Hello everyone,
I have a number of Atlas HO Center beam cars and I have nothing but headaches with them. I've added graphite to the wheels, checked the gauge, and made sure they're not tight so they move freely. Coupler height is correct. When they go thru Atlas #6 switches, they derail going thru. I don't have any issues with other cars on the layout.
Has anyone else had this problem? Suggestions? I have a dozen of these with and without loads. Driving me nuts!!
Thanks to everyone who replies..
Neal M.
I'm guessing some may suggest getting the reaming tool and use it on the truck journals where the needle axles are seated. It's a small took that you insert into the truck after taking the wheels out and you spin it - one side has a cutter which will ream out the axle and give it a clearn proper seat for the needle axles to spin.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
neal i think your problem is that the couplers are to small the center shafts my cars did the same thing i had to redo the couplers because the switches have a S in the track which causes the coupler to pull one car off the track
Neal,Try this.. Check your cars for warpage. I use a old mirror for such task and found one of my troublesome Walthers centerbeam was sightly warp.
I bent it back in shape by apply hand pressure.
As a second thought and I assume you may have already done so,check the coupler swing.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
When you checked the gauge, did you determine the wheels are spaced equally on the axles? They can still be in gauge but offset on the axle. That is to say shifted to the right or left compared to the other axle in that truck. That condition will cause crabbing and the flanges will pick at every rail joint, switch point and frog on the layout.
Try turning the car upside down and check to see if the trucks will rock a little. Side to side and front to back. Just because they will swivel on the kingpin or mounting screw does not mean they will track well if the bolsters are clamped together too tight to allow a little rocking motion. You can try backing the mounting screws out a quarter turn or so and trying them to see if they track better. You may need to SLIGHTLY ream out the hole in the truck bolster.
While lying on its back, check to see if anything on the underside of the car is being rubbed by the wheel flanges. I have very few Atlas cars but have found that to be a common problem with some of the Walthers and P2K cars.
With the truck removed from the car, check the side to side play of the axle within the side frames. There should be a little end to end play. If not, you need to ream the trucks out for sure. Spin the wheels while holding the truck in your hand. Do they spin freely? If not, a little reaming and lube may be in order.
You will probably get a lot of different ideas and suggestions from this post. Keep an open mind and try them all. Most importantly, be happy in your work.
Charlie
Questions: Does the car derail when you push it through the switch by itself, or as part of a train? Is the switch part of an "S" curve, as in a crossover? Is the car coupled to another long car that pulls it sideways as it passes through the switch?
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
steemtrayn Questions: Does the car derail when you push it through the switch by itself, or as part of a train? Is the switch part of an "S" curve, as in a crossover? Is the car coupled to another long car that pulls it sideways as it passes through the switch?
Dave,
It's the car and this happens on numerous Atlas #6 switches. this doesn't happen to any other car on my layout or any other brand of cars. I'll ream out the trucks, as I've checked out most of what Charlie mentioned above. A little frustrating, to say the least..
Neal
nealknowsAtlas HO Center beam cars
Russell
Russell,
These cars were bought within the past 3 years. I would need to check the run numbers to be sure. I doubt I could send them back. Still need to do the additional maintenance checks mentioned above.
Look at the distance between the end of the car and the mounting screw and compare it to a regular fifty foot car. The trucks on the center beam car are probably farther from the end than on a regular car. The ends of these cars swing out on switches farther than other cars and pull them off the track because the couplers do not have enough sideways swing to follow the car ahead of it. There are some passenger car body mount coupler assemblies that allow the coupler to have more swing sideways to follow the cars ahead of them. I don't know who makes them but it is worth a try.
If I read the OP correctly, he has several of these Atlas center-beam flats and this derailment problem afflicts all of them. This would indeed support the idea of a warpage or basic design flaw common to all. Veteran modelers might recall that the old Athearn B&O quad hopper was derailment prone due to some inherent issues with the design of the car.
I wonder if the cars might also be underweight for their length. Is there an Adair Shops replacement weight for these cars that might help?
And sometimes there is just some cussed interaction between a car and the particular make of turnout. Let's not totally ignore the possible role of the turnouts.
Does a single isolated car, if shoved by hand and sent rolling through the problematic turnouts, derail? That would seem to eliminate coupler swing issues if it does. If it doesn't - if the derailment issues only exist if the cars are coupled to something else, then I'd focus on coupler swing and some issue perhaps with the wheels and trucks as well. For example does what it is coupled to make a difference?
But let's assume a single isolated car, coupled to nothing else and sent rolling by hand through the turnout, derails.
Does it still derail if there is a heavy (temporary) weight on the car?
Does it still derail if you temporarily swap out the trucks for a totally different type/make?
Does it still derail over a different type or make of turnout? For example if it rolls nicely through a more challenging tighter turnout such as an Atlas snap switch, then I think we've found our problem - the interaction of car and turnout make.
Dave Nelson
Also check the weight of them Neil, They are a large car but not much to them.
You might find they obey better with a load on them and some additional weight.
Johnboy out.................
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
As the above poster pointed out, weight may be a big factor in reliable operation. Someone on TrainOrders used a digital scale and reported they were only 2 oz.!!! IIRC, thats less than half of the recommended NMRA weight for a car of that length. Possibly about 1/3rd recommended weight!
nealknows Russell, These cars were bought within the past 3 years. I would need to check the run numbers to be sure. I doubt I could send them back. Still need to do the additional maintenance checks mentioned above. Neal
Last 3 years? I was just checking Atlas's website and it appears the last run was in July 2010; thats nearly 6 years ago. Check here:
http://www.atlasrr.com/hoproducts.htm
And here:
http://www.atlasrr.com/newho.htm
Only runs listed on past products are 2009 and 2010. I couldn't find any runs in the newer product listings which covers around 2012 up to the present, but maybe I missed it?
What I recall is that Atlas was planning a 3rd run of the 73' Centerbeam and then ended up canceling that run due to the high rate of quality issues or damaged models getting to the consumer. There were both quality issues at assembly, including warped parts or badly assembled parts and/or cars getting severely damaged in shipping - a packaging problem. A discussion on TrainOrders:
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,2128858
Back in 2010 when they first came out, a lot of people were reporting issues with the Atlas Centerbeams (way too new for me as many of these were built in the 1990's, some as late as 1997/98 and I'm a mid-1980's guy and earlier.
That said, if you could get ahold of these models undamaged and assembled well, they were beautifully detailed cars.
nealknowsI'll ream out the trucks, as I've checked out most of what Charlie mentioned above.
I echo the add weight recommendation. If they are as underweight as stated in an earlier reply, no amount of adjustment is going to prevent them from derailing.
You might look into replacing the Atlas split coupler with a Kadee #5 or #148.
Do you have a video camera or a cell phone with one? Try making a video of the cars derailing on the turnout. You may find this revealing (sometimes they eye misses things that the camera sees).
Are these your only 89' cars? Are there curves within 7-8" of your turnouts? Even though you have #6s, you can still have a S curve that is causing your de-railment, that would not de-rail shorter cars.
BMMECNYC Are these your only 89' cars? Are there curves within 7-8" of your turnouts? Even though you have #6s, you can still have a S curve that is causing your de-railment, that would not de-rail shorter cars.
RioGrande,
Yes, you're correct on the run date. I bought them in 2013/2014. So here's what I did. The car was on a yard track, and I pushed it through the switch and it rolled flawlessly and up the ladder tracks. The car rolled about 4 feet. I will do the following to these cars:
Change the couplers from Kadee #148 to #146 long shaft. Verify weight of each car. Some cars have the Walthers lumber loads on them, others don't. We'll work on adding more weight where needed. If I still have the issue, new trucks will be next. Keep everyone posted.
Thanks for the replies and support!
Those sound like good steps to take. The Accurail couplers are not my favorite and I have enough Atlas rolling stock that it will take some time to replace all of mine. I'm not sure you can blame rolling or derailing issues on the couplers unless those long cars are hitting S-curves and they don't have enough swing. Do they have swing bolsters underneath similar to what Walthers has on their longer cars?
If the Atlas 73' centerbeams are as light as I've read (I don't own any since they are too modern for me) then adding weigh is probably #1 priority, and then if issues persist, replace the trucks with ExactRail or Athearn Genesis #2.
I am running two of mine now they have medium scale head Kadee's and no loads.
Update to the truck issue on the freight cars. I changed out the Kadee 148's to 146. Cars still had issues. Changed the wheels on the cars; still the same issue. Changed the trucks & wheels to Walthers Proto 200 trucks-no issues! Ran thru the areas in question both pulling and shoving thru the switches. Now I need to order a few more pair of Walthers trucks.
An unexpected but I am sure gratifying resolution to your particular issue with these cars. I guess sometimes certain parts just don't play together well even if they come from the same source.
nealknows Update to the truck issue on the freight cars. I changed out the Kadee 148's to 146. Cars still had issues. Changed the wheels on the cars; still the same issue. Changed the trucks & wheels to Walthers Proto 200 trucks-no issues! Ran thru the areas in question both pulling and shoving thru the switches. Now I need to order a few more pair of Walthers trucks. Neal
I never expected couplers to be at issue for derailing, although it's always a best practice to replace the plastic couplers with metal KD's.
Generally I've always thought of Atlas trucks to be very good quality, but for whatever reason they appeared to interfere with reliable operation in this case - the long and light centerbeam may be finicky however; glad you got them operating well now. Adding loads may help with tracking as well as appearance unless you plan on running empty - which may require more ingenuity for hiding weight. ER used metal parts in their 63' Centerbeams to give them more weight as empty (Prototype first built circa 1977).