Hello Everyone,
In past threads here about malfunctioning locomotives, every now-and-then a faulty smoke unit turns out to be the culprit. I have never shared in the excitement or thrill of having "Realistic huffing-and-puffing" smoke coming out of my steam locomotives (and now diesels, thanks to BLI) so one of my first tasks when un-boxing a new locomotive is to run it until the factory fill of smoke fluid is cooked out, gasp then locating the OFF switch, hopefully to never be bothered with them again.
On New Year's Day I had a few friends over for an operating session and during the evening one of them called out to me and asked about the smoke unit on my PRR Q2. I said I never use it and it is switched off. Well, says he, explain all that smoke coming out of the engine!
I wasn't even running it.
Sure enough, smoke was coming from somewhere in there! I couldn't quite pinpoint the source. I called up the address and the engine ran for a few feet then stopped, THEN shorted the section of track it was on.
The next day I opened the tender expecting to find a toasted decoder board. Not so, the board looked fine, certainly nothing burned on there that would produce the amount of smoke we saw or the nasty smell pervading the interior.
I then began to open the boiler to see if the motor had fried. When I put test leads on the motor it ran smooth as silk! Continuing disassembly, and still sniffing around for the source of the burnt varnish smell I popped off the smokebox door and fished out the elaborate smoke unit.
There it was!
The switch was still in the off position! I'm glad nothing else got damaged. These Broadway Q2s are scarce and sometimes get pretty costly to replace.
So, the above scenario got me to thinking about these smoke units and what the opinion of them are amongst fellow modelers. Personally, as by now you may have guessed, I can certainly do without them.
I thought I'd take a little survey here and see if there is truly a market for "smoking" engines or are the manufacturers just trying to pack these "value-added" features to add sizzle to the sales pitch?
As it turns out, this was a good opportunity to scrap the Paragon decoder and install a WOWsound steam decoder and yank out the offending smoke unit and add a little more weight.
Two of those plugs go into another "amplifier" board, not shown here. That sure is a lot of stuff to pack into a locomotive.
Anyone care to share their feelings, pro or con, on this seemingly here-to-stay "feature"?
regards, Ed
Are my only choices "gimmick" or "must have?" I think most smoke units in steam locomotives look pretty inadequate, except perhaps when a locomotive is at rest. But oddly enough I think they look more plausible in diesels (when installed) and in industrial smoke stacks in structures.
At least thus far, nobody seems to have created a smoke unit of any kind that makes me think "ah ... the aroma of coal burning."
Dave Nelson
Having been out of the hobby for years, I was surprised when i went to the Timonium show and the smoking engines smelled exactly like my American Flyer did in 1958. I wasn't crazy about the smell then nor now.
Making it smell like coal would remind me of my grandparents house that was heated by coal in a pot bellied stove. A quaint memory but not something I would want either.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
The smoke does not look remotely realistic to me. In fact, it intrudes into my imagined reality. It is also wholly unnecessary indoor air pollution.
After Ed's experience, I now know to gut any smoke equipped unit I might happen to acquire -- before it sees any power whatsoever.
CG
Personally I think manufacturers are doing a lot of dumb things. Smoke is just one of them. IF...........IF..........the smoke were realistic maybe I could go for it. Until then it's just another gimmick I could pass on.......IF I HAD THE OPTION.
It's right there with the "radio chatter" in the steamers. What? Or right there with the operating water tank with sounds. Seriously? What's next? Squeeking boxcar doors opening & closing? Flat wheels? Hobos singing in the freight cars?
I love sound and think it adds a lot to running my choochoo's but I have a friend who has serious hearing issues and it physically hurts him to hear the sound systems. OK.........yes..... they can be turned off but why should buyers have to pay for some of this crap when it isn't needed or wanted? Couldn't they be like buying a car with or without options? He's not alone about sound as many folks do not use sound as they find it annoying.
Just my 2¢,
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
Every once in a while, I'm at a train show where the venue has actually allowed smoke units and someone is running one. I find the smell overpowering and I spend my time elsewhere. Some years ago, vendors at the Springfield/Amherst show who found themselves near the MTH booth expressed dismay at being so close to so many smoke units running all day.
Sorry, but it's a very chemical odor I can do without.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I'm not a big fan of smoke but I do like sound. I also have allot of just DC engines,
As far as paying for something you don't want just buy engines that are dcc ready Or straight DC engines.
The one problem in Ho is the prices that are charged for these electronic wonders. This why I buy only dcc ready or plain DC from the 90's like Rivarossi, IHC, and AHM.
Dave
It's like sound or weathering or dcc. Enough people like it that it's included on some locomotives, cars, or structures.
Personally, I just turn off the smoke. Sound I like sometimes and sometimes I turn it off. I don't buy anything that comes weathered. Lately, I prefer dcc or dcc ready with a socket.
Sure you pay extra for the those things you don't want, but the manufacturers probably can't afford to have multiple versions covering all the permutations of smoke/no smoke, sound/no sound, dcc/ no dcc, weathered/ not weathered, etc. So they make a marketing decision on how many versions to have and what to include on them.
Paul
I didn't read ever word of the above comments. I think a quick skim revealed a lack of enthusiasm for smoke. And I'll add another vote.
Only one exception.
I had (and still have) a Lionel 2-8-4. And it does look real sweet puffing smoke. But let's face it kids, it's a toy. Same as those really cool rotating swich lights on the 022 switches.
The only smoke on my HO railroad will be from electrical failure.
Ed
Gimmick.
- residue gums up the rails
- smell irritates everyone in the house but me
- maintenance PITA, as Ed capably demonstrated
If manufacturers are gonna stick some additional goodie in a $400 loco, i'd rather it be some form of keep-alive. Waaaaaay more useful.
Stu
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
oldline1What's next? Squeeking boxcar doors opening & closing? Flat wheels?
Flat wheels?
Tsunami Sound Car is your cure!
Now your train is no longer limited to locomotive sounds! The 16-bit, universal-style Tsunami SoundCar Digital Sound Decoder is the only DCC decoder to replicate railcar sounds, such as the clickety-clack, flange squeal, flat spots, generator, brake cylinders, and glad hand release.
Actually I have a few Sound Car units in mechanical refrigerator cars and one in the cab-car of a C&NW Bi-level push-pull train. So it does serve a purpose for certain situations...
MisterBeasleySorry, but it's a very chemical odor I can do without.
I have had the same experience here. LGB/Garden railway stuff running in an endless loop at several of the train shows. The oily film was collecting on the vinyl protective covering on the gymnasium floor and people were slipping. It was posing a real hazard but the vendor seemed nonplussed when a few people mentioned it. If the aural bombardment didn't drive you away the olfactory repulse did!
Thanks for all the replies and discussion, fellows.
Regards, Ed
Sigh. I tried smoking engines in an attempt to keep the boys interested...didn't work so well. The MTH and BLI engines' smoke did not leave a film in the room or on the track for me. Actually the dirty film on the track contained a high percentage of shiny metal chips. This is because BLI's wheel plating in particular wears off to brass quickly! Even the high priced hybrids like the GN 4-8-4 have excessive wheel plating wear that is unlike anything I am experiencing with other brass steamers.
I have since learned to appreciate other steamers that do not smoke or make noise, and might even be unpainted brass. I do not appreciate the unsightly, hard to keep connected properly wire harness so typical of today's plastic and hybrid steam that has all the features I do not any longer need. Instead I prefer the good old solid drawbar with maybe a single wire plug for tender light...
It's a gimmick. Smoke is just another in a long line of gimcrackery from the manufacturers that use it.
Smoke units are banned at my club. It leaves an oily residue on everything, especially track. We have enough problems with dirty track; we don't need to make it worse.
It can leak all over the place, especially when you flip it over to change the couplers or replace a driver.
It stinks. The smell can be overwhelming.
It is an irritant. The fumes make my eyes burn and sticks in the back of my throat.
It negatively affects loco performance by removing weight.
It uses more amps, which means we would need more circuit breakers to handle a bunch of them (sound is bad enough for power).
It is completely unrealistic. Smoke is usually gray or black. You normally only see white from a steam engine on a cold day. And white smoke from a diesel? Only when something is wrong. An whatever the color, it should not look like burning cigarette in an ash tray.
The first thing I do is turn off the smoke when I get one of these, but even then I've noticed that certain locos get hot where the smoke unit is even tho' it's not smoking. Heck, we had an engine come in last month that would not stop smoking. We turned off the mechanical switch and even tried F7, and yet the engine continued to smoke. It's a big pain in the butt, and I wish it would go away from our hobby.
On the BLI Q2, how do you open the smokebox without scratching the paint?
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
dknelsonAt least thus far, nobody seems to have created a smoke unit of any kind that makes me think "ah ... the aroma of coal burning."
IIRC, Seuthe of Germany offered something they labeled "engine scent" way back when I was a kid in the early 1960´s.
Although the smoke units are much more advanced than those "cigarette puffers" of the early days, the smoke still does not look right, as the clouds dissolve too quickly. I disagree that the smoke should be black - engineers were obliged to keep "a clean stack" and had to pay fines if they didn´t.
Doesn´t look too bad, does it? Still a gimmick ...
It´s 1 gauge (1/32 on 45mm track), though.
steemtrayn On the BLI Q2, how do you open the smokebox without scratching the paint?
Fortunately, mine was not pressed in all the way and there was a slight gap where I gould get my finger nail worked around it until it popped off.
If yours is pressed in tightly maybe you could use a plastic, disposable knife or similar tool to work into the groove?
Coal smoke "scent" I can tolerate—in fact, enjoy. My wife bought me 250 lbs. of nice, soft bituminous a few years ago to burn in my caboose stove Yes, brings back many fond memories
A freind of mine who is into O gauge three rail has nothing but smoking engines. The smoke fluid he uses is by mega steam and they have dozens of scents including coal, diesel fuel and many others. To say the least I can't stay too long before I start sneezing, time to leave.
It also seems I'm going backwards in my layout. I now run most of the time with out sound or smoke. The natural sounds of the wheels on the tracks does it for me and it is very relaxing. It may be 2017 but for me it is the late forties and the hey day of the gg1's and the super steam era.
Sir Maddog,
If our HO engines smoked like that and had steam/smoke from the cylinder cocks maybe some people would opt more for smoking engines. That's pretty impressive! Very nice engines and layout too. Thanks for sending that along to us.
My pleasure, Roger.
Roco has released a German DB class 10 Pacific in HO scale, showing cylinder exhaust and a puff of smoke when you sound the whistle, but it is not as impressive as shown in the video.
I saw the KM1 dynamic smoke feature in person a few years ago and I really was awed by its realism, but - and that´s a big but (single "t", please) - you should turn on the smoke only in a well ventilated area. After a few moments, my eyes were irritated and I started to have breathing problems. Mind you, those locos drink smoke fluid like some folks beer at a summer BBQ!
Smoking is not allowed in my house period. That applies to both human and non humans as well including locomotives.
Joe Staten Island West
Like Joe above, I (and my wife) enforce Rule F.
IMHO, model smoke gets three strikes before it even reaches the on-deck circle:
As for the smoke units, none of my locos came with them. If they had, they would have joined the one installed decoder I found in kitbash fodder - removed to make room for additional weight.
I let my imagination provide that rolling cloud of combustion products. That way I don't have to breathe them.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - silent and smokeless)
Nothing screams "TOY" louder that whispy smoke trailing up from a model train.
Worthless gimmick. I've asthma, and even though it doesn't bother my lungs, it is still an irritant I can do without. As others have said, it doesn't even look real.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
Hey there Ed!
Very sorry to hear about your "smoke-box" woes. In answer to your queries you can count me among the nay-sayers concerning smoke units. I was never really fond of them in my younger years. IMHO, i always thought they were for the "kid" factor. The "christmas effect" some might also say.
And that has carried over unto todays locomotives with nothing seemingly improved on except they puff to the beat of the chuff. Im not putting the idea down or anything, I just never thought smoke units should be in the mainstream. To intend an pun... smoke units are just a smoke screen.
However, just like everything else to do with model railroading.... you never know when something is gonna pop up and change your mind. So, I am including a youtube link that has me thinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhH9HJiBRX4
Here is the link that apparently shows the smoke mechanism-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3_WdSFei2M
Cant wait to try this. Alas, I have no DCC locomotives! And I doubt I would get one just to pull this project off. Besides, Im HO not G. Though Im sure one of us crafty rapscallions could make it work. (hint hint)
Unless the commercial smoke unit can somehow equal whats seen in the video, I think the smoke unit will remain just a wow factor. Judging from some of the responses above, I dont think it will happen commercially.
Imagine a model steam era engine facility.... "Ed? whered you go?" - "Im right here next to you, i aint moved an inch." - "Ya mind dumping the fire on your Q2, I cant see my handheld."
Douglas
In the dozen or so forums I belong to, smoke always brings out lively opinions.
My first train set was around 1950 with a Lionel 0-27 steamer which did puff quite nicely. A white aspirin type pill would be put in the stack.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richg1998 In the dozen or so forums I belong to, smoke always brings out lively opinions. My first train set was around 1950 with a Lionel 0-27 steamer which did puff quite nicely. A white aspirin type pill would be put in the stack. Rich
Yeah, that's the same smoke pills I had. I wonder what horrible carcinogenic stuff it was, since I believe it's no longer available.
I doubt it left the oily residue everyone is complaining about. I imagine it left dust, if anything. I remember there was a wooden tool you used to crush the pill.
No smoke for me, it stinks and irritates my eyes nose and throat. It has caused me to have to leave train shows because the toy train folks all want to use it by the gallons.
Ulrichs video however is the best representation of smoke I have see, it's to bad they can't figure a way to make something that wasn't so bad for the people and the layout.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
In 3-Rail O its not too bad, the volume is quite adequate for steam and/or diesel. I use JT-Mega steam smoke fluid in my Lionel and MTH locomotives. I use "Coal Fired Steamer and Diesel Power". Diesel does not smell so good (but who really enjoys the smell of diesel exhaust, its nausiating on its own). Coal fired smells pretty close to riding behind a steam locomotives, not quite but close.
HO scale there is typicaly not enough internal space to put a smoke unit that give adequate volume.
My club is currently having the smoke/no smoke debate, among other things. Personally I suspect the track dirt problem is a combination of things, not just the smoke. We also have people who still use plastic wheels and have never cleaned them, we have had people lubricate their plain bearing journal boxes with actual grease, over lubricate other rolling stock components, over lubricate locomotives, locomotives that have traction tires (leaves a black residue on the tracks when exposed to track coated with the above lubricants and contaminants). To say that the smoke is solely responisble for issues with track is far from accurate. It likely contributes though. As far as banning it on our club layout, its not likely to happen because we are right next to the MTH booth at Amherst, and we also now have a 3rail O layout that the HO people will have no say in if smoke is used or not.
The G and German 1/32 scale videos DO look impressive. But read the comments; the G-scale guy with custom units is using diesel oil (!) as a smoke fluid. Indoors.
No thanks.
My childhood Lionel Pennsy engine had the steam generator unit. Used it about twice. It smelled really bad to me. If I bought a unit with "smoke" generator, it would never be used.
Watch several actual live steam models at NMRA convention this summer and the live steamers have virtual clear stack gas. Real steam with very black smoke is most likely due to soot blower operations or very poor firebox operations. Soot blowers generate very dense, black smoke.