non-Pennsy Pacific in HO?!?!

[EL PARRo]

Why is it that no one makes a good, quality r-t-r non-Pennsylvania RR Pacific in HO? Bachmann, Athearn, and MTH (among others) all make Pennsy 4-6-2's, but no one that I know of makes a Pacific of any other RR. I did a little research, and this might surprise some of the manufacturers, but Pennsy wasn't the only RR to own Pacifics! [:0]*gasp*[:0]

All I want is somebody to make a good HO model of a Pacific that isn't Pennsylvania. *cough*unionpacific*cough* Is that too much to ask for?

[Anonymous]

The B&O Heavy Pacific may do the job nicely. Or any USRA Pacific.

Consider that the PRR Pacific had the power to stay with the mighty NYC 4-6-4's... awesome.

I too would like a plain pacific that is not IHC.

[mikebonellisr]

Does'nt Athern make a Pacific?...What do you consider 'good"?
I would put in my reservation right now if BLI,Bachman,or LL Heritage series were to produce one.

[EL PARRo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mikebonellisr

Does'nt Athern make a Pacific?...What do you consider 'good"?

The Athearn Genesis Pacific is also Pennsy. I also consider Genesis to be on the low end of "good," if that makes any sense.

[Anonymous]

why dont you just buy a pensy pacific and paint it?

[EL PARRo]

The main reason is that I would want a Union Pacific Pacific, and the Pennsy Pacifics just don't look like something UP would own. I wouldn't mind something more generic that is letterd for several roads, though, but the Pennsy's are just too specific.

[Virginian]

The Athearn Pacific is NOT a Pennsy prototype model, and I would consider it on the high end of very good. You can use the USRA tender that comes with it or swap it for something more prototypical to your road as I did quite easily because as delivered it does not incorporate power pick up. I thought that would make it and the Athearn Mikes hesitate and lurch, but it hasn't, and therefore I haven't gotten around to adding power pick-up yet. It is the only new non-Pennsy available, as far as I know. As new Rivarossis are readily available as well. And, the brass ones are profilic enough you can usually find a fairly good one of those for a reasonable price also.

[Anonymous]

I agree how many sound equiped Pennsy pacifics do we need?

I would like to see a BLI B&M P-2 or even a P-4a. Even a generic pacific with customer applied detail parts would be fine.

FYI-The Athearn Genesis USRA have defective drives on them.

[fec153]

I have a IHC F.E.C. {with wrong headlight} And a Beautiful B&O by Mantua.
Look at ads in MRR, there are plenty of 4-6-2's around.
Flip

[Fergmiester]

I have two IHC Pacifics, with a little TLC these could really come alive.

[Virginian]

SOME of the Athearns did develop cracked drive gears. (Mine did and I fixed it) Athearn (Horizon) is getting replacement wheelsets made and you can get one from them as soon as they get them in. (same thing with the Mikes) NWSL has the gear in stock for less than $10. If you have not looked at one of these locomotives, and seen how well they run, don't turn your nose up. To me, the number one thing with a steam engine is a smooth running mechanism, and this is one of the smoothest.
The IHC also has a good mechanism, and you can add detail to bring it up to par in the appearance department if you like.
But, having said all that, I totally agree, it's a wonder someone hasn't come out with a new Pacific besides a Pennsy. That's a totally non-generic engine. Another USRA like the Athearn or a Southern Ps4 would sell a bunch I bet. If Bachmann would release a Spectrum model as good as their 4-8-2 heavy, and with their pricing, it would look like a ready made hit. I am betting it's BLI when it does happen. They are the only ones that seem to be trying to come out with stuff people want as fast as thay can in the steam realm.

[BRAKIE]

QUOTE: Originally posted by EL PARRo

QUOTE: Originally posted by mikebonellisr

Does'nt Athern make a Pacific?...What do you consider 'good"?

The Athearn Genesis Pacific is also Pennsy. I also consider Genesis to be on the low end of "good," if that makes any sense.

Beg to differ here..The Athearn/Genesis Pacific is NOT even close to a PRR K4 Pacific.You see the K4 was a Pennsy design engine while the Athearn is of USRA design.

[tomwatkins]

Not being a big fan of the Athearn light mikes, I chose to pass on their pacifics. The IHC light pacific can be detailed into a good looking model, but the low speed performance won't equal the best of the newer plastic steam. Perhaps regearing it would help in that. I'd really like to see Spectrum, BLI or P2K do an "all up to current standards" model of either a USRA light or heavy pacific. I think the demand would be good for either.

The Southern Ps-4 was actually neither a "true" USRA light or heavy, incorporating features from both, along with some features that were unique to the Southern. To get really close, a low drivered (73") heavy pacific would be the best starting point, but it would take a lot of work. I'd love to see BLI do an accurate Ps-4, but I'm not going to hold my breath on it.
Have Fun,
Tom Watkins

[Anonymous]

I agree that more different Pacifics need to be done, but unfortunatly for the majority of modelers, the K4 comes to mind, thanks to Lionel including them in so many starter sets, even if it wasnt quite the right wheel arrangement. A BLI southern pacific would be outstanding, but a good diecast boiler like the K4 they are doing is a must, I hate traction tires and plastic steamers just dont pull well.

[EL PARRo]

*looks at pg. 23 of Jan. '05 MR*

[:(]*cries*[:(]

When will it end!

[PennsyHoosier]

Looks at pg. 23 of Jan. 05, MR and is very happy. [^]

Sorry, bro, the old K4s was a really, really great and beautiful engine--none better to me. But I do agree: that should not preclude the production of other Pacifics.

[tpatrick]

Bowser makes a NYC K-11 and also a USRA light Pacific. Both are all metal and should be good pullers. I believe they offer super detail kits for these locos too. I would give them a serious look.

[PennsyHoosier]

Good advice, Tpatrick

[PennsyHoosier]

I might add, that I have resisted--for days--saying that I can't imagine why someone wouldn't be satisfied only with a Pennsy K4. But that's just me, I guess...

[twhite]

Well, Lawrence, I'd be happy with a K-4, but my Denver and Rio Grande Western California Extension has already 'borrowed' four Pennsy locos due to power shortages demanded by WWII traffic, and I don't know how the execs at Pennsy would view my coming at them for more power. Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing a light or heavy USRA 4-6-2 from BLI or P2K. Preferably a light, since I could do a little kitbashing and turn it into a reasonable facsimile of a Rio Grande P-45. But hey--those K4's are sure handsome little devils, aren't they?
Tom

[Anonymous]

There are many Rivarossi's still floating around they were perhaps the best 4-6-2"s before BLI and Lifelike started producing there premier lines.They are still pretty cheap and with a 10.00 can motor and dcc electronics,they can be a pretty good fill in untill some of the big boys get the hint. The k4 was perhaps the most popular and powerfull of all the pacific's built so it is easy to see why all the current manf.have produced them.I think it has something to do with market share.aka your wallet.

[Anonymous]

I totally agree, El Parro. Not to insult any Pennsy fans, but the K4 is THE UGLYEST, MOST AROGANT, OVER PUBLICIZED locomotive ever made (protoype and models). True Athearn did make a USRA 4-6-2 a few years ago, but those *cough*suck*cough*. Now Bachmann, BLI, and MTH all offer the same locomotive that only ran on ONE railroad. P2K would do a nice job with a USRA 4-6-2, IMO.

[Mark300]

I too am a little fustrated at the limited selection of non-Pennsy Pacific's in HO.

But...It's always bothered me that modelling manufacturer's glom onto the easiest to market engines and miss some real marketing opportunities....especially in the case of this topic.

Gee anyone familiar with steam knows there can be endless variations on the same theme like.....
Alco, Baldwin or Lima
Heavy or Light (USRA or NonUSRA)
Headlight mounted high or centered on the bolier
Diameter of the main drivers
Feedwater tank over the front (like the Erie's K class or the CP)
Fancy 'doo-dads' on the cylinders or elsewhere (like the WM's K class)
Location of the bell
Different styled tenders
Different paint jobs....

I could go on and on but I think if I were a manufacturer, I would develop a really reliable running mechanism and then see how many plastic casting variations I could manage and determine how many ways to market that engine. Passenger operations especially for tight radius curves, fit well for a six drivered engine.

In this day and age, it would make shopping and enjoying this hobby alot more fun (and easier).

A good topic!

Mark

[PennsyHoosier]

Jonathon,

I'm not insulted--you are certainly entitled to your wrong opinion. [:D][;)]

You don't like the K4s. I LOVE them. Guess that's why the Romans came up with the phrase de gustibus non est disputandum.

[PennsyHoosier]

Tom, I'm with you, friend.

[Anonymous]

I like the k4's i don't like that no one is making other pacific's but I imagine with time that will change.It must of been a very good locomotive for the Penn.or they wouldn't of built so many of them.To me it looks very powerfull as represented in the pics by PennsyHoosier.I bought the spectrum a while ago I really enjoyed watching it run but could not get the kind of performance pulling the several long grades that I have So it went by the way of e-bay.I plan on buying the one from BLI just waiting for the reviews to see how well it runs and pulls.I think it is great that k4 lovers have so many models to choose from,and with time the rest of us hopefully will have as many different Pacific's as there were variations to this great loco.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PennsyHoosier

Tom, I'm with you, friend.

Not bad, but it could be improved by having a Pyle headlight with visor mounted slightly below center on the (silvered) smokebox front and the bell mounted at the top of the smokebox front, the pilot replaced by an SP style corrugated steel pilot, a Worthington BL feedwater heater mounted on the fireman's side and an SP 120C-8 Vanderbilt tender with the words "Southern Pacific" in 12" letters on the tender.

A skyline casing would be probably be a case of gilding the lily. [(-D]

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2487.JPG

Now THAT's a Pacific.

Andre

[PennsyHoosier]

Andre,

Very good one! But I still love my Pennsys!

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PennsyHoosier

Andre,

Very good one! But I still love my Pennsys!

In one of the 1957 issues of MR, there was a fellow named Malcolm Vordenbaum who wrote an article on creating non-Pennsy engines out of what was then the locomotive offerings of Penn-Line. Penn-Line (now a part of Bowser) had the most complete line of steam locomotives at the time (all Pennsy of course). One thing Malcolm did was to grind off the Belpaire firebox.

I swear that one of these days I'm going to take a Bowser or Spectrum K-4 and detail it for the SP but leave some of its Pennsy characteristics (cab and Belpaire firebox) intact. Then you'll find out how much prettier the K-4 COULD have looked.[;)]

Andre

[railman]

Don't get me wrong guys, we all love the PRR to some extent, but just once in a while, WE WANT SOMETHING ELSE!