To the forum My original post is 5 posts down
Yes you are right I should not have pulled the post. Yes I did not get the response that i wanted to hear. I seem to be the outsider here and will take my medicine for it. I have been a lonewolf modeler for 50 plus years and now i know why I stayed that way. Of the 1461 readers of my post 44 (at this time) took the time to respond, that talks plenty. I was wrong the LHS owner was wrong. I will retreat back to my train room and enjoy what I have because I really don't need new stuff. anyhow
Assuming bi-weekly means twice a month and not twice a week, that is still 12 grand a year. If I owned the LHS I would want all my customers to spend that much.
It's just as likely the 10 customers, before the two spendthrifts, bought a bottle of paint, or a pack of rail connectors, a bottle of glue or nothing at all.
I'm old school, but back when my dad was in retail mens wear, we never discussed what other customers spent with customers. If the owners intention was to shame you into spending more, I would buy online in the future.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddyIf the owners intention was to shame you into spending more, I would buy online in the future.
My thoughts exactly. A shop owner should never discuss what other customers spend because to me its just unethical to do so..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Tell the LHS owner that most modelers who spend 12k / year on trains will soon be divorced and paying alimony, rent / 2nd mortgage, etc, so likely will have nothing to spend on trains in the near future.
Hooty Today I visited my LHS and the discussion was about what people spend on their hobby. Myself in the last year with building a new layout averaged $150.00 a month which I thought was a very good figure when the shop owner said that two costumers before me, come in on a bi-weekly and drop 4 to 5 hundred on motive power and accessories made me feel like I not supporting him enough. So what you think ten costomers at $100 apiece per month or 2 at $500 bi-weekly ? lets get some opinions.
Today I visited my LHS and the discussion was about what people spend on their hobby. Myself in the last year with building a new layout averaged $150.00 a month which I thought was a very good figure when the shop owner said that two costumers before me, come in on a bi-weekly and drop 4 to 5 hundred on motive power and accessories made me feel like I not supporting him enough. So what you think ten costomers at $100 apiece per month or 2 at $500 bi-weekly ? lets get some opinions.
I always worry about such statements...the one I have made bold in the quote above. Just hear me out...I don't want to start a sideline or a war of words here:
This expression is often heard in instances of spousal abuse, and it always comes from the abuser's mouth. "See what you made me do?" It's the victim's fault, IOW.
Back to this topic: The shop keeper felt that he could engage you in a convsersation, and he shared some information with you. How you felt about it, or how 'it made you feel' is strictly between your own ears. I doubt he had the intention of making you scurry away since you are apparently a regular and provide him with a sizeable chunk of his monthly gas money in the profits he makes from your modest expenditures...as reported by you.
I wasn't there, so I have to go on what you tell us. You tell us you were made to feel bad or cheap, or merely unhelpful. I don't see why you should pin this on him simply because he told you that some other regulars spend more at this establishment than you do. You made the association between your modest means and ability to pay for this discretionary hobby, and what he says the previous two customers pay regularly.
I would have said, "Gosh, I wish I had that kind of discretionary income, but I don't. Maybe in a few years." At which, he would likely have shrugged and said something like, "I'm just happy to have the customers I have, including you." At least, we should hope he would have said something like that.
People should be careful what they ask for...and what kind of conversations they get into. I don't see an issue with the owner being frank about what his customers spend under those circumstances nor should one take offence at him being truthful about that if that's the topic of conversation. I don' necessarily see it as a way to shame anyone, either, probably the opposite. Was he supposed to lie about that in hopes of avoiding hurting someone's feelings with someone who had engaged in the conversation? I'm not sure how to even anticipate that, let alone then carefully dodge around the truth.
I would suggest, as was already mentioned, that he should not identify individual customers in this way to others...unless he planned to do it in front of all involved...which usually would make someone think twice about that if they didn't anticipate all the potential ramifications when thinking just once or not at all about that sort of bad business etiquette.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
My opinion? What the shop owner commented was inappropriate. To what end say this? To guilt trip the guy who has far less disposible funds is bad. That sounds an awful lot like a shop I used to visit 9 or 10 years ago.
I used to go to a shop in NY state where an owner shamed me for spending too little and commented on how much others spent. At that time I didnt have a great deal of dicretionary funds. The shop owner apparently figured he had nothing to lose if I walked. No far thinking old school business sense there obviously. As it happends I got a very good paying job after that and spent thousands on model trains during the following couple years and none of it at this rude guys shop.
I'd be reticent to continue patronizing this clown and let him continue his apparent love affair with his rich customers. Vote with your feet and wallet. In the end, he needs you more than you need him. There are plenty of fish in the sea and other shops who would be glad to have your business.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Sounds like the ops dealer is a moron plain and simple. Never discus what others spend period.
I think weather or not the owner was attempting to guilt you into spending more kind of depends on if the OP started the conversation or not. If the op initiated the discussion on how much he spends asking if that was typical, and the owner answered, the LHS proprietor was simply stating fact.
I regulary ask my favorite LHS owners how business is going. They don't give specific names of people that spend money, but they do tell me about ups and downs (large customer who has a bunch on order lost his job, etc).
It turns out LHS owners are just people, and they like to talk to their customers about stuff, and if your friendly with the proprietor, run down stairs or to the back room to grab something for them for another customer, check inventory, etc, sometimes they cut you a discount, or if they know that they have been holding something for someone else, who now cant pay for it, they'll look you up first.
Allows me the opportunity to swoop in buy something that I may have wanted (something held in reserve in the back room that another customer couldnt pay after 6months etc).
If you feel pressured to buy something, that's on you. I feel no different after such conversation, other than its a reminder to not spend money you haven't earned yet.
The secret(s) to not getting divorced over this hobby are to
1) you marry another model railroader, and she goes train shopping with you
2) You dont spend your part of the mortgage/rent money on trains every month, or if you do spend it (mortgage/rent); you spend it on that brass locomotive she has been eyeing for the past few months...
3) Dont spend her money, only yours.
The OP was there and we were not, and it bothered him enough to start this thread. However there is the Greenspan paradox:
BigDaddy The OP was there and we were not, and it bothered him enough to start this thread. However there is the Greenspan paradox: " I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant”
You are correct, I was not there. However, I was giving my opinion on similar conversations that I have had.
And my opinion is:
If the OP started the converstation, or had started a similar conversation in the past, or was bragging to the owner about how much he spends on the hobby, etc.. then its his fault.
Also I don't particularly care what other people spend on the hobby, its up to them, unless they are my friends, then we play the "who can we get to spend more than me this trip" game (LHS owners love that game). Other than the before mentioned "game" I have never felt pressured to buy anything by any hobby shop I have entered, I come get what I am looking for or order it if it isnt there. The feeling of being pressured is you allowing yourself to feel pressured.
Again these are my opinions, with these and $4.95 you can get a cup of coffee at Dunkin Donuts.
Who cares.............
Nothing in this sounds like a desparaging remark. So who cares.
I've had these conversations with a few shop owners. One told me " I get customers with $5k stacks on the counter before they leave and they don't get a discount either." This was after asking if there is any break if you spend so much You can always try, might not like what you hear back, but you can try.
I watch folks at the comic shop spend $250 a week, a bad week for me might be $40 every now and then.
Same goes for Transformers at conventions and toy shows.
What do you care, if your smart you spend only what you are able to, minus that too good to be true deal or once in a lifetime piece you'll be fine.
BMMECNYC kind of depends on if the OP started the conversation or not. If the op initiated the discussion on how much he spends asking if that was typical, and the owner answered, the LHS proprietor was simply stating fact.
It doesnt matter who started the conversation. Fact or not, this is information the hobby shop owner should NOT be discussing with other customers. Unethical at the very least and poor judgement. Being "just people" is no excuse IMO. Unacceptable and this guy should not be at all surprised if he loses customers, and as my wife would say, his own daft fault!
The secret(s) to not getting divorced over this hobby are to 1) you marry another model railroader, and she goes train shopping with you
Its ok to dream but good luck with that. Women model railroaders are statistical outlyers and extremely rare. What is it they say: its good to have goals but if you did find a wife who was into trains youd be lucky and part of a fairly exclusive and elusive club.
riogrande5761It doesnt matter who started the conversation. Fact or not, this is information the hobby shop owner should NOT be discussing with other customers. Unethical at the very least and poor judgement. Being "just people" is no excuse IMO. Unacceptable and this guy should not be at all surprised if he loses customers, and as my wife would say, his own daft fault!
If he mentioned no names, and the OP initiated the conversation, then there are no ethics involved in my opinion.
riogrande5761Its ok to dream but good luck with that. Women model railroaders are statistical outlyers and extremely rare. What is it they say: its good to have goals but if you did find a wife who was into trains youd be lucky and part of a fairly exclusive and elusive club
Yep I am a member of that club, and she also agrees with me on this, so I'm thrice lucky I guess.
That having been said, I agree with you that if the OP did not initiate the conversation, then yes, it would be improper for the proprietor to bring up other other customers spending, names or not.
BMMECNYC The secret(s) to not getting divorced over this hobby are to 1) you marry another model railroader, and she goes train shopping with you 2) You dont spend your part of the mortgage/rent money on trains every month, or if you do spend it (mortgage/rent); you spend it on that brass locomotive she has been eyeing for the past few months... 3) Dont spend her money, only yours.
riogrande5761 BMMECNYC kind of depends on if the OP started the conversation or not. If the op initiated the discussion on how much he spends asking if that was typical, and the owner answered, the LHS proprietor was simply stating fact. It doesnt matter who started the conversation. Fact or not, this is information the hobby shop owner should NOT be discussing with other customers. Unethical at the very least and poor judgement. Being "just people" is no excuse IMO. Unacceptable and this guy should not be at all surprised if he loses customers, and as my wife would say, his own daft fault! The secret(s) to not getting divorced over this hobby are to 1) you marry another model railroader, and she goes train shopping with you Its ok to dream but good luck with that. Women model railroaders are statistical outlyers and extremely rare. What is it they say: its good to have goals but if you did find a wife who was into trains youd be lucky and part of a fairly exclusive and elusive club.
Sounds like the shop owner was telling you what his very best customers (who may or may not be costumers) spend, not the average. A true average would include the people who come in and buy nothing, so if he had said the average customer spent $2 a month would you feel that relevant? I never felt the need to be an average or above average customer at my LHS. I went often enough and bought things often enough that he appreciated my business and recognized me when came in the door. I felt no need to be an average or even just good customer.
Dave Nelson
rrebell I have always had conversations about buyers with shop owners both hobby and other. They knew I know buisness and they never mentioned names. People like to talk about their work, period. In fact I can't remember ever someone being upset with this. If such a trivial thing bothers you, you must get stressed out a lot.
I have always had conversations about buyers with shop owners both hobby and other. They knew I know buisness and they never mentioned names. People like to talk about their work, period. In fact I can't remember ever someone being upset with this. If such a trivial thing bothers you, you must get stressed out a lot.
This sums it up nicely
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Hooty ...the shop owner said that two costumers before me, come in on a bi-weekly and drop 4 to 5 hundred on motive power and accessories...
...the shop owner said that two costumers before me, come in on a bi-weekly and drop 4 to 5 hundred on motive power and accessories...
I could be wrong but that sounds to me like two customers who don't have a real plan or vision in place for a layout. It's their discretion how and when they want to spend their monies. Picking an era and prototype has really helped me to become a more disciminate shopper and keep me from spending it on things that will most likely stay in their box.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
BMMECNYC If he mentioned no names, and the OP initiated the conversation, then there are no ethics involved in my opinion.
Maybe but I still think it is poor judgement for a shop owner to discuss what other spend at the shop, even when unnamed. It was pretty clear in the original post that it was an uncomfortable thing for the guy who was spending a lot less to be compared to customers who spent far more. One of the unhealthier things in society is people comparing wealth and spending; usually the most uncomfortable for the underdog in the conversation. What was the result of the OP's conversation? He felt guilty. That speaks volumes.
I would be hard pressed to come up with very many guys who are married to lady model railroaders; it's so unusual that it's quite something when you do hear about it, so you are one of the few I can recall, either on forums or reading about it in magazines. My "take away" is that it's very rare. So much so that you really take notice of it when you do run across a female train modeler. So few are they I can think of only a few such as Cynthia Priest and there was a husband wife team who were contributors to Model Railroading Magazine, each having their own monthly column. Sadly she passed away IIRC and the magazine has been out of print now for some years.
Honestly, this is why I try to avoid hobby shops. I go to buy. Others seem to always want to converse.
I end up torn between wanting to be polite and engage them in some manner, and wanting to cut them short so I can just pay for my stuff and leave.
- Douglas
DoughlessHonestly, this is why I try to avoid hobby shops. I go to buy. Others seem to always want to converse.
I've alway enjoyed the talks with my LHS owners since most was modelers and some even gave insight to the business and one even told me while the big spenders are nice but,they're far and few between and its the average spending customers is that keeps my doors open.
I also miss the Saturday morning hobby shop gab fest that was once so common and IMHO far better then a faceless cold screen where monikers are used.. I even had the pleasure of visiting several home layouts over the years including a gorgeous HOn3 logging layout because I was friendly enough to talk to other modelers and few became good friends and one invited me to join the club he was a member-heck I didn't even know there was a club in that city of 26,000 souls..
Doughless Honestly, this is why I try to avoid hobby shops. I go to buy. Others seem to always want to converse. I end up torn between wanting to be polite and engage them in some manner, and wanting to cut them short so I can just pay for my stuff and leave.
Like Larry - I've met more interesting folks at my LHS - owners and patrons alike - just by spending time conversing with them while shopping. When I go to train shows I always enjoy meeting up with local model railroaders I know or have gotten to know. I've even had the privilege of getting together and chatting with a few of the folks who frequent/frequented here on the forum - e.g. Larry (Brakie), Steve (lead pirate), Frank (0-6-0), Ed (gmpullman), and Chip (Spacemouse). That's part of the enjoyment of the hobby for me.
Owners are fine. Its the customers who hang around. I've spent many vists to shops all over the country trying not to talk about things I'm totally uninterested in.
I remember once, I picked up a loco that happenened to be NYC. One of three people hanging around started gabbing about how the Pennsy RR was so much better and couldn't believe I was an NYC fan. I'm not. I just picked up the loco to look at it.
Stuff like that creeps me out.
Nevermind!
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
And the original poster decided to fold their tent after stirring things up...not classy at all...and makes one wonder if this was just some fable trotted out from under a low bridge somewhere? Does make the question about who exactly started this conversation more relevant...
Back in 1979 their was a toy and hobby shop back in my home town every time i came in he will brag to me on how much this local doctor will spend on his trains.
Russell
mlehman And the original poster decided to fold their tent after stirring things up...not classy at all...and makes one wonder if this was just some fable trotted out from under a low bridge somewhere? Does make the question about who exactly started this conversation more relevant...
That seems to be fairly common place around here which is a down side to MR forums - in general there is a high incidence of trolling followed by drama. I'm not sure if the OP was trolling us or not but there is definitely a pattern here.
riogrande5761I'm not sure if the OP was trolling us or not but there is definitely a pattern here.
Or OP didn't get the answer they wanted.
There are topics that automatically opens a can of wiggly worms as we know.
Around a year ago on another forum we had a excellent topic going on switching operation,car card/waybill,switch list etc and various types of industries that could be modeled other then the normal industries seen on most layouts around the third or fourth page comes the trolling "I don't like to switch cars,switching is boring etc" replies that killed one of the best discussions in months.
A pantywaist moderator locked it before "It gets out of hand"..The irony there was no bickering other then a very polite "could we please continue our discussion" by the OP.