue (I use Goo) one end to the underside of the car. This makes a near-indestructible stirrup step. And a nice one too... assuming your standards are sufficiently loose. (Originally posted in 2009) Jim
And I am old enough to know exactly what you mean by "brass ladder stock." But last I looked nobody was selling the stuff anymore.
Thanks dave for the suggestions about effectively using drill bits. Who hasn't broken them?! Having too much poking out reminds me of the many times I broke pencil lead points with graphite pencils.
The idea of buying bits in bulk is spot on. There's nothing worse than trying to make a screw work into a poorly sized hole. Pls don't ask how I know
Shock Control:
Shock Control it sounds like I should try 77, 78, and 79 for stirrups.
Personally, I would just buy the #77s and the #79s. You are really splitting hairs with the size differences between the #78 and the other two sizes. CA will fill the gap.
Just a suggestion, but while you are ordering the smaller drill bits you might want to include a few larger sizes in the order too, just to save on future shipping costs. I'm assuming that you are ordering on line. If you have the luxury of a LHS that stocks the bits then you can buy them as you need them of course. As I said, you don't need every single size, and you don't need to buy as many of the larger sizes because they are much less prone to breaking.
Your post has reminded me that I have quite a few stirrups to replace. In fact, I should do what doctorwayne does and replace them all given that I am a clutz when handling freight cars and I break plastic stirrups all the time. Thanks for kicking my butt, seriously!
Precision Scale are producing brass ladder stock, I bought some to repair a couple of cabeese only last week.
Matthew
A reference chart for drill sizes that may help.
http://www.smithbearing.com/images/pdf/ENG-FractionalChart.pdf
Cheers, the Bear.
There are ways to minimize braking drill bits. What I do is chuck the bit in my Pin Vise so more than half the bit is up in the vise - that way much less of the bit is exposed to flexing and breaking. It doesn't eliminate breaking bits, but it makes it easier to avoid breaking them.
Thanks all for the advice!
It's funny, when I started getting back into trains, I spent time online and at train shows finding pristine versions of all the cars I had as a kid. But I still feel compelled to repair the broken ones from my childhood.
Thanks again!
dknelson hardcoalcase Gee, I'm almost too embarrased to mention this, since the other suggestions look much better. Anyway... my solution is to cut a three-rung section of brass ladder stock, bend it at 90 degrees in the middle and glue (I use Goo) one end to the underside of the car. This makes a near-indestructible stirrup step. And a nice one too... assuming your standards are sufficiently loose. (Originally posted in 2009) Jim And I am old enough to know exactly what you mean by "brass ladder stock." But last I looked nobody was selling the stuff anymore. Dave Nelson
It's still around. If you google "HO scale brass ladder stock" you'll get several pages of suppliers.