The polar express is my favorite Christmas movie.
So a HO polar express set is right up my ally. I would like it to be a quality set, but not expecting top notch detailing like a Genisis engine Or 85' passenger cars. The cars look like 70' with window strips.
After looking at James Wrights video of the NMRA show and after seeing the new Lionel Ho polar express at Lionel booth.
The engine is low on detail and some are moulded in like the handrails.
Although the detail is on the low side the engine still looks nice. The passenger cars are 70' with window strips for the interior.
The Lionel spokesman did say if this goes well then they will be back into Ho fully.
The "Polar Express" sets have been an absolute gold mine for Lionel, so it shouldn't surprise anyone they're going to test the HO waters as far as the "PE" is concerned.
MTH is probably kicking themselves they didn't get it first, but after getting burned by the "Wild, Wild West" series they put out to go with the 1999 movie I can understand the reluctance.
DAVID FORTNEY After looking at James Wrights video of the NMRA show and after seeing the new Lionel Ho polar express at Lionel booth. The engine is low on detail and some are moulded in like the handrails. Although the detail is on the low side the engine still looks nice. The passenger cars are 70' with window strips for the interior. The Lionel spokesman did say if this goes well then they will be back into Ho fully.
Looking at the photos on the Lionel website, the locomotive is a scale model but as noted, the detail is largely moulded on and is relatively coarse.
The price of $249 is a good price for a sound equipped loco, $100 less than the RRP of the Bachmann Pere Marquette 1225 with sound (although I imagine you can get it for less than that...)
However, and I'm sure some people won't agrre with this, the Bachmann model is a much better scale model and may well be better quality. Since Bachmann make an unlettered model, I'd expect that I'd get that and letter it for the "Polar Express" in preference to the coarse finish on the Lionel locomotive. You could purchase the Lionel cars to run with it...
M636C
M636CThe price of $249 is a good price for a sound equipped loco ...
While it may be a good price for a sound equipped loco if it had most of the important detail separately applied, the price is too high for the targeted customers in the toy train/train set market segment to which it will mainly appeal.
It may also appeal to folks who wish to go back in time, say, to the 1950´s or 1960´s, but this is 2016!
My verdict: Kids stuff, but too expensive for that!
While I have no use for the polar express per se it will be interesting to see how the set is made. Hopefully the quality is better than what I remember of old Lionel HO
Joe Staten Island West
The sound version of the Bachmann Berkshire can be had for $200, or less. And it is a very nicely detailed model that runs well. I have five of the non sound versions.
The pictures of the LIONEL Polar Express make it out to be just what I expected, a crude HO version of a piece of 1948 tinplate - if that does it for you, good for you. But I think they are making a huge mistake.
The HO market has changed, or a better word would be it has "diversified", to include a group of modelers/collectors similar to those who buy the current (last 10-15 years) crop of scale model three rail.
That group seems willing to accept some compromises in detail in favor of durablity and ease of handling, but they still expect scale models - not toys.
LIONEL still seems clueless about the HO market, and MTH still thinks they can convert the whole HO market into the group described above.
Broadway Limited tries to capture this new market, and the traditional HO modeler market - not always hitting the mark.
When the LIONEL Polar Express goes on clearance sale at Trainworld, if they are cheap enough, I will get my grandson one to go with his Bachmann HO Thomas and Chuggington stuff - he is 5.
Sheldon
Definitely kids stuff, but I definitely have kids who love that movie. My youngest daughter gets a train-related gift every Christmas; maybe something other than Thomas this year?
Stu
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
The Lionel model they had at the show looked like a respectable model of the locomotive in Polar Express, with its exaggerated pilot.
It's not a close model of a PM Berkshire, because it is not intended to be one.
The comparison I make is that the Polar Express locomotive is a movie adaptation of PM #1225 in a rather more accurate way than Bladerunner was a movie adaptation of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
fmilhauptIt's not a close model of a PM Berkshire, because it is not intended to be one.
So this discussion should be "over there" - in the CTT forum....
Some of you guys are missing the whole point, the engine is not a model of the real 1225, it is a model depicted in the movie.
And Sir madog why should it be discussed in the CTT forum when the scale is Ho.
if you don't like the thread please pass it by.
Rastafarr Definitely kids stuff, but I definitely have kids who love that movie. My youngest daughter gets a train-related gift every Christmas; maybe something other than Thomas this year? Stu
Thank you Lionel for thinking outside the box.
DAVID FORTNEY Some of you guys are missing the whole point, the engine is not a model of the real 1225, it is a model depicted in the movie. And Sir madog why should it be discussed in the CTT forum when the scale is Ho. if you don't like the thread please pass it by.
Like I said, if they get cheap enough I will buy the grandson one. But not being a "collector" of toy trains, model trains, movie novelties, memorabilia in general, it is about the last thing in the world I would buy for myself or pay anything close to full price for.
It is clearly time for me to stop reading this forum, it is getting farther and farther away from the hobby that I am in......
DAVID FORTNEYAnd Sir madog why should it be discussed in the CTT forum when the scale is Ho.
The scale is irrelevant - a model of a toy is still a toy. And, btw, is is HO, not Ho - like in Ho, ho, ho.
One more point, just because I do not agree to you does not mean I am not interested in a thread, nor can you keep me from answering to it.
Sheldon - I can only agree - the quality of the contributions is a far cry from what it used to be. The Layout and Layout Construction forum is nearly dead and the General Discussion and Electronics and DCC forums are inundated with silly questions, which lead to nowhere.
One last answer to the OP´s question of who will buy Lionel´s HO Polar Express set - certainly not me, although I don´t mind toy trains at all! I even think of building an HO scale nostalgia layout using old Marklin tin-plate stuff.
Hey guys, if the polar express is not for you then pass it buy. Nobody is twisting your arm to buy it or even posting about it.
Sorry if the contributions are not too your standards but I like it the way it is for the most part. Too many take themselves to seriously.
I have been in the hobby for 45 years and built some incredible layouts and have bought some incredible trains, brass and plastic. Beautiful representations of the real thing but after saying that, they are still toys. Call them models if you wish but to me they are toys.
Hi sir madog
Rather you than me I suspect the prices of the old marklin tin plate will be like Hornby Dublo prices if your not carefull off the planet
I might buy the Polar Express, but if its not exactly like the movie train
not interested and if its to high priced not interested.
Wasn't happy with Hornby when I found out the Hogwarts express wasn't because it had the wrong type of locomotive and that they could of easily got it right and I can't aford Alton hall to make the train right
Toy or model it has to be right and I suspect the childeren will be worse critics than me.
regards John
John - a lot of that old Marklin stuff is far better than your average toy train set of the 1960´s. With a little TLC, it is literally indestructible. There is a large market of used, but good stuff here in my country - at reasonable prices, if you are a little patient and ignore the "Buy it now" button.
DAVID FORTNEY Hey guys, if the polar express is not for you then pass it buy. Nobody is twisting your arm to buy it or even posting about it. Sorry if the contributions are not too your standards but I like it the way it is for the most part. Too many take themselves to seriously. I have been in the hobby for 45 years and built some incredible layouts and have bought some incredible trains, brass and plastic. Beautiful representations of the real thing but after saying that, they are still toys. Call them models if you wish but to me they are toys.
Agreed, everyone should enjoy the hobby as they see fit, but your choice of words is very telling of how you are in a different "area" of the hobby from me. You "built" layouts, and "bought" trains.
I like to build at least some portion of the trains as well, not just buy them. Even when it means buying one RTR and materially changing it into something else.
Should I have to settle for what the manufacturers make in the way of locos and rolling stock, I would likely get out of the hobby for several reasons.........
It is not a matter judging "standards" as being higher or lower, but rather spending ones time on what is of most interest. I'm only even on this forum right now because I generally like to follow a conversation to some reasonable conclusion once I begin.
And, having worked in this business, I do have a passing interest in "industry" developements......however foolish they seem.
But, generally speaking, I find conversation with the guy who restored a 1957 Chevy more interesting than the guy who bought a BMW..........
I'll be quiet now......I have trains to build.
Sir Madog - a lot of that old Marklin stuff is far better than your average toy train set of the 1960
Russell
I watched the Wright video (very enjoyable I might add, even though I don't do HO and did do N for a while), saw the Lionel "PE" segment, and you know what? It's a toy, made for (I'd assume) older kids to play and have fun with and meant to endure rough handling, unlike a more sophisticated model. It would also fill a need for people who want a "Polar Express" under the Christmas tree but don't have the room for the O gauge version.
And if it's got a good entry-level price on it and brings more people into the hobby, then what's wrong with that?
Mind you, Lionel has two variations on the O gauge "PE", one the standard set and a deluxe O gauge "Scale" version of the 1225 locomotive, which is definately not for kids, considering the price.
The title of the thread is "Who will buy.......? Some responses are basically stating why they would not buy, which seems to answer the title.
It seems to me that the train is a model of a cartoon. A train in a movie series. That's fine, and it may sell very well, but I'm not sure why Lionel would use this toy as a gauge for getting back into HO scale on a volume basis.
- Douglas
Firelock76 I watched the Wright video (very enjoyable I might add, even though I don't do HO and did do N for a while), saw the Lionel "PE" segment, and you know what? It's a toy, made for (I'd assume) older kids to play and have fun with and meant to endure rough handling, unlike a more sophisticated model. It would also fill a need for people who want a "Polar Express" under the Christmas tree but don't have the room for the O gauge version. And if it's got a good entry-level price on it and brings more people into the hobby, then what's wrong with that? Mind you, Lionel has two variations on the O gauge "PE", one the standard set and a deluxe O gauge "Scale" version of the 1225 locomotive, which is definately not for kids, considering the price.
How does the Lionel "toy" differ from the Rapido "toy" or the Athearn "toy"? At the end of the day, aren't they all approximate facsimiles? Whether it be a very real engine or from a fictional movie?
Anyway, to answer the question I'd consider buying the Lionel train. I'm a huge fan of their 50's and 60's era HO, and don't take my layout so seriously like some people here.
Know exactly what you mean was lucky enough to slowly build up a train load
of suposedely very rare Dublo mineral wagons for glass sand for a reasonable price.
They where not rare they can't of been other wise I could not have picked up a train load (15) at roughly $10 AU each
If they where that rare they would have been a lot more per wagon and far harder to find.
So like you say you have to be a bit on the careful side with the older now colectable trains even the new colectables can be ouch prices.
TheWizard Anyway, to answer the question I'd consider buying the Lionel train. I'm a huge fan of their 50's and 60's era HO, and don't take my layout so seriously like some people here.
There was even one recent thread from a guy who planned to let his grandkids design the solar system on his layout. So, I don't see any harm in someone adding a Lionel HO scale Polar Express on his layout.
Rich
Alton Junction
DAVID FORTNEY Rastafarr Definitely kids stuff, but I definitely have kids who love that movie. My youngest daughter gets a train-related gift every Christmas; maybe something other than Thomas this year? Stu Btw, not kids stuff ( I'm 70 ) I will buy the engine and passenger cars to run around my layout at Christmas time. It will take center stage during that time no matter what my train freinds say.
Btw, not kids stuff ( I'm 70 ) I will buy the engine and passenger cars to run around my layout at Christmas time. It will take center stage during that time no matter what my train freinds say.
It is tooled and being marketed at kids clearly, so I think rastafar is right about that. Most seem to agree when this new Lionel offering is brought up in response to the new announcement.
That said, obviously there are many middle aged men building layouts and running "toy" O-27 trains from Lionel; I'd wager the lions share of the money being spent on O-27 is by older men who remember the trains of their childhood and now have the cash to go all-out. Popularity was such that other companies have joined in making O-27. My first electric train set was Lionel O-27 which I received for Christmas back in 1963 as a wee 4 year old. When I got older, I preferred "scale" trains so didn't follow the Lionel route in middle ages. Nothing "wrong" with it; whats the old saying, the difference between men and boys is the price of thier toys! That said, I think it's safe to say that Lionel tooled and marketed the Polar Express at youngn's.
I'm not sure what you mean. The Polar Express fits very well into the genre that Lionel builds electric trains for, the toy train genre. It doesn't seem "out of the box" for Lionel at all, but the type of thing I would expect them to make.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
DAVID FORTNEY Hey guys, if the polar express is not for you then pass it buy. Nobody is twisting your arm to buy it or even posting about it.
David,
You did ask a question in your title "Who will buy Lionel's HO polar express?" If you don't want or you're not interested in people answering the question then you should probably rephrase your posts titles. That helps to avoid any misunderstandings.
OTOH, if you do ask a question then don't get bent out of shape if folks answer it honestly, not to your liking, or how you expected. Our hobby is broad and we can all enjoy it how we want to - whether we see or model it the same or not.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Good point. There seems to be a trend of some starting topics and then not liking the responses yet the responses were elicited by the original posts supposition or question to be completely fair. If you aren't prepared to take the responses, then think more carefully before starting a new topic - or to quote an old saying, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
In response to the opening title, I won't be buying the Polar Express from Lionel; I am not into fantasy stuff or toy genre trains, but I certainly expect it will be a popular and a good seller!
Threads are like conversations - they wander.
Since I already have the O27 Polar Express with extra cars, I won't be buying the HO version. My PE is the older version that runs off the regular power pack (CW80 in my case) vice the LionChief.
My basement is large enough that I have a separate 6'x12' Lionel layout for my 5 year old grandson.
Enjoy
Paul
Looking at the pics Lionel has on their website
http://www.lionel.com/products/the-polar-expresstm-berkshire-ho-scale-locomotive-and-tender-with-remote-6-58018/
It looks like the engine is a scaled down 3-rail model. Same "toy train" level of detail. It's an interesting approach, and not meant to compete with the Bachmann model at all.
While modeler types will look down at the cast on parts, horrible (to us) cab detail, and no front coupler, it will appeal to parents buying it for children. No fiddly bits to break off. It has that durable "Lionel" look. The coaches have the same look to them. It may be surprising how well this sells.
$ 249.99 for the loco, plus $149.99 for the three-car set, plus track - adds up to $450 minimum. That´s more than the O gauge set, which certainly has more "play value" than the scaled down version call HO scale.