Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Question about layout height

10452 views
35 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Question about layout height
Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, July 8, 2016 12:50 PM

My question is a simple one, why is it that so many layouts are well over 42” above the floor?  My current (and my 3 previous layouts) is just above table height at 34”.  My reasons are it gives me more reach into the center of my layout, I normally sit down in a comfortable chair when operating my trains, it generally works out very good for little eyes and taller visitors can see more up close by leaning in a bit.
 
I find it easier to work on the under the layout stuff too, I can use a mechanic’s creeper to comfortably work on my wiring and switch machines.  I also bought a Top Side Creeper that wouldn’t work out near as good if my layout was higher.
 
My hobby room workbench is at the same level as my computer workstation, 32”.  I have them next to each other for easy accessibility between the two of them from my super comfortable high back roll around computer chair.
 
I have a small workbench in the garage with my layout that is also at 34”, it supports a 5” vise and my bench drill press.
 
If you wondering about me being lazy, I am!  That was one of the reasons for my earlier layouts but now I’ll be 79 years old in a couple of weeks, I just get tired of standing and everything hurts.
 
Just wondering.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
    November 2015
  • 723 posts
Posted by UNCLEBUTCH on Friday, July 8, 2016 1:19 PM

I don't mean to be a smart a**. but all the I s in your post answers your question.

I believe all train tables are built to the builder's spects, for a lot of reasons.

Mine is around 50in. Thats the lenght of the material I had on hand. I can reach every thing, I think its good viewing,and allows to work under along with storage.

Its mine built for me

  • Member since
    February 2015
  • From: Ludington, MI
  • 1,860 posts
Posted by Water Level Route on Friday, July 8, 2016 1:27 PM
Mel, I believe much of it has to do with a desire to operate while standing versus sitting. While you could wheel a chair around the room, I think many people find it simpler to walk along with their trains if they are lucky enough to have a set-up of that design and are still able to physically without too many aches and pains. My current layout is a walkaround in the 46-54 in range and I spend most of my time standing up and appreciate the closer views of a layout of that height. When I need to be in a single spot for any length of time and don't feel like standing, that's when the bar stool comes out!

Mike

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
  • 6,847 posts
Posted by jrbernier on Friday, July 8, 2016 1:44 PM

Mel, 

  As folks got into 'operation' and walk-around layout design, having the layout at 'eye' level became popular.

  Back in the 60's, MR suggested 42" for basic layout  height.  By the 70's, 48" and up became popular. The walk-around designs with 24" to 30" wide scenes were reachable on 48"+ high layouts.  My old layout varied from 48" to 54", and I am 5'8" tall.  I used a step stool when I needed to reach something in a corner.  Our club is around 54" as well...

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,204 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Friday, July 8, 2016 2:03 PM

My current layout is 50" and is a walk around.  Two layouts ago it was 58" which was great for the duckunder and viewing the near train but a little hard to see second trains.  58" was also harder to work on.  I find 50" a good compromise between easy to work on and good viewing angle. plus my wife and children who are shorter than I am (I'm 5'11") can see it.

All that said, if I were in HO I would try 54".  N scale I would probably do at 58".  But for S scale, 50" works well.

I also have a small test layout that is 5'4" x 12' that is 36" high and I run it from a chair.  My Lionel layout (6' x 12') that my grandson likes to run is also 36" high.  We can run it from a chair or he can walk around it for a closer view.  Plus the lower height makes reaching the center possible.

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
  • Member since
    August 2013
  • From: Richmond, VA
  • 1,890 posts
Posted by carl425 on Friday, July 8, 2016 2:11 PM

I have east end staging at 31" and west end staging at 74".  Sceniced levels are at 42" and 60".

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, July 8, 2016 2:20 PM

RR_Mel

If you wondering about me being lazy, I am!  That was one of the reasons for my earlier layouts but now I’ll be 79 years old in a couple of weeks, I just get tired of standing and everything hurts.
 

LOL

Last week, you said that you were 88 years old.  Typo?

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, July 8, 2016 2:57 PM

Yea, typo Im 78 until the end of teh month, I feel 88.

 

Mel

 

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, July 8, 2016 2:58 PM

RR_Mel

Yea, typo Im 78 until the end of teh month, I feel 88.

 

Mel

 

 

Happy Birthday!

BTW, my layout height is 36" height. I think that is a good height for sitting and viewing and operating.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, July 8, 2016 3:09 PM

I’m so glad now that I built my layout closer to the floor, I can pick up dropped stuff with a grabber and put it back on the layout easier.
 
Just for you young guys, any thing you brake when your young comes back to haunt you starting at about 65 or so and get worse as time moves on.  So build your layout with that in mind.
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, July 8, 2016 3:13 PM

My partially double-decked layout varies in height, from 36" to 59".  The lower level (the portion below the upper level) is meant to be operated from rolling office-type chairs, while most of the transition between levels can be operated either from the same chairs or while standing.  The upper level is operated while standing, while stepstools are available when needed, especially when doing layout work on the upper level.

Wayne

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Staten Island NY
  • 1,734 posts
Posted by joe323 on Friday, July 8, 2016 4:00 PM

Because the SIW is only 24" deep and benchwork is designed around short file cabinets reach is not an issue as I roll around inmy layou chair.

Joe Staten Island West 

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point)
  • 11,439 posts
Posted by dknelson on Friday, July 8, 2016 4:41 PM

I built my layout tall, to suit me (I am 6'8", or at least I was when I started the darn thing).  I recognize that many shorter visitors will not be able to see deep into some scenes due to that height.   I might add that my prototype is fairly flat/Midwestern.  A mountain layout might well work lower with the viewer looking down at the trains but straight at (or up at) the mountain peaks. 

I find it agony to visit or operate on double deck layouts because the lower decks are just too low.  Don't even get me started about "duck unders."    I hear Mel's point about age and backs however, and should I ever need to sit to operate then my layout will have to be cut down.  It will be way too tall to sit at.

I will say that the ideal height for someone who lays flex track might be different than the ideal height for someone who hand-lays their track.  I certainly know that soldering feeds to the outside of the  far rails is a challenge at the height I chose (roughly armpit height).

Dave Nelson

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,449 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Friday, July 8, 2016 5:25 PM

It all comes down to "builder's choice", and that goes along with the old saying...."different strokes for different folks".

Having had layouts from about 30 inches to 42 inches, I can attest that each had their plus/minus attributes.  My current layout's main level is 41 inches, with the lower level staging at about 20 or so inches.   If I had only one level, I would likely go for 38-40 or so inches.   But that is just me, a 5' 9 1/2" 225 lbs old guy. 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: NW Pa Snow-belt.
  • 2,216 posts
Posted by ricktrains4824 on Friday, July 8, 2016 5:29 PM

My layout (partially unassembled currently) is/was set at 54" high. Reason? I can clear the 48" high book cases and storage units underneath it, and have a few inches to play with for scenery "below grade" where needed.

My height? I am a short 5'7" tall. So, yes, it is/was a stretch to work on, but that is what a step stool is for. 

But, HO scale trains do look a better when near/just below eye level, compared with the "birds-eye view" of some other layouts. 

Some of the display tracks are considerably higher, needing a step stool just to reach, but they do not operate. (And the tallest holds items rarely operated, for a variety of reasons, therefore do not need reached that often.) 

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 685 posts
Posted by Howard Zane on Friday, July 8, 2016 5:32 PM

Layout height is a matter of what works best for builder. There are really no standards. My pike has a base level of 54' and benchwork is at 48" which allows  ample room for negative scenery (desends below track level). This height of 54" and in areas up to 66" in mining areas allows trains and structures to be viewed at almost eye level. Then it is considerably easier to work under bench, and also leaves a shorter distance in background to scenic. At lower track levels, a distance of 4 feet and sometimes greater from layout base to ceiling can be difficult to effectively scenic.

I have seen several pikes with heights of 36" to 42" and viewing often is like looking out of helicopter window....which again some folks prefer. My goal is realism and close to eye level viewing offers this for me. Sitting? A simple bar stool works perfectly with this level. I do prefer standing and walking with train. My mainline is over 23 scale miles (over 1400'). I enjoy telling my wife, Sandy..."excercise? I just walked 23 miles with the choo choo.

HZ

Howard Zane
  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: NW Pa Snow-belt.
  • 2,216 posts
Posted by ricktrains4824 on Friday, July 8, 2016 6:02 PM

Howard Zane
 

I enjoy telling my wife, Sandy..."excercise? I just walked 23 miles with the choo choo.

HZ

 

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me! Wink

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, July 8, 2016 6:14 PM

Mel, you and I are within days of the same age - and looking at things around similar problems.

The lowest track level on my double garage filler is 38 inches off the floor.  Tomikawa, the main station on the JNR was planned to be 42" (my prototype's track gauge) but came in at 44" because I didn't allow for the slope in the garage floor.  All of the netherworld is between those two levels, as is the rest of the visible JNR.

Everything else goes up, up and awaaay! (but not nearly as fast as Superman.)  The coal hauler stations will end up at 52 inches, 56 inches and 58 inches (after a one-turn downgrade helix - it was actually coming in at 64 inches.)  As things get higher, the reach-in distance for anything except scenery shortens.

If I ever build out any significant part of the two 762mm gauge feeders the tracks will be on a shelf with a rail height of >60"> along the south wall of the garage.  To get there the logger will wrap itself around a mountain, 3 turns worth.  The other line will use a slant-running elevator to connect levels.  (The prototype's is inside a mountain.  I'll keep mine visible.)

Some of our perceptions may come from how we first observed trains.  A lot of my early railfanning was done while sitting on a mountainside, or inside a tall building, looking down.  So was a lot of later trainwatching.  So I'm comfortable with the Blimp's eye view (not a helicopter.  No annoying wump-wump-wump...)  On the other hand, I explored the mines, the Kurobe Gorge and Kiso country at ground level, so having them well elevated works out for me.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, July 8, 2016 6:21 PM

dknelson

I built my layout tall, to suit me (I am 6'8", or at least I was when I started the darn thing).  I recognize that many shorter visitors will not be able to see deep into some scenes due to that height.   I might add that my prototype is fairly flat/Midwestern.  A mountain layout might well work lower with the viewer looking down at the trains but straight at (or up at) the mountain peaks. 

I find it agony to visit or operate on double deck layouts because the lower decks are just too low.  Don't even get me started about "duck unders."    I hear Mel's point about age and backs however, and should I ever need to sit to operate then my layout will have to be cut down.  It will be way too tall to sit at.

I will say that the ideal height for someone who lays flex track might be different than the ideal height for someone who hand-lays their track.  I certainly know that soldering feeds to the outside of the  far rails is a challenge at the height I chose (roughly armpit height).

Dave Nelson

 

 

Good points Dave!  I use flex track and I have mountains.  Fairly high mountains, 39” to tree top.   I’m 6’2” and don’t have a problem with the bird’s eye view or laying my track 27 years ago.  I have a large sack full of grand and greatgrand daughters between 30” and 4’ that really enjoy watching my railroad and my layout works out good for them.
 
The hardest thing to get over was conquering the creeper thing and I still have a slight problem accessing one area.  Getting old doesn’t help model railroading at all.  What I really need is a layout that is movable up and down with motors.  My ideal layout would be motorized from 18" to 42".
 
It's great to hear about your layouts guys, everyone has different requirements and I find it very interesting.
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
    April 2012
  • From: Huron, SD
  • 1,016 posts
Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Friday, July 8, 2016 7:22 PM

My last layout was chest height for me.  I loved the way it looked and operated, I deliberately built it with no inaccessible points, operations is the reason d'etre for my railroad, it made the "duck under" a lot easier, and I'll put my next layout at that height too.

And yeah, this getting older s*** ain't for sissies.

 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, July 8, 2016 8:06 PM

I like my ISLs 48" since that is around 12-14" below seated eye level or near "boots on the ground" viewing for me. Throwing a switch is no problem nor uncoupling cars since I use KD magnets.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 685 posts
Posted by Howard Zane on Friday, July 8, 2016 9:52 PM

In my previous post, I had forgot to mention about "duck unders". These are fine if you happen to be a duck. A layout with a 42" or lower bench is not kind to folks using duck unders. I can almost guarantee that in the planning stage of a pike, duck unders can be avoided.....and they should be avoided at all cost. As the builder gets older, the duck under always get lower and then some.

My original Piermont Division layout had two duck unders as I had 48" to bottom of bench work and I was 43 when I began this thing. After 10 years, and several visits to the chiropractor, I found that I was not spending as much time with the trains. Then in 2006, a visitor with......well let's say a bit overweight (450 lbs+) became wedged in after going to ramming speed. We had two pulling and two pushing on the caboose...to no avail. After a brief period, his back was hurting badly, so I grabbed the saws-all and cut him out thus eliminating a section of the layout. The next evening three model railroad buddies came over with pick-ups and more saws and section One became history.

Of course this is the extreme, but it sort of makes a point.

HZ

Howard Zane
  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, July 8, 2016 10:33 PM

Howard Zane
In my previous post, I had forgot to mention about "duck unders". These are fine if you happen to be a duck. A layout with a 42" or lower bench is not kind to folks using duck unders. I can almost guarantee that in the planning stage of a pike, duck unders can be avoided.....and they should be avoided at all cost. As the builder gets older, the duck under always get lower and then some.

Young flexible modelers can use those duck unders with ease.Its when old age and Uncle Arty moves in those duck unders become problematic. Of course layouts no longer last a life time so the young can enjoy those pit style layouts.

IMHO the best style for us antique modelers is around the walls or if they insist a pit style with lift. For the more robust modelers they should stick with a round the walls layout.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 618 posts
Posted by DAVID FORTNEY on Friday, July 8, 2016 10:47 PM

My layout is 52" high and is perfect for my 6'3" height. It's great for rail fanning my layout.

I also use a bar stool with a back so I can run trains when I'm tired and sore. Being older (70) is not for the young. 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, July 9, 2016 12:13 AM

Interesting discussion.

I'm going to have to operate my layout from a seated position. My back simply won't allow me to stand for very long.

I haven't figured out exactly what height yet.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, July 9, 2016 6:40 AM

DAVID FORTNEY
I also use a bar stool with a back so I can run trains when I'm tired and sore. Being older (70) is not for the young.

I used a bar stool with a back for years now,I'm 68 I prefer a nice comfy office chair.

Be nice if I could find one with "EMD" on the back.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: West Australia
  • 2,217 posts
Posted by John Busby on Saturday, July 9, 2016 7:34 AM

Hi all

Well my layout is nothing like the rediculouse recomended height's

I prefer to be able to reach my layout for work and play in comfort.

Without resorting to the use of ladders or other inconvieneces.

Must get a suitable chair shame I can't perminantly borrow a Loco chair

regards John

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point)
  • 11,439 posts
Posted by dknelson on Saturday, July 9, 2016 11:17 AM

Howard Zane

Then in 2006, a visitor with......well let's say a bit overweight (450 lbs+) became wedged in after going to ramming speed. We had two pulling and two pushing on the caboose...to no avail. After a brief period, his back was hurting badly, so I grabbed the saws-all and cut him out thus eliminating a section of the layout. 

HZ 

Good heavens Howard that is an amazing story.  I have seen such "slightly overweight" visitors walk into tight dead-end aisles and then need to ask for some help in backing their way out.  MR's Jim Hediger has referred to some layout visitors who "Exceed Plate C."

I guess the lesson is that those with duck unders and tight aisles who open their layouts to tours should always keep a can of Crisco handy just in case ....

Dave Nelson

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Saturday, July 9, 2016 12:15 PM

hon30critter

Interesting discussion.

I'm going to have to operate my layout from a seated position. My back simply won't allow me to stand for very long.

I haven't figured out exactly what height yet.

Dave

 

Pick out a very comfortable chair first Dave!  Do your layout planning sitting in the chair.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • 869 posts
Posted by davidmurray on Sunday, July 10, 2016 11:09 AM

Another consideration to think of is how you are going to run your trains.  A single operator, with one or two grandkids watching/helping can easily move around in a chair.  Group operations, a few adualts, with multple trains, each adult in an office chair, would be likely to present a greater ability to get in each others way.

As I was going for 3 cab, cab control, I used a fifty inch height for walk around.

At age 68, in a few years, this may cause problems, but one can hope not.

Dave

 

David Murray from Oshawa, Ontario Canada

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!