Sheldon,Great looking house you have there. Must be fun with those colors. My house, OTOH, has always been white. My grandparents bought the place in 1939. Somehow they got their hands on two photos showing the house when it was still pretty new. It included an unattached 3-story barn, a chicken coop/tool shed, and a tall windmill that had what appears to be a tank on top for water pressure (I guess). The two photos, one of which shows the windmill still being built, shows an all-white house, barn, shed, windmill, etc. The only color on the house today is on the wraparound porch. The deck boards and lattices under the porch are dark gray while the ceiling is sky blue. Other than that (and the pressure treated deck in the back), it's white.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1029731820762&l=5773db473b
Scott,My club uses radios with headsets because the dispatcher is on a second floor balcony behind glass windows and he's up to 130' from the operators. We also have a PA system.
In my case, I tell people to think of operations like a boardgame where the rules are reality. Not having some kind of structure to it (a timetable, train order, switchlist or waybill to tell the crew when and where to put the cars) is like playing Monopoly without dice: just move your race car or top hat to whatever space you want and buy the property. To me, there's no challenge to "Feel Good" ops because the instant some switch move looks like it may be difficult to pull off, they crew will just skip it. And that is just not realistic.
There are operators who take it too seriously. There are also operators who don't take it seriously enough. There are the "Gomez Addams"-type who think it's a big joke to have a wreck (especially with someone else's very expensive equipment). There are the guys who stack up 40' containers 3 feet high and then crash a toy car into them, causing a huge pileup all over the layout. Or the ones that starts cleaning his loco wheels right on the main. Another is the type that runs the wrong way down a one-way track causing a huge back-up just because he's bored, or the one that leaves his train on the mainline to go eat a donut. All these things have actually happened at my club, and not one of them had to do with paperwork.
Paul A. Cutler III
I'm more into the minature world building, mainly because one interest leads to another and another. A good example is modelling trees. I started out with a book on real trees and before you know it I'm interested in the real thing as much as recreating them in minature. Same with things like rivers, buildings, etc. Modelling forces one to see the world differently..
I was more of a railfanning theme layout with trains passing through cities and landscape scenery.
Lately I been trying to model a new layout with scenic railfanning and switching possibilities. That provided, difficult than easy. Probably that's why I wanted an operating session. I figured out it can handle 4 to 5 people to operate it, but normally it easily operated by one.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
Scott,
Thanks for the link...and a laugh. It's true, sometimes a layout just gets in the way of a good operating session. Besides, all that paperwork is much, much cheaper than actual 3D modeling, although it'll likely take just as long to finish both
I'm not sure the specific LT ops scheme works for me, but it does have some useful elements.
Personally I like having car cards. The older I get, the easier it is to have a chit to keep track of where things are. The bigger issue is keeping track of all the cards, but so long as you make sure evey train leaving a station has the correct card for every car in some way, you're good without anything else really. So that's at least one thing I'd change.
But the goal of eliminating paperwork to the maximum extent is a reasonable one for many of us. And we still manage to run trains. By myself, I rarely use a switchlist unless left over from a ops session set-up that didn't get used. I can look at the car cards to figure out what needs done. Now if I can just get 5 or 6 others to do the same, at the same time, I bet we'd still have lots of fun and value in an ops session.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehman I also noted you are (were?) a narrowgauger, a sure sign that in many ways, even if you're into ops, it might be preference for a far more relaxed approach to it. I noted my own preference to "have it all" on the last page. But I should amend that to say I want it all except the stress part -- at least on my own layout. So I modestly suggest that there's probably a third way out there that, if we must categorize (something I'm not real fond of, but that's how these discussions go), is represented by the idea of "stress free operations."
I also noted you are (were?) a narrowgauger, a sure sign that in many ways, even if you're into ops, it might be preference for a far more relaxed approach to it.
I noted my own preference to "have it all" on the last page. But I should amend that to say I want it all except the stress part -- at least on my own layout.
So I modestly suggest that there's probably a third way out there that, if we must categorize (something I'm not real fond of, but that's how these discussions go), is represented by the idea of "stress free operations."
An article I bookmarked long ago that I appreciate, but a lot of my local "operator" friends despise. http://www.ltths.org/car-forwarding.html
But it sums up how I feel. I enjoy an operational aspect to a model railroad. And I agree watching a train just go in circles is not my goal either. Whereas some railroaders really enjoy the intense operating aspect to model railroading, I am more of a person descibed in the above blog post. Simple, stress free operations.
I enjoy the operating sessions that I regularly attend, but I smirk inside at all the paperwork mumbo-jumbo, headsets (seriously?), and the operator frustration that results when a particular car (or more) is not located where the computer says it is. It's a hobby, not a job, and the attitudes of operators who take it too seriously is a major turn off for me and the reason I don't attend more than a few sessions.
Like I said, I have a tremendous appreciation for those who build these great operating schemes. They know far more about the rail industry than I ever will. Point being, there's no wrong way to go about the hobby. And that is what makes it great!Scott
If the layout doesn't look realistic or operate realistic, I'm not interested. And a loop of track is fine for operation. Afterall, modeling the trains rolling along over the bare countryside and in between towns or division points is a form of realistic operation too.
So I guess I'm in both camps.
And when I say that it needs to look realistic, I'm not talking about tons of small details like trash, telephone wires, etc. and a lot of other knick knacks that I tend to find distracting more than realistic.
- Douglas
I like it all pretty evenly, but probably enjoy the electronics part the most. If we were still in the DC-only era, I would definitely be doing something else.
What I don't like is building benchwork or having to go into hardware stores, and ESPECIALLY the big box ones.
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
"Sheldon,I suppose I should have been more specific WRT house painting. My house is an 2-story 1890 Victorian home. Each year, one side on one story (clapboards on 1st floor, shingles on 2nd) is painted. So it's more like 8 years between coats. And then there's the wraparound porch that I painted last year with a ton of gingerbread on it, which means that it'll be more like 9 years this time.
Paul A. Cutler III"
Paul, well that makes a lot more sense. You know that is what I do for living - restore old houses.
Here is my own, restored in 1996/97:
The 1997 paint job held up for 15 years, we are in the repainting process now, a section at a time. Respectfully may I ask, why all white on a house like that? Sheldon
The 1997 paint job held up for 15 years, we are in the repainting process now, a section at a time.
Respectfully may I ask, why all white on a house like that?
Sheldon
Sheldon,I suppose I should have been more specific WRT house painting. My house is an 2-story 1890 Victorian home. Each year, one side on one story (clapboards on 1st floor, shingles on 2nd) is painted. So it's more like 8 years between coats. And then there's the wraparound porch that I painted last year with a ton of gingerbread on it, which means that it'll be more like 9 years this time.
I do this to relax and because I love the trains themselves moreso than creating the miniature world.
I'm better with scenery than buildings, and I prefer to railfan my own trains...which can be basically defined as running trains in circles through my roughly finished but not 100% finished scenes. (I'm still adding weeds and trees as I get around to it, but the kids and cat can be hard on scenery). I have essentially an 81-foot single track mainline, with one long siding. The layout is a folded dogbone, with part on a narrow shelf along the wall to simulate the look of a double track railroad.
John Mock
"Every year I paint one side of my all-white house."
Paul, if you are effectively painting your house every four years, you are using the wrong paint or doing something wrong.
One great thing about the species called man on this earth is that we are all different. If we were able to respect that others are different, then Earth would be a heavenly place to live.
Sheldon,Every year I paint one side of my all-white house. I can assure you it's pretty mindless work. You find mowing is relaxing? What do you think about when you're doing it? I've been mowing the same lawns for 25+ years, and there's just no challenge to it. I figure I'm mowing with maybe about 10-20% concentration on the job (making sure I don't run over something), and rest thinking of other things (work, health, family, friends, future, past, etc.). I don't find that relaxing at all.
I find that for me to relax, I have to concentrate fully on something that isn't actually critical. One thing I do is read books. There's no room for stressful thoughts when a book is playing a movie inside your head. Another method is to dive fully into a hobby project. I'll research, I'll write articles, I'll build/paint models, I will get involved in an Operation Session, etc. All these things demand full concentration and gets my mind off "Real Life"(tm), and thus relaxes me.
David,Okay, but I'm curious: what did you think about when you ran a train in circles for an hour or so, drinking your beverage, fresh home from work? I can tell you what I think when I've done something like that: That's a good speed; gee, that train looks good; there it goes (no derailments); there it goes again (no derailments); there it goes again (no derailments)...is our tax rate going up this year? When does my driver's license expire? Which side of the house needs painting?
I never found much relaxing just running a train because my thoughts quickly wander all over the place.
NittanyLion,Yeah, I just can't zone out like that. My zoning out usually happens in front of a computer monitor, but then I'm surfing the web, too. The only time I really do so is when I'm going to sleep.
jecorbett,Oh, I agree that operations is more than just switching. Running a schedule with only staged trains can be just as challenging as any switchlist. But I need some kind of challenge, something to concentrate on, in order to forget my troubles and relax.
Back on the subject, let me put it this way: a friend of mine and fellow club member is a real life railroad engineer with some 25 years of experience at the throttle. He likes to operate on our layout, with timetables, train orders, switchlists and the like. He's even been the dispatcher. When I asked him why someone in his profession would want to get so involved in model operations, he replied with, "The worst thing that can happen here is that someone's engine hits the floor. In my job, the worst that can happen is that people die. This is nothing compared to that."
mlehman Paul3 With all that being said, I can't stand roundy-round operations even on such a great big layout. I just can't. Paul, I agree, going in circles doesn't do much for me, although I can see why it works for some. Even though my goal here is less formal ops, I still think a train needs a purpose, work to do, places to go. There are lots of ways to do that, I kinda doubt that roundy-roundy even needs anyone's input other than the owners. One of my motivations is that crews here often range from 2 to 5. If I have more than that, things get crowded in the aisles. I can do a dispatcher, and have a passenger schedule on timetable, plus a standard gauge ops, but there's usually not enough business to make much of that happen. So even if I wanted to get more formal, use a dipatcher, etc, I'd have to dragoon people into it and don't want that. Instead, I hand them a switchlist and a train card and away they go. In fact, if anything, right now I'd like to get a bit more formal and at least take a stab at the passemger schedule with a couple of train just to keep everyone else on thei toes.
Paul3 With all that being said, I can't stand roundy-round operations even on such a great big layout. I just can't.
Paul,
I agree, going in circles doesn't do much for me, although I can see why it works for some.
Even though my goal here is less formal ops, I still think a train needs a purpose, work to do, places to go. There are lots of ways to do that, I kinda doubt that roundy-roundy even needs anyone's input other than the owners.
One of my motivations is that crews here often range from 2 to 5. If I have more than that, things get crowded in the aisles. I can do a dispatcher, and have a passenger schedule on timetable, plus a standard gauge ops, but there's usually not enough business to make much of that happen. So even if I wanted to get more formal, use a dipatcher, etc, I'd have to dragoon people into it and don't want that.
Instead, I hand them a switchlist and a train card and away they go.
In fact, if anything, right now I'd like to get a bit more formal and at least take a stab at the passemger schedule with a couple of train just to keep everyone else on thei toes.
One of the first model railroad books I bought was Railroads You Can Model and one of them was the Tehacapi Loop on the SP with the ATSF as a tenant. Naturally the loop was the primary feature and there were staging yards on either end. Operations consisted of trains leaving the staging yard traveling to and around the loop and then exiting to the other staging yard. The loop is single track but has a passing siding and there might have been others as well. There is more to operations than switching and in this case, I don't believe there was any switching. It was all about getting trains going in opposite directions on a single track line to and around the loop. That kind of operations would appeal to the guy who mainly likes to see his trains moving through interesting scenery. The railroad is serving a purpose even if there isn't any switching involved.
I don't belong to any clubs, as I care not to travel, although I do travel to shows. I don't hold operating sessions, except by myself, as that's the way I intended it to be, as my railroad is small. I model for me, run my trains around my short dogbone loop, (about 50') as I want to, and if I feel in the operations mode, I can park the train out of sight, and have plenty of trackage and room to switch the industries and transloading area, set out cars, etc., as I see fit. I will even leave the main line train run it's course while I work on a modeling project, or do operations. I do like visitors, and occassionaly a neighbor might stop in, have a refreshment appropiate for the time of day, and visit, as I'm the only one within a radius of about 14 homes, that has a layout.
That's what it's all about for me, along with joining in the many forums, such as this one, and showing my work in pictures, and conversation.
I don't need any rules to run my trains, as it's about the modeling and creating. I know that many of you fellow forum members thrive by, and are deeply involved in clubs and proper prototypical operations, as I read in the many post about the clubs and operations, and thats great! Have at it! We all have one thing in common, and that's the love of trains, models and prototype, and building in miniature to achieve that perfect look.
Mike.
EDIT: I guess I strayed a little from the OP, I share Rob Spangler's thoughts in his post, back on page 1.
My You Tube
Paul3With all that being said, I can't stand roundy-round operations even on such a great big layout. I just can't.
Paul3 I've heard tales of other model railroaders that come home from work, put a train on their looped layout, and just open the throttle and watch it go...for hours. What do they think about while this is happening? When I do something like that and it requires no thought to accomplish (painting the house, mowing the lawn, weeding the garden), all I think about is whatever is stressing me out in "Real Life"(tm).
I've heard tales of other model railroaders that come home from work, put a train on their looped layout, and just open the throttle and watch it go...for hours. What do they think about while this is happening? When I do something like that and it requires no thought to accomplish (painting the house, mowing the lawn, weeding the garden), all I think about is whatever is stressing me out in "Real Life"(tm).
Its the hum and the motion and all that. It helps one zone out, if that's how your head works. I used to have an apartment on the tenth floor that looked down at a busy CSX main and had a clear view of the taxiways and runways at DCA. Sometimes I'd come home from work, eat dinner, and lean back in a chair by a window. Put on some Miles Davis or Thelonius Monk and watch the airliners climbing out or their landing lights dancing while they zigzagged down the river. Maybe see some helicopters or Marine One going down the Potomac. If a train came by, that would take my attention. But it was a whole lot of stuff I didn't have to worry about and could just watch. Sort of like an aquarium.
Paul3 I'm the Operations Chairman of a very large club layout (halfway into a 6300 sq. ft. layout space and 70 members). Our current mainline takes a good 15 minutes to traverse the entire thing at 60 scale mph, and we have 40" min. curves and #8 mainline switches, with some great scenery in places. It's a first class layout to run trains on. With all that being said, I can't stand roundy-round operations even on such a great big layout. I just can't. I can do maybe a loop or two by myself just to test the equipment, perhaps a few more loops with other members running the opposite way to make it interesting. But just putting a train on the track and watching it go 'round? It's like watching paint dry to me. I've heard tales of other model railroaders that come home from work, put a train on their looped layout, and just open the throttle and watch it go...for hours. What do they think about while this is happening? When I do something like that and it requires no thought to accomplish (painting the house, mowing the lawn, weeding the garden), all I think about is whatever is stressing me out in "Real Life"(tm). I need a hobby that challenges me to think, and watching trains run by themselves isn't much of a challenge. When I step through the front door of the club, "Real Life"(tm) ceases to matter because I have so much to do in HO scale. Paul A. Cutler III
I'm the Operations Chairman of a very large club layout (halfway into a 6300 sq. ft. layout space and 70 members). Our current mainline takes a good 15 minutes to traverse the entire thing at 60 scale mph, and we have 40" min. curves and #8 mainline switches, with some great scenery in places. It's a first class layout to run trains on.
With all that being said, I can't stand roundy-round operations even on such a great big layout. I just can't. I can do maybe a loop or two by myself just to test the equipment, perhaps a few more loops with other members running the opposite way to make it interesting. But just putting a train on the track and watching it go 'round? It's like watching paint dry to me.
I've heard tales of other model railroaders that come home from work, put a train on their looped layout, and just open the throttle and watch it go...for hours. What do they think about while this is happening? When I do something like that and it requires no thought to accomplish (painting the house, mowing the lawn, weeding the garden), all I think about is whatever is stressing me out in "Real Life"(tm). I need a hobby that challenges me to think, and watching trains run by themselves isn't much of a challenge. When I step through the front door of the club, "Real Life"(tm) ceases to matter because I have so much to do in HO scale.
I like running trains and watching a big boy or a trio of modern diesels pulling freight just does it for me.
Now that I am retired I enjoy my trains. I don't belong to a club, too many rules and they don't like just running trains and talking.
When I was working I came home ran some trains for a hour or so and drinking my favorite beverage let the stress of the day just melt away. Going in circles is good.
No operations for me, ever.
Painting my house is not mindless work - it has a four color, turn of the nineteenth century color scheme. Mowing the lawn - you may find it mindless, I find it relaxing. Weeding the garden - I do with a checkbook.
Point? Different strokes for different folks.
Real life stress - I don't have much. I'm busy, but I learned how to live a low stress life years ago - happiness and peace are in your head - all you need do is find it.
Actually I like both, operation and display running - my layout is carefully designed for both.
But just like the fact that an Athearn blue box freight car with a little weathering is fine to me, so is a simplified version of operation.
The layout is designed to keep a crew of 12 real busy for three hours - or for one person to entertain non railroad guests with 5-6 trains going with no operators.
There is no question that large club layouts are best for full blown operation, partly because of the more "real time" distances and such. But not everyone is into that.
Real life stress - what little I do have is generally reduced by limiting the number of people I have to deal with. So going to your club for an operating session may not be my best stress reliever - spending time in my layout room alone or with one or two others is likely more relaxing for me.
I'm not in this hobby to make friends or be in a crowd of people - I'm in it to build models.
And even with true operation in mind, I would never build a true point to point layout without a continious run connection. Thru staging or loop to loop staging provides a better ratio of mainline time to terminal time.
Sheldon,
Those are great ideas and examples of how to apply this principle to a more "standard" gauge, mainline scenario that is more mainstream than narrowgauge.
It also points out how wide and deep this gray area of ops is. Depending on how a person implements it, it could be anywhere from slighly more organized than "just run!" to a fully signaled mainline that seems indistinguishable in look to the more formal concept that ops has become, but which has most of the gotchas filtered out by eliminating much of the more arcane nature of such ops in favor of simplified, unambiguous signal aspects, etc.
Another way of putting this is that there is no single "right" way to do ops. Rather, there's a variety of different ways, depending on one's taste for complexity.
I'm sure someone will say, but there is, the prototype way...well, yeah, but they're not paying me enough for that
Although I'm sure some are willing to gladly pay for that sort of thing, witness the popularity of rail museums' use of "engineer-fo-a-day, more than a cab ride" programs. But many folks nowadays want something more like a 3D game, in some cases, or like having your buddies over to run the Lionel and you're shouting (in your inside voice) to the next fellow about a meet you want to set up. I think there's a place for everybody at this table, although I neither want to dilute the way ops has become more prototypical or to suggest that those just rolling the wheels need do anything else to enjoy the hobby.
Having been involved in operating sessions on a number of different layouts with a number of different operating schemes, yes, some go very far into all the prototype "actions", and it can be too much stress.
I like operations, but I do like simple, low stress operating schemes/systems.
My own layout uses CTC for the mainline - BUT - it is a simplified CTC system, and a simplified signal system making it easier, faster (because our distances are shorter and our clocks are sped up) and thereby way less stressful.
In place of the multi step process of levers and switches on a true CTC panel, mine is simple lighted pushbuttons. The dispatcher sets the routes thru the interlocking, generally with only one button, and than one more button gives the next train aurthority into the next two siganal blocks - yes the next two signal blocks.
Each power block not part of an interlocking is divided into two signal blocks. Each interlocking is actually a buffer block in terms of power - it is only powered when both sides of the interlocking are assigned to the same throttle.
Interlocking signals are absolute, just like the prototype, but are never used for "yellow" indications (actually some show yellow in place of green for restricted speed diverging routes).
Anyway, this simple system makes it easy for operators to understand and remember what to do. If they mess up - we have automatic train control - their train just stops until the dispatcher fixes things.
Off the mainline operators have simple switch lists and a whole section of layout to themselves for their "work". Very relaxed pace.......
Other low stress feature - interlockings work like the real thing - a dispatcher or tower operator cannot throw a switch while a train is in the interlocking - it simply will not throw.
Operators get paperwork, but they don't "do" any paperwork - it is just their instructions.
So that's my take on low stress operating fun.........
I think you bring up an important point about where operations has taken us. And I say this as someone who likes to operate and appreciates what the more, ahem, intense operators are trying to achieve. They do it so well that it can often simulate all the pressures of real world ops, except getting paid or suffering physical injury/death. Lots of stress is implicit, part of what people have come to expect of ops.
I will say that I take part in some of this, but mostly on someone else's RR.
Brent wrote:
"...stress just doesn't scale down."
I suspect what Brent wrote is actually another way of saying that operations actually DOES scale down, all too well, in fact, for his enjoyment. Not that Brent is saying there's anything bad about how others do operations, just not his cup of tea.
And you noted this fact of modern life...
brochhauI'm in the airline industry and deal with paperwork, dispatchers and clearances at work. I have zero desire to do so on my layout. I do attend some operating sessions, but it is more for the social aspect than the operating part.
In other words, running some trains with the emphasis on keeping things light in terms of rules, and paperwork. Not saying it should replace or even challenge at all the way ops have evolved in the 5 decades of experience reading about it in MR and elsewhere. That's good stuff, especially if a little stress gets you excited and happy. Sometimes it does for me.
Mostly, I've been trying to develop a more informal approach to ops. You get a train, a destination, and something enjoyable to do along the way. Half the battle is trying to get people to unpack the things that ops has become to get down to the minimal necessary structure to do that. This has been helped by my narrow aisles, extensive run, and usually small crews. Being narrowgauge does help in thinking outside the box that is needed to set the stressful part of ops aside, bit I don't think the concept is really at all restricted to it, because any form of ops can be approached this way if you choose. There often isn't another train out there when there are just a couple of wayfreights and a yard job. If there is, I want it to be an encounter that is anticipated for the fun factor it adds, rather than the enjoyable stress that is more the point of what ops typically is.
I won't say I've found any holy grail of ops fun yet. It's plain ol' fun is what I'm after, with just enough structure to make your run interesting. Still aiming for that, but in a way that stress isn't an issue and a clock mostly just means when the fun starts and when it's over.
I agree with Brent above. I'm in the airline industry and deal with paperwork, dispatchers and clearances at work. I have zero desire to do so on my layout. I do attend some operating sessions, but it is more for the social aspect than the operating part.
That's not to say I don't appreciate some of the operating schemes modelers create. It's just not my cup of tea. I enjoy running interesting trains through nicely detailed scenes. I've just begun rebuilding, rubber gauging between On30 to HO steam era with my eight-year-old son. He does enjoy switching cars around so there will be a little operating potential, but I have no intent on designing an operating scheme nor holding any sessions.
But what a great hobby that we can all fulfill our own desires!
Scott
Eh? Say What?
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I tend to place an emphasis on scenery to create a miniature world. However, my latest, and probably my last layout, is a point to point with some operational potential.
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
I second the comments from jecorbett, you did an excellent job with that one foot area. It looks wonderful and very realistic.
Wayne
CSX_road_slug Sam Posey's book Playing With Trains: A Passion Beyond Scale dwells on this topic. He contrasts so-called 'operators' like Tony Koester (p. 142) with the more fanciful 'scenery makers' such as Malcolm Furlow (p. 150). Made it seem like two sides at war with each other - possibly an exaggeration?
Sam Posey's book Playing With Trains: A Passion Beyond Scale dwells on this topic. He contrasts so-called 'operators' like Tony Koester (p. 142) with the more fanciful 'scenery makers' such as Malcolm Furlow (p. 150). Made it seem like two sides at war with each other - possibly an exaggeration?
I don't see it as a war so much as a matter of choice. I think few of us are trying to say our way is the only way or even the best way. And it's not all or nothing. It's just matter of where the emphasis is going to be. What part of the hobby is getting the lion's share of your time and money. If operations or even just running trains is the priority, then minimal scenery as Tony Koester described in his recent column will suffice. However if creating a miniature world is the priority, then the emphasis is going to be on the setting for the railroad. Certainly one can combine good operations with outstanding scenery but I think most of us will emphasize one over the other. Operations were certainly a big part of the G&D but what made it a memorable layout was the magnificent scenery. I think if operations were his primary objective, John Allen would have completed the mainline first and then added the scenery. As it was, the layout was almost completely scenicked but he never completed the mainline and operated it as he had envisioned when he started the project. He had one major bridge that needed to be built to complete the mainline but he never was able to do that before he passed away. I don't think anyone would suggest that made the G&D less magnificent.
On the other side of the coin was the V&O. Most certainly the emphasis was on the operations but it still had very good scenery. However Allen McClelland was an advocate of the "good enough" approach to scenery and structures. It was mainly about the railroading, not the setting.
I’m building a miniature world which includes trains and operation but my layout also includes lots of non railroad structures and scenes. Once upon a time a decided that all the models I build shall be HO scale so they can all be displayed together instead of having different scale models scattered all over the house.
j............