happy new year to all. I have an older proto 2000 what seems to skip on the track. I think it's a cracked gear and I have a wrecked proto gp 20 and some athearn gp9s some old sd40s can I use their gears? Also can you see the crack in the gear? rambo1..
You should be able to see the crack once gear lube is removed...If You can't..it will be the one that You can turn the wheels/axle's freely in the gear. All the engines You mentioned, the gear's should fit. As long as the axle shaft is the same diameter and it is a twelve (12) tooth gear. If You would like to get replacements, (which would be the wisest choice) Athearn #ATH 60024 gear axle's will fit, they come six in a pkg.
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH60024
Take Care!
Frank
You know the routine - buy some from Athearn and problem solved. If you use gears out of a P2K GP20, you may end up having to replace those too so might as well do it right and get them replaced properly once and for all. BTW, I have 10 P2K GP30's I'm going to need to do the same thing also.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Here's my 2 shillings worth. Buy the Athearn gears and replace all of the original gears..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
We all know about this now 20 year old problem, but I would like to repeat a few simple facts - Life Like gave away tens of thousands of repalcement gears to fix these locos, Walthers still sells the repalcement gears, and I have never known a Life Like "replacement" to fail. I have considerable experiance with this since I personally own over 50 Life Like produced diesels with the effected two axle trucks.
All of which have Life Like replacement gears in them.
There is nothing wrong with using Athearn gears, bu the readily available Proto replacements hold up fine........ In fact, my remaining old Athearn locos that came with the iron wheels, now have replacement Proto gears - how ironic.....
Sheldon
would my local hobbystore carry these parts?
Walthers got in a huge supply of replacement wheelsets for the early P2K EMDs last year but they seem to have already sold out of them
https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-584408
My local hobby shop had boxes full to sell. Hopefully yours might too.
Dave Nelson
Those are more than double the price of the Athearn gears - of course they do include the wheels and bearings, the Athearn parts are just the gears.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rambo1 would my local hobbystore carry these parts?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-4-PROTO-2000-COMPLETE-DRIVE-ASSEMBLY-BL-FA-GP-7-9-18-20-30-DIESEL-ENGINES-/111844284422?hash=item1a0a705806:g:bFQAAOSwstxVLuhK
zstripe You should be able to see the crack once gear lube is removed...If You can't..it will be the one that You can turn the wheels/axle's freely in the gear. All the engines You mentioned, the gear's should fit. As long as the axle shaft is the same diameter and it is a twelve (12) tooth gear. If You would like to get replacements, (which would be the wisest choice) Athearn #ATH 60024 gear axle's will fit, they come six in a pkg. http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH60024 Take Care! Frank
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xathearn+60024.TRS0&_nkw=athearn+60024&_sacat=0
Rich
Alton Junction
I take no issue with the less expensive route of using the Athearn gears, I have salvaged a number Proto wheels and bearings into additional axle sets myself.
My point is simply that Life Like did fix the problem, did provide more than fair warranty coverage, and now, 20 years later, Walthers is still servicing the product with replacement parts. Try getting service like that on a car, or a computer, or a washing machine.......
I keep a nice supply on hand, you never know when you will find a nice deal on some more "new old stock" Proto diesels - which you know will need axles. And I'm still waiting for a replacement - Athearn or Proto - to break.....
I've procured a number of new (unused) or like new LifeLike P2K diesels on EBay with the plan to convert them to DCC. Do recongnize that all are not alike in terms of gear teeth.
I got a E6 (which had at least a few cracked gears) that were of different teeth number than the commonly used Athearn gears. The Walthers guy said the 6-axle diesels didn't tend to have the problem, but mine sure did. With the gear removed you could see the axial crack when twisting it and shining a flashlight into the axle tube. I tried the Athearn gears (knowing the different number of teeth would affect top speed, but they did not work right for me. The Walters guy said they just would not mesh right. Those I "fixed" by taking replacements from replacement front trucks that Walthers happened to have (they did not have those gears at the time). I'm not sure if NWSL has replacments depending on the type but it's worth a call if no other option on teeth numbers not of the Athearn type.
Included in my buys are several LL P2Ks where the Athearn gears are fine, including the GP30. I've ensured I have at least a half dozen of those on hand. If one gear is bad on an old loco and the Athearns are right for it, I replace them all while I'm in there.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
In the past, I have sold some of my used Proto 2000 diesels on eBay. But, in each instance, I had replaced the cracked gears and I said so in the description. Too often, I see eBay auctions of used locos by 3rd parties, not the original owners. Those auctions are best avoided since the seller knows little to nothing about the history of the loco.
Just count the teeth on the axle.....you do that by marking one of the teeth with a marker, then go either clockwise/counter clockwise direction and start counting the tooth next to the one You marked, ending up counting the one You marked. Most all older Athearn and others had a 12 to 1 gear ratio....most newer engines have a 14 to 1 gear ratio...slower top end speed, but a better puller. A 14 tooth gear Will not work....too tight, gears will not mesh properly. It works on the same principle as a Auto or Truck,,,,A higher gear ratio at the rear end will give you a slower top end speed, but a faster reving engine at max rpm and better puller. The lower gear ratio at max rpm will give you a faster top end speed, but not a strong puller. Been there...done that for yrs. on My race cars and My own semi's.
It is always best to use New axle gears when replacing them....getting the old one off..you risk breaking it or it will not be tight enough on the new axle and why take the time to do it....if you have to do it again!!
richhotrain In the past, I have sold some of my used Proto 2000 diesels on eBay. But, in each instance, I had replaced the cracked gears and I said so in the description. Too often, I see eBay auctions of used locos by 3rd parties, not the original owners. Those auctions are best avoided since the seller knows little to nothing about the history of the loco. Rich
Why? We are not talking about major surgery or major expense here - $8 to $16 and ten minutes fixes the problem.......
If someone is selling an undecorated GP7 for $49 and might need those gears, I'm all in......
But I only buy stuff that appears "new in the box", not interested in "already been played with".
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain In the past, I have sold some of my used Proto 2000 diesels on eBay. But, in each instance, I had replaced the cracked gears and I said so in the description. Too often, I see eBay auctions of used locos by 3rd parties, not the original owners. Those auctions are best avoided since the seller knows little to nothing about the history of the loco. Rich Why? We are not talking about major surgery or major expense here - $8 to $16 and ten minutes fixes the problem....... If someone is selling an undecorated GP7 for $49 and might need those gears, I'm all in...... But I only buy stuff that appears "new in the box", not interested in "already been played with". Sheldon
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain In the past, I have sold some of my used Proto 2000 diesels on eBay. But, in each instance, I had replaced the cracked gears and I said so in the description. Too often, I see eBay auctions of used locos by 3rd parties, not the original owners. Those auctions are best avoided since the seller knows little to nothing about the history of the loco. Rich Why? We are not talking about major surgery or major expense here - $8 to $16 and ten minutes fixes the problem....... If someone is selling an undecorated GP7 for $49 and might need those gears, I'm all in...... But I only buy stuff that appears "new in the box", not interested in "already been played with". Sheldon I didn't mean to limit my comments to cracked gears when I brought up the issue of 3rd party sellers. If used model railroad equipment, particularly locos, is being sold by someone other than the original owner, I shy away from it because the seller cannot attest to its reliability. Cracked gears is just one example. Rich
I didn't mean to limit my comments to cracked gears when I brought up the issue of 3rd party sellers. If used model railroad equipment, particularly locos, is being sold by someone other than the original owner, I shy away from it because the seller cannot attest to its reliability. Cracked gears is just one example.
OK, I understand now and agree. For me, I'm only interested in "new old stock", unbuilt kits, stuff obviously never out of the box except for a test run and a photo for ebay, etc, be it private sellers or shops. I buy unbuilt kits from as far back as the 50's and 60's all the time, but models that clearly have been on someones layout - almost never.
I have never bought a used loco on eBay and probably never will. However, I do on occasion sell used locos, and, IMHO, the buyers always get a good deal, great pricing and excellent condition, no damage or needed repairs whatsoever.
Another problem with older P2K locomotives, ironically particularly acute if the engine is "new in box," is that the lubricant gells and then hardens into a very hard goop. Some guys have burned out motors trying to make the thing move - it won't move until that old grease or lubricant is removed entirely and replaced with new plastic compatible lubricant. I know guys who work in the repair department at Walthers and they spend much of their day doing that.
how do they crack or why do they
rambo1 how do they crack or why do they
The steel axle is an interference fit into the plastic gear. The gears were made too small, changes in temperature cause the gear to contract too much, cracking the plastic.
Most of these gears craked siting on store and warehouse shelves, or in unheated basement layout rooms. They did not break from "operation".
The why is simple, a small flaw when manufactured. It may "look" just fine, but, unless the strength is there, and it is solid and correct throughout, it is not fine.
The real question is when....... As in when is this going to surface as an issue..... Not why.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
dknelson Another problem with older P2K locomotives, ironically particularly acute if the engine is "new in box," is that the lubricant gells and then hardens into a very hard goop. Some guys have burned out motors trying to make the thing move - it won't move until that old grease or lubricant is removed entirely and replaced with new plastic compatible lubricant. I know guys who work in the repair department at Walthers and they spend much of their day doing that. Dave Nelson
I just tore down, cleaned and lubricated a LL P2K GP38-2 that had started to make funny noises while running. I was amazed at the amount of sticky goop that had been at one time the factory lubricant. After disassembly and thorough cleaning of the entire drive train followed by sensible lubrication I now have a sweet running loco. A lesson learned.
Joe
If I can get a $100 P2K loco for $40 and then drop in $4 worth of Athearn gears in it, it's a bargain. I don't worry about things like that, I just assume it has original gears and replace them when I take it apart to put a decoder in. Replaced gears or not, the old grease usually needs to be cleaned out anyway, so the bottom of the truck plate is coming off regardless, and it only takes a minute or two to swap the gears. No taking someone else's word for it, no disappointment when it runs perfectly fine in the initial test run and then an hour later, thump-thump-thump as a gear cracks.
That has always been one that gets me, the far better detailed Proto GP7's got for $40 and under (one of mine I got for $20!), while the cruder looking Atlas ones always seem to top $100. I have zero Atlas ones for that reason.
rrinker richhotrain In the past, I have sold some of my used Proto 2000 diesels on eBay. But, in each instance, I had replaced the cracked gears and I said so in the description. Too often, I see eBay auctions of used locos by 3rd parties, not the original owners. Those auctions are best avoided since the seller knows little to nothing about the history of the loco. Rich If I can get a $100 P2K loco for $40 and then drop in $4 worth of Athearn gears in it, it's a bargain. I don't worry about things like that, I just assume it has original gears and replace them when I take it apart to put a decoder in. Replaced gears or not, the old grease usually needs to be cleaned out anyway, so the bottom of the truck plate is coming off regardless, and it only takes a minute or two to swap the gears. No taking someone else's word for it, no disappointment when it runs perfectly fine in the initial test run and then an hour later, thump-thump-thump as a gear cracks. That has always been one that gets me, the far better detailed Proto GP7's got for $40 and under (one of mine I got for $20!), while the cruder looking Atlas ones always seem to top $100. I have zero Atlas ones for that reason. --Randy
Same here, as a modeler of first generation diesels, I will take older run Proto locos over most of the other offerings - My EMD F units are mostly Intermountain and Genesis for similar reasons.
Atlas has a zero loco presence on my layout do to lack of detail, lack of first generation offerings, lack of ready availablity, and higher prices.
But when I see a stack of old Proto boxes at a train show - I'm headed that way......
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut when I see a stack of old Proto boxes at a train show - I'm headed that way...... Sheldon
Me too.. I found a P2K SCL GP38-2 for $45.00 at a show.. I already had the Athearn gears. I bought a P2K SCL GP9 off E-Bay for $55.00 and it already had new gears.Runs smooth and quiet.
I dont mean to hijack this thread but I see its a couple of years old so I hope its okay.
I recently purchased a Proto 2000 GP7 phaseII on eBay and I'm curious if anyone has had a problem with theirs running really sluggish? I have other Proto 2000 locomotives (mostly SD7's and 9's) that are fantastic runners, quiet, excellent low speed operation etc. Ive never had a Proto GP unit before but this one is a dog. it was analog when I purchased it and it didn't run that great on DC. I converted it to DCC and it didn't really run any better, the problem being that I have to get it to about speed step 40 before it will start moving. I noticed that one of the flywheels was rubbing against the counterweight, so I adjusted the flywheel location and trimmed some from the counterweight so it wouldn't rub... no noticeable change in performance. I removed and inspected all of the drive gears looking for cracks or breaks, cleaned and lubed them, put it back together, no dice, still was sluggish. next I replaced the motor with a motor from a spare SD unit that I use for parts and it still has issues. Next I tested it with a different DCC decoder, you guessed it, still the same problem which is really confusing seeing as I have basically replaced or inspected and cleaned the entire drive train and electronics. I've started thinking about giving up on it as a lemon and getting another one but I don't want to spend the money if this is a chronic problem for the Proto 2000' GP's. If anyone has had a similar experience or if you just have an idea of something I've missed or that I may want to try I'd be interested in hearing them.thanks, -Paul
Interesting that this thread got recessitated today. I was running my e6 that I got second hand not too long ago. Got a bit of a thump. Looks like I have hairline crack in a couple of gears. I replaced some in a BL2 before with the Athearn gears. It sounds like there may be different ones in the e6- does anyone know what is the proper one to use? Thanks Jim
drgwcs It sounds like there may be different ones in the e6- does anyone know what is the proper one to use?
Hi, Jim
These should fix you up if yours are the earlier trucks with the separate journal box:
https://www.walthers.com/replacement-geared-diesel-wheelsets-fits-early-proto-2000-r-e6-7-8-9-pkg-3
I believe A-Line and/or NWSL has replacement gears, too. Walthers changed the gearing in one of their E unit revisions after they bought Life-Like.
The E units used an 11 tooth gear and the Geeps used a 12 tooth.
IMG_0128_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
Thanks so much for the help- I will tear it down and get a better look. I wonder if there is an Athearn equivalent on the earlier gear Thanks Jim