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Upgrading a Tyco Plymouth CR-4 Switcher (plus off topic crane talk at end)

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Upgrading a Tyco Plymouth CR-4 Switcher (plus off topic crane talk at end)
Posted by Bernd on Tuesday, December 15, 2015 1:12 PM

Recently a fellow model railroader asked if it was possible to to DCC a Plymouth CR-4. You remember what a CR-4 Plymouth switcher is right? Tyco was the company that put it out on the market.

This is what it looks like.

He suggested using a super magnet to replace the one that comes with the motor. I told him it might not work. I had a suggestion. Replace the motor with a can motor. The follwoing shows how I did that.

This is the dissasembled model.

First remove the magnet by grinding out the rivet.

Next grind out the rivets holding the motor together with the bottom plate.

Remove the worms, bushings and commutator/wire armature.

Next I drilled and tapped the holes to hold the brass bushing straps using 0-80 scrrews. Turned a pulley with a V groove for the drive belt. Also ground relieve slots for the belt in the frame.

The motor is from a reduction drive. I used the one plate and a piece of brass to make a motor mount. Also a pulley was made and Loctited to the shaft.

A couple of pieces of octangon stock was used to make stnadoffs for the motor mount.

Test fit to make sure it all works out.

A piece of PC board is used to hold the wheels wipers. The wipers are made from .010" phospher bronze wire. The belt has also been added.

And the finished product.

I did this up-grade in three days. First time I ever started something and actually finished it, well alomost.

Bernd

 

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Posted by JoeinPA on Tuesday, December 15, 2015 1:33 PM

Nicely done Bernd. How does it run?

Joe

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, December 15, 2015 2:52 PM

 Hmm, I don't remember that one. Looks like the same drive they used in the 4-wheel trolley cars.

                      --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by Bernd on Tuesday, December 15, 2015 7:28 PM

JoeinPA

Nicely done Bernd. How does it run?

Joe

 
Thanks for the kind words.
 
Here's the video. Judge for youself. The engine is run at two voltages, 4 volts and 6 volts. The motor is a 6 volt motor.
 
 
Bernd

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Posted by Bernd on Tuesday, December 15, 2015 7:30 PM

rrinker

 Hmm, I don't remember that one. Looks like the same drive they used in the 4-wheel trolley cars.

                      --Randy

 

Hi Randy. The drive was used in many of Tycos engines that's why it looks familar.

Bernd

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, December 15, 2015 8:34 PM

The drive was first used by Tyco/Mantua in their "F9A".  Which looked exactly like an Athearn F7A.  Oops.  At first, anyway, they only made an A.  I don't know if they ever did a B.

The F9A came with either one or two power trucks.  Since the power trucks didn't take up much room in the body, you could put upwards of a pound of lead in.  Maybe more.  And with its traction tires, it was a wallpaper puller.

The next loco was a low nose GP20.  With a scale width body. 

And then the coolest of the batch:  A C430.  It was the impression on me of that loco that "forced" me to pick up one of the new Bowser C-430's.

 

And, of course, there's this little switcher and, I guess, a trolley car--I never saw that one.

 

If someone ever felt compelled to do an updated model of this streamlined looking loco, I'd buy one.  I did just pick up the BLI Plymouth switcher--it's pretty darn nice.  Double darn, even.

The real one is actually a CR-4.  Here's a photo of one:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ed

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Posted by JoeinPA on Tuesday, December 15, 2015 9:16 PM

Nice smooth drive and quiet too. That belt drive eliminates a lot of gear noise doesn't it? It's a cute little engine.

Joe

 

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Posted by Southgate on Thursday, December 17, 2015 12:03 AM

You take an archeological find like that, make a smooth runner out of it with 4 wheel pick up, both axles driven.  For todays manufacturers building such should be a snap. And yet if modelers want "critters" of this size, it's up to them to devise or modify drives. I don't get that.

Great work!

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, December 17, 2015 7:04 AM

 There are several. Athearn/Roundhouse did the EMD Model 40, BLI has a new Plymouth. For more modern fans, BLI has done Trackmobiles, and Overland did them in brass.

                      --Randy


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Posted by Bernd on Thursday, December 17, 2015 7:59 AM

JoeinPA

Nice smooth drive and quiet too. That belt drive eliminates a lot of gear noise doesn't it? It's a cute little engine.

Joe

 

Yes that belt drive is smooth and quite. The Britts have discovered that quite a while ago. That's were the inspiration for the drive came from. Hollywood Foundry uses the same kind of drives. Gives better control of top speed since you can make custom pulleys to get the correct speed. Not so with gearing. Could be done but a bit harder to do.

Bernd

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Posted by Bernd on Thursday, December 17, 2015 8:02 AM

Southgate

 For todays manufacturers building such should be a snap. And yet if modelers want "critters" of this size, it's up to them to devise or modify drives. I don't get that.

Great work!

 
I get it. It gives guys like me something to do. It's the challenge that I like in my modeling.
 
Thanks for the kind comment.
 
Bernd

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Posted by Bernd on Thursday, December 17, 2015 8:04 AM

rrinker

 There are several. Athearn/Roundhouse did the EMD Model 40, BLI has a new Plymouth. For more modern fans, BLI has done Trackmobiles, and Overland did them in brass.

                      --Randy


 
Have a couple of Roundhouse/Athearn ones. They run great and are very quite.
 
 
Bernd

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Posted by Southgate on Thursday, December 17, 2015 8:21 AM

Oops. I forgot about the Model 40, and had never seen one run.Embarrassed What's it weigh in at, do you know?

Speaking of weight, harbor freight has these little digital scales that are perfect for this kinda stuff. If ya don't already have one.

Anyway! Your approach here looks to have potential for a number of applications. 

 

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Posted by Bernd on Thursday, December 17, 2015 12:13 PM

Southgate

Oops. I forgot about the Model 40, and had never seen one run.Embarrassed What's it weigh in at, do you know?

The little guy weighs in at a wopping 5.0oz.

 I did a complete rebuild of the Athearn Hustler drive train. I wrote it up on the Rail Line Forums under mid-size models. Search with the term Hustler and my name. You'll get a complete write up of some of my miss-adventures in model engine mods.

Here's a picture of the Cary shell on what's left of the Athearn Hustler frame.

Here's the modified drive train. I used parts from a Hobbytown drive.

 

And a video of it running. It had a ticking noise in one direction, but it eventually went away.

Enjoy.

Bernd

 

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Posted by Southgate on Thursday, December 17, 2015 3:54 PM

That's cool. You're not gonna sneak up on anyone with it, but it's better than the rubber band version.

I took a different approach to the Hustler, but since I posted it here a while back I'll link ya to my Photobucket on it.

http://s343.photobucket.com/user/Southgate_08/library/Taming%20the%20HUSTLER?sort=3&page=1

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Posted by Bernd on Thursday, December 17, 2015 6:37 PM

Southgate

That's cool. You're not gonna sneak up on anyone with it, but it's better than the rubber band version.

I took a different approach to the Hustler, but since I posted it here a while back I'll link ya to my Photobucket on it.

http://s343.photobucket.com/user/Southgate_08/library/Taming%20the%20HUSTLER?sort=3&page=1

 
That runs pretty darn good. Nice job.
 
I see you have machine tools also. Yes
 
Bernd

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, December 17, 2015 7:48 PM

Bernd:

The DR-4  CR-4 switcher runs very nicely. Quiet too!

I'm curious to know what sort of machine equipment you used to make the pulley?

Dave

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, December 17, 2015 8:57 PM

Please!  Guys!

 

The model under discussion is a Plymouth CR-4.  NOT a DR-4.

Repeat:  NOT a DR-4.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by Bernd on Thursday, December 17, 2015 9:04 PM

hon30critter

Bernd:

The DR-4 switcher runs very nicely. Quiet too!

I'm curious to know what sort of machine equipment you used to make the pulley?

Dave

 

Thanks Dave. I have a Sherline 4400 long bed lathe. Nice machine for work like this. Also have a CNC Sherline mill and a Grizzly mini-mill.

 

Here's the set up for the pulleys. The belts are square so a 90° groove needs to be cut. I ground an 1/8" HSS tool to 90°. I plunge cut so the belt is even with OD.

 

 

Then I use an 1/8" HSS tool bit ground for cutoff. The cutting end is about 1/32" wide.

 

Nice to have small tools like this to make custom parts.

Bernd

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Posted by Bernd on Thursday, December 17, 2015 9:07 PM

7j43k

Please!  Guys!

 

The model under discussion is a Plymouth CR-4.  NOT a DR-4.

Repeat:  NOT a DR-4.

  

Ed

 It took this long to spot that error?

Heading changed.

Bernd

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, December 17, 2015 9:24 PM

Bernd:

Nice set-up! I can only dream of owning such luxuries. For now, I am stuck with my Dremel, cordless drill, files and a hack saw ('hack' being a very appropriate description given the lack of accuracy of the cuts it makes!).

I have said to myself several times that I should at least buy a small drill press.

Thanks

Dave

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Posted by Southgate on Friday, December 18, 2015 2:20 AM

Thanks, Bernd. 

Oh, I forgot to mention, I got a kick out of your movie credits!

Yes. It's nice having the machines. Sherline 4400 lathe, and 2000 mill. The 2000 allows for far larger pieces than model RRing might ever call for.

Dave, Harbor freight has chunky little drill presses for less than a moderate priced locomotive. I got mine for about $40 a few years ago on one of their regular sales and it gets used a great deal. And it doubles for a small arbor press when needed. Check it out.

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Posted by Bernd on Friday, December 18, 2015 8:31 AM

hon30critter

Bernd:

Nice set-up! I can only dream of owning such luxuries. For now, I am stuck with my Dremel, cordless drill, files and a hack saw ('hack' being a very appropriate description given the lack of accuracy of the cuts it makes!).

I have said to myself several times that I should at least buy a small drill press.

Thanks

Dave

 
Thanks Dave. I saved my pennies up. I was very interested in Home Shop Machining. The tools have been collected over the years. I almost got into live steam. Have the castings to build a three truck Shay. Not going to happen. I've pared down my hobbies to just model railroading and specific scales. Not enough time to do it all.
 
Bernd

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Posted by Bernd on Friday, December 18, 2015 8:38 AM

Southgate

Thanks, Bernd. 

Oh, I forgot to mention, I got a kick out of your movie credits!

A freind of mine did that for me. He has one I can't show in public, not that it's not viewable, it's just what he copied from the internet and applied it to me.

Yes. It's nice having the machines. Sherline 4400 lathe, and 2000 mill. The 2000 allows for far larger pieces than model RRing might ever call for.

I have run out of room several times doing HO scale and even on a few TT projects I wished I had a bigger machine. As they always say, You can machine little parts on a big machine, but you can't machine big parts on a little machine. Huh?

Bernd

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Posted by Bernd on Friday, December 18, 2015 4:23 PM

This is Version 2.0. A different motor and mounting method.

 

A while ago a fellow modeler alerted me to seller on E-bay that had motors I might be interest in. I took a look and sure enough it was something I could use. But for what I had no idea at the time. I ordered a lot of 10.

 

The output shaft revolves at 10rpm at 12 volts. A bit slow. Here's what they look like.

Taking the gearbox apart you get an idea of how a reduction gear drive works. It's almost like a standard transmission without the clutch. I think there are 6 stages of reduction. I removed the first three, plus I had to shorten some of the components in the gearbox to get it back together and work properly.

 

 

Here's one with the three stages removed and reassembled. The one in the back is unmodified.

 

 

The final result of removing the first four stages. I didn't bother with shortening the gearbox cover. The motor is epoxied to a brass motor plate and bolted on with the motor assembly bolt. The rest of the components are from the first version of the mod.

 

 

The pulley on the motor is easier to make and change do to the output shaft being threaded for a 3 X 0.5 mm thread. With this setup I can get it down to a crawl from tie to tie. Top speed probably is in the range or 5 to 10 scale miles per hour. I'm going to have to have a bigger pulley on the motor and a smaller one on the driven shaft. I'll post a vidoe of it running when I get a chance.

Bernd

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Posted by Bernd on Friday, December 18, 2015 8:10 PM

Here's the video of the chassis under power. Left to right at 2 volts. Right to left at 12 volts.

Bernd

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, December 18, 2015 8:22 PM

Bernd

 

 
7j43k

Please!  Guys!

 

The model under discussion is a Plymouth CR-4.  NOT a DR-4.

Repeat:  NOT a DR-4.

  

Ed

 

 It took this long to spot that error?

Heading changed.

Bernd

 

 

Well, no.  I spotted it on the 15th and said so in my post of that day.  I was either too subtle, or my post went unread.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, December 18, 2015 8:32 PM

Southgate:

Thanks for the lead on the Harbor Freight drill presses.

Right now I'm a little hesitant to buy from the US because the exchange rate is terrible and shipping is getting ridiculous too. We have a couple of suppliers here in Canada that have reasonable prices for similar items so I'll have a look here.

Dave

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Posted by Southgate on Friday, December 18, 2015 11:25 PM

Dave, I hadn't noticed you were up north.

 

Bernd...

Would you believe it if I told ya I have an experience so similar to yours it's crazy?    I also happened upon an eBay "lot" of motors and such a little over a year ago. One of my best ebay scores ever. Gearheads, motors, some of which are coreless, and an oddball assortment of useful hardware.

AND! Among the findings was a gearhead setup with this pulley on it. Labeled 22/1, I think it's higher. So I got to wondering about it's possibilities. I turned a smaller pulley and mounted it on an MDC boxcab truck shaft. An O ring quietly transfers rotation to below. Please note no expense was spared in mounting the motor to the truck.  A rubber band was used to cob the motor on for testing purposes...

The slow speed at first is at 2 volts, then I jump it up to 12:

That was supposed to be a video. Try this:

http://s343.photobucket.com/user/Southgate_08/media/Model%20Railroad/PC183026_zpstuqnwjkb.mp4.html

 

As I said the rubber band, in fact the whole setup is for testing. But the idea looks an awful lot like that last one of yours, donut?  It's so slow, if I do anything with it, it will be just to move some cars to and fro on a specific siding, not as a yard switcher. Could do as a shop switcher. Any suggestions?

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, December 18, 2015 11:47 PM

Southgate:

Yup, I'm from the Great White North!! Which, by the way hasn't seen anything that looks like winter at all yet this year, at least not in our area. I may have to cut the lawn again! Last year at this time we had a foot of snow. If it is any consolation, Parry Sound on Georgian Bay is getting hammered tonight. They are expecting 16" of snow. They can have it!!!

Sorry,   Off Topic

I wonder if there is a prototype for the rubber band motor mount!ClownLaugh

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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