To be honest it a hobby and I don't think the store owner was trying to make you feel bad for what you are spending.. Hack my LHS seem to not care how much i spend i think one of the employee even ask what will it be this week... as i have a bad habbit of spending in this hobbie, pick up a Y6A, Challenger, and 2-10-0 one week then went back to grab a baldwin 2-8-0 and a few heavy weight cars the next. I feel that you spend what you can afford for me i can afford to do that.
Hello all,
Be glad you still have a LHS!
Mine just closed!
...nothing to add.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
I've been in great hobby shops, decent (so-so) hobby shops, and poor hobby shops.
Great ones treat you well, and make you want to purchase from them.
So-so shops you don't mind spending at, but aren't the same as the great ones. You don't mind spending there, but they don't do anything special to make your visit spectacular.
Poor hobby shops are the ones where you really only spent what you had too, or left without buying anything, simply because the owner, or employees, were rude or condescending in their behavior.
A great hobby shop, though no longer exsisting near me, at one time, received as much business as I could give him. Even after my first small purchase, a simple rail car, he would greet me by name when I walked in. About three months went by before I went back, after the first two visits, and he greeted me by name still. He took the time to answer all the questions I had on DCC, let me test a throttle, and took the time to find out what I was interested in, and would need. When he found out where I was from, about 35 minutes away, he discounted the order by 10% when I placed an order for my DCC system. When I returned to pick up the order, he still greeted me by name when I walked in. I picked up the system, and purchased enough decoders for my roster at that time. When I returned about a month and a half later, looking for a part while I was in the area, he again greeted me by name, and took time from stocking his latest delivery to find out how the DCC system was working, and if I was enjoying it. He then, before I left, showed me a item he had just gotten in, and asked if I would like it, simply because he remembered I had mentioned that roadname before as one I liked. (Yes, I purchased it.) I would then on, go out of my way to purchase needed items through him. The shop started having to go more towards RC cars, less trains, but he would still go above and beyond eveytime I was there. When his landlord raised the rent, for the fourth time in a year, he was forced to close shop. While most of my purchases were small, any special orders, he got. I was sad to seen in close, and hated that it was simply because of the fact he could no longer afford the rent when the landlord could get more from someone else, as the building was quickly filled by another business, and I am sure at the new, higher rent, as the shop owner had informed me, on my last visit, that the rent had been raised by the landlord, to an outrageous amount. Surely the new tenants were made to pay the same outrageous amount.
So-so shops get my business when I'm in the area, but no special trips just to go there. Some of them are still in business, some are no longer there.
Poorly run shops, I have simply walked out of without purchasing anything, even if I needed it, as my money is my choice to spend in this hobby, and my choice is to not spend it when they are jerks. If I spent anything, it was extremely small, and I simply never went back to the store. Again, some are still around, some are gone.
Some shops are well run, or are very well run, but far enough away that I will only visit when I am nearby for other reasons, or traveling through the area. These shops, receive my support on an infrequent basis, simply because of their location from me. Nothing against them, other than their distance. If they were closer, they would get more of my business. Some have gone out, for whatever reason, and some are still around.
In my area, we are down to a train store, a RC car store, and a HobbyLobby. Nearby areas have a couple hobby shops here and there, but are not in my immediate area.
Now, as to the OP - If the owner was initiating the conversation, that was just plain wrong. Period. If it casually came up, simply as a discussion of how business was, I am less offended. If it was just a "business is good, someone just ordered a brass steamer", no problem. If it was "business would be better if you would order a brass steamer", than that would fit into a poorly run shop. (Now, there is also the "said as a {very} poorly made joke" to consider there, but, even then, it would not be a great shop.)
These are simply my opinions and experiences, no offense meant or taken in this discussion.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
rrebellAlso most shops don't do displays well or gear up for impulse buys except for the magazines.
Rich
Alton Junction
PRR8259 Also, being only 70 miles from MBK, they realize there are going to be some folks that order the bigger ticket items from MBK, and the local train store doesn't get mad at me when I admit that I did get such and such from MBK. Instead, they focus on what they can offer and the value they can provide the customer.
Also, being only 70 miles from MBK, they realize there are going to be some folks that order the bigger ticket items from MBK, and the local train store doesn't get mad at me when I admit that I did get such and such from MBK. Instead, they focus on what they can offer and the value they can provide the customer.
As is how it should be. Would it be that more places could be that way.
I've started to notice that some Ebay dealers are indeed skimping on shipping: improperly packaging the occasional single BMLA freight car, for example. I'm starting to see minor damage that could have been avoided by proper packaging.
Started? I've ordered quite a lot of items over the years and sometimes I get things packed with very little padding and inspite of it, nothing that I have noticed has been damaged. Shops do that too, where they put the items in right on the bottom of the box and throw in padding above; thats bad since a sharp blow do the bottom of the box could damage the contents. Items should ALWAYS be padded on all 6 sides in the box. I make sure I do that whenever I ship items I sell to buyers. I've just shipped 3 or 4 parcels from items I recently sold on HOSwap for example.
It is almost cheaper and far more interesting to attend Timonium and skip the shipping charges of ordering online, when possible. At Timonium I have found stuff that was "sold out" elsewhere, been able to see, test, and taste it, etc.
So far MBK has worked out well for me mail ordering, but my more recent visits to their B&M store on Cockysville Road has ended up with me waiting quite long sometimes for items to be gotten out of the back for me. It seems they have fewer staff in the past year to service show goers who drop in. My wife has gotten to the point she hates going in there with me anymore although she enjoys the Timonium Show.
I'm a 90 minute drive from Timonium where I live so but it's worth it to go there a few times a year to hunt for items and I enjoy watching the layouts run too.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
My local train store is only about 70 miles from MBK, and although I've placed over a hundred orders from MBK through the years, I've never been in the store. Also, being only 70 miles from MBK, they realize there are going to be some folks that order the bigger ticket items from MBK, and the local train store doesn't get mad at me when I admit that I did get such and such from MBK. Instead, they focus on what they can offer and the value they can provide the customer.
I've started to notice that some Ebay dealers are indeed skimping on shipping: improperly packaging the occasional single BMLA freight car, for example. I'm starting to see minor damage that could have been avoided by proper packaging. Also, even with MBK orders, I have had issues with the Baltimore Post Office, and MBK will admit they, too, have had some issues (I complained about the shipping delays). Some packages seem to get "lost" in the Baltimore Post Office for several days even up to a week. I think my record is 8 or so business days from the day the package was actually picked up at MBK. This is not MBK's fault at all.
However, the terrible US Post Office service from Baltimore at this point is causing me to tend to shop elsewhere unless I have to order from MBK.
Also, by not ever complaining, whining or moaning about things, the local train store has inspired considerable customer loyalty from myself and others.
(I've also never been to Tommy Gilbert's though only 50 miles away. I've never needed to go there when the local store has been doing pretty well by me.)
John
Rastafarr It's funny how quickly the grumps at my LHS start smiling when the money comes out. They're a three hour drive away and thus I only visit sporadically and with cash to drop. They're too far out of my way to visit them for trifles. Stu
It's funny how quickly the grumps at my LHS start smiling when the money comes out. They're a three hour drive away and thus I only visit sporadically and with cash to drop. They're too far out of my way to visit them for trifles.
Stu
rio,
I should have prefaced the 30% and > off MSRP as pertaining to older items - i.e. those which are at least 6-months to a year post-release. My best snag to date was purchasing two Trix 2-8-2 Mikes for ~60% off MSRP when they were dumping them a number of years back. Beautiful locomotives and well worth above what I paid for them.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Unfortunately it seems the discount has been significantly reduced on even Athearn engines on MBK site - with the new MAP pricing, when I calculated Athearns discount it came out to be more like 14%. It really stinks. Where are you getting 30% off of MSRP these days? Other than that MBK has for many years been my go-to vendor. They were mentioned by name by my old LHS owner who shamed me be cause I was buying from them instead of him, and handed me back my latest back of consignment items and told me it wasn't worth his time. Yeah, righteo!
I agree, Rio. I generally purchase locomotives online because I can usually find them for at least 30% or more off MSRP. Only recently did I actually pay full MSRP for one.
MB Klein is usually my go-to place for locomotives if prices on eBay aren't particularly favorable. I've been very happy with their prices, shipping, and service.
tstage John, That's the very thing that I like to support my LHSes with - especially rolling stock. I like to be able to open a kit or look at an RTR and view the BLT date to see if it fits my era or not because that's important to me.
John,
That's the very thing that I like to support my LHSes with - especially rolling stock. I like to be able to open a kit or look at an RTR and view the BLT date to see if it fits my era or not because that's important to me.
It's nice if you have an LHS like that nearby. Since I don't, I make trips to the Timonium train show around 3 times a year which affords me the opportunity to check out rolling stock appropriate for my era and local.
And most times any savings found online for those items will get eatin up when you add postage so it makes more sense to purchase them locally, if that's possible. Hard to find items are another story. Generally, I try and find the best deal I can online, knowing that postage will be a factor in my purchasing decision. Tom
For sure. I don't really have a decent LHS near where I live so I always try to factor in shipping costs so that they are minimized as much as possible. When I buy on Ebay, it's usually because I'm looking for something specific that I haven't managed to find at shows or is out of production for while. For engines, MB Kleins shipping was always fairly reasonable to where I lived so it helped me stretch my limited hobby dollars vs. the LHS where engines were always so much more expensive, the shipping still made it much lower and affordable even when factored in.
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
PRR8259Anyhow, my truly local train store, a good one...understands that some of their people have to buy online, or have to buy certain items online that they would never stock (like the occasional brass steamer for instance) but they are truly thankful for all the "small" sales they make on paint, couplers, buildings, scenery items, track, freight cars, and the occasional dvd. It is their belief that all the "small" sales add up, and have kept them in business for many years. They stock engines, too, but they also know they will sell fewer engines than all the "little" stuff, and they remain well stocked with all the stuff for those who like to build, too.
It is their belief that all the "small" sales add up, and have kept them in business for many years. They stock engines, too, but they also know they will sell fewer engines than all the "little" stuff, and they remain well stocked with all the stuff for those who like to build, too.
And most times any savings found online for those items will get eatin up when you add postage so it makes more sense to purchase them locally, if that's possible. Hard to find items are another story. Generally, I try and find the best deal I can online, knowing that postage will be a factor in my purchasing decision.
I didn't read all the replies...guess somewhere it drifted?
Anyhow, my truly local train store, a good one (The Station, in New Cumberland, PA) understands that some of their people have to buy online, or have to buy certain items online that they would never stock (like the occasional brass steamer for instance) but they are truly thankful for all the "small" sales they make on paint, couplers, buildings, scenery items, track, freight cars, and the occasional dvd.
Also, rather than deal with Ebay, I just trade-in stuff to them at a price point that allows them to make an honest few bucks. It has proven to be a lot less hassle for me than dealing with some of the ungrateful types I have recently dealt with on Ebay. If they price it right, just about anything will sell.
Any kind of used freight cars, even premium highly detailed freight cars like Kadee, Intermountain, BLMA, Genesis, etc. have become a difficult sell on Ebay in recent years, at least for me. Apparently folks are unwilling to pay the now higher shipping costs, and/or are unwilling to package multiple items together anymore, to save on shipping.
I obviously receive less money on my trade-ins, but the payoff is immediate and totally hassle free, and anything I can do on "small" stuff to help the local store stay in business, I'm going to do, because it is nice to still have a local store to go to and this is the last one of more than 8 that were here just a few years ago.
I like to think that I've seen the good, bad, and ugly of online train transactions, and wherever possible, I'm going to support the local store(s) that remain, even if that means occasionally paying a little more for items I pre-order (which is offset by the ability to put it on layaway).
DoughlessI mentioned before the time where a patron was telling me why Pennsy is better than the NYC just because I happen to pick up an NYC loco. The person seemed like a regular at the LHS.
Yea, I can see how that would become annoying - even if I weren't a NYC fan.
I generally kid with other PRR fans I don't know. I give a wry smile and say something like "I'll pretend I didn't see that [hat/t-shirt/pin]", if they're wearing something PRR and I'm wearing my NYC hat. It generally makes for good conversation.
And, even if I do run across a know-it-all, there is usually something or some tidbit that I can glean from my time with them. If the conversation gets too long then I just kindly bow out and go my merry way.
I wish I had a local hobby shop....
tstage Doughless Speaking of which, I don't understand why owners put up with the customers who hang around the LHS like its a coffee shop. Maybe they spend a lot, and that's the reason. But I think it could get intimidating for a customer to walk into a LHS to find a group of guys yukking it up, one-upping each other about how much they know and how much they spend. Owners have a vested interest in sharing their knowledge in a helpful manner. Customers don't have that incentive, and often do it just to let everybody think they are the smartest in the room. Personally, I could care less how much someone spends. Like you said, it's their business. That said, I've rarely if ever run across anyone like that in an LHS. At times I have shared my own experiences about product and DCC with other patrons while visiting my LHS; not to show off any prowess but to merely be helpful, or to add to the conversation. And I only do it when the moment seems appropriate and try to keep it short. Most folks (including the owner) seem to appreciate the input. It's to my advantage that it leads to a possible sale for the owner so that he stays in business longer. At least that's how I look at it. Tom
Doughless Speaking of which, I don't understand why owners put up with the customers who hang around the LHS like its a coffee shop. Maybe they spend a lot, and that's the reason. But I think it could get intimidating for a customer to walk into a LHS to find a group of guys yukking it up, one-upping each other about how much they know and how much they spend. Owners have a vested interest in sharing their knowledge in a helpful manner. Customers don't have that incentive, and often do it just to let everybody think they are the smartest in the room.
Personally, I could care less how much someone spends. Like you said, it's their business. That said, I've rarely if ever run across anyone like that in an LHS.
At times I have shared my own experiences about product and DCC with other patrons while visiting my LHS; not to show off any prowess but to merely be helpful, or to add to the conversation. And I only do it when the moment seems appropriate and try to keep it short.
Most folks (including the owner) seem to appreciate the input. It's to my advantage that it leads to a possible sale for the owner so that he stays in business longer. At least that's how I look at it.
Yes. And there is a tactful way to be helpful. Maybe a patron could start by asking, "I can help with your question if you like"
I mentioned before the time where a patron was telling me why Pennsy is better than the NYC just because I happen to pick up an NYC loco. The person seemed like a regular at the LHS.
I could see where the topic of spending could also invite unwanted competition to what is a essentially a hobby of choices.
- Douglas
DoughlessSpeaking of which, I don't understand why owners put up with the customers who hang around the LHS like its a coffee shop. Maybe they spend a lot, and that's the reason. But I think it could get intimidating for a customer to walk into a LHS to find a group of guys yukking it up, one-upping each other about how much they know and how much they spend. Owners have a vested interest in sharing their knowledge in a helpful manner. Customers don't have that incentive, and often do it just to let everybody think they are the smartest in the room.
Doughless richhotrain As I look back, the LHS didn't stand a chance. So, was it any wonder that some LHS owners were grumpy, or short tempered, or more annoyed than ever at lost sales? Rich Heck, they probably get a bunch of people rummaging through their store just to look and ask questions with no intention of buying.
richhotrain As I look back, the LHS didn't stand a chance. So, was it any wonder that some LHS owners were grumpy, or short tempered, or more annoyed than ever at lost sales? Rich
As I look back, the LHS didn't stand a chance. So, was it any wonder that some LHS owners were grumpy, or short tempered, or more annoyed than ever at lost sales?
Heck, they probably get a bunch of people rummaging through their store just to look and ask questions with no intention of buying.
When shops having items for MRSP or very near MRSP prices, is it any wonder they go in and then have no intention of buying. Lets face it, it's not a cheap hobby, and add on to that if you don't have 500 to spend every other week, but rather a tenth of that, you're going to need to find vendors who offer good discounts to stretch your dollar. Isn't that what most of us on a budget do elsewhere? We shop at Walmart, the dollar stores, look for sales and try to shop smart.
The shop in NY state where I lived for a number of years that shamed me for not spending very much only really cared about the big spenders; I was guilt tripped like the OP was and there were times the proprieter talked about large sums others spend. I suppose it is human nature to kiss up to the big spenders and dismiss the low budget people, but because I was dissed, when I landed a very good paying job, I didn't reward that behavior, rather I took my business elsewhere.
Good old school business is to treat ALL customers as if they are your best ustomers. Why? Because one of those small spenders could turn out to be big spenders later. Or will be good word of mouth advertising or if treated poorly will pass on their experiences to others and drive away business, as has always been the case throughout history.
Sadly, some shop owners attitudes often lose them their much needed business. The owner on that old LHS where I used to live read on a train forums a comment that I had made that I had bought items on MB Klein. I had always had the tactfulness to never mention this in his store, but "dark secret", once known, cause this guy to get angry and lost any business I was giving him. My former wife allowed me only a tiny monthly hobby budget so I was selling some of my unneeded rolling stock at his shop on consignment. IIRC, it usually sold and the guy made his 20% and whatever profits I used to buy stuff from the shop. It seemed good for both of us, that is until he read that I had bought stuff from MB Klein. Then suddenly it wasn't "worth it" for him to put that stuff in his computer and tag it etc. which was obvously a lie, or he wouldn't have done it in the first place. Just one more example of how some LHS proprietors can let emotions and attitudes actually drive customers away. Who needs that kind of treatment? Nobody. So the obvious answer is there are plenty of other vendors who will sell me trains and without the unpleasantness of being treated poorly but a shop.
With the migration to online sales and the like, it relieves us of those uncomfortable encounters with grumpy hobby shops. I've visited many many shops traveling in many states and have encountered my fair share of hobby shops where I didn't linger very long because of the unwelcoming atmosphere.
In my travels, the ones that were this way were that way long before the internet. Heck, they probably get a bunch of people rummaging through their store just to look and ask questions with no intention of buying. Sure, thats part of the LHS business, but I can see where the owner might not be the most jolly fellow if he has to deal with loiterers on a regular basis.
Speaking of which, I don't understand why owners put up with the customers who hang around the LHS like its a coffee shop. Maybe they spend a lot, and that's the reason. But I think it could get intimidating for a customer to walk into a LHS to find a group of guys yukking it up, one-upping each other about how much they know and how much they spend. Owners have a vested interest in sharing their knowledge in a helpful manner. Customers don't have that incentive, and often do it just to let everybody think they are the smartest in the room.
I always thought that LHS owners were a strange breed. At one time, I had three LHS near me. All three of the owners were nice guys, not the crabby old man stereotype of LHS ownership. But it was obvious to me that the owners chose to sell model railroading equipment out of their familiarity and love with model railroading. They needed to eke out a living and chose not to work for someone else. So, what better to choose than something that they were familiar with - - model railroading.
Maybe they weren't the best of small business owners, but was that because they didn't know how to run a small business? Or was it because they picked a business model whose time had already passed?
When I got back into model railroading in 2004, the Internet was up and running and competition to the LHS was already taking place with online sales. As I look back, the LHS didn't stand a chance. So, was it any wonder that some LHS owners were grumpy, or short tempered, or more annoyed than ever at lost sales?
riogrande5761:
I suspect you are right about the shop being on its last legs. They had moved to a smaller store not too long before my incident, and the selection had been trimmed significantly. The only thing they had in any quantity were plastic car models, and they were all over priced.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Dave, sorry to read of your bad experience with that lhs guy. Sounds like the shop was on the ropes and the attitude of the husband owner was probably affected by their near bankrupt condition. Hard to say if that was due to the demeaner of that man or visa versa. I feel sad for the wife member of the team who was really trying while here husband had given up. Hobby shop is a tough business and many do not have the personality suitable or the constitution. It doesnt sound like you could have made the difference however and if others experiences were similar, the shop couldnt survive like that anyway.
Hooty:
Thanks for pointing that out. I did figure it out after submitting my post. Not too quick on the draw today!
I still say you did nothing wrong at all!
Regards,
My original post is reprinted on page 1 in the 5 post down from top
I didn't see your original post, but I gather from those who did that there was nothing wrong with it. You are entitled to share your opinions. That's one of the reasons for the forums in the first place.
On the subject of nasty hobby shop incidents, I had one a few years ago that stopped me from dealing with my LHS permanently.
I had just gotten into the hobby, and I had decided to make my purchases through Aurora Hobbies precisely with the intent of supporting their business. That was despite the fact that they had very little train inventory and most things had to be ordered, and the orders took forever.
The hobby shop was run by a husband and wife team. She was terrific. Him I rarely dealt with. He was rather aloof and never showed any interest in what I was buying. My funds were limited so I was looking for ways to cut costs. I happened to discover grain of rice light bulbs at Radio Shack that were about 1/4 the price of what the hobby shop was asking. On my next visit the hobby shop I started to explain to the owners what I had found with the intention of telling them that now I would have more money to spend in their hobby shop on train specific items. I never got to say the last bit because the male owner interupted me to demand to know what good my buying something somewhere else would do him. He was rather angry. I was very upset.
Bottom line is that I phoned them a few hours later to tell them to cancel the stuff I had on order and that I wouldn't be back. She was in tears but I refused to do further business with them. They folded shortly after. He got what he deserved, and she was a victim of his nasty attitude.
Hooty,
Don't ever back down from someone elses opinion especially on the internet if you feel otheriwse.
Every topic here someone tries to beat it down or turn it into something that is it not. I see people shelling out 200-300$ on an engine and turning around and defending manufacturers of said shoddy product all the time saying "RTR doesn't meant ready to use on a layout!" or "real modelers would fix it". Both statements are assinine at current price points.
You had a conversation with a hobby store owner about who spends what. No one was flinging dirt or being malicious, so don't worry about it. I've talked to my local hobby shop owner about that stuff a lot. I know a few people come in and buy 1-2 or even 3 of everything Overland makes. I have zero reason to doubt him as I don't BS him and he does not BS me. I can't afford that kind of spending, but I never let it bother me.
By the folks here it seems I'm supposed to be mad because someone drives by in a Ferrari. I would be mad if I talked to the guy about his car and he was your typical owner and a snob! If he was cool and willing to talk and show it to me, hats off to the guy and I get to maybe play with a Ferrari.
Rich After reading all the post I now can see it both ways. When I go to a LHS for a purchase I was always in and out as I did not converse with the other costumers because as I said I have been a lonewolf for a long time. I am a NMRA member and belong to the opsig, group.but do not meet with either I read the mags. I have delt with the LHS in question for a very long time the owner is very helpful I think . Like one thread said, I should have said that it would be great to have that disposeable income but I am retried. And even so I would not spend that kind of cash. Like the one post said it leads to court for the married ones. Me I got 43 years in the bank and since we do not have a basement in this house my layout of 12x25 is in the living room dinning combo and we get along just fine You take care Hooty
Absolutely, he has the right as much as anyone to solicit opinions, and then to disagree with them. It is a measure of the good will of others to offer the opinions he solicited, whether or not they were on the same side of the matter that he is. It's how we learn stuff. As long as the tone stays good and that nobody gets personal or insulting, such as using childish names...like happened a few years back when Tom and I were moderating together.