Sir Madog I don´t think Lionel intends to enter the market of scale models with the Polar Express. My guess it is intended for those who do not have the room to set up an O27 gauge PE or want their kids to see the PE run on their HO scale empire in the basement/garage/attic/spare bedroom.
Lionel has been making scale engines in O scale for some time, perhaps half of what they make now are 1:48 scale models designed for "high railers" - people building well detailed and scenicked O scale layouts, but using 3 rail instead of 2.
Sir Madog wjstix It's perhaps a symptom of how good model rail products have gotten that so many people think of the HO Polar Express 2-8-4 as being crude and toy-like. 30 years ago, HO modellers would have been snapping these up to re-letter them for Pere Marquette and other railroads that had Berkshires...and back then, they wouldn't have come with DCC and sound. Make that 60 years ago and you may be right - 30 years ago, the level of detail was not much less than some of today´s offerings.
wjstix It's perhaps a symptom of how good model rail products have gotten that so many people think of the HO Polar Express 2-8-4 as being crude and toy-like. 30 years ago, HO modellers would have been snapping these up to re-letter them for Pere Marquette and other railroads that had Berkshires...and back then, they wouldn't have come with DCC and sound.
It's perhaps a symptom of how good model rail products have gotten that so many people think of the HO Polar Express 2-8-4 as being crude and toy-like. 30 years ago, HO modellers would have been snapping these up to re-letter them for Pere Marquette and other railroads that had Berkshires...and back then, they wouldn't have come with DCC and sound.
Make that 60 years ago and you may be right - 30 years ago, the level of detail was not much less than some of today´s offerings.
I don't know about that. I started in HO in 1987. At that time, outside of normally unpainted and poorly running brass, about the only options for RTR steam were Mantua, who had some newer designs and some old ones going back to the 1950's, or Life-Like or Bachmann plastic - sometimes decent looking models, but poor motors and pulling power. For kits, you had MDC/Roundhouse or Bowser; not terribly detailed or particularly easy to build and get running well.
You were just starting to get things like Bachmann-Spectrum's GP-30 (which was considered "state of the art" then, but now is part of their cheaper, less detailed line) or the first Proto models from Life-Like. Atlas and Stewart were making good diesels, but they weren't as detailed as they would be - you often had to drill out holes to add handrails or the correct horn and such - if you wanted to "super detail" them. It's really only been relatively recently that you have the range of good running / well detailed engines we have now.
I have a DC only, 4x8 layout that consists mostly of Tyco, Life-Like, and Bachmann equipment that I have accumulated along with the buildings from my original layout dating back to the 1970s.
I had talked for years about creating my own Polar Express, and was seriously picking out cars and an engine to use when I saw the announcement about Lionel releasing the HO scale version. I preordered mine from Trainworld, and recieved it a week or two ago.
I have absolutely no regrets. I could not have made my consist that looks as nice, with the bright LCD lights that Lionel's Polar Express has. I also could not have done at all was come up with the sound effects (including the voices) and the LionChief control.
To those of us who have decided for whatever reasons to stay in the DC/horn-hook world; LionChief brings many of the benefits of DCC without throwing your existing equipment away. You can even run it on the same layout/block as your DC trains, if you don't mind running them fast enough to provide enough voltage for the Polar Express' sound effects to work.
If you realize it is basicly a scale model of the engine in the movie and not PM 1225, the level of detail is very good. As others have said, with the exception of the pilot/cowcatcher, the details in general are very good, especially compared to what I have available.
I was impressed enough that I put together my first youtube video demonstrating how it runs on a DC layout:https://youtu.be/xsvq1_dtYLg
In closing, the kids, grandkids, and myself love it. One of my grandsons came by yesterday to run it again along with my son, and will probably be back again today to run it.
survivingsteam I have a DC only, 4x8 layout that consists mostly of Tyco, Life-Like, and Bachmann equipment that I have accumulated along with the buildings from my original layout dating back to the 1970s. I had talked for years about creating my own Polar Express, and was seriously picking out cars and an engine to use when I saw the announcement about Lionel releasing the HO scale version. I preordered mine from Trainworld, and recieved it a week or two ago. I have absolutely no regrets. I could not have made my consist that looks as nice, with the bright LCD lights that Lionel's Polar Express has. I also could not have done at all was come up with the sound effects (including the voices) and the LionChief control. To those of us who have decided for whatever reasons to stay in the DC/horn-hook world; LionChief brings many of the benefits of DCC without throwing your existing equipment away. You can even run it on the same layout/block as your DC trains, if you don't mind running them fast enough to provide enough voltage for the Polar Express' sound effects to work. If you realize it is basicly a scale model of the engine in the movie and not PM 1225, the level of detail is very good. As others have said, with the exception of the pilot/cowcatcher, the details in general are very good, especially compared to what I have available. I was impressed enough that I put together my first youtube video demonstrating how it runs on a DC layout:https://youtu.be/xsvq1_dtYLg In closing, the kids, grandkids, and myself love it. One of my grandsons came by yesterday to run it again along with my son, and will probably be back again today to run it.
Thanks for the video, the LIONEL HO Polar Express is very much exactly what it should be for the intended market/purpose. It will be interesting to see how big the market is for that sort of thing in HO.
Surely a great Christmas tree train for those who might want to do that in HO - the Christmas tree train at my house is a Bachmann On30 PRR passenger train set, controlled by an Aristo wireless throttle, nearly 20 years now, only PRR loco on the property........On30 scales well with the porcelin Christmas Village houses......building Christmas Gardens, a great and fun hobby, seperate from Model Railroading......
My grandchildren have seen the Polar Express move repeatedly and are not particularly enamored with it, so I guess I'm off the hook.......the 5 year old is already rejecting toys that are too "babyish" for his tastes........he is quickly loosing interest in the Christmas Train at his house - LIONEL O27 Thomas - with sound and wireless throttle.
Sheldon
wjstixI don't know about that. I started in HO in 1987. At that time, outside of normally unpainted and poorly running brass, about the only options for RTR steam were Mantua, who had some newer designs and some old ones going back to the 1950's, or Life-Like or Bachmann plastic - sometimes decent looking models, but poor motors and pulling power. For kits, you had MDC/Roundhouse or Bowser; not terribly detailed or particularly easy to build and get running well. You were just starting to get things like Bachmann-Spectrum's GP-30 (which was considered "state of the art" then, but now is part of their cheaper, less detailed line) or the first Proto models from Life-Like. Atlas and Stewart were making good diesels, but they weren't as detailed as they would be - you often had to drill out holes to add handrails or the correct horn and such - if you wanted to "super detail" them. It's really only been relatively recently that you have the range of good running / well detailed engines we have now.
My mistake, I only looke at was available in the European markets 30 years ago, which was as detailed as you get it today, including well performing drives.
As for the Polar Express, I agree to the statement saying ist´s a model of the movie train - and not a model of the real world!
I know this is an old thread, LOL, but it does come up when searching HO Scale Lionel Polar Express ... and since Christmas is once again around the corner (seeing that it begins before Halloween now LOL) I figured I'd put my 2 cents into the cup.
Yes I am a rivet counter. Yes I am a toy tain lover. Yes, the two coexist on my layout and you'll see old Tyco sided next to Broadway Limited and old Plasticville mingled in with Woodland Scenics.
When I forked out a paycheck (LOL) for the Lionel Polar Express set, I fully intended it to be a scaled down version of the O27 Polar Express set from the movie locomotive and consist. For people wanting a "prototypical" Polar Express, you missed the point ... LOL ... fantasy holiday movie, fantasy version of a locomotive "based on, but not exact to" the Pere Marquette 1225, Berkshire N-1 class 2-8-4 locomotive. In the original book, the locomotive is a generic 4-6-2 anyway ... so we can dispense with "Prototype Polar Express" talk. :^) The movie's not even using the right locomotive.
Well, on to the HO Scale version by Lionel. First ... MagneLock track, pain in the butt. Breath on it and you get a short. Swapped it out with Atlas Code 100. Since the set came out, biggest complaint by purchasers who normally had to then go get E-Z Track. Some people like MagneLock ... I'm not a fan of yet another proprietary track system. Especially one that doesn't stay connected properly. Sorry Lionel, you missed the mark ... should have made HO Fast Track.
The next issue ... the LionChief remote. You have a 1 in 3 chance of getting one that's defective. Even now. Yes you can use the Bluetooth app and run the locomotive from your phone or put a DCC decoder for additional cost into it ... but you paid for a LionChief remote so you shouldn't have to put a DCC decoder or fuss around getting a phone app to work. I got 2 defective ones before I finally received a functional one (after 4 months). Strike two Lionel on poor quality control.
But the biggest issue I had with the HO scale version ... the locomotive itself. More importantly, it's motor. For the pricetag this set still demands, you'd think from Lionel that you'd get something along the lines in qiality of a lower end Proto 2000 or Spectrum series. Nope. Poor tooling, poor quality control ... reminded me of the days of Tyco and it's "Run 2 Weeks - Dead Forever" locomotives. Well, the locomotive unit did run for almost a year (running it off an on, not continuously) ... motor cracked. It's replacement had circuit board issues - ran for awhile and then just died. Third one appears to be working fine for now. But strike three Lionel - you need to bid out your product manufacturing better.
It was a good move on Lionel's part to capitalize on the Polar Express wave of popularity. But, as was said before, if this was Lionel testing the waters to get back into 1:87 ... concept was great, execution was mediocre, price point set too high in order to make a quick profit. Lionel stumbled, didn't bring their A Game, and tried to slide by on the cheap under the cover of the Polar Express market. We're past the days when if a Tyco locomotive literally "smoked itself" you just shrugged (after a few, possibly a lot of, choice words) and said "well, that's Tyco for you." Tyco was expected to be mediocre out of the box. But Lionel ... especially if you are an O and O27 enthusiast like me ... we've come to expect more.
In all, I still like the set now after getting everything straightened out ... just wish Lionel hadn't skimped on quality which ultimately shot themselves in the foot. And if you're going to make a steam locomotive, make one that smokes.
Interesting to see this thread pop up and to read the review of the new set.
My son asked me about this set just the other day and my response was "maybe someday", for which the translation is "probably not".
Disappointed to hear that magnalock may be a bit of a bust but no disappointed than I was to read initially that Lionel was developing a new proprietary track system. Disappointed to read about the poor quality of the loco also.
We'll see what the future holds. When the kids were interested in Hogwarts express a buddy found me a deal on some coaches and I repainted a Tri-Ang Princess class. That made them all very happy for very little money.
Maybe a similar opportunity will arise for Polar Express. I do have a trio of junky Athearn coaches in my parts bin...
Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad for Chicago Trainspotting and Budget Model Railroading.
D***, that sucks to hear of the quality issues with Lionels HO Polar Express, I was going to buy the set this christmas.
How about Lionel's O scale Polar Express set? Is it worth it, or do they have quality issues too? I see they have a new 15th Anniversary LionCheif set for $359 at Trainworld available on 10/29. https://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/lionel-trains/Lionel+Polar+Express/lionel-1923030-the-polar-express-15th-anniversary-lionchief-set-w-bluetooth/
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
MotleyHow about Lionel's O scale Polar Express set? Is it worth it, or do they have quality issues too? I see they have a new 15th Anniversary LionCheif set for $359 at Trainworld available on 10/29.
The one I bought about 4 years ago runs fine, straight A/C not bluetooth or Lion Chief.
Paul
For now, I will just stick with the post-war Lionel that I take down once in a while to run.
Joe Staten Island West
My wife gave me the O scale Lionchief/Bluetooth set for my birthday. It runs well through the controller and using my phone. It's a lot fun and I'm looking forward to using it on my Christmas layout. I have interest in the HO version for a Christmas layout as well.
Lionel's whole entry back into HO scale has been an odd thing to watch... Especially with all the re-released Model Power tooling stuff they have been doing of late. I'm sure it will be a nice low price entry point into model and toy trains for many people, but I can't help but feel the quality is a bit lackluster.
If you think Lionel will sell anything at a low price point, you need to think again.
I’d love to see Lionel become a major HO player, but they seem to be happy pumping out toy-like products.
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Hi all
No point arguing about cost it costs what it costs the manufacturer isn't going to drop the price.
I go back to my original question is it a reasonably accurate representation of The Polar Express as portrayed in the movie that, and is it proportionally right with HO scale trains is the only way to judge it.
If it meets that criteria when I can afford one I will get one the molded on detail doesn't matter it is intended for children and the inner child not as a serious model of a real train. I am sure some will get it and add extra details so it better matches there model trains.
But better to leave as is so your not terrified to let the children or grand children play with it.
I haven't forgoten the wrong locomotive in a movie based train set I bought and it just made me mad, and still does when I think of it because later after an uproar from customers.
The right loco was made in the right colour as an extra model and I don't have the cash to spend on that second locomotive.
It should be right from the begining.
regards John
Jumijo If you think Lionel will sell anything at a low price point, you need to think again. I’d love to see Lionel become a major HO player, but they seem to be happy pumping out toy-like products.
Why? Lionel brings nothing special to the table? They have never understood the HO market and likely never will.
That is why they have never done well in HO.
That's what they are, a toy train company, not a model train company.
What´s all this fussing about Lionel´s Polar Train? The train is what it is intended to be - a toy train. People will buy it just for that, so what?
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
ATLANTIC CENTRALWhy? Lionel brings nothing special to the table? They have never understood the HO market and likely never will. That is why they have never done well in HO. That's what they are, a toy train company, not a model train company.
It could be Lionel assumes HO modellers are like O gaugers - a mix of toy train collectors, 'operators' and scale/hi-railers.
In HO Bachmann makes a model of the engine the Polar Express engine is based on, Pere Marquette 1225. Seems to me years back they did a version lettered for the Polar Express, but I may be wrong. It certainly wouldn't be hard to re-letter the tender and, if desired, change the pilot to match the movie engine. The sounds of the engine in the movie were recorded from the real 1225.
wjstix ATLANTIC CENTRAL Why? Lionel brings nothing special to the table? They have never understood the HO market and likely never will. That is why they have never done well in HO. That's what they are, a toy train company, not a model train company. It could be Lionel assumes HO modellers are like O gaugers - a mix of toy train collectors, 'operators' and scale/hi-railers. In HO Bachmann makes a model of the engine the Polar Express engine is based on, Pere Marquette 1225. Seems to me years back they did a version lettered for the Polar Express, but I may be wrong. It certainly wouldn't be hard to re-letter the tender and, if desired, change the pilot to match the movie engine. The sounds of the engine in the movie were recorded from the real 1225.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Why? Lionel brings nothing special to the table? They have never understood the HO market and likely never will. That is why they have never done well in HO. That's what they are, a toy train company, not a model train company.
That is exactly what they have always assumed. That is why they have always failed in HO.
For me the Polar Express and similar offerings are a non starter from anyone. My eight year old grandson has even out grown those sorts of trains.
HO-Scale-ModelRailroader I know this is an old thread, LOL, but it does come up when searching HO Scale Lionel Polar Express ... and since Christmas is once again around the corner (seeing that it begins before Halloween now LOL) I figured I'd put my 2 cents into the cup. Yes I am a rivet counter. Yes I am a toy tain lover. Yes, the two coexist on my layout and you'll see old Tyco sided next to Broadway Limited and old Plasticville mingled in with Woodland Scenics. When I forked out a paycheck (LOL) for the Lionel Polar Express set, I fully intended it to be a scaled down version of the O27 Polar Express set from the movie locomotive and consist. For people wanting a "prototypical" Polar Express, you missed the point ... LOL ... fantasy holiday movie, fantasy version of a locomotive "based on, but not exact to" the Pere Marquette 1225, Berkshire N-1 class 2-8-4 locomotive. In the original book, the locomotive is a generic 4-6-2 anyway ... so we can dispense with "Prototype Polar Express" talk. :^) The movie's not even using the right locomotive. Well, on to the HO Scale version by Lionel. First ... MagneLock track, pain in the butt. Breath on it and you get a short. Swapped it out with Atlas Code 100. Since the set came out, biggest complaint by purchasers who normally had to then go get E-Z Track. Some people like MagneLock ... I'm not a fan of yet another proprietary track system. Especially one that doesn't stay connected properly. Sorry Lionel, you missed the mark ... should have made HO Fast Track. The next issue ... the LionChief remote. You have a 1 in 3 chance of getting one that's defective. Even now. Yes you can use the Bluetooth app and run the locomotive from your phone or put a DCC decoder for additional cost into it ... but you paid for a LionChief remote so you shouldn't have to put a DCC decoder or fuss around getting a phone app to work. I got 2 defective ones before I finally received a functional one (after 4 months). Strike two Lionel on poor quality control. But the biggest issue I had with the HO scale version ... the locomotive itself. More importantly, it's motor. For the pricetag this set still demands, you'd think from Lionel that you'd get something along the lines in qiality of a lower end Proto 2000 or Spectrum series. Nope. Poor tooling, poor quality control ... reminded me of the days of Tyco and it's "Run 2 Weeks - Dead Forever" locomotives. Well, the locomotive unit did run for almost a year (running it off an on, not continuously) ... motor cracked. It's replacement had circuit board issues - ran for awhile and then just died. Third one appears to be working fine for now. But strike three Lionel - you need to bid out your product manufacturing better. It was a good move on Lionel's part to capitalize on the Polar Express wave of popularity. But, as was said before, if this was Lionel testing the waters to get back into 1:87 ... concept was great, execution was mediocre, price point set too high in order to make a quick profit. Lionel stumbled, didn't bring their A Game, and tried to slide by on the cheap under the cover of the Polar Express market. We're past the days when if a Tyco locomotive literally "smoked itself" you just shrugged (after a few, possibly a lot of, choice words) and said "well, that's Tyco for you." Tyco was expected to be mediocre out of the box. But Lionel ... especially if you are an O and O27 enthusiast like me ... we've come to expect more. In all, I still like the set now after getting everything straightened out ... just wish Lionel hadn't skimped on quality which ultimately shot themselves in the foot. And if you're going to make a steam locomotive, make one that smokes.
Ok, I haven't paid much attention to this thread, but this has touched a nerve I've had recently.
The poor quality/reliability that you're describing harkens me back to my first train set in the 1970s. Got from a Sears catalog at Christmas. A Tyco. We set it up on the hardwood floor and the loco shorted and smoked immediately. My father, who was a professional electronics repair person (radar systems, TVs, complex stuff for the day) took the shell off and claimed the whole thing was just a pile of junk. Lucky if it works. Lucky if the track stays together. Lucky if the transformer doesn't over heat.
Now you're describing basically the same thing. Must be the trainset culture of the manufactures, or maybe just Lionel. Hit and miss. Some run, some don't, its just the way the hobby is. Manufacturers can't do anything about it. Its part of the hobby, and its up to you to be their quality control guy. If not, you just live with the product not working. Must be a cultural view of our hobby that I don't understand, and will never understand.
IMO, if it doesn't work, its defective. It might be designed that way, but if its designed in a way to where it only works some of the time under certain conditions, its a poor design. More expense must be engineered into the product to make sure that each item works as intended; 100% of the time until useage or lack of maintenance catches up with it
Maybe its strictly trying to meet a price point and a profit margin, but that trainset culture that's been driven by producers; that says that the customer will simply have to learn to deal with performance shortcomings, turns newbies off from the hobby, IMO. Effectively, its a way of rejecting future customers.
- Douglas
Tinplate Toddler What´s all this fussing about Lionel´s Polar Train? The train is what it is intended to be - a toy train. People will buy it just for that, so what?
Honestly if I were to buy this set for say around the tree. I would spend a bit more money and get the O gauge set.
joe323 Honestly if I were to buy this set for say around the tree. I would spend a bit more money and get the O gauge set.
Agreed, or maybe G. So many Christmases I've been tempted to get a G scale for a Christmas tree. Its been many years since I did even a token HO train around a tree.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
HO seems just too small to put ont he floor under a 6 or 7 foot tall tree. The HO loop that I was running in an old home movie when I was about 2, that was a short tree, sitting on a table that was higher than I was - I'm standing on a chair in the movie. Yes, movie, 8mm, silent - there were no home video recorders back then.
G goes nicely around a floor standing tree. Big enough not to get smashed by presents, big enough to see.
Hi-rail O scale works too, but I still think G is the best option. I used to set up a loop of my Dad's old Lionel set around the tree for many years.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
We have had a Bachmann On30 set running around the tree for 23 years now, with a village of ceramic houses.
Actually, over just a few years time, 20 plus years ago, I bought the wife a large collection of those ceramic structures and accessories, with plans to set up a larger On30 "Christmas Garden", but that nevery fully came about at the old house.
We did often set up a village scene both under the tree and on a nearby "sofa table".
Maybe now in the new house I will figure out a plan to set up a bigger Christmas Garden separate from the tree and use most of the houses and accessories........
Yes, HO always seemed to small for under the tree.
riogrande5761 Actually G would be too big for my space I have several plastic trains for the tree and my partly homemade Lionel Hanukkah train that mosly days on display because it is too noisy to run around the tree. I also have an HO M & M set and a Disney monorail that have been under the tree. Polar express set seems unlikely for me. joe323 Honestly if I were to buy this set for say around the tree. I would spend a bit more money and get the O gauge set. Agreed, or maybe G. So many Christmases I've been tempted to get a G scale for a Christmas tree. Its been many years since I did even a token HO train around a tree.
Actually G would be too big for my space I have several plastic trains for the tree and my partly homemade Lionel Hanukkah train that mosly days on display because it is too noisy to run around the tree. I also have an HO M & M set and a Disney monorail that have been under the tree. Polar express set seems unlikely for me.
joe323 riogrande5761 Actually G would be too big for my space I have several plastic trains for the tree and my partly homemade Lionel Hanukkah train that mosly days on display because it is too noisy to run around the tree. I also have an HO M & M set and a Disney monorail that have been under the tree. Polar express set seems unlikely for me. joe323 Honestly if I were to buy this set for say around the tree. I would spend a bit more money and get the O gauge set. Agreed, or maybe G. So many Christmases I've been tempted to get a G scale for a Christmas tree. Its been many years since I did even a token HO train around a tree.
Lionel Makes a Battery Powered G'ish version. I think it looks good for what it is and it's only 80 bucks. Would look great around a tree. They've got quite a few good looking stylized battery/RC powered G sets that would be an affordable way to put a nice big train under the tree. IIRC, they run about 50" or so in diameter and include a few strait pieces too. Switches are even available separately.
As for what scale to go around a tree, I think classic O-27 equipment looks best. Big enough to stand out, sturdy enough to be handled by children and compressed enough to not look ridiculous navigating a tight round-the-tree loop.
I hobby HO, but we've had an O-36 loop around the tree almost since my kids were born with lots of Plasticville-and-similar buildings and various die cast. It started with a Lionel Scout set given to my son when he was born. Some rolling stock was bought deliberately, but mostly it's grown through bargains found at resale and now we've got a pretty full suitcase full of trains.
Setting it up is something I look forward to every year.
Well O or 027 might be best it not when the downstairs neighbor, Landlord and Mother in Law says it sounds like we are sawing through the floor. I think its that noisy Fastrack that's to blame!