My X2f conversion car is an Athearn pickle car. The other end has a Kadee K-5 coupler. THAT's how long it's been since I felt the need to couple to an X2f equipped car.
Ed
I have 5 conversion cars with a x2f on one end and a KD on the other for the times I run my older Rivarossi engines and others. Never got around to adding KD's and at this time they will stay as they are.
Also friends who bring trains over to run have X2F's so the conversion cars come in handy.
maxmanI believe that it is not totally correct to call an X2F an NMRA coupler:
Depends..The NMRA designed it and it was rejected by the membership.
Still the NMRA allowed the manufacturers to use that design and in the early years it was called the NMRA coupler by the manufacturers and that was dropped to X2F couplers.
I just call it by its name the X2F.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
mobilman44In order to continue using a lot of cars, I had a couple of freight cars with KD on one end and NMRA on the other.
I believe that it is not totally correct to call an X2F an NMRA coupler: http://webspace.webring.com/people/ib/budb3/arts/tech/cuphist.html
You could use a conversion car as say a buffer car between a horn hook locomotive and you rolling stock. I have done this because my wife doesn't want me to dispose of a couple of trainset locos and my rolling stock.
Joe Staten Island West
CRIP 4376 Along this line, how many used conversion cars with a X2F on one end and a Kadee on the other? Ken Vandevoort
Along this line, how many used conversion cars with a X2F on one end and a Kadee on the other?
Ken Vandevoort
Raising my hand here. I still have, and use conversion cars when I can get a chance to run my stuff.
For sentimental reasons some cars from childhood I have left 'original'. When i get a chance to run these with my Kadee cars/locos, a conversion car is a must. I use an Athearn BB Hi-Cube boxcar. It doubles as a height checker.
PM Railfan
I sure did! Back in the '70s I had mostly Athearn, MDC, and a few other brands that all came with the NMRA couplers. I finally decided to make the switch to KDs, with $$$ being the big constraint. Therefore I could only buy a pack or two of number 5s every week or two.
In order to continue using a lot of cars, I had a couple of freight cars with KD on one end and NMRA on the other.
My main passenger loco was a Rivorossi Pacific ATSF steamer. I couldn't figure out how to convert the tender coupler to KD, so I left it NMRA and kept an NMRA on one end of the baggage car (so as to connect to the tender). It worked great.
Folks, the NMRAs looked terrible, but they worked and stood the test of time. As someone said, the KDs were what the "adults" were using and for most of us back then the only thing holding us back was the cost.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
BRAKIE Rich,I don't think anybody is advocating returning to the X2F
Thank goodness for that. Every day I listen to the news and I think the world has gone totally crazy. All I need is for the model railroad world to abandon Kadee's whole-sale and return to horn hood couplers - that would be the last straw to drive me over the edge!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
richhotrainLarry, nothing is hard to understand about that. Too bad that you missed my point. Rich
I seen your point..A innocent question about X2F got into a pointless discussion on KD versus the X2F.
Everybody knows the KD is superior and there's no question about that but,that wasn't the question.
BTW..If I was young and seen how well the X2F worked I would ask the same question because of what the "experts" has taught us about how bad the X2F was.
Some of those experts thinks using a magnet to uncouple cars is awful and yet,the beauty of the KD coupler is its hands free uncoupling capabilities.The very thing that made it popular.
BRAKIE richhotrain All of this talk about horn hook couplers and the supposed advantages or positive points about them has me wondering. Is anyone prepared to switch from knuckle couplers to horn hook couplers as a result of the discussion? Of course not. Knuckle couplers are the choice of the overwhelming majority of modelers ...and for good reason. Rich Rich,I don't think anybody is advocating returning to the X2F.. A valid question was asked because David saw how well the X2F works and that goes against all the experts teachings on how bad the X2F was. Nobody said the X2F look like a prototype coupler or could win a beauty contest-in fact the X2F looked like it fell out of the top of a ugly tree and hit every branch on its way down. When properly mounted the X2F worked and filled the need for a standard coupler that replaced the hodge podge of incompatible couplers from various manufacturers.. What's so hard to understand about that?
richhotrain All of this talk about horn hook couplers and the supposed advantages or positive points about them has me wondering. Is anyone prepared to switch from knuckle couplers to horn hook couplers as a result of the discussion? Of course not. Knuckle couplers are the choice of the overwhelming majority of modelers ...and for good reason. Rich
All of this talk about horn hook couplers and the supposed advantages or positive points about them has me wondering. Is anyone prepared to switch from knuckle couplers to horn hook couplers as a result of the discussion? Of course not. Knuckle couplers are the choice of the overwhelming majority of modelers ...and for good reason.
Rich
Rich,I don't think anybody is advocating returning to the X2F..
A valid question was asked because David saw how well the X2F works and that goes against all the experts teachings on how bad the X2F was. Nobody said the X2F look like a prototype coupler or could win a beauty contest-in fact the X2F looked like it fell out of the top of a ugly tree and hit every branch on its way down.
When properly mounted the X2F worked and filled the need for a standard coupler that replaced the hodge podge of incompatible couplers from various manufacturers..
What's so hard to understand about that?
Alton Junction
zstripe A couple of points about the horn hooks though......you never had any unwanted uncoupling and You could also couple in curves....one reason for the long curve at the knuckle. Take Care! Frank
A couple of points about the horn hooks though......you never had any unwanted uncoupling and You could also couple in curves....one reason for the long curve at the knuckle.
Take Care!
Frank
Which is a valid consideration. A modeler might want to sacrifice appearence of the coupler to be able to operate a tight-curved logging, coal, or urban based layout. (or any other layout with not a lot of room for perfectly straight spurs.)
- Douglas
CRIP 4376 I actually got to see two layouts in Texas many decades ago that used Mantua loop couplers - Jack Leming and Cliff Robinson. Mantua loops were one of those things you knew about, but wondered if anyone actually used them. Ken Vandevoort
I actually got to see two layouts in Texas many decades ago that used Mantua loop couplers - Jack Leming and Cliff Robinson. Mantua loops were one of those things you knew about, but wondered if anyone actually used them.
I did...many decades ago! LOL. I said so in My post a couple pages ago. They were unsightly..but they actually worked fairly well.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/302046682918?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
joe323 Since I do everything manually on the SIW I clip the trip hoses on the Kadees and use a sharpie to blacken the spring.
Since I do everything manually on the SIW I clip the trip hoses on the Kadees and use a sharpie to blacken the spring.
Most definitely a sound approach. Its harder to see black details when they are in the shadows.
I stopped using horn hook couplers I think in 1998 when at 15 I decided to do serious model railroading. Kadees were what the adult model railroaders were using so I would too. I transitioned into #58s and their "scale-head" brethren about the time they came out, about 14-15 years ago. Kadee makes a great coupler, easy to use, easy to mount, and forgiving when it comes to many kinds of imperfect trackwork. However, horn-hooks were many people's introduction to model railroading and if they work for them, great.
My preference is now Sergent couplers. I don't mind the assembly and tuning, though the work may not be everyone's idea of fun.
Alvie
richhotrain Agreed. Who wants to assemble couplers? And glue them, no less. Plus all of the carcinogen warnings. Wash your hands after each session to avoid cancer? Oh my! Rich
Agreed. Who wants to assemble couplers? And glue them, no less.
Plus all of the carcinogen warnings. Wash your hands after each session to avoid cancer? Oh my!
doctorwayneI do agree with Andrew's assessment of the Sergent couplers, though, and with a smaller roster of cars and locomotives, would be very tempted to convert. However, that conversion would have to be to Proto87 standards, as those scale couplers would then emphasise our overly wide wheels and the overly wide trucks required to accommodate them. Another one of those "slippery slope" issues, I guess. Wayne
Wayne,If the Sergents came assembled I would be tempted to equipped 60 of my higher detailed cars with those couplers--60 cars is a nice number for my in/out rotation and I would need to buy 10 more to reach that figure.
Not sure if I would go Proto87 just because of the couplers though. The main reason Proto87 wheels isn't that forgiving if the track isn't flawless.
doctorwayne Since the coupler conversation seems to be petering out.... Doughless Yeah, I need the old "horrible" AHM/TYCO truck with the coupler to get the type of grade holding "performance" I'm looking for. Plastic wheels alone won't do it. ...how's this for rolling resistance: Originally an Athearn coach, this car has its original plastic wheels with largish flanges (not RP25, I think) and all-metal trucks. The car is on a 2.5% grade and was pushed (downhill) into this position, where it stopped rolling of its own accord in a distance of only a few inches. If vertically mismatched Kadees, ahead of this car in a passenger train, happen to come uncoupled on a trip up the hill, I won't worry about lawsuits from passengers in other cars due to a wreck caused by the runaway, as it's unlikely to roll too far.
Since the coupler conversation seems to be petering out....
Doughless Yeah, I need the old "horrible" AHM/TYCO truck with the coupler to get the type of grade holding "performance" I'm looking for. Plastic wheels alone won't do it.
...how's this for rolling resistance:
Originally an Athearn coach, this car has its original plastic wheels with largish flanges (not RP25, I think) and all-metal trucks. The car is on a 2.5% grade and was pushed (downhill) into this position, where it stopped rolling of its own accord in a distance of only a few inches. If vertically mismatched Kadees, ahead of this car in a passenger train, happen to come uncoupled on a trip up the hill, I won't worry about lawsuits from passengers in other cars due to a wreck caused by the runaway, as it's unlikely to roll too far.
Thanks for the pic Wayne.
Yeah, I don't need to hold a 2.5% grade. My spur track laying isn't that bad.
But, I'm currently looking for 36 inch plastic wheels to replace the factory metal ones on my Tangent 4750 grain hoppers. While they look nice in the box, the metal wheels just don't allow me to mimmic prototype fidelity when operating the grain spur.
I'm hoping the plastic wheels roll poorly, and also since the black doesn't fall off black plastic over time, those wheels will be a much better product for those hoppers.
Thanks for the contribution.
Compared to Kadee couplers, horn hook couplers make models look very unrealistic and toylike.
DoughlessYeah, I need the old "horrible" AHM/TYCO truck with the coupler to get the type of grade holding "performance" I'm looking for. Plastic wheels alone won't do it.
I do agree with Andrew's assessment of the Sergent couplers, though, and with a smaller roster of cars and locomotives, would be very tempted to convert. However, that conversion would have to be to Proto87 standards, as those scale couplers would then emphasise our overly wide wheels and the overly wide trucks required to accommodate them. Another one of those "slippery slope" issues, I guess.
Wayne
David:
"Are horn hooks all that bad? "
I never thought so. I have always been amazed at their simplistic, yet genius design.
angelob6660 BMMECNYC Cost: Compareable or less than Kadee. But yes you do have to assemble them or pay someone to do so. How do you replace them? It looks difficult.
BMMECNYC Cost: Compareable or less than Kadee. But yes you do have to assemble them or pay someone to do so.
Cost: Compareable or less than Kadee. But yes you do have to assemble them or pay someone to do so.
How do you replace them? It looks difficult.
Not sure what exactly your question is, but its pretty much a one for one swap in most cases (assuming you did not glue your coupler boxes together (have a few of those). Some coupler boxes that are thinner than others require filing get a sergent to fit (also the kadee that was replaced needed to be filed).
Responses to other comments:
Yes I agree, most modelers do not photograph their models.
Sergents, assembled per the instructions, are every bit as reliable as a kadee, in some cases more so. I have yet to have an unintentional uncoupling on our modular layout due to couplers slipping over each other. Have had plenty with Kadee.
Also I can couple on a curve due to no centering spring (yes you can omit the kadee spring or cut the whiskers off).
Double shelf couplers for modern era modelers cannot physically be uncoupled without a magnet, the shelfs are actually interlocking (this could be considered good or bad depending on if you loose your magnet, if only a few cars you can turn them upside down and they will uncouple).
I started out by cutting my trip pins off of my Kadees. Eventually got tired of doing that (different pins on kadee clones are made of harder metals that like to destroy lesser cutters, Rapido HO passenger cars especially).
There is no spring that can fall out of the coupler (optional spring that goes inside the coupler box for added side to side resistance).
But to each his own. I prefer to count this particular rivet on my own trains and on published photographs. To me, even with weathering and trip pin removed, a Kadee #5 just looks wrong. The X2f by and far looks horrible; it served its purpose until something better came along. That was the Kadee. I beleive the Sergent is at least equal to the Kadee in cost and reliability, and is superior in appearance. These are my opinions.
BMMECNYC Take a photo of your front or rear of your model train infront of completed scenery. What is the first thing that stands out?
Take a photo of your front or rear of your model train infront of completed scenery. What is the first thing that stands out?