non-Pennsy Pacific in HO?!?!

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jesionowski

Excuse me but the SP, UP, and C&NW were very specific types of Pacific locomotives and an manufacturer would not do those as a specific plastic molding. The Athearn USRA pacific was found on many railroads and copies were made into the thrifties for many railroads.

Sorry Rick, but the modern trend in plastic steam IS to crank out road-specific engines, not generics. Look at BLI: out of the 15 steam engines they've cranked out over the past 2-1/2 years, only two are generics. Life Like has made four steamers and is making a fifth, and only two were generic. Even Bachmann Spectrum is making road-specific engines with their heavy 4-8-2, 2-6-6-2 and 2-10-0 models.

Besides, the UP, SP and C&NW are VERY popular roads with modelers (three of the top ten, in fact). No manufacturer would have a problem selling out a run or three of any of their engines in plastic!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jesionowski

Excuse me but the SP, UP, and C&NW were very specific types of Pacific locomotives and an manufacturer would not do those as a specific plastic molding. The Athearn USRA pacific was found on many railroads and copies were made into the thrifties for many railroads.

The Western Maryland, Union Pacific, and Santa Fe, for example, all had various classes of Consolidation. But they all have a certain overall look to them. Thats what the Spectrum 2-8-0 is. It looks like a consolidation of large consolidations.
Some classes of UP, SP, NP have a similar look. There not so distinct that a generic composite model couldn't be made.

[Anonymous]

Excuse me but the SP, UP, and C&NW were very specific types of Pacific locomotives and an manufacturer would not do those as a specific plastic molding. The Athearn USRA pacific was found on many railroads and copies were made into the thrifties for many railroads.

Other Pacifics available were Athearn in the 1950's made the B&M P-4, you might still find these around although they were dropped from the line in the mid 60's and the early ones were rubberband drive.

Mantua also makes a Pacific and the Bowser/Cary boiler can be used on them for a USRA Heavy Pacific. As is it is almost a dead ringer for a B&O Pacific and with minor modifications can be used for a MP Pacific.

Life-Like used to have a Pacific and I remember an article making one into an NP version.

There are plenty of Pacifics available you just have to do a little work to adapt them to your prototype.

By the way I have 4 brass PRR K4s and one K2 Pacific[:D]

Rick

[Anonymous]

CUSTOM BUILT STEAM IS OFTEN WAY TO GO IF YOU WON'T DO THE WORK YOURSELF. CHECK W/ HISTORIC SOCIETIES FOR LOCO CONTEST BUILDERS. ALSO, CHECK OUT www.eddystonelocomotives.com BUILDER HAS BEEN REAL STEAM LOCO MECHANIC, CAN PROVIDE ODD AXLE SPACING, DRIVER SIZES.

[Virginian]

This desire for a specific prototype is, aside from pure collectors, why the brass steam locomotive market has been around for decades, and will likely continue. My advice, if you really want something, get it. If a plastic or cast model becomes available, you can sell the brass.
I have a Spectrum Class J and a BLI Class J on order. I also have a brass J that I thoroughly enjoyed for 25 years before either of these existed. And I ain't gonna sell it either. Not ever, if I can help it.

[Anonymous]

Ray,
Guess I should have specified the K-5B like #9240.
The Bowser K-11 Pacific would be a good starting point for the 9227.
The K-5B had 79" drivers. A bit large to fit the Bowser K-11 frame.
IHC and Rivarossi stretched the wheelbases to allow for the larger flanges and allows enough room for the larger drivers with "normal" flanges.
I had also thought of using a Hudson chassis as a starting point.

I really think kit-bashing is the way to go if you want a specific steam locomotive, but I realize not everyone is into that.
There are people who will custom build a locomotive for you.
Give them your business.
Why wait?
How much would you pay for a custom built locomotive?
Ray

[Anonymous]

We need a generic Pacific that ressembles UP's, SP's, NP's, and CNW. Just like the Spectrum 2-8-0. Looks like several other large 2-8-0 and is decorated for multiple roads.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ray Marinaccio

Being a Pennsy fan I love the K4, but wanted to have a P&LE Pacific
I haven't found anything close to any of the different classes the P&LE ran.

Ray,

Looking at the three P&LE Pacific photos on the Fallen Flags website, you cab use the Bowser K-11 Pacific as a starting point for representational models of all three:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ple/ple-lmtd-r.jpg
P&LE 9227: pretty much the stock Bowser K-11 kit.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ple/ple-s9240n.jpg
P&LE 9240: Bowser K-11, modified USRA cab, Delta trailing truck, Elesco feedwater heater, and the old Athearn curved-side tender (which is a B&A proto, so it's close).

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ple/ple-s9246.jpg
P&LE 9946. This one is tough, but I'd use the K-11 chassis, the Cary USRA heavy boiler, a USRA cab, Delta trailing truck, and the old Athearn tender.

Yes, this is a lot of work, but is the only non-brass way to get most steamers we need. Start mixing and matching steam kits and parts.

QUOTE:
In my opinion , a manufacturer could make a good profit by selling a few base locomotives and sell detail kits as add ons to detail it for specific roads and classes.

In my opinion, we'll never see this in our lifetimes (and I'm only 34). No one wants to build an ATHEARN boxcar these days; what makes you think some manufacturer will want to loose their shirt by producing a dead-end steam conversion kit? Bowser and Precision SCale make most of the parts we need already to convert steamers into our own prototypes. If you want to start steam kitbashing, just start ordering individual parts, like we've been doing for the past 75 years!

[Anonymous]

Being a Pennsy fan I love the K4, but wanted to have a P&LE Pacific
I haven't found anything close to any of the different classes the P&LE ran.
While doing research I noticed so many variations as Mark mentioned. Even on the same roads.
In my opinion , a manufacturer could make a good profit by selling a few base locomotives and sell detail kits as add ons to detail it for specific roads and classes.
I have a couple of early IHC Pacifics I remotored and regeared and a Rivarossi Pacific.
I also added electrical pickups on the tenders of the IHC locos and they do run great.
The biggest problem I have (detail wise) is that they have the Baker valve gear.
Not to many roads used Pacifics with the Baker valve gear other than the Erie.
Once I find a suitable replacement valve gear the rest of the detail changes are minor.

[PennsyHoosier]

I agree, the streamlining on the K4s actually obscured the beauty of the engine.

Man, I am sure glad there are so many manufacturers that make Pennsy K4s. I'm having ice cream with my cake tonight.[:D]

[espeefoamer]

We need a Southern Pacific P8 pacific with vanderbilt tender[:)].

[espeefoamer]

The Pennsy did have one K4 with skyline casing. I like the K4 generally, but the PRR streamlining job on a few K4s was really UGLY[:(!]!

[espeefoamer]

The Pennsy did have one K4 with skyline casing. I like the K4 generally, but the PRR streamlining job on a few K4s was really UGLY[:(!]!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones

Pennsy's K-4 is one of the sweetest looking Pacifics. Second only to the Southern Pacific P-10. [tup]

Make that second and third. Southern's Ps4 is far and away the best proportioned, most attractive Pacific ever. [:D]

[rrinker]

All this complaining about the K4, well, why do they have to make EVERYTHING in Santa Fe? HUH? How about a DIFFERENT road for once!

(sorry Andy S... <g>)

--Randy

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PennsyHoosier

LOL Ron. I understand. We PRR types have our cake and get to eat it too. Now if Andre would take the time to kitbash a K4 according to his description above, I might be swayed from my current infatuation (running on 20 years now). But until then...

Sorry, but it'll be a while before I can get around to that. There are other priorities.

Andre

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones

Pennsy's K-4 is one of the sweetest looking Pacifics. Second only to the Southern Pacific P-10. [tup]

The operative phrase is DISTANT second.

Andre

[AggroJones]

Pennsy's K-4 is one of the sweetest looking Pacifics. Second only to the Southern Pacific P-10. [tup]

[PennsyHoosier]

LOL Ron. I understand. We PRR types have our cake and get to eat it too. Now if Andre would take the time to kitbash a K4 according to his description above, I might be swayed from my current infatuation (running on 20 years now). But until then...

[railman]

Don't get me wrong guys, we all love the PRR to some extent, but just once in a while, WE WANT SOMETHING ELSE!

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PennsyHoosier

Andre,

Very good one! But I still love my Pennsys!

In one of the 1957 issues of MR, there was a fellow named Malcolm Vordenbaum who wrote an article on creating non-Pennsy engines out of what was then the locomotive offerings of Penn-Line. Penn-Line (now a part of Bowser) had the most complete line of steam locomotives at the time (all Pennsy of course). One thing Malcolm did was to grind off the Belpaire firebox.

I swear that one of these days I'm going to take a Bowser or Spectrum K-4 and detail it for the SP but leave some of its Pennsy characteristics (cab and Belpaire firebox) intact. Then you'll find out how much prettier the K-4 COULD have looked.[;)]

Andre

[PennsyHoosier]

Andre,

Very good one! But I still love my Pennsys!

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PennsyHoosier

Tom, I'm with you, friend.

Not bad, but it could be improved by having a Pyle headlight with visor mounted slightly below center on the (silvered) smokebox front and the bell mounted at the top of the smokebox front, the pilot replaced by an SP style corrugated steel pilot, a Worthington BL feedwater heater mounted on the fireman's side and an SP 120C-8 Vanderbilt tender with the words "Southern Pacific" in 12" letters on the tender.

A skyline casing would be probably be a case of gilding the lily. [(-D]

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2487.JPG

Now THAT's a Pacific.

Andre

[Anonymous]

I like the k4's i don't like that no one is making other pacific's but I imagine with time that will change.It must of been a very good locomotive for the Penn.or they wouldn't of built so many of them.To me it looks very powerfull as represented in the pics by PennsyHoosier.I bought the spectrum a while ago I really enjoyed watching it run but could not get the kind of performance pulling the several long grades that I have So it went by the way of e-bay.I plan on buying the one from BLI just waiting for the reviews to see how well it runs and pulls.I think it is great that k4 lovers have so many models to choose from,and with time the rest of us hopefully will have as many different Pacific's as there were variations to this great loco.

[PennsyHoosier]

Tom, I'm with you, friend.

[PennsyHoosier]

Jonathon,

I'm not insulted--you are certainly entitled to your wrong opinion. [:D][;)]

You don't like the K4s. I LOVE them. Guess that's why the Romans came up with the phrase de gustibus non est disputandum.

[Mark300]

I too am a little fustrated at the limited selection of non-Pennsy Pacific's in HO.

But...It's always bothered me that modelling manufacturer's glom onto the easiest to market engines and miss some real marketing opportunities....especially in the case of this topic.

Gee anyone familiar with steam knows there can be endless variations on the same theme like.....
Alco, Baldwin or Lima
Heavy or Light (USRA or NonUSRA)
Headlight mounted high or centered on the bolier
Diameter of the main drivers
Feedwater tank over the front (like the Erie's K class or the CP)
Fancy 'doo-dads' on the cylinders or elsewhere (like the WM's K class)
Location of the bell
Different styled tenders
Different paint jobs....

I could go on and on but I think if I were a manufacturer, I would develop a really reliable running mechanism and then see how many plastic casting variations I could manage and determine how many ways to market that engine. Passenger operations especially for tight radius curves, fit well for a six drivered engine.

In this day and age, it would make shopping and enjoying this hobby alot more fun (and easier).

A good topic!

Mark

[Anonymous]

I totally agree, El Parro. Not to insult any Pennsy fans, but the K4 is THE UGLYEST, MOST AROGANT, OVER PUBLICIZED locomotive ever made (protoype and models). True Athearn did make a USRA 4-6-2 a few years ago, but those *cough*suck*cough*. Now Bachmann, BLI, and MTH all offer the same locomotive that only ran on ONE railroad. P2K would do a nice job with a USRA 4-6-2, IMO.

[Anonymous]

There are many Rivarossi's still floating around they were perhaps the best 4-6-2"s before BLI and Lifelike started producing there premier lines.They are still pretty cheap and with a 10.00 can motor and dcc electronics,they can be a pretty good fill in untill some of the big boys get the hint. The k4 was perhaps the most popular and powerfull of all the pacific's built so it is easy to see why all the current manf.have produced them.I think it has something to do with market share.aka your wallet.