FORUM CLINIC: Designing for satisfying operations

[jfugate]

I thought it might be fun to start a thread that is sort of a "clinic" on designing for operations. I've been in this hobby almost 40 years and have designed and built 6 layouts of my own, been the editor of the Layout Design Special Interest Group's publications for 4 years, and anayzed countless track plans.

So how do you design your layout so it will be fun to operate, and that it remains satisfying longer?

Understanding car capacity and how it affects operation is one key.

If you look at your design and compute the number of cars you can store in the yards and spurs, you can learn some interesting things. In HO, I use 40 foot car lengths, which is about 6 inches, so it's easy to compute by using a scale rule and the track plan drawn to scale.

Make sure and allow for clearances near switches, so only work in whole car lengths.

If you determine that the yard and spurs on your track plan have a total capacity of 200 cars, then 80% of that number (160 cars) is how many cars the layout can hold and be *jam packed* full. If you go more than that, you will have no room to maneuver, and after all , this is a hobby where we *run trains*.

Actually, even 80% full is pretty jammed, and you will find it difficult to move things more often than not. I find that 60% full (120 cars in the example) is more like it. I would describe 60% full as "full but fluid" as far as operations is concerned.

Next topic point: Staging.

[JerryZeman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate


If you determine that the yard and spurs on your track plan have a total capacity of 200 cars, then 80% of that number (160 cars) is how many cars the layout can hold and be *jam packed* full. If you go more than that, you will have no room to maneuver, and after all , this is a hobby where we *run trains*.

Actually, even 80% full is pretty jammed, and you will find it difficult to move things more often than not. I find that 60% full (120 cars in the example) is more like it. I would describe 60% full as "full but fluid" as far as operations is concerned.

Next topic point: Staging.

Interesting topic! I wi***hat I had access to this simple formula when I started designing my railroad 18 years ago (where the heck has the time went).

I've only held one semi-formal session on my railroad to date, and already I can see that my division point yard is going to be a bottleneck. But, that is going to make things "fun", as now I may have to rethink how my trains are blocked. With the addition of another yard off of my new 8 track reverse loop staging yard, I may change the way the trains come "on property". Presently, I run through trains from the GN at Hillyard and NP at Parkwater past South Spokane Yard on my Spokane Southern, and run to McDaniel Yard in Worley Idaho. Once my South Spokane yard is complete, I may start running transfers from Hillyard and Parkwater, and classifying trains that go through Worley, and those that terminate at Worley. Capacity issues are real world problems that railroads have to deal with every day. Kinda adds a new element to running the "model" railroad.

As far as staging, my initial design criteria worked off of the formula

S = D x 2

where S = Number of tracks required and D = Number of tracks installed.......

Hence the need for the new 8 track staging yard, which allows my railroad to run as a true point to point.

regards,
Jerry Zeman

[Anonymous]

At PSX 2004, there was a clinic on planning the car loading for smoother operations. I don;t have the info with me but could provide it if needed. Basic premise was to keep the yards fluid by only loading them to about 50% capacity. Use the same 50% for industry sidings and also group them into areas for different locals to switch. That also helps determine the length of the local trains. For example, a group of industries with 12 car spots should average 6 full and 6 empty so the local train would, on the average, consist of 6 cars to be spotted and the 6 there would be pulled. That leaves room for manuvering. Staging tracks can be up to 100% loaded at the start and end of an operating session as long as there are no trains 'en route' at the start of the next session.

[wpsteve]

When designing the Western Pacific I tried to use the 75% number and it appears to be working just fine EXCEPT.... I keep finding new cars to purchase !
I just added a new yard and converted another over to a small industrial area so I have a new lease on life for awhile[:)]
The two bad things ( there are more ) I think you can create, is not enough spaces for all the cars and not enough room for the operators.

I think if you end up with a problem with too many cars, not enough slots so to speak, the answer would be create an off railroad shipping site where you would store the cars until the shipping program asked for them back. I use a computer generated program so it is not difficult to program a holding period for the excess cars.

May not be the best way, but I think it would work fine

[jfugate]

Next point: Staging

Staging yards are the one exception to this 60%-80% capacity rule. You can jam staging tracks completely full of cars and then use them to feed trains onto the railroad.

However ...

Assuming a typical model railroad configuration with staging yards at both ends, when you jam-pack staging, you need to allow for one empty staging yard track somwhere. This will enable you to send a train from one staging yard, over the railroad, and into that empty track. The train that moved will leave one empty staging track behind, making room for yet another train to move, etc.

This principle of staging yards is why a single double-ended staging yard connecting both ends of the layout works so well . Any time a train leaves staging, it *automatically* makes room for another train in staging.

Next topic: Passing sidings.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Joe, I really like the idea of having online clinics. Maybe instead of starting a new one every time, you could just edit the title of this one. This would keep everything together in one place, and alow it to stay near the front page like the Coffee Shop does. I'm not sure if that is what you had in mind, but I think it would work well.

My railroad is at the perfect stage for this topic. Even though I have a plan drawn, I use it only as a guide. Details are subject to change if better ideas come along. I have my benchwork nearly built, and my mainline design is pretty much set, but yards, towns and industries are still very much in play.

For towns and industries, I like to think of them as little switching puzzles connected by the mainline or a branch line.

I have noticed, at a number of operating sessions I've attended, the host ends up running around answering questions, etc., and gets very little chance to operate his own railroad, especially if the crew is large. I like the idea of being able to operate with any sized crew.

[jfugate]

Big Boy:

I know your observation about the layout owner is true, since I've operated on many layouts and your observation is all-too-common.

I think it pays to work the kinks out of your railroad with regular operating sessions and to develop an experienced crew who can deal with common issues without needing to always call in the owner.

On my HO Siskiyou Line, we have reached this point. Last op session in November, I ran the Roseburg yard and had a ball. In a prior session, I was the dispatcher, and before that I ran one of the favorite trains on the layout, the Coos Bay Hauler.

Sometimes, I just enjoy being a "super duper" railfan and moving around to see how everyone is doing and railfanning various spots on the layout. But then I'm doing that because I want to, not because the railroad needs "babysitting".

[jwar]

Hi Joe..Im in line with Big-Boy-4005, you forum clinic is on target. Being Im new to the operation side of modeling I will just stop, look and listen on a dailey basis.

WP Steve, pics will be in the mail on the 9th.

You guys have a good day, looking forward to more info.....John.

[jfugate]

Oh yes, and one other point on operating so the owner is free ... we do two person crews on the Siskiyou Line. One person runs the loco (is the engineer), the other is the conductor and talks with the dispatcher. When he's not talking with the dispatcher, the conductor stays near the rear of the train and keeps an eye on it. And I enjoy working together with someone else, conversing, etc. It's more fun than going solo.

And I really like the conductor job, because I *have* to railfan the train. [:D]

The two person crew works great when you have a visitor. You just pair the new guy up with an experienced hand and if there are issues, the experienced guy handles it. Rarely is there a need for the owner to get involved.

[PennsyHoosier]

This is a GREAT idea. Taking a cue from Elliot, might I suggest that you restart it clean with the simple title "Forum Clinic." That way you won't have all the amen posts (like this one).

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

Oh yes, and one other point on operating so the owner is free ... we do two person crews on the Siskiyou Line. One person runs the loco (is the engineer), the other is the conductor and talks with the dispatcher. When he's not talking with the dispatcher, the conductor stays near the rear of the train and keeps an eye on it. And I enjoy working together with someone else, conversing, etc. It's more fun than going solo.

And I really like the conductor job, because I *have* to railfan the train. [:D]

The two person crew works great when you have a visitor. You just pair the new guy up with an experienced hand and if there are issues, the experienced guy handles it. Rarely is there a need for the owner to get involved.

OK, Joe, what do you from a design standpoint when you have a reasonable amount of room for a layout (> 350 sq. ft), but the basement is in a rural location where the nearest model railroader you know is 40 miles away, the likelihood of being able to gather a multi-person oerating crew on a regular basis is questionable and you would rather model a main line operation than a branch or short line?

The above is the situation I'm facing. So far, the solution I've come up with on a conceptual basis is to give up on much in the way of mainline running and concentrate on a single town which will provide a lot of local action (for instance Salinas, CA, during the lettuce season in the early 50's) while at the same time providing a variety of through traffic that "struts and frets its hour upon the stage and is heard no more". Since there is an ebb and flow to prototype traffic, the layout would be run in real time choreographed around those times of relatively intense action. No attempt would be made to run a full 24 hours worth of trains. Whether or not this would provide sufficient action for a multi-person crew or not, I don't know as yet. I think it would, but until it's built (or at least under construction), they ain't going to come. [sigh] In any case, I think it would be a relatively small crew (3 or 4 at most in any given session).

Andre

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

Oh yes, and one other point on operating so the owner is free ... we do two person crews on the Siskiyou Line. One person runs the loco (is the engineer), the other is the conductor and talks with the dispatcher. When he's not talking with the dispatcher, the conductor stays near the rear of the train and keeps an eye on it. And I enjoy working together with someone else, conversing, etc. It's more fun than going solo.

And I really like the conductor job, because I *have* to railfan the train. [:D]

The two person crew works great when you have a visitor. You just pair the new guy up with an experienced hand and if there are issues, the experienced guy handles it. Rarely is there a need for the owner to get involved.

OK, Joe, what do you from a design standpoint when you have a reasonable amount of room for a layout (> 350 sq. ft), but the basement is in a rural location where the nearest model railroader you know is 40 miles away, the likelihood of being able to gather a multi-person oerating crew on a regular basis is questionable and you would rather model a main line operation than a branch or short line?

The above is the situation I'm facing. So far, the solution I've come up with on a conceptual basis is to give up on much in the way of mainline running and concentrate on a single town which will provide a lot of local action (for instance Salinas, CA, during the lettuce season in the early 50's) while at the same time providing a variety of through traffic that "struts and frets its hour upon the stage and is heard no more". Since there is an ebb and flow to prototype traffic, the layout would be run in real time choreographed around those times of relatively intense action. No attempt would be made to run a full 24 hours worth of trains. Whether or not this would provide sufficient action for a multi-person crew or not, I don't know as yet. I think it would, but until it's built (or at least under construction), they ain't going to come. [sigh] In any case, I think it would be a relatively small crew (3 or 4 at most in any given session).

Andre

Andre, 40 miles isn't the end of the world. Remember "If you build it, they will come."[swg]

I live on the edge of the metro area, but I am getting offers for construction help from people over 100 miles away. One person is 250 miles away!!! That's just to help build it. Have a good plan, and make it a reality, and THEY WILL COME.[8D]

[andrechapelon]

Big Boy_4005 sez:

Andre, 40 miles isn't the end of the world. Remember "If you build it, they will come."

I live on the edge of the metro area, but I am getting offers for construction help from people over 100 miles away. One person is 250 miles away!!! That's just to help build it. Have a good plan, and make it a reality, and THEY WILL COME.

Perhaps you're right. OTOH, we're talking about Maine which ain't exactly a hotbed of the hobby. The nearest hobby shop with any kind of model RR inventory is more than an hour's drive away. The nearest hobby shop with a DECENT model RR inventory is nearly 2 hours away.

Even so, you may still be right. Still, I think I'll err on the conservative side and make sure that the thing can be operated solo if necessary. That's not necessarily a bad thing since it means I will be worshipping at the shrine of Our Lady of K.I.S.S.

Andre

[dehusman]

Remember that railroads don't run the same number of trains every day and it can vary between times of the year. Don't just limit yourself to one town. if you want build the whole branch. When you operate it yourself , run a "Sunday" schedule or an off season schedule. A daily mixed train and a local freight. Then when you get a full crew on (I have been on excursions where carloads of people drive hundreds of miles to operate) then you can do lettuce harvest with reefer trains galore weaving in between the mixed and the local.

Dave H.

[jfugate]

Agreed on the "design it well and they will come ..." comments.

Most of the people who operate my Siskiyou Line drive 30-50 miles to come to an op session. I have semi-regular operators who drive up to 250 miles to come to a session.

[Pruitt]

Regarding staging -

On my layout, the question came up as to whether to keep an already-designed (but not yet built) 3-track staging loop for a branchline (the Lander branch), or to model the branch-end town of Lander, making the branchline more than just a turnback staging yard.

As a staging yard, the Lander branch would simply be a prop for running one or two trains onto and off of the layout's mainline. With Lander modeled, the branchline becomes an active part of the layout. Still, that's really just semantics - either way, the branchline provides for one or two trains onto and off of the mainline. What adding the town really does is provide one more switching and train assembly/disassembly point on the layout.

The major element in my decision to go ahead and add the branch-end town as a modeled portion of the layout was that I wanted to model the town.

Once the layout progresses to the point of holding regular operating sessions, I can treat the Lander branch as either pure staging or as a modeled part of the layout. If I don't have enough operators for Lander to be functional, I can stage an already-made-up train or two on the tracks there prior to the operating session. When the schedule calls for a Lander train on the layout, it comes out of Lander as if it were just a staging yard. Similarly, trains arriving in Lander would just park on an empty track and be broken up later, in between operating sessions.

So this way I can have it both ways - Lander can act as either a town on the layout, or as a stub-end staging yard.

[Anonymous]

It's too bad info such as this isn't "required reading" for newcomers to the hobby. From what I've seen, most modelers find space in their home, build as big a table that they can fit into the space and then lay track almost everywhere.

There is very little thought given to how their model railroad could actually operate. Many people (like myself) don't have a great interest in operations, but a model railroad should have a purpose, a reason for being rather than being just a place to park rolling stock. Or watch the trains go around and around in endless circles. Some do just this because they don't know any better.

I consider myself a person who makes models of railroad equipment, structures, etc. I don't really have an interest in making a model of a railroad. My HO scale modules are to me operating dioramas that I connect with others in our local club. So operations don't really interest me. I do help a friend operate his basment filling layout regularly, but its not the operations that draw me there, its the interaction with fellow modelers.

To each his own!

Bob Boudreau

[Jetrock]

I have found like operations are like cigarettes--many people don't like them and don't think very well of those that use them. Then they try them, maybe a friend offered them a spot at an op session, or they were visiting a club and just did it to fit in, and either are disgusted by the experience or find that they kind of like the feel.

They'll start operating socially, just occasionally at first and then more often as they get into the habit. Before too long, they're operating in their own home, spending more money on it and doing it more frequently, until a day on the layout without operation can cause the jitters!

[wpsteve]

As to the owner operator, On the Western Pacific I found like others that I was running from this problem/question to the next. I admit that I was micro managing.
You build this empire and when folks come over you want it to be a fun experiance.
Then one day I figured out that most of what I was doing they could do themselfs.
I set up a wheel cleaning/repair area and told them that if they needed to put a spring in a car, do it !

I'm playing trains ! Surprise, surprise, when you quit baby sitting them, they figure it out.

This is not to imply that there are lots of problems, there are not. I make sure things are fixed and clean but if you have an operating railroad you know things happen.
I use a computer generated waybill system, I put the waybills out at the yards, sometimes one sticks to the next. I would get a call for the super to show me this had happened....... Then I would take the waybill over to the correct yard...Now they just handle it.. As long as I did it, i guess I would still be doing it.

Another thing I did was always give the crew the best jobs, I would take the unit trains, not any more !
I'm playing trains tooooo

There are nights when a session goes like a well tuned watch, then there are those full moon nights !!! In watching I found they feed on each other ! If I have one of those dreaded nights when the electrical demons show up, it appears that the toilet desides to plug up !

Still love it, we have groups come in from all over and that makes the railroad come alive... but on those days I don't play trains[:D]

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FundyNorthern

There is very little thought given to how their model railroad could actually operate. Many people (like myself) don't have a great interest in operations, but a model railroad should have a purpose, a reason for being rather than being just a place to park rolling stock. Or watch the trains go around and around in endless circles. Some do just this because they don't know any better.

Interesting comments, Bob.

For some folks, the entire purpose of a model railroad is just to watch the trains go around in endless circles. I have a friend who falls in that category.

For me, the purpose of my model railroad is to create a realistic (at least cursorily) representation of the railroad that traveled through those parts of my home state where I grew up, in an era 20 years before I was born. The ultimate goal is to be able to operate the railroad in a semi-prototypical manner.

Probably every model railroad was at least started with some purpose in mind, be it just to run trains in circles, satisfy an itch to build something, provide a realistic setting for displaying models, recreate a past we never really saw (that's me), or what have you.

Perhaps when my layout reaches the stage where we can start some basic operations, my "endless circles" friend (who is helping me build my monstrosity) will become an operations-oriented modeler. Then again, he may not think it's any fun at all. Or he may like both - operating on my layout and chasing cabooses on his.

I kind of hope for the last option - while I'll enjoy operating a schedule of trains in my own version of Wyoming in the 1930s to 1940s, I doubt I'll ever stop enjoying watching his trains run in endless circles, either.

[jfugate]

Next point: Passing Sidings

Passing sidings are the points where opposing trains meet on a single track line. If you have double track, then most of this does not apply.

The key is to realize that with opposing trains meeting, the siding only needs to be as long as the *shorter* of the two opposing trains. The other train can be as long as you like and the two trains can still pass.

You need to determine your average and your maximum train length while you are designing. Again, I like to use 40 foot cars in HO since the 6 inch length makes the math easy.

A 20 car HO train would be 10 feet long if it was all 40 foot cars. Consider that at least one of the cars on the front needs to be the loco, and at least one of the cars on the end is the caboose (depending on your era), leaving you 18 cars to generate revenue for the railroad.

Not every passing siding needs to be 10 feet long unless you expect to have meets at every town. You can shorten a few of the sidings in certain towns and that will mean the dispatcher will have to plan things more when two full sized opposing trains encounter each other. If one of the opposing trains is shorter, but will fit in the shorter siding, you can use the shorter siding to do a meet in that town.

Given that trying to fit everything in can be a challenge, the fact you can shorten some passing sidings (and in effect create more single track main between towns) can be a big help when designing your track plan.

Next topic: Relationship between staging and passing sidings

[jrbernier]

There has been a lot of talk about 'layout capacity'. My layout has 4 staging tracks(really not enough), but this will hold 4, 10 car trains. The industries generate enough traffic to require those road frt's to drop about 1/2 of their load and pick up an equal amount at the Sinsinawa Yard. The rest of the traffic in those trains are 'thru' traffic that was billed off of the layout and will go to a consignee off off the layout. I have an additional staging track for another railroad that delivers to the above mentioned yard. I do not really count 'yard' tracks in Sinsinawa as 'layout capacity' - they are a 'work area' where classification is done. There are 4 yard track and they usually are less that 1/2 full. To increase traffic generated from the industries, I am building several slide-out shelf's under the staging area to store cars that are 'off-line'. This will keep some cars from being 're-used' so often, and I can rotate in other 'correct' cars. Cars that do not fit my era(late 50's) or are things like NMRA/Division get put on the wall mounted display shelf's. I do NOT use the yard for storing my collection of stuff I just had to buy....
As far as operators, I can run the layout with 1 person if I sequence the jobs so traffic makes it's connections, or have up to 4 folks(local/yard/thru/dispatcher). I usually operate it myself, but have had up to 6 folks running(some doubled up).

Jim Bernier

[wpsteve]

Sidings............

One thing I see a lot in my travels is that the siding is a needed part of working an
industrial area. To work the industries you need to tie up the siding! Now if this is a main passing siding the railroad can lock up real quick.
And if you have this situation, it puts the crew under a lot of stress to get their work completed and clear the siding. Try to include a house track to get the working train off the siding unless you have enough sidings to keep traffic moving.
Keeping in mind that some restrictions to traffic flow are interesting, just so you are aware of the problem.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005
For towns and industries, I like to think of them as little switching puzzles connected by the mainline or a branch line.

For satisfying operations one must be careful not to make the switching puzzles too difficult all the time. I now try to make each switching area with only one tricky operation. That way every train crew doesn't hit the complex/or tedious problem every time.

And I guess that would be my second comment. Make switching puzzels interesting not tedious. An example is a "larger" industry (six cars) served by a switch back that will only fit the locomotive and one car. That could cause up to 21 moves through the switchback. Not interesting just boring.

[jfugate]

Agreed ... the switching puzzle concept for towns can become a problem for a serious operating layout.

I have found I am more interested in finding out what it was like to switch the prototype location by trying to follow the real railroad track arrangement at least somewhat. You can't always do that, but I at least try to follow the spirit of the prototype track arrangement.

I have found the prototype operating practices usually introduce more than enough "problems" to keep things interesting, but not so much complexity that operations are simply exasperating or tedious.

For example, I discovered on the prototype Siskiyou Line that I model, they required trains over the mountain grades to have two water cars behind the locos dousing the roadbed during the summer months (Apr - Oct actually).

This one discovery from the prototype has added immensely to the operating interest of my HO Siskiyou Line.

Now the dispatcher has to keep track of the water cars and make sure he doesn't end up with all the water cars on the wrong side of the hill for the next train coming through.

And now all trains going over the hill need water cars, regardless of if they need helpers. The water cars need switched in at the bottom of the hill, then need switched out at the bottom on the other side, all adding interest to the operations and making the run over the railroad last longer.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

Agreed on the "design it well and they will come ..." comments.

Most of the people who operate my Siskiyou Line drive 30-50 miles to come to an op session. I have semi-regular operators who drive up to 250 miles to come to a session.

Joe, I'd drive 500 miles to operate on your layout, although that's just a tad too far to be a regular [bow][bow][bow]. Now why do I hear Celine Dion singing "I Drove All Night"??????.

Once a year, the wife and I drive from California to Maine.

Six months later, we do the same in reverse.

If it weren't for the kids and grandkids, we'd stay in Maine.

Well, at least I would. That's where the basement is located. [:D]

Andre

[Big_Boy_4005]

OK guys, perhaps "puzzle" is a bit strong. It shouldn't take 80 moves to spot 6 cars, that would be extreme. On the other hand it shouldn't be a matter of simple drilling. A runaround with a mix of facing and trailing point moves will usually make the crew think. Trying to complete the task efficiently and in a timely manner should provide a mild challenge.

If you have a prototype to follow, by all means do. However most layouts don't have room to be 100% faithful in representing every track. So what features do you preserve when you need to compress?

[jfugate]

Compressing a prototype track arrangement ....

First, draw a schematic of the track arrangement, with all the tracks shown but eliminate any curves, twists, bends, etc to get down to the bare essentials of the track arrangement with everything drawn as straight lines.

Next, try to fit the schematic into your layout space, twisting and turning as needed to fit the location on your layout.

The first thing to do to compress it is to shorten the length of tracks. Next, look for multiple parallel tracks, and if there are four or five parallel tracks, try 3 or 2 parallel tracks ... this has the effect of *narrowing* the arrangement.

Next, if things are still a problem, look for spur tracks (those that switch off the main and then deadend) that you can eliminate. If that's not enough, then ...

Finally, look for elements you can combine. For example, when doing Roseburg yard on my Siskiyou Line, the actual yard was two double-ended lap yards of 5-6 tracks each. I compressed that down to a single double-ended yard of 5 tracks.

You keep iterating through these steps until you get the condensed track arrangement to fit.

For example, the ultimate condensation of Roseburg yard would be a main and a passing siding -- two tracks. Beyond that, you have eliminated the location on the layout!

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

Remember that railroads don't run the same number of trains every day and it can vary between times of the year. Don't just limit yourself to one town. if you want build the whole branch. When you operate it yourself , run a "Sunday" schedule or an off season schedule. A daily mixed train and a local freight. Then when you get a full crew on (I have been on excursions where carloads of people drive hundreds of miles to operate) then you can do lettuce harvest with reefer trains galore weaving in between the mixed and the local.

Dave H.

I know that traffic ebbs and flows. Let's say you have a layout based on (ferinstance), the Southern Pacific line up the San Francisco Peninsula in the 50's. For the sake of argument, let's say you only model the station at San Jose and everything else is staging. From about 6:30 or so until about 9:30, passenger traffic northbound will be intense while southbound traffic will be less. During the middle of the day, traffic will lull and will be pretty well balanced in both directions. From about 3:30 PM or so until about 6:30, southbound traffic (most terminating in San Jose) will pick up. Obviously, a Sunday schedule would be lighter (although you'd be able to run SP's Santa Cruz bound "Suntan Special" and its return, which was a Sunday only summer train).

For anything more intense than a branch line operation, I like the idea of modeling a single location for several reasons:

1. You can model a single location with a lot less "selective compression". I like passenger trains and it really grates on my nerves to see an 8 to 10 car train stop at a station whose platform length barely equals that of a single coach or maybe two at best.

2. You can have a great variety of traffic parading in front you without ever moving (ever stood on a platform in a European town and watch trains?).

3. I've been exposed to both British and Continental European modeling. The tendency is to pick a spot that provides the requisite traffic level and then call up trains from staging as needed. While both UK and Continental layouts emphasize passenger trains, the same general concept can be used for a freight oriented layout. IOW, the basic concept is translatable to an American environment.

4. A single location is more compatible with solo operation (if necessary) and if properly designed can also be run with with a multi-person crew without having people trip over each other. In any case, the crew requirements are smaller.

5. A single location is more compatible with the idea of "real time" operation. There's no intrinsic reason why an operating session has to encompass a 24 hour period. Try spending 3 hours at the Motel 6 across the street from the tracks at Mojave, CA, or the one at the west end of Cheyenne, WY. Then picture it as if it were a model railroad operating session. Incidentally, as a young kid I lived in Mojave during the last days of steam helper operation. Trust me, there's enough action to maintain interest in a single location in a time frame that encompasses less than half an eight hour shift.

I will grant you that single location modeling is probably not really compatible with certain aspects of the American scene. I doubt seriously if time table and train order operation would make much sense in that context since TT&TO operation is predicated on getting trains from one location to the next on the main line (which is presumably visible and equipped with multiple train order offices).

Single location modeling is obviously not for everybody, but I do think it has much to recommend it. Just don't tell Bill Darnaby or Tony Koester. They'd have heart failure.

Either that or they'd try to get me excommunicated for heresy.[(-D]

Andre

[jfugate]

Andre:

Interesting ... this gets back to a key question to answer for yourself in the hobby -- are you an engineer or a railfan?

If you are a railfan, then standing at one location and watching trains roll by is a delight for you. A railfan doesn't have a problem with so-called spagetti bowl layouts, since you can run more trains through a scene, and there's more to railfan!

The engineer, however, likes to stick with one train, and follow it along it's entire journey. For an engineer, the trend toward linear walkaround layout design is just what the doctor ordered.

Now none of us is 100% one or the other, we're all a mixture.

Me, I'm 80% engineer and about 20% railfan. While I would be interested for a while with the one-location layout design mentioned, I would start getting ancie after a while and want to do a single train from start to end and wish I could model more of the line.

If you figure out which of these is dominant in you, it will go a long way to getting a layout design that satisfies you more long-term.